NYT: Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence

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Zaph said:
I think this is a very naive take. Flynn may be careless and gullible (going by his past twitter account), but the Russian Ambassador isn't, he knew the phones were bugged. He's not going to suggest some mustache twirling quid-pro-quo, real life is more subtle than that. Just the mere mention of the sanctions sets a clear tone. And I guarantee it wasn't met with a furious response from Flynn saying he can't discuss that then hanging up.

Also, if it was as "silly" as you suggest, and just an oversight as he went from one official position to another, he wouldn't have lied about it repeated to his bosses.
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But the new administration are within their right to discuss lifting sanctions. He could have made that call last week, and it wouldn't have caused this kind of issue. The argument here is that a private citizen shouldn't have spoken to the ambassador. But that in itself is a naive interpretation of who Flynn was at that point.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
You know what this shit is like?

A Clancy novel. Maybe a new book. Call it

'Red Storm Warning'

Russia setting American foreign policy by proxy and sowing chaos among the country's citizenry, getting them to fight each other. Using it all as a distraction/cover to take over desired territories and maximize its influence.
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Can we make a "What would you name the Trump Clancy novel title?" thread? lol

My entry:

GOLD STREAM IN RED RIVER
 
Can that give the appearance that Trump aides were colluding with Putin? Yes. Does it mean that they knowingly did so? No. As Paul Manafort said recently, "These people don't wear FSB badges."
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"We were not only accidentally working with Russian spies!"

Not good enough, not nearly good enough.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
Or just, put simply, make contact with an incoming administration and create "relationships". They sent diplomats and spies to do so.
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Im not talking specifically about Flynn, more about Russia's purpose for doing all this.

Russia was going to make a shit ton of money from a Trump administration. For instance Hillary backed sanctions which blocked a $500 billion oil deal between Russia and Exxon.

C1y8GKkUUAAQr4r.jpg
 
Vagabundo said:
Fox throwing Trump under the bus? Fox gearing up for President Pence. Trying to keep him clean, maybe.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...in-dark-about-flynns-russian-phone-calls.html
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I wouldn't say that. More like they're simply echoing the facts as they're now understood. Pence was kept in the dark for two weeks. He was cheesed when the Washington Post broke the story that he had been deceived. He wanted Flynn to apologize.

He then called Flynn at Mar-a-Lago with Priebus and McGahn to assess where he stood. They came away from the conversation unimpressed and poised to ask Flynn for his resignation. Bannon got word from his contacts at the White House that this was going to blow up and he decided to "own the messaging" himself by relaying to Flynn on the plane ride back that he should make the right decision and resign.

Flynn tabled his resignation even though Trump wanted to keep his loyal soldier around and Bannon elected to run a smear campaign on Priebus with Breitbart because he was instrumental in forcing the resignation through. Pence has largely been keeping himself clean... doesn't need a Fox News assist on this point.
 
sc0la said:
It was too late to do anything.

I really wish I knew what Obama wrote in his note he left Trump now.

tumblr_lxjpysPOwd1r06yaq.gif
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Obama already laid his trap with the Russia sanctions. That was a move clearly intended to allow Trump's team to incriminate themselves. No doubt he pulled a few other tricks before he left the White House. No wonder the dude looks so at ease right now.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
But the new administration are within their right to discuss lifting sanctions.He could have made that call last week, and it wouldn't have caused this kind of issue. The argument here is that a private citizen shouldn't have spoken to the ambassador. But that in itself is a naive interpretation of who Flynn was at that point.
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I should know better than to get involved with a classic case of Meus Renaissance contrarianism...but this isn't the argument.

I am not even sure it is the main part of the argument.

The deeper we dig, the more we learn about mistruths and cover ups. You say they are within their rights to talk about sanctions...if you look at that as a purely isolated incident...maybe. But the key issue becomes that the administration is lying, consistently, about it's relationship with Russia.

And they don't appear willing to either explain themselves or provide any answers or clarifications.

So people want to know...what else are we not being told. It's a legitimate question and cause for concern.
 
It's beginning to look a lot like treason
Throughout the cabinet
Take a look in the house on Penn
Listening to those men
Pass out the blame to some unlucky schmo

It's beginning to look a lot like treason
Ploys on senate floor
But the sickening thing to see,
Is the tweets that will be
Sent out 'round four
 
mclem said:
It's beginning to look a lot like treason
Throughout the cabinet
Take a look in the house on Penn
Listening to those men
Pass out the blame to some unlucky schmo

It's beginning to look a lot like treason
Ploys on senate floor
But the sickening thing to see,
Is the tweets that will be
Sent out 'round four
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lol. I read it while singing
 
UberTag said:
I wouldn't say that. More like they're simply echoing the facts as they're now understood. Pence was kept in the dark for two weeks. He was cheesed when the Washington Post broke the story that he had been deceived. He wanted Flynn to apologize.

He then called Flynn at Mar-a-Lago with Priebus and McGahn to assess where he stood. They came away from the conversation unimpressed and poised to ask Flynn for his resignation. Bannon got word from his contacts at the White House that this was going to blow up and he decided to "own the messaging" himself by relaying to Flynn on the plane ride back that he should make the right decision and resign.

Flynn tabled his resignation even though Trump wanted to keep his loyal soldier around and Bannon elected to run a smear campaign on Priebus with Breitbart because he was instrumental in forcing the resignation through. Pence has largely been keeping himself clean... doesn't need a Fox News assist on this point.
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I think I'm more surprised at fox simply layout out the fact rather than trying to spin it for their audience. I suppose I always assume they have an ulterior motive.
 
GAF A60-Rim A said:
Huh? It's like 5am lol
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...true

As much as I hate the defeatist thing, they have been able to weasel themselves out of so much. There's just so much noise happening that I think the impact of the situation has worn off. There's only one thing that will guarantee impeachment...


#ReleaseThePPTape
 
I know I am shouting into an echo chamber and all of us knew this but:

Trump is the biggest disgrace to the USA I have seen in my lifetime. I know people probably do not care but the damage he has done to the country's reputation and to the bilateral relations, dios mio
 
I hope for some kind of Revenge of the Sith showdown, you know with Trump being cornered in the Oval Office by the Park Rangers, and Trump revealing he is a Sith Lord.
 
Fritz said:
I know I am shouting into an echo chamber and all of us knew this but:

Trump is the biggest disgrace to the USA I have seen in my lifetime. I know people probably do not care but the damage he has done to the country's reputation and to the bilateral relations, dios mio
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What's "Sad!" is that Trump is SOOO delusional and so out of touch with reality that he won't *feel bad* about resignation/impeachment because he will still think and will always think he was doing a good job

If he is ousted, I want him to feel bad about it...
 
Dany said:
It's not even 6am on the west coast. This broke late at night.
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I've been listening to BBC/NPR all night and BBC is going hard on it. It's now taking up 1/3 of each hour probably. I imagine it to be the topic of every talk show considering it broke around 8 pm EST.
 
Seventy70 said:
I feel like this thing is already starting to cool off, but we'll see.
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There are two big takeaways from yesterday.

First is that the Trump administration insisted there were no contacts with Russian Intelligence during the campaign. Steele's dossier inferred that there were but they've denied them constantly. Now we have proof that they were lying and that there are transcripts floating around. The White House will either defend themselves here or ramp up their rhetoric that the IC has an agenda against them and that the source of these leaks must be quashed - essentially deflecting the issue towards the leaks and away from the conduct of Flynn, Manafort, Page and anyone else that was compromised.

The other takeaway is that CNN has a list of names that were closely connected to Trump during the campaign that they've challenged the White House to come clean about or - presumably - they will leak these names themselves.

There are no smoking guns here which is why a "cool off" period along with further denials should be expected. This administration will lie unequivocally unless they are challenged with the truth... at which point they'll deflect and just lie to their base. The smoking gun is likely going to be proof of a money trail in exchange for the DNC hacks or Trump's Kompromat tape and until we get either one of those this administration will continue to deny, deny, deny.
 
neurosisxeno said:
I've been listening to BBC/NPR all night and BBC is going hard on it. It's now taking up 1/3 of each hour probably. I imagine it to be the topic of every talk show considering it broke around 8 pm EST.
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Has anyone discussed whether the leak was probably deliberately (debatably) perfectly timed?

Leak it around 9ish, after the masses have tuned out but politically savvy people and insiders are still up, frantically paying attention on 6-packs of red bull, allowing everyone the appropriate time to thoroughly analyse and piece together all the information to make the morning papers/news most effective?
 
neurosisxeno said:
I've been listening to BBC/NPR all night and BBC is going hard on it. It's now taking up 1/3 of each hour probably. I imagine it to be the topic of every talk show considering it broke around 8 pm EST.
Click to expand...

I really hope. It should be plastered everywhere and everyone should be talking about it. I fear that it'll be a sort of "business as usual" situation. They should put down the dog shows and shit for a day.
UberTag said:
There are two big takeaways from yesterday.

First is that the Trump administration insisted there were no contacts with Russian Intelligence during the campaign. Steele's dossier inferred that there were but they've denied them constantly. Now we have proof that they were lying and that there are transcripts floating around. The White House will either defend themselves here or ramp up their rhetoric that the IC has an agenda against them and that the source of these leaks must be quashed - essentially deflecting the issue towards the leaks and away from the conduct of Flynn, Manafort, Page and anyone else that was compromised.

The other takeaway is that CNN has a list of names that were closely connected to Trump during the campaign that they've challenged the White House to come clean about or - presumably - they will leak these names themselves.

There are no smoking guns here which is why a "cool off" period along with further denials should be expected. This administration will lie unequivocally unless they are challenged with the truth... at which point they'll deflect and just lie to their base. The smoking gun is likely going to be proof of a money trail in exchange for the DNC hacks or Trump's Kompromat tape and until we get either one of those this administration will continue to deny, deny, deny.
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Good points. I guess the good news is that a month in, we can be very confident of an impeachment in the future. I really can't see it going any other way. 4 more years of this?! No way.
 
Have there been developments post OP? I feel like we would need an actual recording, if not a number of them, to really threaten Trump's cabinet. Frankly, I didn't expect them to fire Flynn, since when are Trump and his team galled by... well, by anything?
 
Meus Renaissance said:
But the new administration are within their right to discuss lifting sanctions. He could have made that call last week, and it wouldn't have caused this kind of issue.
Click to expand...

You are kidding me right

He didn't make that call last week, what good is your hypothetical?

Undermining the actions of the Obama administration to provide comfort to a foreign hostile actor was T R E A S O N
 
neoanarch said:
Holy fuck this headline from Fox news




Yes the media made him commit treason of course, master plan foiled.
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So, the media is what forced out Flynn, but at the same time, the Trump Admin says that they were going to force out Flynn because of trust issues, anyway. Which is it? Can't be both.
 
Steel said:
So, the media is what forced out Flynn, but at the same time, the Trump Admin says that they were going to force out Flynn because of trust issues, anyway. Which is it? Can't be both.
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It can be both because the Trump team has a different excuse prepared depending on their audience.

Media conspiracy forcing the IC to leak stuff without legitimacy? That's the excuse for Trump's base and the alt-right Breitbart nutters.

They were going to force out Flynn themselves because of trust issues and because he lied to Vice President Pence? That's the excuse for the mainstream press and their moderate voters.

See... it can work both ways. In reality, both stances are bullshit. Especially the second one because Trump knew for weeks and did nothing.
 
Donald declared war against people whose job it is to find dirt on people. Attaboy.

He dun goof'd. The election was rigged, and he'll eventually pay for the consequences. Like I've said numerous times, there is no chance this buffon will complete his presidency in full.
 
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