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[hey_it's_that_dog]

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

What precise outcome would you consider to be evidence of your original claim, that the game is not balanced and you can win with Urien as a result?

If you win, that alone doesn't prove your point, as you may be more skilled than your opponent. If you lose, your point is disproven. Basically, you cannot win your argument unless you can demonstrate dominance with Urien over an equally skilled opponent. As there is no way to establish who is equally skilled based on a few matches, this whole affair is pointless except for us to enjoy seeing you lose.

 

[LordKasual]

Inspired by this rant from Chris G. SFV has rightfully been called out since launch on GAF for Capcom's mistakes. No casual hooks, busted servers, survival mode bullshit, rootkit, etc. Those have been discussed to death and by this point it's accepted that SFV's launch was a disaster and the game isn't a good product. However, a common and repeating defense for the game in almost every thread was how 'the gameplay is amazing' or 'its the best playing street fighter, possibly ever'. And my question is - why?

None of the professional players seem to outright love the game. At best people say it's fun, but time and time again I keep hearing how the gameplay feels even worse than season 1 now, or how its more random now. I've heard people say the game doesn't allow for quick reactions due to input lag, making punishing or blocking certain things nigh impossible. I've heard complaints about excessive 50/50s or setplay. I've heard that certain characters like Laura or Balrog are too good, or some like FANG or Nash too bad. I've heard that frame traps are too good, and reversals are too bad.

Each and every time there's a patch to gameplay, with a wave of nerfs / buffs, you'll find some high-level player that complains that the game was ruined. SFV is a good game.

One problem is that capcom made too many big shifts towards inviting casuals in, while approaching it from a hardcore standpoint. The GAMEPLAY of SFV is absolutely geared more in the direction of casuals, but the game itself was devoid of anything casuals would enjoy. (Challenge mode, Arcade mode, Story mode, ect)

I'd take a huge grain of salt from anyone complaining about Laura or Balrog at this point. Those two characters were considered trash tier last season. And Laura in particular isn't doing anything different in Season 2. People are just reacting to the fact that she became more dangerous because you have to spend resource to DP now.

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

I would never, ever accept a MM or high-stakes match over netplay. Terrible idea. Terrible idea. Way too much room for excuses, both valid and invalid.

LOL

What overheads?

She's got one crossup. There's no way to make divekick ambiguous like SF4. No hard knockdown to set that stuff up.

Sounds more like player ignorance than Cammy dominance.

If you said her normals are way better, then, yeah.

Cammy is broken as fuck.

She was broken in S1 and she's broken in S2 too.

Her walk speed is ridiculous, her buttons are ridiculous, her AA is amazing, she basically gets in for free (less so now with divekick block advantage nerfed, but it can still be spaced to be plus, which is aggravating), shimmies for free, punishes for free, has a shitload of + on block moves and she hurts.

 

[Kadey]

SFIV is a lot more fun. But fun doesn't mean better and vice versa. SFV is the more honest and better game but it just isn't as fun in it's current incarnation.

 

[Skilletor]

Cammy is broken as fuck.

She was broken in S1 and she's broken in S2 too.

Her walk speed is ridiculous, her buttons are ridiculous, her AA is amazing, she basically gets in for free (less so now with divekick block advantage nerfed, but it can still be spaced to be plus, which is aggravating), shimmies for free, punishes for free, has a shitload of + on block moves and she hurts.

Broken? Nah. Good, definitely.

But I was just responding to a poster who said her crossups and overheads are worse than SF4. Patently false.

 

[vulva]

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

And you call me embarrassing lol

 

[cackhyena]

SFIV is a lot more fun. But fun doesn't mean better and vice versa. SFV is the more honest and better game but it just isn't as fun in it's current incarnation.

I don't disagree with this.

Why are you guys even giving ZeroTheShadow the time of day?

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

Are you going to stream on Twitch? Please record these matches and post the video results to this thread. I need this! Also everyone use mics. I want to hear the salt in the loser's voice!

 

[Carlius]

even with all its faults, its one of the best fighting games and will be one of the best fighting games and will dominate the pro scene. so in short, NO. great fucking gameplay.

 

[Shadoken]

Haha lol , I think OP is loving the level of toxicity in this thread. I thought Gaf was generally better than most gaming forums.

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

This post is literally Aids , worse than V-trigger.

IDK what you are going to prove if you beat someone. Since its
A) Online
B) Played at a scrub level

If you consider offline pro matches, Urien,Rog,or w/e are Not just winning every tourney for free. If you wanna look at balance at a more basic Online level , then Capcom already showed the matchup chart based on online play and it looks like Bison/Urien wins roughly 55% of their matches. If the balance is soooo terrible shouldnt it be atleast close to 70% or higher? Either way the game doesnt seem Soo bad that you can just pick one character and win for free. While its not the best its far from what you paint it out to be.

Shit just got real in here!.

More like Shitposting just got real. Coz according to some people here you can just pick a top tier and make yourself all the way to Diamond and then Master. Ez gg , Nemo and Haitani gotta hold dat.

 

[Shadoken]

I love this. Dude acting like his Bronze Urien will destroy anybody regardless of skill level... Amazing.

Somebody body him with Alex or FANG please. I want to see his excuses.

He will blame it on Jump ins being too OP , or AAs being too OP , Frame Traps being too OP or Blocking being too OP. Take your pick.

 

[jerry1594]

Game is swampy summer ass and paying 100 bucks to stay up to date and have terrible qol is sad!

 

[sephi22]

Capcom already showed the matchup chart based on online play and it looks like Bison/Urien wins roughly 55% of their matches. If the balance is soooo terrible shouldnt it be atleast close to 70% or higher?

Why should it be close to 70℅? 55℅ is pretty high. To compare with another game, Dota's strongest heroes in competitive or pubs have 55-60℅ win rates in tournaments or ranked matches respectively.

Also I'm assuming this chart considers all skill levels, including bronze and below, which probably skews the stats since bronze players are so many. IMO the higher your cutoff in terms of rank the better judge of matchups you will get. I assume Urien and Rog would have higher winrate when better players are involved, and even Gouki would.

 

[Dartastic]

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

I guess I'm out then, because I live in Portland, OR. Someone please beat this dude's ass and stream it so we can all laugh at him together.

 

[Shadoken]

Why should it be close to 70℅? 55℅ is pretty high. To compare with another game, Dota's strongest heroes in competitive or pubs have 55-60℅ win rates in tournaments or ranked matches respectively.

I never mentioned anything about balancing the game based on that chart. It was meant as a reply to ZeroTheShadows post , since he is playing Online and not at a pro level. The point was if a character is so broken Online as he claims that he can beat anyone regardless of skill level. That chart would be A LOT worse.

Also I'm assuming this chart considers all skill levels, including bronze and below, which probably skews the stats since bronze players are so many. IMO the higher your cutoff in terms of rank the better judge of matchups you will get. I assume Urien and Rog would have higher winrate when better players are involved, and even Gouki would.

V League has this data based on the top ranking players alone. It is more or less similar.
https://v-league.pro/tierslist

Also Gouki aint that great. And characters like Bison and sim are up there only because it is Online.

 

[sephi22]

I see. Fair enough.

 

[bababoooey]

i get so happy seeing a street fighter thread on the front page.

add me if you guys wanna run some games: cfn-bababoooey

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

Sooo... Where are the videos? Did ZeroTheShadow win or lose?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Sooo... Where are the videos? Did ZeroTheShadow win or lose?

I think the facts that he will "arrange" the game when he finds internet access and that he won't give out his CFN kind of suggests we can't even trust that he will actually be the one playing, if this ever does happen at all.

 

[Kashiwaba]

Why is capcom so quite about the servers issues and pretending like everyone is good, the servers right now are as bad as they were during launch week. So many connection losts and data not received errors

 

[Omnistalgic]

He didn't break the toy. Kidrobot figures come apart really easy.

It's not really a temper tantrum when Capcom literally went out of their way to take away a unique playstyle because they didn't envision the character being played in such a way. It screams reaction, especially when, at the end of the year,: 1. Infil wasn't the best Charlie. 2. Charlie wasn't winning as much.

Totally feels like the balance changes were decided on after/around EVO.



I'll play. I'm giving SF5 a break for awhile. Tired of the game fighting me when all I want to do is play.

Sure man. Also check out the OT. Seems like a lot of new people are picking up the game in the wake of the Steam release.



I don't know how you got this reading of all from his words. He specifically said he didn't speak up immediately after CC or the patch to avoid this kind of reaction.

Think of it from his perspective. You pioneer this emergent playstyle and do really well in your favorite company's game, and they completely remove the way you like to play. Not only does it sting on a personal level, but on a macro level it sets a precedent for Capcom's design philosophy for the game. "Play our game our way, or else". lol

It's easy to point and laugh at him being salty, but think about it. What incentive is there to be that good and develop characters in out of the box ways if these kind of changes occur as a result of that effort? It discourages character loyalty and innovation for short term "playing the patch" mindsets. Personally I think that's a terrible climate for fighting games and I think similar experiences and feelings to what Infiltration expresses here can be observed from players at all levels. (In this very thread you have people stating how they're losing interest due to their playstyle getting hit hard)

ok....cool I'll pick up GG this weekend for PS4..

PSN is Omnicloud

and yeah, I said my part on S2 balance, still very much in harmony with Infiltration. And I've adjusted to the shoto changes, it still feels like a slap in the face of me putting a full year into training. Capcom has to try a bit more to reward player dedication.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

Oh yeah, that pesky overhead!

??

Sounds like he's saying WHIRLY BIRD or POLLY BIG BIRD! Or something stupid before he does his critical art and starts laughing like a moron while floating in the air.

 

[Celcius]

It's the most fun I've had with a Street Fighter game.

Don't really care what pros think.

First post nails it.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

Relevant?

https://pvplive.net/c/over-60-percent-of-sfv-players-stuck-in-bronze

States that over 60% of players are in bronze. Reaching silver means you're better than 86.2% of all players.

Weird stats though.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Sooo... Where are the videos? Did ZeroTheShadow win or lose?

I'm still waiting on a PM back from him.

 

[lucebuce12]

Sounds like he's saying WHIRLY BIRD or POLLY BIG BIRD! Or something stupid before he does his critical art and starts laughing like a moron while floating in the air.

From the voice actor

@Bjorklund__ Hi! @Pharaohmone had the same question. F.A.N.G says "I'll turn into a bird!" during his critical art.

https://twitter.com/JesseMerlin/status/733402967487877120

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

From the voice actor



https://twitter.com/JesseMerlin/status/733402967487877120

I don't believe it. He's saying IT"S ALL A BIG BIRD! or POLLY BIG BIRD! Like how Ryu keeps saying YAK YAK YAK A BURR KICK! ALL YOU CAN! or ADOUKEN!

They need to speak more clearly. The Super Nintendo at least could be blamed on inferior console ports.

 

[qcf x2]

He will blame it on Jump ins being too OP , or AAs being too OP , Frame Traps being too OP or Blocking being too OP. Take your pick.

But you and at least one other poster are already making excuses for him potentially winning, lol. Either you wanna see a put up or shut up match or you don't.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

But you and at least one other poster are already making excuses for him potentially winning, lol. Either you wanna see a put up or shut up match or you don't.

Put the blame where it belongs. The Eternal Ganga. He's giving everyone a dose of that losing streak. I know every time I play that stage, Dhalsim turns just a bit weaker and his limbs don't stretch quite as far. That Ganga is giving me frame lag.

 

[Melubas]

Personally, from someone who played 3s and 4 for ages, Street Fighter 5 made me quit playing the series, mainly due to the heavily simplified gameplay. In an effort to hook the casual players in Capcom went haywire and removed almost anything hard and interesting except 1-hit confirms. They added a 3 frame buffer to everything, virtually trivializing every combo in the game and removing any layer of strategy from it. They removed close proximity normals for whatever reason. They shortened hitboxes on normals so that characters that play a reactive footsie game with range are practically non-existent. They added extra input lag that makes it harder to react to and whiffpunish stuff, this in combination with the stubby normals makes it a slugfest where players take turns frametrapping each other. All this comes together to create an aggressive game where any attempt to play any other way is punished.

I'll paste an entry I made in a different thread:

I've played fighting games all my life, played the shit out of every iteration of Street Fighter 4 and was one of the top players in my country for the games lifespan, and I uninstalled SF5 after maybe twenty hours. I did this due to a number of reasons, some of them being the streamlining of characters where every single one practically has the same gameplan, the 3 frame execution buffer which to me ruins the game since it severely oversimplifies things, the stubby normals that makes most exchanges take place with the characters right next to each other, and the input lag.

I'd like to talk about the aversion to execution barriers that many people in this thread seem to have, and the notion that skill should only exist as mind games and not on a technical level. I call bullshit. The biggest part of fighting games are about outsmarting your opponent, true, but execution plays an important role too. Take for example a move that is -4 on block. Without an input buffer the risk of throwing this move out is not that great since punishing it requires 1 frame timing, and unless someone is looking for it punishing it on reaction is hard. With an input buffer punishing this suddenly becomes super easy, essentially making every move that is -3 or -4 on block an automatic punish. It removes depth from the game.

The same goes for difficult combos. I see nothing wrong with a player having to choose between the easier option that gives less damage/positioning, or the harder one that could close out the round but if missed leads to a massive punish. It teaches players to know when to take risks, and to know when to step back and choose the safer option. If you whiff a DP in front of me I can choose to do the hard 1f-link FADC combo to put you in the corner, giving me a bigger chance to end the round. I can also go for a damaging, easy combo since I don't want to risk getting punished or failing and barely hitting you for any damage at all. Calculated risks on more levels is not a bad thing. Once again making links and combos easy removes the depth of having to choose.

Most characters in games that have harder execution doesn't require harder execution combos. It's there for those that put in the extra time and effort to learn it. If you want to be a boxer you need to hit the gym, if you want to be good at online shooters you need to practice your aiming. If you want to be the good at fighting games you need to hit training mode and learn the technicalities.

 

[petran79]

Broken? Nah. Good, definitely.

But I was just responding to a poster who said her crossups and overheads are worse than SF4. Patently false.

No way Cannon Strike and Hooligan Combination were as floaty in IV. They can launch from anywhere at any angle.
As if ground dominance wasnt enough, with this I thought Cammy had also the air control of Ibuki.

Though I used Juri who was neutered when compared to IV, missing her divekick. SFIV had Focus Attack absorbs at least. Here one feels helpless.

Or that Laura jab. Lost in 10 seconds. Where did that come from suddenly..
Maybe game deceivingly has a lower entry point but all those patches and balance changes made it even more difficult in the long run. If pros struggle, imagine casuals. Dont see how online focus would benefit them. It'd make things even more confusing. At least SF4 had an arcade scene so this allowed few more months of stability.

As if SFV was still in beta

 

[Interficium]

Sooo... Where are the videos? Did ZeroTheShadow win or lose?

He does the whole "So I guess nobody here is willing to fight me huh?!?" then ghost when people ask for his CFN song and dance pretty routinely. Just ignore it.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Only two people have actually PMed me. Working out the details for playing them this weekend. Need to get PS+ as well. I'll post more details when it's final.

 

[hertog]

I really like sfv, only problem I've had with it that outside Birdie no other characters really clicked with me. But that's because in season 1 he was the best and maybe only defensive character. In season 2 he joins the meaty oki gang. They nerfed his long ranged normals and buffed his grab attacks by putting your opponent a lot closer to Birdie.

But since I always played this game at a slower defensive pace,I had a lot of trouble picking up a more offensive character.
I should really try to play a Necalli or Balrog, just to get more of a "feel" of the offensive nature of this game.

 

[jeemer]

hey guys play me my character is broken i will win. are you guys scared to play me? wait a sec while i duck all requests to post my CFN so no one sees my replays. also i don't have internet access right now to play. also i need to pay for ps+. also i'm not available at the moment.

someone please record it when you take this dude's face off.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

I think the facts that he will "arrange" the game when he finds internet access and that he won't give out his CFN kind of suggests we can't even trust that he will actually be the one playing, if this ever does happen at all.

Their PSN username is, or was, "Sakata_Gintoki", so perhaps somebody on PS4 can look up their CFN username using rival search?

 

[Fat4all]

it's not a bad game at all :/

I'm a fairly average Rashid player and I've been grinding at it since launch. Love it.

 

[Marvel]

I love playing V it is damn good. But I enjoy watching pro's and yt personalities play IV a hell of a lot more than watching V.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Only two people have actually PMed me. Working out the details for playing them this weekend. Need to get PS+ as well. I'll post more details when it's final.

Good shit man, gl.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

So we are trying to set up a stream on Sunday. Will keep you updated.

 

[lucebuce12]

There is a surprising amount of effort going into this.

But I kinda like it.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Make us proud, Zero!

 

[meerak]

Also I'm assuming this chart considers all skill levels, including bronze and below, which probably skews the stats since bronze players are so many. IMO the higher your cutoff in terms of rank the better judge of matchups you will get. I assume Urien and Rog would have higher winrate when better players are involved, and even Gouki would.

Keep in mind balance changes are for the benefit of the entire player base, the majority of which are low level. It is a balance in and of itself, to keep low and high level players in mind.

If you balanced a game based only on high level matchups you'd have a huge problem on your hands.

Most all the complaints sound very selfish to me. When I try to think about how I would balance this entire cast across all player levels - like any sane dev would - my head just hurts.

And I play Vega, not exactly a doomtrain.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Keep in mind balance changes are for the benefit of the entire player base, the majority of which are low level. It is a balance in and of itself, to keep low and high level players in mind.

If you balanced a game based only on high level matchups you'd have a huge problem on your hands.

Most all the complaints sound very selfish to me. When I try to think about how I would balance this entire cast across all player levels - like any sane dev would - my head just hurts.

And I play Vega, not exactly a doomtrain.

Balancing around low level play doesn't ever seem worthwhile. How many of them even notice changes?

and I'm not sure that's what's happening here anyways. The universal DP change is probably one of the few changes that would have an impact on lower level play, and not for the better. (Shoutouts to Day 1 Akuma's and their disappearing lifebars)

 

[KingBroly]

Why is capcom so quite about the servers issues and pretending like everyone is good, the servers right now are as bad as they were during launch week. So many connection losts and data not received errors

It's not like the game needs more bad press or anything.

It's going to suck when they announce 'the next DLC character is coming in March' though.

 

[MrCarter]

It's not like the game needs more bad press or anything.

It's going to suck when they announce 'the next DLC character is coming in March' though.

That is hyperbole. Servers can be rough at times but nowhere near as bad as launch - which was a given considering how overloaded they were. As for the DLC, since CPT starts in March, it wouldn't be surprising if we get the 2nd character (Akuma was he 1st) then.

 

[yurinka]

Relevant?

https://pvplive.net/c/over-60-percent-of-sfv-players-stuck-in-bronze

States that over 60% of players are in bronze. Reaching silver means you're better than 86.2% of all players.

Weird stats though.

Info from the trophies:

• Only 25.9% of the PS4 players played 10 online matches.
• Only 27% of the PS4 players won a ranked match.
• Only 16.9% of the PS4 players won 10 ranked mathes.
• 69.8% of the PS4 players completed the story mode.

To focus on online multiplayer, top players and eSports doesn't make sense, because it means Capcom is ignoring the majority of the SF fanbase.

If Capcom wants to make money instead of wasting time with the crying pro players, they need to release more casual-friendly single player content instead.

 

[Dartastic]

So we are trying to set up a stream on Sunday. Will keep you updated.

Did this guy get bopped yet?

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

nah. He mayweathered/marned it and tried to hand pick then rig the bracket.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Not like this, Zero 😢

 

[nachum00]

3 and 4 are just so much more fun for me to play. I sunk hundreds of hours into 4 and it just makes me sad that the games pretty much completely dead, and the only Street Fighter people play is one that I hate in almost every way possible.


Street Fighters the only fighting game series I care for though. So I still play 5 a bit, begrudgingly.