Bannon told German envoy he views EU as flawed construct, wants per nation relations
- Thread starter chadskin
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PJV3
Member
Aye, let's just deal with the coastal bits of it in future.
It's a mess because the economic union binds them together in certain things, but leaves them enough rope to hang themselves in others. A proper post-nationalistic federalist Europe is the only way for the European continent to remain relevant to world affairs in the future.
Nationalistic drivel will just throw away all accomplishments of the later half of the 20th century and effectively kick us all in the balls. But at least we would all feel secure in our poor nationalistic bubbles (see post-Brexit UK). So that's at least something.
Yep.
...until shit hits the wall again and millions die.
ding ding ding
SerTapTap
Member
Oh wow the guy who hopes for an apocalyptic war to change the world wants nations to reduce ties to each other. I'm really surprised and sure he has a valid reason based on data for this.
Nah, lack of patriotism in the left seems partially responsible for the huge failure of enthusiasm and voting this year. Seeing flags at liberal protests instead of burning ones is one of the best things I've seen about this resistance. You should love your country and want to improve it. People who hate their country because of it's flaws stop caring and let evil people have their way.
Opposing Trump is one of the most patriotic things you can do. America needs patriots.
Nah, lack of patriotism in the left seems partially responsible for the huge failure of enthusiasm and voting this year. Seeing flags at liberal protests instead of burning ones is one of the best things I've seen about this resistance. You should love your country and want to improve it. People who hate their country because of it's flaws stop caring and let evil people have their way.
Opposing Trump is one of the most patriotic things you can do. America needs patriots.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Well he sees nationalistic populist movements as the way forward. If you agree with that then you're probably on the wrong side of history already.
obijkenobi
Member
At any point is Pence going to rebel? He must be tired of being embarassrd in public right?
He is just waiting for that impeachment.
SolidusDave
Member
I don't think your idea of patriotism is the same as most of your country men. It almost always devolves into us vs them due to tribalism.
Voter turnout wasn't really different than in any other year. It's been around 50% despite the disturbing amount of patriotism in the USA. Meanwhile a country like Germany, in which patriotism is basically seen as evil outside of big sport events has a voter turnout of 70%. And that's actually a big decrease to some decade ago when patriotism was even more looked down upon.
TheOnionKnight
Banned
The EU is already broken.
In the East you got semi-dictatorships that are BFF's with Russia.
In the South you have poverty and unemployment, which many Italians, Spaniards and Greek blame on the Euro/Germany/the EU in general.
Both of those regions are easy targets.
Now it's all about the Western/Northern EU. And it's not looking good. UK already on their way out, France/Holland might be next if Le Pen/Wilders come to power.
Russia and the USA are obviously meddling, but much of the "breaking apart" has come from within the EU and the way it was set up.
I'm German (biggest benefactor of the EU) and people here still bitch about the EU all day. For regular people, the benefits have just not become apparent.
This so much! The way certain governments and the right-wing media are using the EU as scapegoat for everything going wrong in their own country is really shameful. It's in the interest of all Europeans that our national governments reduce their influence over the EU, give up more power and sovereignty and establish a system in which the EU has its own, democratic elected government that protects the interests of all Europeans. Too bad so many people are too brainwashed/ nationalistic to see that.
Patriotism is used as propaganda tool in the US. You can basically get away with anything you want, if you present yourself as patriot and declare your way the patriotic way. Right-wing media and Republicans have used this tool extensively in the past. American patriotism is toxic and responsible for the ongoing racism and upcoming nationalism in the US. How many people still think the US is the greatest country in the world? How often is this thinking the basis to shut down critics/ critical thinking and tell others they should leave the country, if they don't like it there? To patriots, criticising the US is a personal matter and basically the same as an insult.
If anything, you need LESS patriotism and more and better education. Be critical of your past and teach your children to be critical of their own countries doing.
Byakuya769
Member
The United States governance is fundamentally flawed, it's preferable for countries to deal with each state in a bilateral manner.
Examples?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'll have you know that Spain is massively and consistently pro-EU despite the crisis. Italy less so, but still firmly there. Your perspective is way too pesimistic.
Also, your mention about Eastern EU being bff with Russia is pure lunacy. The Visegrad Group has been antsy about Putin for a good while and they are pressing for even more NATO support.
We may bitch, but we are massivly pro EU in every survey.
This simply isn't true. Infact the biggest eastern european country has recently called for EU nukes to fight off russia
There might be a financial crisis down there but EU approval is mostly up since brexit.
EU approval for the general EU area is at 62%. That's not sounding like the EU is massively unpopular.
More on that people like to complain about Germany in the EU but the EU is actually helping keeping german domination in place
Without the EU germany domination over european states will grow even bigger.
radios shipping overview
Member
I really wish the guy in charge of our foreign policy had a little more insight than a college freshman
DarthMasta
Member
Everyone wants more EU, just not at the expense of their own country, so, it'll always be not enough...
And I'd guess EU politicos were hoping the US administration's position was just for show, but no such luck...
And I'd guess EU politicos were hoping the US administration's position was just for show, but no such luck...
Well the US would have much more bargaining power against any single European country than it would against the EU as a whole. So sure, Steve, it's nice to want things?
On a similar note, I think the USA is a flawed construct and we should have bilateral agreements with individual states.
On a similar note, I think the USA is a flawed construct and we should have bilateral agreements with individual states.
gutter_trash
Banned
The EU should just ignore Trump and just talk directly to Pence, Mattis, Haley and Tillerson instead
Diligitamize this Putin Puppet
Diligitamize this Putin Puppet
gutter_trash
Banned
China isn't a friendly force for good.
They are bargain bin hunters buying out things after disaster hits
SatelliteOfLove
Member
That summit last week, more grownups in the administration, and the Milo fallout hopefully are both forcing a spotlight on his auto-inspiring worldview and flush him and his degenerates out of the shadows to do their dirty work where itll be for all to see as it truly is.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
In the complete absence of nationalism, you often see citizens more strongly identifying along ethnic, religious, or racial lines, and willing to fight and die along those lines, even against their own countrymen.
Mild nationalism can work to reduce sectarian tension if there is a shared sense of belonging and ownership.
Skellig Gra
Member
No, not really. Nothing is perfect so claiming something is a "flawed construct" is stating the obvious. It is no way beneficial for the US to deal with the individual countries directly because a lot of them won't even bother dealing with us on their own. Which is probably want Bannon wants anyway.
I mean bitching about Europe and politics, well about everything is our favourite national sport. Even more beloved than football
Frankfurter
Member
The good thing about Bannon is that he is basically a comicbook villain. He is so obviously evil and anti-Europe that most of society will see his comments and actually gather around the EU.
Rolodzeo
Member
Wtf am I reading? Spain is as pro-EU as it can get.
Spaced Harrier
Member
#Notourally
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The EU is flawed, but it is on the whole a fantastic idea that needs to be improved, not destroyed. Bannon is a dumbass.
Bannon's the President. Why wouldn't he be?
Calm waterfall
Banned
Fuck off Bannon.
Chinese? What evidence shows that China is actively trying to break up the EU?
Chinese? What evidence shows that China is actively trying to break up the EU?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
China is not trying to break up the EU, but likes to establish bilateral relations when/where possible since dealing with the EU as a whole is not nearly as advantageous. Bannon obviously takes this position to the extreme.
Complaining about your government is a right of any free nation, so it's nothing out of the ordinary. Many Americans complain about their government, about their president, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean they want the whole thing torn apart.
This about sums it up. Trump and Bannon want less powerful foreign states, no matter whether it has a good or bad effect overall, because it means they can do as they please.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Bannon's theories about world order are juvenile. Don't mistake his skill in gloming onto a WH-bound useful idiot as currency that his ideas are in any way salient. This is a stubborn and unsophisticate worldview.
Trump made me more appreciative of the EU. Please give me my boring bureaucrats who provide stability and adult leadership.
I just wish we could finally push reform through the EU to grasp our hidden potential as a collective of developed, resourceful nations, and that we somehow figure out how to solve the economic malaise in the south that has been dragging along.
I just wish we could finally push reform through the EU to grasp our hidden potential as a collective of developed, resourceful nations, and that we somehow figure out how to solve the economic malaise in the south that has been dragging along.
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