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Stellaris |OT| Imperium Universalis
- Thread starter More_Badass
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Frozenprince
Banned
Welcome to the Paradox life.
TheVoidDragon
Member
What are peoples thoughts on the DLC approach to this so far?
While i haven't bought any of them yet due to their price, i feel like it's not going too well. They're great features that i'd enjoy, but at the same time it doesn't seem like there's really enough there. Leviathans has 3 features, and they all feel like they're there to fix problems with the core game itself, yet they want money for it. The recent Devlog where they detail Space Habitats just further shows what i mean; they admit they know you can't really play a "tall" empire, so they've made a new feature they'll support that as they know it's something the game is lacking...and then have made it a paid-only feature.
If they were additions that felt like they weren't 'needed' or weren't additions to aspects of the game that felt like they weren't properly finished then i wouldn't mind, but it's basically paying more to have the game be closer to how it should have been all along.
This is the first game like this from Paradox that i've bought and I'd read about how their other games are pretty basic without with DLC, but obviously a game with DLC is going to be better than one without it. I don't understand how anyone can support charging money to fix something the developers know isn't right and needs work. So far the only DLC i've seen that i've felt shouldn't have been free content is the Plantoid pack, but that just seemed overpriced in general.
While i haven't bought any of them yet due to their price, i feel like it's not going too well. They're great features that i'd enjoy, but at the same time it doesn't seem like there's really enough there. Leviathans has 3 features, and they all feel like they're there to fix problems with the core game itself, yet they want money for it. The recent Devlog where they detail Space Habitats just further shows what i mean; they admit they know you can't really play a "tall" empire, so they've made a new feature they'll support that as they know it's something the game is lacking...and then have made it a paid-only feature.
If they were additions that felt like they weren't 'needed' or weren't additions to aspects of the game that felt like they weren't properly finished then i wouldn't mind, but it's basically paying more to have the game be closer to how it should have been all along.
This is the first game like this from Paradox that i've bought and I'd read about how their other games are pretty basic without with DLC, but obviously a game with DLC is going to be better than one without it. I don't understand how anyone can support charging money to fix something the developers know isn't right and needs work. So far the only DLC i've seen that i've felt shouldn't have been free content is the Plantoid pack, but that just seemed overpriced in general.
mcz117chief
Member
I kind of agree but I think most of this can be said about vast majority of expansions. For example Dark Souls 2 Scholar of the First Sin is a standalone game but it's basically just super updated version of the original with the DLC.
I believe that Stellaris was fine when it released. It had a lot of neat stuff in there that worked quite well. It wasn't a perfect game by any means, but it worked and I had a ton of fun with it.
Of course, I would wish these things were part of content updates but they decided they want money for them so I can either buy them, wait for a sale or straight up ignore them. I don't believe they are necessary to enjoy the game.
What I would like to see is add more options to religion. I want to spread the Gospel across the universe and bring all aliens to Jesus
The base game was more than fine for me, though I can understand why people, especially long time Paradox fans, would think differently. Ultimately I think devs want to ship the best game that they can given the time/cash budget available to them and from there it's up to people to continue funding development of the game if they want to see more through expansions. So far I haven't felt anything was being egregiously charged for, especially given that the base game wasn't full price to begin with and they made it so that the modding community could add so much to the game.
mcz117chief
Member
I wonder. Have they added the option to violate closed borders yet? I hate it when my fleet gets stuck because of some douche who decided to close borders on me :/
I think the DLCs cost a bit too much for their content, but then again they release a patch with about as much content for free at the same time. They could've easily bundled that free content to the DLC so I don't mind too much.
I kind of agree but I think most of this can be said about vast majority of expansions. For example Dark Souls 2 Scholar of the First Sin is a standalone game but it's basically just super updated version of the original with the DLC.
I believe that Stellaris was fine when it released. It had a lot of neat stuff in there that worked quite well. It wasn't a perfect game by any means, but it worked and I had a ton of fun with it.
Of course, I would wish these things were part of content updates but they decided they want money for them so I can either buy them, wait for a sale or straight up ignore them. I don't believe they are necessary to enjoy the game.
What I would like to see is add more options to religion. I want to spread the Gospel across the universe and bring all aliens to Jesus
I see your Space Pope and raise you an ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
mcz117chief
Member
Hypnotoad would be like the ultimate enemy of any religious faction, no doubt about that. But still, my Catholic Union would defeat it
Hypnotoad would be like the ultimate enemy of any religious faction, no doubt about that. But still, my Catholic Union would defeat it
Them's fightin words!
Frozenprince
Banned
It's the traditional Paradox DLC cycle, and it's fine, since they put a lot of good features out in free updates, as well.
I just really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally need a diplo update. Federations don't feel enough like a union, there's no variety in your approach to other empires, etc etc.
More end game depth and more diplo and I'm set.
I just really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally need a diplo update. Federations don't feel enough like a union, there's no variety in your approach to other empires, etc etc.
More end game depth and more diplo and I'm set.
wish they fixed the main game loop
game feels way too slow. wars sometimes drag on while I am chasing the enemy for victory points and then there is a TEN YEARS TRUCE and tech is slow to come by. I normally will fight staggered wars against multiple opponents so the times where I am in peace are short but even then alliances may prevent that -particularly towards the end-
maybe I am doing something wrong but a lot of times the game is a lot of waiting
game feels way too slow. wars sometimes drag on while I am chasing the enemy for victory points and then there is a TEN YEARS TRUCE and tech is slow to come by. I normally will fight staggered wars against multiple opponents so the times where I am in peace are short but even then alliances may prevent that -particularly towards the end-
maybe I am doing something wrong but a lot of times the game is a lot of waiting
Frozenprince
Banned
That's just Paradox games. It gets better and better as more and more updates and DLC drop. All it needs is better tech development (speed it up a tad, more variety) and you'll feel like you're accomplishing more.
The meta needs just more depth, more to do when you're at peace, more to do to facilitate war, etc etc.
Do you move the game speed slider up to "fastest" when you hit a lull?
TheVoidDragon
Member
There's a massive difference between releasing a game that feels complete and then just improving it, and releasing a game that even the developers say is lacking and then charging money to fix it, though. With most games it doesn't feel like the core game is lacking just so they can sell you more later on.
A Lack of late-game content, hardly any things to find and interact with (E.g the space alien stuff that had about 2 fairly meaningless species + pirates) and being unable to play "tall" Empires are all problems with the base game...that they'll only fix for you if you give them more money.
It was a good game at release and the free updates obviously do improve it greatly as well, but that doesn't stop it from seeming like it was incomplete and the DLC is being used to get more money for 'finishing' the game and fixing those issues.
CertifiedFP
Member
Honestly, after a few months of playing, I can't help but feel that Stellaris is shallow as hell.
Game really needs to be Crusader Kings 2 in Space and FAST if it's going to be something people care about five years from now.
As much as I'm excited for 1.5, looking at what's been shown of it so far, I see nothing that looks like it's more than a mere bandaid-fix for the problems that face the game. The new systems (Especially Factions 2.0) look like they've got the same bias towards democracies with dictatorships being an afterthought, as every version of the game has been so far.
We seriously need some mechanics that flesh out the autocracies and micro-politics, rather than adding more and more to democracies. Like, dynasty mechanics, espionage, leaders who are a bit more than pictures with numbers.
Game really needs to be Crusader Kings 2 in Space and FAST if it's going to be something people care about five years from now.
As much as I'm excited for 1.5, looking at what's been shown of it so far, I see nothing that looks like it's more than a mere bandaid-fix for the problems that face the game. The new systems (Especially Factions 2.0) look like they've got the same bias towards democracies with dictatorships being an afterthought, as every version of the game has been so far.
We seriously need some mechanics that flesh out the autocracies and micro-politics, rather than adding more and more to democracies. Like, dynasty mechanics, espionage, leaders who are a bit more than pictures with numbers.
So we in the Star Trek New Horizons mod team are probably going to release our 0.9 update this weekend. Lots of cool things included; I'm especially proud of the new Tellarite ships I built... but for detail, we've posted some information about our work to help make starbase upgrades more interesting visually:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...total-conversion.954925/page-58#post-22382710
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...total-conversion.954925/page-58#post-22382710
Ohhhh that's all looking pretty.
Might have to finally start a game with the mod I think!
Cameron122
Member
Crusader Kings 2 in space is basically my dream game :/
DiscoShark
Banned
https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
Stream's up if anyone's interested. New expansion is called "Utopia" and one of the headline features is the "Megastructure". No details yet, they want to preview stuff in the stream itself. Dev diary will be up after the stream's over.
Stream's up if anyone's interested. New expansion is called "Utopia" and one of the headline features is the "Megastructure". No details yet, they want to preview stuff in the stream itself. Dev diary will be up after the stream's over.
TheVoidDragon
Member
What have they shown for the new expansion so far? All i can remember is the space habitats, megastructures and some new management options, i hope there's a lot more than that.
Edit: Just found the page...it seems like it's going to be another exansion with hardly anything in it. Just megastructures, space habitats, traditions and rights. I don't see how that is the "first major expansion" when there isn't anymore content than Leviathan had.
Edit: Just found the page...it seems like it's going to be another exansion with hardly anything in it. Just megastructures, space habitats, traditions and rights. I don't see how that is the "first major expansion" when there isn't anymore content than Leviathan had.
Lister
Banned
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...
This is on top of all the other goodies coming in Banks too.
oh yeah
depending on which pc I am playing it helps a lot ... or not. my MBP struggles a little but in my desktop i5 months and years go by relatively quickly
still ten years of truce is pace killing
TheVoidDragon
Member
I'm not being sarcastic, I assumed by "first major expansion" it was referring to the paid DLC, but i realize now i meant all the new content overall.
Still, the paid DLC part of it does seem a bit lacking again.
There's only been 5 dev diaries so far for 1.5, but regardless, 1.5 is to contain a pretty extensive revamp to factions and ethics too.
Paradox just has a habit of putting the stuff they deem essential to play into the free patch so they can rebalance and work on features in it later on, so no one who bought the expansion starts to feel cheesed off if they later on remove or re-do something.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Does that mean there's likely to be more content than that for the paid DLC part of this?
Poodlestrike
Banned
They've committed to not having any major game play systems tied to dlc ever again after the retinues fiasco, so if that's what you're looking for, the paid expansions are always gonna be a little disappointing.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Not neccesarily actual gameplay systems, i was just hoping there would just be more content in general, like if the content of Leviathan and this had been combined into one DLC pack instead for example.
Frozenprince
Banned
Please, let 1.6 and the next X-pac be DIPLO BASED.
Building ring worlds sounds cool though.
Building ring worlds sounds cool though.
For sure. Ring Worlds and Orbitals and Matrioshka brains and the like are very cool ideas, but they sound like late game options. Whereas diplomacy occurs from first contact, and the current diplomatic system is very poor.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, as much as I enjoy regular 4x games, the trading system as it exists kind of massively undercuts any attempt at Grand strategy diplomacy. Needs to be way more limited and granular.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
How much better is this game nowt compared to when it was released? I have it but quit after about a week and a half.
I have an odd question about the space stations etc that they are planning in the next update. They talk about this allowing you to build tall but if they count as planets for the purpose of research multiplier etc then would that be going tall? I mean you would have a smaller cultural boundary but if you have a large number of space stations rather than a large number of planets what is really the difference as far as wide/tall? You would no longer be forced to go conquering to grow your empire and it would especially help if you are boxed in but I can't see that changing the current strategy of wide being best.
CertifiedFP
Member
Who? What? Where?
Stellaris NEEDS more Micropolitics and emphasis on individuals and other intrigue that the game lacks at this time.
You never play Paradox Games don't you? It is always like this, Paradox released $20 expansion that looks barebones from its features list. However Paradox "barebones" update always guaranteed to change the way play from before. You'll never know how different the game unfold and play unless you play it yourself.
Yes Paradox can cram more content in their expansion but apparently as some poster just pointed out above, they can't do this without angering the portion of fanbase who wait for sales rather than buy it straight away.
CK2 need years to be where it at now. Stellaris will be there eventually as the game isn't even 1 year old yet.
Have you read the dev diaries? (Honest question)
They have tweak the faction system so now it's no longer just separatist or hostile element. They'll become focus in an expansion sooner or later.
Frozenprince
Banned
If they crammed more content in each x-pac they'd take a year to come out per pac and I'd never get them.
Paradox stuff is on sale every other week anyway, if you're paying more than five bucks a pop for them you're doing it wrong.
Paradox stuff is on sale every other week anyway, if you're paying more than five bucks a pop for them you're doing it wrong.
CertifiedFP
Member
Yes? And none of them have really answered how these changes are going to affect autocracies. Everything about 1.5 seems heavily biased towards Democracies, the new Factions system included.
Frozenprince
Banned
The new slave factions are likely autocracy based.
We've just updated to version 0.9 of the Star Trek New Horizons mod.
Tonnes of changes, such as a complete revamp of utilities and weapons; new ships for Andorians, Tellarites, Cardassians, Xindi, Undine and Dominion; better German and French localisation; Obsidian Order espionage system (basically a clone of our existing Tal Shiar system); Rigellian and Cheronite (half black / half white from Original Series) portraits... lots of cool changes.
Anyway, who doesn't like glamour shots?
Dominion War re-made:
From Hell's heart I stab at thee...
If you don't see 0.9 on the new game menu it means that Steam hasn't gotten around to giving you the latest yet...
Tonnes of changes, such as a complete revamp of utilities and weapons; new ships for Andorians, Tellarites, Cardassians, Xindi, Undine and Dominion; better German and French localisation; Obsidian Order espionage system (basically a clone of our existing Tal Shiar system); Rigellian and Cheronite (half black / half white from Original Series) portraits... lots of cool changes.
Anyway, who doesn't like glamour shots?
Dominion War re-made:
From Hell's heart I stab at thee...
That was the intention - though as ever once players find a winning combo it's a game of whack-a-mole... We've made some changes to how weapons work and which ships get which utility types. Should be a lot more diversity now.
Basically weapons are broken into:
And utilities into:
Basically weapons are broken into:
- Small Beam (old S)
- Medium Beam (old M)
- Small Cannon (old L)
- Large Cannon (old XL)
- Small Torpedo (old PD)
- Large Torpedo (old T)
And utilities into:
- Tactical
- Engineering
- Science
- Support
TheVoidDragon
Member
Anyone know what the cheapest place to get the Leviathan DLC is? It's £5.49 on the Paradox site which is a bit much.
DiscoShark
Banned
Yeah I never saw the Leviathan DLC as worth it for the price they were asking. I'll wait for Utopia and just get Leviathans when it hits 75% off or something down the line.
TheVoidDragon
Member
I feel the same way about Utopia from what we've been told it contains. They're nice additions, but not enough content for the price.
If Leviathan and Utopia had been combined into one pack for £7.50, then I'd say there was enough content to justify the price.