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[Crimson-Death]

That bitchin' acumen, the best acumen.

 

[peteykirch]

During the campaign it looked impossible that the GOP could get to 270 evs because the blue wall looked so solid, and the actual victory margin was so less in those states. This is an election that the democrats should not have lost. They were more interested in racking up the score. With the electoral college rules, the path to 270 for Republicans goes through states that are slowly turning blue like Arizona. Getting rid of the EC will make winning more easier for them.

I don't know, because then you still have the highly populated blue states that allowed Hilary to win the popular vote. Who cares if a democrat only gets 200K votes in Arizona, if they can get 6 million in California.

 

[RDreamer]

If it went by % of vote, Hilary would've had the higher EV count.

I don't really give a shit about one particular outcome and trying to figure it out from there. I care about having a better system that isn't dumb as shit.

Hillary would have won by popular vote, too.

 

[TaterTots]

EC has no place in this day and age. Citizens of America should not have their votes weighted based upon where they live.

It's nothing but a disgusting loophole not being exploited by the GOP ti impost minority rule.

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

This isn't really complicated.


-Trump doesn't actually like or care about the electoral college because it smacks to him of lame boring rules and bureaucracy.
-Trump defended the electoral college for like two seconds on Twitter because it felt like an attack on him, which is the only thing he cares about.
-Everyone points out that Trump lost the popular vote by a significant margin but still gets to be president because of a political establishment rule, which to a guy who convinces himself that he's a rule breaking renegade and everyone loves him and that he has the biggest crowds ever is maddening because it undercuts everything he told himself
-Trump then declares that the popular vote was clearly rigged with illegal votes and they need to make sure that they get rid of all of that nasty rigging
-Trump then questions whether they should also get rid of the EC, because in his, uh, mind (let's call it that), he thinks that once those illegal votes are out of the way and there's no way to win on what he views as a lame stupid technicality, then he'll actually win a second term because America loves him and he's very popular and legitimate and nobody will be able to argue against him and hurt his feelings

To be fair, he didn't like the EC before the election either. It might be a good sign that somewhere deep down Trump believes in honest competition (see also his positive remark on HRC in the second debate), even that means he has to lose somewhere.

He did go bankrupt many times already. (maybe) He knows how to lose sometimes. He just can't take the idea of 'winning' without actually winning.

I think it's worth the gamble of seeing whether the EC can be replaced or the popular vote get primary over it. It's dangerous, but either republicans have to impeach him, or they can create some degree of pacification by amending the system. Otherwise, either through election or revolution, they'll be gone as soon as millennials can take over in 2018 and onwards. Bitches haven't been paying attention, but at 35+ age from 2015 on, we the people now. Get millennials on all those uncontested races, doesn't matter if they can't win, just have them show the fuck up.

Btw, Trump also wanted limited terms for the senate, if you all recall. So maybe there's a chance he can something good that isn't a Bannon or GOP thing.

 

[turmoil]

I feel like people always forget that the EC has a huge role in having minority votes heard at all
Like it's obviously very flawed, but...

That's why there are only two viable political parties in the US.

Everyone knows that any ideology can be represented with two parties without excluding anyone.

 

[Ithil]

I think the Democrats have a huge advantage in the electoral college with many paths to 270. They shouldn't have lost this election but they did somehow. With no electoral college, the Republicans can easily pander their way to victory.

Democrats have California and NY, a big advantage in the popular vote. Republicans have Texas, but most red states are pretty low population overall.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

During the campaign it looked impossible that the GOP could get to 270 evs because the blue wall looked so solid, and the actual victory margin was so less in those states. This is an election that the democrats should not have lost. They were more interested in racking up the score. With the electoral college rules, the path to 270 for Republicans goes through states that are slowly turning blue like Arizona. Getting rid of the EC will make winning more easier for them.

I don't know. I know 538 received a fair amount of criticism this year, but they noted this as a possibility for some time and repeatedly challenged the notion that Hillary had a legitimate firewall.

 

[Breads]

I feel like people always forget that the EC has a huge role in having minority votes heard at all
Like it's obviously very flawed, but...

And for the second time in just as many decades it literally did the exact opposite.

Assuming what you say is true... your point? A majority by millions are being disenfranchised right now. Gambling with people's lives with healthcare bullshit, lax regulations on saving the environment and control of pollution, the wall, threat of martial law, controlling the press, muslim banning, anti abortion, pro religion, collapse in diplomacy, and etc... how can you defend this stupidity.

Ill stop editing the list because jesus fuck the EC failed at it's explicit job here and it's not like we were blindsided by this. This is what this idiot ran on.

 

[zeemumu]

Has its pros and cons but I think Trump turning on the thing that helped him win is hilarious.

 

[Eusis]

For the most part I would agree. But as it has diverged from the popular vote in two of the last five elections, I'd argue that it's becoming more of a problem. It's particularly problematic given the size of Trump's popular vote deficit here. It's not like this was some razor thin margin. He lost by two percentage points (nearly 3 million votes).

Probably most importantly, it feels like it's only served to enable candidates who not only weren't the most popular but end up being worse options. This wasn't exactly obvious with Bush vs Gore to a lot of people at the time in the way this was, but it definitely showed as the election went on, and this is even more of a blatant example when basically EVERYTHING about him screamed unfit for office.

It's easy to go "well it's just not working like YOU want it to work" but we're talking about trying to pick the most effective, representative leaders, not winning a stupid game.

EDIT: Nevermind that this was devised when there were 13 states. Not 50.

 

[RDreamer]

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

For fuck's sake, why in the world would middle America be screwed if we still have the Senate and the House of Representatives which BOTH amplify small states voices?

And, again, the EC encourages voter suppression. In a popular vote if a state like Wisconsin wanted to have their voice and way off life not forgotten then that piece of shit Scott Walker would have to actively encourage more Wisconsinites to vote. More voters = more power. In an EC system like we have that fuckturd can keep suppressing votes and the actual power of Wisconsin in relation to everywhere else stays the same. Less votes = same power = more power for the party doing the suppression. It's a horrible system that encourages this sort of fuckery, mostly because it was designed to give power to states with voiceless populations (*cough*slave states*cough*)

I feel like people always forget that the EC has a huge role in having minority votes heard at all
Like it's obviously very flawed, but...

I feel like people always forget the House and the Senate exist to do just this...

Oh wait, they do forget that because they never fucking vote during the midterms.

 

[peteykirch]

Democrats have California and NY, a big advantage in the popular vote. Republicans have Texas, but most red states are pretty low population overall.

Even in Texas the divide isn't that great, it was barely a million votes difference, compared in California where Hilary had 8+ million and Donald around 4.5 million

 

[Auto_aim1]

I don't know. I know 538 received a fair amount of criticism this year, but they noted this as a possibility for some time and repeatedly challenged the notion that Hillary had a legitimate firewall.

I kind of feel like Trump used Democrat policies (mainly trade) to win those states. It would be very difficult for an average Republican to even have a chance to flip them because they would be pro TPP, free trade etc.

 

[Stinkles]

I'm confused by his tactics. So I'm going to keep acting tough until I figure out what's going on.

I'm going to nod gruffly but noncommittally.

 

[Narroo]

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

The problem here is that instead now it's the midwest/swing states deciding everyone's fate.

You're looking at it as a binary problem: "Coast versus fields." That's wrong. It only seems that way because we have a poor electoral system. Plenty of countries have voting systems, like the alternative vote, which are aimed at getting candidates everyone can agree on, as opposed to one of two polar opposites. In this case, we'd be much more likely to vote a balanced politician that would be able to represent everyone.

 

[DrForester]

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

Tell me why people in the midwest should have votes that count more than people on the coast? Why should people on the coast be subject to the minority whims of the people in the midwest?

Tell me why my fucking vote should not count as much as theirs.

 

[chillybright]

Isn't this exactly what gaf wanted for the past two months?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I think internally he's hating his job already, wants to go back to being a cushy billionaire without having the world laughing and criticizing you, and he KNOWS that if it weren't for the Electoral College, he could have dodged this bullet. His presidential run was supposed to be an ad campaign for the Trump Network, and now he has the most criticized, stressful job in the world.

 

[ErichWK]

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

SO the minority should rule over the majority?

 

[soundscream]

Has anyone done the math on the EV count if there were no winner take all states and electors were awarded proportionally like in the primaries.

 

[gamerMan]

We should get rid of the electoral college and we should also not limit a president to only 2 terms.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

When he says McConnel talked him out of it, im sure it was something closer to "We have the piss tapes, stop going off script".

 

[BlueTsunami]

This tells me that Trump is biased towards ego versus self preservation. Which should be obvious at this point but this seals it. This is going to be a batshit crazy four years.

 

[Mike M]

Has anyone done the math on the EV count if there were no winner take all states and electors were awarded proportionally like in the primaries.

I don't remember there exact numbers, but yes. Neither get to 270, so it would have gone to the House to eject Trump regardless.

 

[rjinaz]

We should get rid of the electoral college and we should also not limit a president to only 2 terms.

I'm mixed on that. I would say a limit of 2 consecutive terms but allowing more than 2 terms total is more democratic than allowing a person to preside indefinitely because then it's more "rule" than "preside".

 

[whytemyke]

I mean Trump isn't a dictator. The Electoral College would require a constitutional amendment to fix.

Also yes they would still win. There hasn't been a long period of presidential dominance by one party in quite a while.

There's been one Presidential election since 1988 where the Republican won the popular vote.

They would be screwed if it was gone. At least until they adopted

 

[Netherscourge]

He probably thinks they can get rid of the EC and enact really strict voter ID laws, which would get him back those 3 million votes which he claims are fraudulent.

If repealing the EC went hand-in-hand with requiring a Gov-issued Photo ID, like a driver's license, then the Republicans can suppress a lot of votes.

 

[Wads]

Probably wants to get rid of it and install himself as dictator like Putin.

 

[soundscream]

I don't remember there exact numbers, but yes. Neither get to 270, so it would have gone to the House to eject Trump regardless.

Either way I think its the way it should go. What motivation does a Democrat in Alabama or a Republican in California have to vote in a presidential election? I think it would improve turnout.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Trump strikes me as someone who believes his own lies. So yes, I do think he's dumb enough to believe that he won the popular vote.

 

[Breads]

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

So what? Majority interest being oppressed by ingnorant/ insular/ religious/ fearful/ failed side America is an objectively worse alternative. Why should millions of votes be invalidated by a group of people who think immigration and islam are the cause of and solution to all of their problems?

 

[Blader]

I can't believe McConnell's way of talking Trump out of this was "recounts take a long time."

 

[Izayoi]

We should get rid of the electoral college and we should also not limit a president to only 2 terms.

Absolutely not.

As much as I would've loved to have Obama around for another term, the two term limit is a good thing.

 

[jabuseika]

Do it, fucking do it you madman.

Reps would never win again.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I kind of feel like Trump used Democrat policies (mainly trade) to win those states. It would be very difficult for an average Republican to even have a chance to flip them because they would be pro TPP, free trade etc.

What does an average Republican look like post-Trump? I don't think we really know right now.

 

[Byakuya769]

I feel like people always forget that the EC has a huge role in having minority votes heard at all
Like it's obviously very flawed, but...

It does no such thing.

 

[Imperfected]

Wow, does he actually believe he won the popular vote? I thought it was just standard Trump-fuckery.

Hey, I say we goad him into doing it. Talk about how the electoral college almost "cheated" him out of his "victory" and it has to go so he won't have to worry when he "wins" the popular vote "again" in 2020.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Trump's plan is to suppress votes to win. Much easier to do if all you have to do is suppress any random vote anywhere than votes in specific states. He thinks he can suppress 3m votes nationally.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Trump: "Get rid of the electoral college, it's an outdated system. Old school, stone age, not good for us moderns. Come to think of it, get rid of this "voting" thing altogether. I will be the first KING of America, and my family will continue their long, quality line.... very good genes.... as the rulers of this great nation of Trumpland!"

 

[Lautaro]

That self-sabotaging insecurity...

 

[Codeblue]

You won't. Only someone with big hands could do something like that.

 

[Enduin]

I can't believe McConnell's way of talking Trump out of this was "recounts take a long time."

Trump is a child.

Parent - "Donald you can have 3 marshmallows now or you can have 1 right now but if you wait just 30 minutes you'll get another 10 more."

Donny Small Hands - "Nice try you turd, I'll take 3 right now. What a loser. Who waits for marshmallows."

 

[Miracle]

The EC is of itself, a system that was created from racism. To appease Southern states.

So basically, the EC is racist and it should be torn down.

 

[SolarPowered]

Let Trump have this one. Bernie should whisper in Trump's ear about proportional representation across states, so those poor Trump voters in nasty blue states can finally have their votes counted too. No one tell him about Southern Democrats, though.

 

[Neuromancer]

I feel like people always forget that the EC has a huge role in having minority votes heard at all
Like it's obviously very flawed, but...

Bullshit. All it does is give more weight to votes in a very particular number of heavily populated swing states.

 

[Unknown One]

Bullshit. All it does is give more weight to votes in a very particular number of heavily populated swing states.

Pretty much and it has gotten us fucking Trump.

 

[Kaiterra]

Okay this convinces me that Trump actually believes all his voter fraud allegations unlike the rest of the GOP when they go on about it, using it as a disingenuous ploy as they do. I mean that doesn't make it any more true. The man is one of the biggest marks in the world and he's a mark for himself above all.

 

[sir_kevith]

He doesn't wanna get re-elected on accident.

 

[Gruco]

If you were to base elections off popular vote most of middle America would be screwed. Mostly coastal states would decide everyone's fate. It reminds me of how Hillary Clinton said the midwest's way of living is a lost cause. Those states spoke up, hoping their way of living could be revived instead of being a hopeless wasteland. Those states do not want their fate in the hands of CA, NY, etc. The way of living is different there. Furthermore, nominees could simply focus on largely populated areas and ignore a big part of this country to win a election. The EC makes sense, but it needs to be tweaked.

Can you explain to me why you think a person living in Philly is more important than a person living in Houston?

WI, MI and PA are homes to big cities and college towns that absolutely do have more in common with NY/CA and voted in solidarity with them. That's exactly why those states were so close. Give the upper penninsula to WI and the panhandle to AL and Clinton wins. Why is one way of drawing those lines morally superior to the other?

btw, can you help me find where Hillary said that the Midwest's way of living was a lost cause (can't find anything on google)?

Even in Texas the divide isn't that great, it was barely a million votes difference, compared in California where Hilary had 8+ million and Donald around 4.5 million

Unfortunately, many people still don't realize how much of Hillary's popular vote lead came from Texas (and to a lesser extent, AZ and GA) in addition to the west coast. I mean, it makes sense for people who want to push the self-serving (but completely bogus) "coastal elites" narrative but the reality of the matter is there are cities and suburbs all over the country which came through for Clinton.

Also, California is deceptive because it is the biggest state. One could easily find a region in Appalacia where Trump wins a similar margin. The lines on the map aren't particularly meaningful in assessing an individual's rights to be democratically represented (or rather, shouldn't be).