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[univbee]

All I'm saying Is that just like the advancement into 1080p was exciting to see, the natural progression is 4k which looks ridiculously awesome....how can you not be interested in that? I mean I'm asking genuinely, and a person doesn't need to be a videophile to be stoked about the possibility of 4k.

4k's definitely going to be awesome when it's more viable but it's way too expensive to get into it currently for the vast majority of people when you factor in the fact that tons of people would need new screens (I don't know anyone with a 4K TV yet, myself included, and I bought fucking LaserDiscs back in the day) and it's just not quite there yet no matter how much money you dump into a PC rig (for 4K60 without turning settings down considerably in a lot of cases). Maybe with the next line of Geforce cards, but even then I'm looking at a bare minimum double the price of a PS4 Pro just on that video card (in Canada), and I still only have a 2500K CPU which might not be enough so I'd have to replace everything there and on and on and on.

Meanwhile in Japan the bestselling games are on the 240p 3DS and no one really gives a shit.

 

[Durante]

But that's kind of it, games which are properly PC-exclusive are becoming increasingly scarce.

Are you certain of this, and do you have any objective data to support your claim?

Personally, my subjective impression over the past few years has been (1) that more and more games I'd have never expected to see are getting PC releases.
Tomorrow, I'll get the latest "Tales of" game on PC, basically day-and-date with the console version.
Next month, not one but two Gust games are hitting Steam. (Holy crap! I'm still in disbelief)
The number of Final Fantasy games on Steam 5 years ago was 0. It's now 17.
And (2) that there are in fact more releases again in traditional PC genres, like grand strategy, 4X or traditional CRPGs, with surprisingly many PC exclusives.

Of course, those are just impressions from my perspective, perhaps equally as lacking in objectivity as yours are. However, just looking at the objective third-party data summarized in the picture linked in the point about the library in my previous post (see below), there is also no evidence of a "increasing scarcity" of PC exclusives.

I mean, the advantages of PC are pretty well documented.

• Full control over the performance and graphics tradeoffs you want to make.
  • Prefer image quality over effects? You can do that. Or the other way around.
  • Focus on framerate and input lag rather than pretty images? You get to make that choice, rather than the developer.
  • Shadows really important, but won't give motion blur the time of the day? Go ahead!
• Full control over which input device you want to use, and how you want to use it.
  • Mouse/keyboard, controllers, arcade sticks, specialty devices, or any combination of them.
  • Fully-featured remapping independent of individual games and across all of them.
  • Your expensive flight stick / wheel / whatever from 6 years ago still works and is unlikely to be deprecated by an artificial generation transition.
• Perpetual forward- and backward compatibility.
  • This doesn't just mean that the games you bought will still work in the future, but also that you have access to additional games from 20+ years of storied history.
  • When you get a new GPU, your existing library gets a "HD Remaster" upgrade. Except you don't need to pay for it.
  • A few years on, when you want to replay some particular game, the device you need to do so isn't put away in storage somewhere (this really annoys me with consoles).
• Access to third-party tools and mods which extend the customization and feature-set of games beyond what was envisioned by the original developers.
  • Gameplay changes - hate the weight limit? Feel like the food/drink requirements aren't punishing enough? Enemies are bullet sponges? Change it!
  • Full high quality screenshot and video capture options in everything, without the developer getting a way to prevent that.
  • Graphical enhancements of course, which can range from minor post-processing to major overhauls.
  • Bugfixes being worked on up to a decade after a game's release by dedicated fans.
• A massive variety of options and form factors for your gaming hardware.
  • If you want to go high-end you can get enthusiast-grade equipment and things like 144 Hz monitors.
  • On the other hand, you can also play the vast majority of games on a small and cheap system.
  • If it fits your use case, you even have the option of getting a portable device (laptop) to take your gaming with you.
• Very often, the first platform on which to experience new things in the gaming medium, because it's where most experimentation happens.
  • New genres are generally invented there - most recently MOBAs, sandbox, and survival games.
  • New technology is introduced: e.g. stereo rendering, VR, variable refresh.
  • New distribution methods are explored, such as EA, crowdfunding.
• The largest and most diverse library of games.
  • Some genres which almost don't exist outside the platform -- e.g. grand strategy, management.
  • Lots of high quality exclusives in a variety of genres.
• Significant savings in ongoing gaming costs.
  • Frequent and varied very cheap game bundles.
  • A blooming third party reseller market for cheap game keys (I'm talking about the legitimate market here, e.g. GMG).
  • Free online gaming and features such as ample cloud storage for save games.

If none of that is of sufficient interest to you, then sure, there is no reason to game on PC.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

personnaly I just don't see the value in making the jump to 4k, the cost is too high for what it's worth to me

1080p is already pretty enough for me and resolution is just really low on my list of priority. I'd rather buy $1000 worth of fun games at 1080 than buy a new $1000 TV to play or watch stuff in 4k

That's where I'm at as well. I mean if my TV blew up I'd get a 4K TV to future proof, but I have no incentive to upgrade as someone that's never cared about having top of the line TVs/image quality. I've always just wanted something "good enough" and basically just late adopted midrange models from reputable brands when moving to 720p and eventually 1080p.

Buying a 4K TV would probably put me off of PC gaming a bit though. Part of why I jumped in now is with the 4K rush I figure my 4790k/GTX970 rig will be "good enough" for 1080p gaming for quite a while as devs seem to be chasing 4K more than graphics/IQ stuff at 1080p.

I'll already have a tough decision in a few years between upgrading the PC or getting a PS5 or whatever given that I like Sony exclusives more than PC exclusives and I'm not sure I can justify keeping a Sony Console and PC to go with my Nintendo platform given my gaming time/interst is gradually declining. If the 4K chase at that point makes the PC GPU upgrade race more like it was a few years ago than it is currently, that would be a turn off. I don't want to have to upgrade GPUs more than every 4-5 years to keep running most new releases on mostly high settings (I can live without very high/ultra).

 

[JustSomeone]

Some genres which almost don't exist outside the platform -- e.g. grand strategy,

Grand strategy? Those games where you have to think? No thanks I will stay with my sony and nintendo exclusives.

 

[RuhRo]

I grew up on PC gaming. I love, and in many ways find more immersive, the experience of playing up close to a smaller monitor.

But as an adult I just can't stomach the time investment required to maintain a gaming rig and deal with finicky software settings and tweaking. It's just too much of a time sink, and that's not even accounting for periodic troubleshooting rabbit holes ("Oh, the game's crashing at a certain point. Are you running it on an ATI card? The latest drivers break this particular game there. Change this setting in the INI to turn off a graphical feature for now, does that get it running?" and so on).

Most of my friends aren't familiar with PC gaming, so if I want to play any sort of multiplayer, consoles are the only route. This is especially true since I use couch co-op a great deal, which is an experience almost completely absent from the PC.

And with the greater acceptance of full-fledged PC gameplay on consoles, and the flourishing market for console indie games, I find there's very little you miss out on by avoiding the PC.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

But that's kind of it, games which are properly PC-exclusive are becoming increasingly scarce. Sure there are a lot of games which exist outside of the AAA space and a massive chunk of them are available on console, sometimes even console first. PC-first titles are nowhere near as common as they used to be and they almost never stay that way, getting a console release eventually. Meanwhile the consoles tend to have more "persistent" exclusives, like anything published by Sony (Uncharted, Last of Us, Until Dawn, God of War) isn't coming to PC, also game franchises like Yakuza, Persona.

I'm sorry, but I just don't even know where to begin with this because you're exhibiting the exact sort of mentality right now that I've been taking issue with.

Console 'persistant exclusives' are worth noting as a strength of that platform's library. Uncharted, Last of Us, God of War! No brainer mainstream classics, right? Meanwhile, the swath of entire genres (much less storied franchises) that only exist on PC, and a smattering of games there that exhibit more actual mainstream appeal than AAA shooters, aren't worth considering, and as such, "PC exclusives are becoming increasingly sparce". As though there's not an image floating around this very thread that pretty effortlessly communicates how untrue that actually is. Which is why that unspoken qualifier exists in the first place in these discussions. The PC has a massive library of exclusives, and games in general, that somehow don't get to matter because they aren't a 1:1 match to the handful of AAA action games that get to define and represent the libraries of console platforms.
Uncharted 4 was wonderful. but Civilization 6? I've already put more time into Civ 6 than any of you will put into Uncharted 4. And I'm going to continue playing Civilization 6 until Civilization 7 comes out. And yet, in these sorts of discussions, Uncharted 4 is the kind of game that matters, and Civilization 6 isn't.

 

[Muzicfreq]

But it's a natural progression. I mean there's zero reason for a gamer to not be excited for the possibilities of 4k

I dunno. 1080p is fine for me even in my own room with a 40" screen.
If I could have the choice, 4k resolution or 1080p and crank the quality and use supersampling. I would choose 1080p any day.

Stable frame rate, extremely good visual quality, all the bells and whistles.

23" screen I have to get close to see pixels but at normal sitting distance it is fine as is.
My 40" screen is used when I wanna lie on my bed or sit on the floor in which case I struggle even more to find a pixel.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Ps4 Pro hasn't been all sunshine with 4k either.

http://www.neogaf.com/showthread.php?p=224004405

Actually, a TV firmware update has since fixed the rare issue I was having.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Are you certain of this, and do you have any objective data to support your claim?

Personally, my subjective impression over the past few years has been (1) that more and more games I'd have never expected to see are getting PC releases.
Tomorrow, I'll get the latest "Tales of" game on PC, basically day-and-date with the console version.
Next month, not one but two Gust games are hitting Steam. (Holy crap! I'm still in disbelief)
The number of Final Fantasy games on Steam 5 years ago was 0. It's now 17.
And (2) that there are in fact more releases again in traditional PC genres, like grand strategy, 4X or traditional CRPGs, with surprisingly many PC exclusives.

Of course, those are just impressions from my perspective, perhaps equally as lacking in objectivity as yours are. However, just looking at the objective third-party data summarized in the picture linked in the point about the library in my previous post (see below), there is also no evidence of a "increasing scarcity" of PC exclusives.

I'm sorry, but I just don't even know where to begin with this because you're exhibiting the exact sort of mentality right now that I've been taking issue with.

Console 'persistant exclusives' are worth noting as a strength of that platform's library. Uncharted, Last of Us, God of War! No brainer mainstream classics, right? Meanwhile, the swath of entire genres (much less storied franchises) that only exist on PC, and a smattering of games there that exhibit more actual mainstream appeal than AAA shooters, aren't worth considering, and as such, "PC exclusives are becoming increasingly sparce". As though there's not an image floating around this very thread that pretty effortlessly communicates how untrue that actually is. Which is why that unspoken qualifier exists in the first place in these discussions. The PC has a massive library of exclusives that somehow don't get to matter because of the most arbitrary reasons.

I think the issue is that a lot of people don't like one or the other "types" of exclusives.

The bulk of PC exclusives these days are things like Grand Strategy, 4X, Simulations, RTS, MOBA, CRPGs etc. that aren't of much interest to the mainstream console gamer that's mostly playing cinematic, narrative driven AAA games, sports games, racing games, etc. They're not interested in the more gameplay focused games, especially ones with steep learning curves, and deep, complicated mechanics.

Similarly a lot of PC gamers don't care about the Uncharteds and what nots as they want the deep gameplay mechanics and don't care for cinematic, narrative driven mainstream AAA games.

These aren't arbitrary reasons, it's just that gamers or forums tend to state their opinions in deliberately inflammatory ways as trolling and getting a rise out of people is a huge appeal of forums for a huge chunk of people sadly. So a lot of both sides say "PC has no exclusives" or "Consoles have no exclusives" when they really mean "It has no exclusives that fit my tastes."

I enjoy my gaming PC, but the only exclusives I've enjoyed are stuff like The Stanley Parable and Kentucky Route Zero. I just couldn't get into Civilization, StarCraft, DOTA etc. I mostly play games to veg out, get lost in a virtual world, enjoy the characters, story etc. I'm mentally exhausted after working on research and teaching all day and just don't have it in me to play complex games that require a lot of learning, thinking, strategizing etc.

So it's mostly just a machine to play better looking versions of the AAA multiplats I love, and with better digital purchasing options for things I want to keep rather than buy physical and sell after beating (or just rent from Redbox).

 

[Durante]

This is especially true since I use couch co-op a great deal, which is an experience almost completely absent from the PC.

As someone who spends around 12 hours each weak playing couch coop games, and has been doing that for around 6 years now, I would like to note that this perspective is somewhat outdated.

Here is a list of couch coop games we completed, on PC, in that time period:

27. 08. 2010 - Lord of the Rings The Return of the King
02. 10. 2010 - Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light
11. 07. 2011 - The First Templar
20. 08. 2011 - Dungeon Siege 3
10. 12. 2011 - Renegade Ops
27. 01. 2012 - Jamestown
21. 07. 2012 - Trine
03. 08. 2012 - Dungeon Siege 3 - Treasures of the Sun
04. 08. 2012 - Bennu
10. 08. 2012 - Renegade Ops - Coldstrike
15. 09. 2012 - A Virus named Tom
14. 12. 2012 - Pid
04. 01. 2013 - Critter Crunch
29. 03. 2013 - Capsized
19. 07. 2013 - Bleed
06. 09. 2013 - N 2.0
20. 09. 2013 - Monaco
27. 09. 2013 - Sacred Citadel
08. 12. 2013 - Rayman Legends
13. 12. 2013 - Hammerwatch
27. 12. 2013 - FORCED
24. 01. 2014 - Pixeljunk Monsters Ultimate
28. 03. 2014 - Spelunky
06. 06. 2014 - Child of Light
18. 07. 2014 - Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION
18. 07. 2014 - Octodad: Dadliest Catch
08. 11. 2014 - Defense Grid 2
14. 11. 2014 - Binding of Isaac - Rebirth 
21. 11. 2014 - Never Alone (Kisima Ingitchuna)
13. 12. 2014 - Aqua Kitty - Milk Mine Defender 
27. 02. 2015 - Woodle Tree Adventures
17. 04. 2015 - Dynasty Warriors 8 XL
22. 05. 2015 - ibb & obb
29. 05. 2015 - Phantom Breaker: Battle Grounds
13. 06. 2015 - Crypt of the Necrodancer
03. 07. 2015 - Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris
07. 08. 2015 - Cook, Serve, Delicious!
25. 09. 2015 - Chariot
09. 10. 2015 - Assault Android Cactus
01. 01. 2016 - Tales of Zestiria
23. 01. 2016 - Tales of Zestiria - Alisha's Story
06. 02. 2016 - The Witness
18. 03. 2016 - Nomnom Galaxy
01. 04. 2016 - Towerfall Ascension
22. 04. 2016 - Wyv and Keep
30. 04. 2016 - Broforce
30. 04. 2016 - Ancient Defense
02. 07. 2016 - Salt and Sanctuary
08. 07. 2016 - Pix the Cat
22. 07. 2016 - Straima
09. 12. 2016 - VR The Diner Duo
07. 01. 2016 - Woodle Tree 2: Worlds

Note that this is just the subset of completed games. There are some, particularly STGs, that we played a lot but didn't complete. As well as couch coop games without an explicit "clear" condition, such as Audiosurf. And games we are still in the process of playing, like Trine 2 and N++.

It's still not enough for us to make do with just PC for local coop (Nintendo has some amazing exclusives), but it's getting there

 

[univbee]

Are you certain of this, and do you have any objective data to support your claim?

Personally, my subjective impression over the past few years has been (1) that more and more games I'd have never expected to see are getting PC releases.

Absolutely the availability of games on PC is improving, but what I'm saying is the same is true for the availability of formerly "PC only" games on consoles, which is also improving with games like Wasteland 2, Kerbal Space Program, and Killing Floor 2 to name a few having console releases now.

There are definitely still holdouts which are only on PC (Civilization is a prime example) but I think with how easy publishing on consoles is now, that's becoming far less common than it once was. It's nowhere near on the same level as it was back in, say, the PS2/early PS3 days where multiplats were more the exception, whereas now unless a game gets moneyhatted somehow it's practically guaranteed to come out on PC AND at least one of either PS4 or Xbox One (usually both).

 

[Siege.exe]

Yeah, I'm not enthusiastic about 4K. I've never been super enthusiastic about any of the big resolution transitions, if I don't like the way something looks, showing it to me at a higher resolution isn't going to change anything.

 

[QuantumSquid]

All I'm saying Is that just like the advancement into 1080p was exciting to see, the natural progression is 4k which looks ridiculously awesome....how can you not be interested in that? I mean I'm asking genuinely, and a person doesn't need to be a videophile to be stoked about the possibility of 4k.

Diminishing returns, my friend. The jump from standard def to HD was way more impressive than the jump from HD to 4K.

What is exciting about the possibilities of 4K? What exactly are the possibilities of 4K? It's just more pixels on the screen. For massive televisions, I can see the benefits of 4K since 1080p content probably looks kind of blurry unless you keep a good distance away from the display. But for smaller screens? My 1080p monitor is plenty sharp for me, and for whatever reason my phone has a 1440p screen, which results in a pixel density so high I can't even make out the edges of things anymore.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Trying to play old Steam games like Bloodrayne on Windows 10 taught me that the "perpetual backwards compatibility" is an "in theory" benefit that doesn't always apply. Some old games just won't work correctly even if you jump through all the hoops. Or use emulation, but even that has gaps.

 

[Xion86]

Does anyone use the Corsair lapdog whilst on their couch? Tried it at EGX as my friend who works in Corsair really wanted to show me what it was like. Another option out there for the couch if you really do want the keyboard and mouse instead of a controller:

http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/landing/lapdog

It did feel quite comfortable too. Only downside is wires from your sofa to the 4k Bulldog machine.

Hmmm I don't know if I should get a new PC this year to hook up to a TV (thinking LG E6 OLED) with all my consoles, or a gaming monitor specifically for the PC and consoles separate.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Diminishing returns, my friend. The jump from standard def to HD was way more impressive than the jump from HD to 4K.

What is exciting about the possibilities of 4K? What exactly are the possibilities of 4K? It's just more pixels on the screen. For massive televisions, I can see the benefits of 4K since 1080p content probably looks kind of blurry unless you keep a good distance away from the display. But for smaller screens? My 1080p monitor is plenty sharp for me, and for whatever reason my phone has a 1440p screen, which results in a pixel density so high I can't even make out the edges of things anymore.

I said stuff like this too until I played Rise of the Tomb Raider in 4K on my 50-inch-tv. While playing I just said stuff like "Wow, that's gorgeous!" and "Holy shit!"

 

[univbee]

I'm sorry, but I just don't even know where to begin with this

OK, what other not-available-on-console games have you played since Civ 6 released?

For that matter can you point me to a NeoGAF thread for some? 100% serious, not trying to troll or get a rise out of you, I'm explicitly looking for threads talking about not-on-console games and not finding any. It's entirely possible I'm not aware of a bunch of great exclusive titles, and I would like to learn of these, but again the fact that I'm not aware they exist kind of underlines a big part of the issue.

Good on you for getting good mileage out of Civ6, unfortunately I was never any good at strategy games (I bought the first 5 Civ's) so I skipped it for the time being. Civ6 I'm sure is a good game, and it does matter, but that's one exclusive versus my list of several and I'm not really finding much that's worth noting (though would happily admit to being wrong if I were directed to some).

 

[DragonGirl]

All I'm saying Is that just like the advancement into 1080p was exciting to see, the natural progression is 4k which looks ridiculously awesome....how can you not be interested in that? I mean I'm asking genuinely, and a person doesn't need to be a videophile to be stoked about the possibility of 4k.

Already addressed in my edit but I'll repeat it. Even when looking at a giant TV, I don't see enough of a difference to care about 4K VS regular HD. On my 32 inch set, I'd be pressed to see the difference between that and 720 while actually playing a game as opposed to staring at a comparison image. I don't care much about 30 fps VS 60 FPS for most games either. I'd rather invest in a way to play an SD game on an SD set than mess with an HD texture pack. These games are beautiful to me not because of the tool kit used to make the art but for the art itself. Sure, I can appreciate improvements in the tool kit, but we've hit the point where the improvements are far too finite for me to be excited about. The things that seem to excite you, I have 0 passion for.

 

[Tecnniqe]

As someone who spends around 12 hours each weak playing couch coop games, and has been doing that for around 6 years now, I would like to note that this perspective is somewhat outdated.

Here is a list of couch coop games we completed, on PC, in that time period:

27. 08. 2010 - Lord of the Rings The Return of the King
02. 10. 2010 - Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light
11. 07. 2011 - The First Templar
20. 08. 2011 - Dungeon Siege 3
10. 12. 2011 - Renegade Ops
27. 01. 2012 - Jamestown
21. 07. 2012 - Trine
03. 08. 2012 - Dungeon Siege 3 - Treasures of the Sun
04. 08. 2012 - Bennu
10. 08. 2012 - Renegade Ops - Coldstrike
15. 09. 2012 - A Virus named Tom
14. 12. 2012 - Pid
04. 01. 2013 - Critter Crunch
29. 03. 2013 - Capsized
19. 07. 2013 - Bleed
06. 09. 2013 - N 2.0
20. 09. 2013 - Monaco
27. 09. 2013 - Sacred Citadel
08. 12. 2013 - Rayman Legends
13. 12. 2013 - Hammerwatch
27. 12. 2013 - FORCED
24. 01. 2014 - Pixeljunk Monsters Ultimate
28. 03. 2014 - Spelunky
06. 06. 2014 - Child of Light
18. 07. 2014 - Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION
18. 07. 2014 - Octodad: Dadliest Catch
08. 11. 2014 - Defense Grid 2
14. 11. 2014 - Binding of Isaac - Rebirth 
21. 11. 2014 - Never Alone (Kisima Ingitchuna)
13. 12. 2014 - Aqua Kitty - Milk Mine Defender 
27. 02. 2015 - Woodle Tree Adventures
17. 04. 2015 - Dynasty Warriors 8 XL
22. 05. 2015 - ibb & obb
29. 05. 2015 - Phantom Breaker: Battle Grounds
13. 06. 2015 - Crypt of the Necrodancer
03. 07. 2015 - Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris
07. 08. 2015 - Cook, Serve, Delicious!
25. 09. 2015 - Chariot
09. 10. 2015 - Assault Android Cactus
01. 01. 2016 - Tales of Zestiria
23. 01. 2016 - Tales of Zestiria - Alisha's Story
06. 02. 2016 - The Witness
18. 03. 2016 - Nomnom Galaxy
01. 04. 2016 - Towerfall Ascension
22. 04. 2016 - Wyv and Keep
30. 04. 2016 - Broforce
30. 04. 2016 - Ancient Defense
02. 07. 2016 - Salt and Sanctuary
08. 07. 2016 - Pix the Cat
22. 07. 2016 - Straima
09. 12. 2016 - VR The Diner Duo
07. 01. 2016 - Woodle Tree 2: Worlds

Note that this is just the subset of completed games. There are some, particularly STGs, that we played a lot but didn't complete. As well as couch coop games without an explicit "clear" condition, such as Audiosurf. And games we are still in the process of playing, like Trine 2 and N++.

It's still not enough for us to make do with just PC for local coop (Nintendo has some amazing exclusives), but it's getting there

Yoo ima save this and get some of these for couch coop fun

 

[MutFox]

I bet I have a gaming PC hooked to a bigger screen than most these GAF console gamers...
Probably don't understand how it's possible with their usual responses...
Have 2 tiered comfy couch seating too...

 

[Xion86]

That's a nice list Durante! May have to check some of those out.

Has anyone hooked a PC up to an LG 55" B6 or E6? Looking to get the E6 this year but was curious if it would be fine for a PC as well as consoles.

We have a Samsung 65" JS9500 in the living room with an Xbox One S but not a place to put a PC really, especially being a family living room layout and area. But have a spare room for gaming and thinking of upgrading the 1080p set there.

 

[Peltz]

Are you certain of this, and do you have any objective data to support your claim?

Personally, my subjective impression over the past few years has been (1) that more and more games I'd have never expected to see are getting PC releases.
Tomorrow, I'll get the latest "Tales of" game on PC, basically day-and-date with the console version.
Next month, not one but two Gust games are hitting Steam. (Holy crap! I'm still in disbelief)
The number of Final Fantasy games on Steam 5 years ago was 0. It's now 17.
And (2) that there are in fact more releases again in traditional PC genres, like grand strategy, 4X or traditional CRPGs, with surprisingly many PC exclusives.

Of course, those are just impressions from my perspective, perhaps equally as lacking in objectivity as yours are. However, just looking at the objective third-party data summarized in the picture linked in the point about the library in my previous post (see below), there is also no evidence of a "increasing scarcity" of PC exclusives.

PCs are great, sure. But there's something to be said about the closed nature of a console that has its appeal too.

Specifically, how a developer optimizes its software on a closed platform is fascinating to me as a gamer. Seeing how Nintendo develops great looking games on limited hardware like the 3DS is fascinating. Sure, if I emulated it on PC, I could turn up the resolution and add custom effects and whatnot. But I really enjoy seeing the limitations and how they're being dealt with by the designers.

It's why I continue to enjoy playing all of my old games on original hardware rather than emulate. It's like the difference between seeing a concert live, vs. seeing a remastered version of the same performance. Seeing that optimization and how developers have nailed (or failed to nail) a phenomenal presentation on a given fixed piece of hardware is like seeing a live performance.

Since PC can be fully customized, a lot of that "performance" is lost. You can get a perfect remastering every time if you spent enough money. But I really enjoy seeing what developers chose to prioritize in a fixed hardware medium. And I don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[univbee]

That's a nice list Durante! May have to check some of those out.

Has anyone hooked a PC up to an LG 55" B6 or E6? Looking to get the E6 this year but was curious if it would be fine with a PC attached as well as consoles.

Pretty much any PC with HDMI out will work on a TV, although you may have to redirect the sound output (whether you do or not depends on a few random factors with your exact setup), and you have to make sure overscan is disabled, which may have to be done by flagging your HDMI input a certain way (e.g. "PC").

 

[GRaider81]

OK, what other not-available-on-console games have you played since Civ 6 released?

For that matter can you point me to a NeoGAF thread for some? 100% serious, not trying to troll or get a rise out of you, I'm explicitly looking for threads talking about not-on-console games and not finding any. It's entirely possible I'm not aware of a bunch of great exclusive titles, and I would like to learn of these, but again the fact that I'm not aware they exist kind of underlines a big part of the issue.

Good on you for getting good mileage out of Civ6, unfortunately I was never any good at strategy games (I bought the first 5 Civ's) so I skipped it for the time being.

Sorry to jump in but Shadow Tactics and Planet Coaster are 2 off the top of my head

 

[Durante]

OK, what other not-available-on-console games have you played since Civ 6 released?

I can think of these which I played recently off the top of my head:

• SHENZHEN I/O (one of my Games of the Year)
• Xanadu Next (also on my GotY list)
• VA-11 Hall-A
• A dozen or probably more VR games (many of which are in early access, admittedly)
• Stellaris
• Momodora: Reverie under the Moonlight
• Straima
• Tyranny (though I didn't really get to play it much yet)

Those are just ones I played (or at least tried out, in the Tyranny case). In terms of big exclusive releases last year I can think of quite a few others, one of the largest is probably Total War: Warhammer.

I bet I have a gaming PC hooked to a bigger screen than most these GAF console gamers...

For couch coop we use a, well, couch (comfortable too!) in front of a 120" screen

 

[Rbk_3]

personnaly I just don't see the value in making the jump to 4k, the cost is too high for what it's worth to me

1080p is already pretty enough for me and resolution is just really low on my list of priority. I'd rather buy $1000 worth of fun games at 1080 than buy a new $1000 TV (keep in mind, canadian dollar) to play or watch stuff in 4k

But the problem is, even at 1080 you're not getting 60fps on most AAA games. There is more to it than just resolution.

 

[Abilidebob]

Regarding exclusives, there's something I've noticed that's quite...prevalent here on Neogaf. When a "console exclusive" game goes to PC it's quite common to find people getting actually angry that the game is going to another platform. Like that somehow devalues the game and original platform.

The opposite? Never saw it happen. I mean, holy shit, when I saw that Mount & Blade Warband was going to consoles I got happy. Because I knew that a game that I absolutely loved would get played by more people. Of course in that case I'd prefer for it to be played on a PC because its modding community is awesome. Same with Stardew. Xcom. Diablo. The increased availability of those games don't affect me or PC negatively.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Regarding exclusives, there's something I've noticed that's quite...prevalent here on Neogaf. When a "console exclusive" game goes to PC it's quite common to find people getting actually angry that the game is going to another platform. Like that somehow devalues the game and original platform.

The opposite? Never saw it happen. I mean, holy shit, when I saw that Mount & Blade Warband was going to consoles I got happy. Because I knew that a game that I absolutely loved would get played by more people. Of course in that case I'd prefer for it to be played on a PC because its modding community is awesome. Same with Stardew. Xcom. Diablo. The increased availability of those games don't affect me or PC negatively.

Actually Diablo was a weird one. Many do blame the console release for the barebone game we got as a result compared to previous iterations.

 

[Xion86]

Pretty much any PC with HDMI out will work on a TV, although you may have to redirect the sound output (whether you do or not depends on a few random factors with your exact setup), and you have to make sure overscan is disabled, which may have to be done by flagging your HDMI input a certain way (e.g. "PC").

Hmmm. I'm very tempted with getting this sometime and forgetting about Scorpio:

http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/landing/bulldog

Just wondering how much I'd lose out on gaming on an LG OLED where my consoles are over some 144Hz/G-Sync PC monitor on a desk (where I don't want to sit at).

 

[univbee]

Sorry to jump in but Shadow Tactics and Planet Coaster are 2 off the top of my head

No problem, I legit had never heard of either game.

ST looks like a game I'd be interested in checking out so thank you for that.

I can think of these which I played recently off the top of my head:

• SHENZHEN I/O (one of my Games of the Year)
• Xanadu Next (also on my GotY list)
• VA-11 Hall-A
• A dozen or probably more VR games (many of which are in early access, admittedly)
• Stellaris
• Momodora: Reverie under the Moonlight
• Straima
• Tyranny (though I didn't really get to play it much yet)

Those are just ones I played (or at least tried out, in the Tyranny case). In terms of big exclusive releases last year I can think of quite a few others, one of the largest is probably Total War: Warhammer.

For couch coop we use a, well, couch (comfortable too!) in front of a 120" screen

Thanks, I'll check these out too. Well, not the VR stuff, I got a PSVR.

Regarding exclusives, there's something I've noticed that's quite...prevalent here on Neogaf. When a "console exclusive" game goes to PC it's quite common to find people getting actually angry that the game is going to another platform. Like that somehow devalues the game and original platform.

You should have seen the post when the 360 version of FF13 was announced.

 

[TheSpoiler]

At the current moment, I just don't have the money to invest in upgrading. I'd LIKE to, don't get me wrong, and I feel like it's worthwhile in-game wise, but my FX4300 is booty, and to switch it out for a better CPU, I'd have to buy another motherboard because the CPUs for this Gigabyte are fucking terrible per cost, a new CPU which would be around 200 for something fairly decent (or maybe 150, but a high cost all the same right now), tinkering and hooking up the wires again (which isn't too terrible to do, I'm just lazy), and after that, I can finally see a return. But with Yakuza, Gravity Rush 2, Nier, Nioh, and RE7, I kinda just wanna play games right now and put the money towards those games, since i'm a bit more limited due to traveling more this year.

Once the summer ends, I'll probably upgrade, but it's just not feasible at the moment.

 

[Abilidebob]

Actually Diablo was a weird one. Many do blame the console release for the barebone game we got as a result compared to previous iterations.

Well there's when that happen. When that new "focus" ends up changing negatively some features in the franchise. Although Blizzard prepared the game for console release quite a while before releasing it there, the game was still pretty good. And from what I've heard their focus for it is still on the PC release, regarding updates and so on.

But you're right, there ARE some cases that can affect negatively PC releases, but those usually don't happen when a game was already on PC and later got a console release, Diablo being one of the exceptions.

 

[GRaider81]

No problem, I legit had never heard of either game.

ST looks like a game I'd be interested in checking out so thank you for that.



Thanks, I'll check these out too.



You should have seen the post when the 360 version of FF13 was announced.

ST is great, definitely give it a try, think there is a demo too

 

[Tecnniqe]

Well there's when that happen. When that new "focus" ends up changing negatively some features in the franchise. Although Blizzard prepared the game for console release quite a while before releasing it there, the game was still pretty good. And from what I've heard their focus for it is still on the PC release, regarding updates and so on.

But you're right, there ARE some cases that can affect negatively PC releases, but those usually don't happen when a game was already on PC and later got a console release, Diablo being one of the exceptions.

Yes, that being said post launch content especially after RoS have been 10/10 but IMO the game still suffers from its simplicity.

 

[jackal27]

I don't REFUSE to game on a PC, but I find it difficult. It doesn't have the same pick-up-and-play feeling of turning my console on and going. The other thing is that whenever I boot up my PC, Inalways begin stressing about work things. Whether I want to or not, I don't seem to be able to separate my work from my play unless there are clear distinctions.

 

[Mithos]

How to stop Windows from stealing focus?
It is annoying as hell. When I'm in a game Windows need to shut if even if world war 3 starts, I don't care I'm playing stop stealing focus and tab me out of the games.

Actually, it's a serious question how do one stop Windows from stealing focus when something happens outside your game?

 

[AnimaOnline]

I don't mind playing on PC and in fact some of my favourite games are PC games (Syberia, The Longest Journey, Deus Ex) but given the choice I'll usually just play on PS4. I think my primary reason would just be because I'm use to playing PC games at a desk while I'll play console games on my TV with my feet up. I get that I could just plug my PC up to my TV and use a controller but my PS4 is already there and I don't need to worry about driver support or graphical options so I just keep it simple. That said, certain games that I feel are better suited for PC or just have a heavy focus towards the PC community (Overwatch for example) I'll always happily get on PC.

 

[Metzhara]

If I'm being honest, it's a mental block for me. A PC for me is a work machine. The OS itself generally keeps me from getting comfortable. As a teen, many moons ago, playing adventure games was fine (and maybe some Xwing/TIE fighter.) As years went on, I stopped feeling comfy in the dungeon that is my desk.
Even if I could move my PC into the living room, trick it out, and make all the comfortable spaces happen, I'd still be using the OS.
I've even attempted to make a GUI Linux machine for this purpose and it just doesn't help. My goal is to at the very least have a solid emulation machine for many of my old games but ultimately, anything deeper gets back into OS territory.
And don't get me started on client updates. I hate that crap. X360 absolutely spoiled me. If an update took longer than 30 seconds, eff this!
Background updates are definitely a great thing.

Spoiler

(Though that could potentially be scripted... but what a hassle... I prefer DRM Free when I do game. Go GOG!)

 

[Widge]

I mean, the advantages of PC are pretty well documented.

If none of that is of sufficient interest to you, then sure, there is no reason to game on PC.

Which is quite right. There is a populous, and I would say it is a significant one, where a grand majority of this is pointless (and an expensive premium to have unused functionality), and for some where a massive unmanaged experience is a huge negative. If you're not prepared to put in the work required for PC gaming (and there is work) you can end up having a sub par experience. There literally is no reason for them to game on PC, it is valid for them, correct for them an indisputable. The PC is a worse platform than a console, for them.

 

[MutFox]

For couch coop we use a, well, couch (comfortable too!) in front of a 120" screen

Nice, I'm using a 120" screen for the PC too...
And yep, couch co-op is amazing on it.

 

[Audette]

if people are keeping track I'll add my reasons why I choose console over pc.

#1. The operating system. I don't like messing with Windows, I don't like setting up Linux. I don't enjoy the barrage of constant updates that has made my pc into a snail for the first hour after I turn it on. It's a chore.

#2. Kids. I can't keep everything working for them. At a point where they are too young to deal with the additional problems that pop up or the amount of configs required.

#3. UPGRADES. All I can say is that's it's a rich mans game to go all PC. A way of playing a higher quality games yes, but upgrades are not affordable enough for me. My particular situation, bottlenecked processor because you couldn't afford top of the line, leads to outdated pin sets which means complete mobo replacement. Which leads to new versions of Ram standards. All to use a GPU that now no longer has sufficient VRAM because of higher RAM pools on consoles. Yay. Basically the ease of upgrading is a myth, I now need a whole new PC.

Anyways, I don't know why people always think PC should be where all the major gaming happens. At least at this point it is still easier to pick up a playstation and have it just work. Though with stagered SKUs I can see them loosing ground to over complexity. XBOX seems like they are trying to convert over simply being Windows Set top boxes so maybe this will become easier in the future.

Edit: #4 poor pc ports, with either unoptimized builds or missing features like split screen.

Edit2: Running a quad core i5 750 on 1156 socket, so for Canadian prices I'm looking for in excess of 500$ for a decent new processor/mobo then need new new DDR4 ram. All to run my GTX 680 which only has 2gb which I am not sure if it's worth it. It's too much money to try and find out.

 

[Bloodporne]

I play stuff like Brutal Doom, OG Quake, OG Doom and so on on my work computer just fine but I have absolutely no intention of investing in another up-to-date to play new releases.

The reasons boil down to:

1. Money
2. Money
3. Money
4. Time
5. Aggravation

I was quite into PC gaming at one point in the early 2000s and I just found it a hassle. I don't know if things have changed but I can't be bothered investing in a new piece of hardware every 6 months, worrying if the game will run adequately, having driver issues and all the drama that at least went with it back then. I absolutely prefer the laziness of consoles. The box says PS4 on it, I know I can just hit Start or whatever and that shit works, end of story. The fact that I truly don't care about graphics outside of aesthetics makes this a no-brainer for me.

The only reason I've even remotely looked into maybe picking up a modern game for PC was Durante Dark Souls but I don't have the specs to run it.

 

[MisterHero]

I jumped head first into buying Star Wars Battlefront II off of Steam.

First the game crashed because it turns out I was missing an audio driver. I had to find that out myself as the game failed to explain what was going on.

Then I jumped into a game only to be surprised that 1st Person was the default mode. Gamepads can be configured but it's not as simple as playing the console version.

So yeah, it wasn't pretty getting the game going but I'm confident I'll get to revisit Hoth over and over like on PS2.

Being able to use my PS3 controller via a 3rd-party program was nice though. Saved me some money.

 

[imBask]

But the problem is, even at 1080 you're not getting 60fps on most AAA games. There is more to it than just resolution.

oh yeah I know, I was strictly talking about resolution there

and I meant that as a PC gamer first, I just bought a 1070 because my 670 was trailing and I got a bonus at work, but I was still way ok with playing most games on medium or high at 30 fps

 

[Coda]

Something just never feels right gaming on a PC and it never feels like I'm in a gaming ecosystem. I know that sounds kind of silly but it's how I feel. When I turn on any console I own, I know what I'm getting and it feels like more of a community in terms of playing with friends. I only game on my PC if I have a game which I can only play there or if I'm doing emulation but overall I realize at this point that I'll always be a console guy.

 

[thefil]

That Durante post was amazing.

Since ease of use is such a huge point for people, I wanted to share my own version. Now I guess these days a lot of people use a tablet/phone/laptop as their primary computer for general tasks, but I personally still use my stationary computer at my desk for most things. Because of that I turn it on when I get home from work and sign in as part of my daily ritual.

Once you get past that, I hope it's obvious that playing at my desk would be trivially easy.

The couch case is more interesting. I used to run a long HDMI cable to my TV, and I'd have to switch outputs (couldn't mirror because monitor/TV have slightly different refresh rates) and audio devices in order to play. Plus I'd occasionally have wireless controller issues or pairing issues if I was using anything other than the DS4.

However, I since bought a Steam Link and it makes playing my desktop PC games on the TV effortless. It pairs amazingly with both my Steam controller and our Dual Shock 4s with no configuration. When I hit the home button on either controller it handles getting the audio and video there, disabling the audio on my PC, and entering Steam Big Picture mode.

So, with the preface that my PC gets turned on when I am home regardless of whether I'm planning to play games or not, I would say for me personally playing on the TV is as easy as playing the PS4.

This is not meant to say anyone is wrong for not wanting to PC game or whatever, especially if you don't have a desk PC that is expected to be on. Just sharing one "form factor" that works really well for me.

 

[MutFox]

if people are keeping track I'll add my reasons why I choose console over pc.

#1. The operating system. I don't like messing with Windows, I don't like setting up Linux. I don't enjoy the barrage of constant updates that has made my pc into a snail for the first hour after I turn it on. It's a chore.

#2. Kids. I can't keep everything working for them. At a point where they are too young to deal with the additional problems that pop up or the amount of configs required.

#3. UPGRADES. All I can say is that's it's a rich mans game to go all PC. A way of playing a higher quality games yes, but upgrades are not affordable enough for me. My particular situation, bottlenecked processor because you couldn't afford top of the line, leads to outdated pin sets which means complete mobo replacement. Which leads to new versions of Ram standards. All to use a GPU that now no longer has sufficient VRAM because of higher RAM pools on consoles. Yay. Basically the ease of upgrading is a myth, I now need a whole new PC.

Anyways, I don't know why people always think PC should be where all the major gaming happens. At least at this point it is still easier to pick up a playstation and have it just work. Though with stagered SKUs I can see them loosing ground to over complexity. XBOX seems like they are trying to convert over simply being Windows Set top boxes so maybe this will become easier in the future.

Edit: #4 poor pc ports, with either unoptimized builds or missing features like split screen.

1. My current PC starts up faster than a console

2. Learning to use a PC as a kid got me the job I have now. (Never went to school for it, now a Systems Analyst for major media company)

3. My current PC was bought in 2008, I did the 1st upgrade (a video card) last year.

4. PC ports usually end up the best version. Sometimes not on release though.
Split screen is a hit or miss, but really, that's going away on consoles too... (Unless it's Nintendo)

 

[dcx4610]

I grew up on PC gaming. I love, and in many ways find more immersive, the experience of playing up close to a smaller monitor.

But as an adult I just can't stomach the time investment required to maintain a gaming rig and deal with finicky software settings and tweaking. It's just too much of a time sink, and that's not even accounting for periodic troubleshooting rabbit holes ("Oh, the game's crashing at a certain point. Are you running it on an ATI card? The latest drivers break this particular game there. Change this setting in the INI to turn off a graphical feature for now, does that get it running?" and so on).

Most of my friends aren't familiar with PC gaming, so if I want to play any sort of multiplayer, consoles are the only route. This is especially true since I use couch co-op a great deal, which is an experience almost completely absent from the PC.

And with the greater acceptance of full-fledged PC gameplay on consoles, and the flourishing market for console indie games, I find there's very little you miss out on by avoiding the PC.

I see these complaints a lot and they were valid...10-15 years ago. Windows 10, Nvidia, Steam and other companies have basically made PC gaming fool proof. Drivers are automatically updated if you choose, bugs are rare these days and fixed fairly quickly and if you build a good machine, it can last you a decade now. I've played probably 30 PC games from start to finish in 2016 and I had one crash which required nothing more than to restart the game.

Things are different now and better than ever.

 

[MutFox]

Something just never feels right gaming on a PC and it never feels like I'm in a gaming ecosystem. I know that sounds kind of silly but it's how I feel. When I turn on any console I own, I know what I'm getting and it feels like more of a community in terms of playing with friends. I only game on my PC if I have a game which I can only play there or if I'm doing emulation but overall I realize at this point that I'll always be a console guy.

For me, I'll always be a mixed gamer.
Sometimes there will be an exclusive I need a console for,
but for everything else, PC is King.

As for online communities, my friends are on PC.
Plus games are cheaper, you don't need a great PC to play the games, they're pretty scalable.

 

[Coda]

Playing on PC is definitely easier now and I've had a lot less problems as of late but generally I still don't enjoy playing on PC.