wapplew
Member
Nah, GAF is the last place MS will look for advice, those twitter with M sign get the priority.
They'll be fine, always bet against GAF.
What does Microsoft need to do to make Xbox successful again?
- Thread starter Montresor
- Start date
Nah, GAF is the last place MS will look for advice, those twitter with M sign get the priority.
They'll be fine, always bet against GAF.
As someone who owns an Xbox One but still ends up gaming on my PS4 twenty times as much, it really does all come down to the exclusive games. I'm relatively content with the other aspects of the Xbox brand, though even with the latest improvements I still find the OS irritatingly sluggish at times.
As someone with a fairly substantial backlog that I tend to ignore in favour of whatever multiplayer game I'm obsessed with at any given point in time, Microsoft need to deliver exclusives that really stand out, either in genre or in quality. There are simply far too many great games this generation for me to bother with ones which seem merely good, like Sunset Overdrive or Quantum Break, and I feel significant franchise fatigue with each of their pillar franchises - Halo, Forza, and Gears of War. The PlayStation 4 is my primary console, but even if it wasn't, games like Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, and Horizon would get me to turn on the box. Games like Zelda, Smash, Splatoon, and Mario Kart get me to turn on the Wii U. Microsoft simply haven't put out a game this generation that sits alongside any of those titles, in my opinion. They have to fix that.
I don't personally care if I ever play another Halo or Gears game. I used to care about both franchises, but we're closing on ten years since either franchise has been at its best. That Microsoft's primary focus is still on these two franchises (plus Forza) irritates me no end. It's such a blatant example of how being risk-averse with their lineup is damaging their brand. What they're doing with Rare is more promising. I think Sea of Thieves is extremely promising, and incredibly ambitious, but I have a nagging feeling that Microsoft are going to poison it somehow. Microsoft also have got to be more careful with the way they go about getting third parties to develop their exclusives. Too many games have been sent out to die which isn't good for Microsoft, the developers, or the gamers. It's always really hard to know exactly why things have gone wrong with these games, but the fact that so many of these third party games have gone awry in one way or another suggests Microsoft are at least a significant part of the problem.
Halo Wars 2 is just the latest example of third party mishandling from Microsoft. Everything about the way the game works implies that Creative Assembly had remarkably little creative freedom, and that instead 343i were making most of the decisions. It has an unremarkable campaign by all accounts, and the general RTS structure is practically a copy-paste of the Halo Wars 1 gameplay. Almost every single change to the way the game works seems to be for the worse. They've reduced the differences between the two civilizations to the point where the Covenant and UNSC feel almost identical. They've massively expanded the Leader Powers features to the point where they feel totally overpowering and laughably gamebreaking in many scenarios. Of course, they also decided to add a casual-friendly Clash Royale 2, pay-to-win mode on top.
If Microsoft had gone to Creative Assembly, and asked them to make Halo Wars 2, and then gave them some freedom, I think there's a solid chance Creative would have come up with something really interesting. Instead we've got a poor copy of the original, and 343i, experts in making poor copies of other people's games, are surely the reason why.
As someone with a fairly substantial backlog that I tend to ignore in favour of whatever multiplayer game I'm obsessed with at any given point in time, Microsoft need to deliver exclusives that really stand out, either in genre or in quality. There are simply far too many great games this generation for me to bother with ones which seem merely good, like Sunset Overdrive or Quantum Break, and I feel significant franchise fatigue with each of their pillar franchises - Halo, Forza, and Gears of War. The PlayStation 4 is my primary console, but even if it wasn't, games like Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, and Horizon would get me to turn on the box. Games like Zelda, Smash, Splatoon, and Mario Kart get me to turn on the Wii U. Microsoft simply haven't put out a game this generation that sits alongside any of those titles, in my opinion. They have to fix that.
I don't personally care if I ever play another Halo or Gears game. I used to care about both franchises, but we're closing on ten years since either franchise has been at its best. That Microsoft's primary focus is still on these two franchises (plus Forza) irritates me no end. It's such a blatant example of how being risk-averse with their lineup is damaging their brand. What they're doing with Rare is more promising. I think Sea of Thieves is extremely promising, and incredibly ambitious, but I have a nagging feeling that Microsoft are going to poison it somehow. Microsoft also have got to be more careful with the way they go about getting third parties to develop their exclusives. Too many games have been sent out to die which isn't good for Microsoft, the developers, or the gamers. It's always really hard to know exactly why things have gone wrong with these games, but the fact that so many of these third party games have gone awry in one way or another suggests Microsoft are at least a significant part of the problem.
Halo Wars 2 is just the latest example of third party mishandling from Microsoft. Everything about the way the game works implies that Creative Assembly had remarkably little creative freedom, and that instead 343i were making most of the decisions. It has an unremarkable campaign by all accounts, and the general RTS structure is practically a copy-paste of the Halo Wars 1 gameplay. Almost every single change to the way the game works seems to be for the worse. They've reduced the differences between the two civilizations to the point where the Covenant and UNSC feel almost identical. They've massively expanded the Leader Powers features to the point where they feel totally overpowering and laughably gamebreaking in many scenarios. Of course, they also decided to add a casual-friendly Clash Royale 2, pay-to-win mode on top.
If Microsoft had gone to Creative Assembly, and asked them to make Halo Wars 2, and then gave them some freedom, I think there's a solid chance Creative would have come up with something really interesting. Instead we've got a poor copy of the original, and 343i, experts in making poor copies of other people's games, are surely the reason why.
Microsoft mostly needs to build up its exclusive first party content.
I didn't think the Switch would be selling so well, but Nintendo had Zelda launching on it. Microsoft also will need have a quality exclusive game to launch with Scorpio to have a successful launch.
The main message coming from E3 needs to be that there are several exclusive quality games coming to Microsoft's platforms (Xbox, Scorpio, Windows 10) instead of "Scorpio will be the most powerful 4K console in the world."
I didn't think the Switch would be selling so well, but Nintendo had Zelda launching on it. Microsoft also will need have a quality exclusive game to launch with Scorpio to have a successful launch.
The main message coming from E3 needs to be that there are several exclusive quality games coming to Microsoft's platforms (Xbox, Scorpio, Windows 10) instead of "Scorpio will be the most powerful 4K console in the world."
Crayon
Member
I think we could essentially make the Dreamcast 2. Two years of hardcore darling exclusives leading to an abrupt bankruptcy. And then our work is done and everyone loves us for years and years.
MilkyJoe
Member
Yep, single player focused, games. When Scorpio drops it'll be the complete package for everything else.
This is a non issue.
To be fair, Microsoft never said all future exclusives would be on Play Anywhere - only the games they showed at last year's E3. But it'll still be a bad look if Microsft withholds any exclusive from PC. A lot of people will be frustrated.
Because a huge drove of people decided not to be a Xbox in year 4 because in the second half of year 3 into the gen MS announced some games are going to be on PC with cross-buy of their first party exclusives and there hasn't been evidence of an "explosion" of sales from these PC gamers....-_-
iavi said:
Basically.
Quit abandoning titles that don't sell 11 billion copies would be a good start. Sunset Overdrive should have had a sequel by now. Quit closing studios. MS actually had a pretty respectable stable of first party studios once upon a time. Not great but still fairly good. Most importantly though I feel like the Xbox division operating with one armed tied behind their backs because the higher ups at MS don't give too much of a shit about video games.
Compelling singleplayer experiences that are not first person shooters. Action RPGs, JRPGs, turn based RPGs, platformers, collectathons, metroidvanias, whatever.
Larger teams dedicated to post-launch support, which means giving developers more money instead of having them pull from other teams. Various builds of Halo 5 have been outright broken with no patch for upwards of two months because that's their patch schedule. Nevermind the fact that the issues were typically pervasive, and that this is their flagship franchise. There have also been horrific balancing issues that weren't resolved until after 343i had a community dev day and got their shit pushed in by hyper broken strats, signalling that they don't actually test the content they launch. Halo 5: Forge for Windows 10 is also fundamentally broken and 343i has stated that they have no plans to further patch it.
More games that aren't developed to scratch a marketing itch.
Games with community-based sharing mechanics, such as Mario Maker or Little Big Planet
Larger teams dedicated to post-launch support, which means giving developers more money instead of having them pull from other teams. Various builds of Halo 5 have been outright broken with no patch for upwards of two months because that's their patch schedule. Nevermind the fact that the issues were typically pervasive, and that this is their flagship franchise. There have also been horrific balancing issues that weren't resolved until after 343i had a community dev day and got their shit pushed in by hyper broken strats, signalling that they don't actually test the content they launch. Halo 5: Forge for Windows 10 is also fundamentally broken and 343i has stated that they have no plans to further patch it.
More games that aren't developed to scratch a marketing itch.
Games with community-based sharing mechanics, such as Mario Maker or Little Big Planet
pretty done
Member
That's because the port quality is almost always shit (Forza Horizon 3, Quantum Break, ReCore) and on top of that the Windows 10 store is garbage. They might as well not even be putting their games on PC at this point.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
Unless there's a giant shift in MS management in the future on how they perceive the Xbox division, I don't really envision this happening ever. Xbox ever since the initial fallout with the Xbox One launch feels as if they're just trying to make do with the modest cash reserves they've been given from MS. Compared to PlayStation's relationship with Sony, MS don't seem to dedicate as much free reign for the Xbox division in terms of direction and resources.
This post makes me think I should have titled my thread differently: "How to make Xbox very successful again" instead of "great again". Because I think Xbox is great - they are just failing tremendously when it comes to mindshare and overall popularity. Because I whole-heartedly 100% reject this idea that Sony's exclusives this gen are far and away better than Microsoft's. To me, Forza Horizon 3, Quantum Break, D4, and Sunset Overdrive are among the best games ever made. You bet your ass those deserve to stand alongside Uncharted 4 and Bloodborne.
I'd even argue Gears of War 4 deserves that distinction.
But alas, Microsoft's mindshare continues to slip. And I don't think it's due to the quality of the games their releasing. I think it comes down to some franchise fatigue but moreso, a failure to cultivate Japanese 3rd party games, and in general missing out on Japanese games and indie games that SHOULD be multiplatform, but are for one reason or another exclusive.
Which brings me back to why is bringing those games to PC even a point to make against "MS shouldn't bring their games to PC". If the games on PC are "shit ports" (as you state), why would people not buy the console if it gives them the experience that they want?
That whole PC argument is stupid.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
I believe they should release many quality video games
Bitch Pudding
Member
Offer the fastest console at a super competitive price by getting rid of any kind of non-gaming related bullshit.
Heavily invest in 1st party studios and 3rd party games (timed-exclusives and marketing deals).
Let your established studios create new IPs. Every single one of them.
Do not offer your 1st party games on any other platform.
In short, make your platform the best one to play videogames. Which it isn't right now.
Heavily invest in 1st party studios and 3rd party games (timed-exclusives and marketing deals).
Let your established studios create new IPs. Every single one of them.
Do not offer your 1st party games on any other platform.
In short, make your platform the best one to play videogames. Which it isn't right now.
Hugh Swank
Member
Amen brother!
IncognitoPanda
Member
Get outta here!
I see.
I think you're going to really struggle with this discussion if your premise is that Microsoft's exclusives are amazing, but that no-one can see it.
Mostlypainless
Member
They should offer a great trade-in program for the Scorpio. Also, they should buy a bunch of Sega's old IP ; then they should let indie developers use these IP for free on the Xbox.
facetheslayer92
Member
Ok yea after looking at the list of owned IP, it's just yikes. Many of those studios are gone/not making games, so yea Phil Spencer should write a large check and open some studios to create new IP. Some new first party games to nicely complement Halo, Gears, Forza, State of Decay, and Crackdown would be nice. Third party exclusives are a stretch I feel like without the install base/ Japanese audience.
pixelation
Member
More (way more) first party content, new IP's, more varied output, don't cancel games in development.
New IP's that have variety, mixture of triple A, mid tier budget and indie. You cant rely on Halo,Gears, and fprza and make people go 'WOW'
More 3rd party exclusives
More japenese games
Also make the UI and the speed of the UI not fucking shit
Also fix Halo and Gears.
More 3rd party exclusives
More japenese games
Also make the UI and the speed of the UI not fucking shit
Also fix Halo and Gears.
BigEmil
Junior Member
Well i know a few people and me included who was interested in buying an Xbox one in the future but seeing as more of their exclusives i wanted to buy an Xbox for is gone to PC, this just pushed more people to just upgrade PC and just settle with that in turn saving me some money and no need to pay Xbox live and can play multiplayer free on top too.
Dash_Riprock
Member
People expecting the Scorpio to magically erase the last 4 years and put Xbox back on top are setting themselves up for disappointment.
SirNinja
Member
Pretty much this. And also don't rely so much on Halo/Gears/etc. They're still good games obviously, but they just simply aren't the megaton hits they used to be.
pretty done
Member
Because the console they offer isn't good enough for most PC gamer's standards. On top of that there's only a handful of games they couldn't play on a PS4 or PC anyway.
Hugh Swank
Member
The original question you asked was, "Why would bnyone buy a xbox over a pc these days?". The reasons I gave you are pretty legit IMO. Basically cost & personal preference.
As far as MS putting Xbox games on PC, I don't believe it hurts their console business at all. Sure, you're going to have a few people decided to buy or build a PC instead of buying an Xbox, but there is always going to be a large percentage of gamers who simply prefer playing on consoles, period.
At this point, I just find the "Buy a PC instead of Xbox" argument, to be pure fanboy rhetoric.
hydrophilic attack
Member
The notion of a good game not selling well and not being popular is not foreign or new. You reject that premise?
I understand why Xbox is trailing worldwide - it's because their first-party games do not have the variety that Sony has. And the library in general on PS4 is much more varied (especially with respect to indie games and Japanese games).
It's not such an outrageous claim to say "Their games are pretty good, and still not selling, due to franchise fatigue and lack of variety".
Call Me A Hero
Member
- Acquire/establish more first party studios
- Make more new IPs (especially Japanese, e.g. high quality jrpgs)
- Get better third party support (especially Japanese) in order to avoid them turning into PlayStation exclusives (e.g. Tales, Digimon, Kingdom Hearts HD, FF12 HD, etc.)
- Make sequels to the popular and most loved last generation exclusives (e.g. Lost Odyssey 2, Blue Dragon 2, Alan Wake 2)
- Revive some older IPs (both first party and third party) and make them exclusive (e.g. Battletoads, Banjo, Bloody Roar, Alundra)
- Better sales and Deals-with-Gold because they are really terrible and the number of titles on sale are very limited
Mass Effect
Member
Jonneh3003
Banned
Project Scorpio isn't the answer for sure, they can make the Xbox One infinitely more powerful but it still wouldn't have Japanese games and unique first party support. I want more games like Quantum Break, Ori and Recore.
In the 360 era, their dominance came from leveraging their network engineers to build Xbox Live. Sony took years to catch up.
What can they do that's similar this time? The power of the cloud.
Seriously.
Microsoft is the second-biggest cloud computing company in the world, and I don't think that will change anytime soon. It's an advantage Sony can't easily match, if at all.
Microsoft is, first and foremost, an engineering company. Not an entertainment company. They'll never match Sony or Nintendo in terms of exclusive IPs, and it's foolish to even try. At the end of the day, gamers value third-party titles more anyway.
What can they do that's similar this time? The power of the cloud.
Seriously.
Microsoft is the second-biggest cloud computing company in the world, and I don't think that will change anytime soon. It's an advantage Sony can't easily match, if at all.
Microsoft is, first and foremost, an engineering company. Not an entertainment company. They'll never match Sony or Nintendo in terms of exclusive IPs, and it's foolish to even try. At the end of the day, gamers value third-party titles more anyway.
If you're talking about great as in successful, Xbox only really has two major weaknesses:
1) First party.
2) It's less popular in continental Europe and Asia.
On first party and IPs, I'd like to say I don't think Microsoft is likely to do anything that focuses heavily or exclusively on singleplayer. MS seems to be all about Games As A Service, and business-wise it makes sense. Zelda may be a critically acclaimed game and Horizon is pretty popular, but it's still questionable how much money games like that make compared to something with constantly updating multiplayer and microtransactions. I think Perfect Dark is unlikely firstly because there is a ridiculous amount of competition in FPSs right now, so much that Halo can't even really handle it. Secondly it's because I don't think MS could get what the original appeal of Perfect Dark was. The N64 game was basically the mechanics of GoldenEye taken into a sci-fi setting. If you go back and compare those two games to modern shooters, they actually have a little bit more in common with Dishonored than Halo. They're games about spies interacting with open-ended levels. The multiplayer? You'd run into the FPS competition problem again. Hao RPG? Again, Microsoft just isn't about that, otherwise we'd probably already have Fable 4. Sea of Thieves is more indicative of what kind of first party stuff MS is interested in. If it were to do more I imagine it being something more like a sports game or possibly even an MMO.
Games like Nier, Yakuza 0, Nioh, and Gravity Rush look like a great lineup when they all come out back-to-back but individually they're all pretty niche. I guess that's one problem Microsoft has -- the mid-tier developers aren't willing to spend the resources to port to Xbox. The big Japanese games like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and Resident Evil warrant it, but the stuff that doesn't need to sell five million copies sees fit to stay on one console, and they pick PlayStation.
This is a good point, and explains MS's "service first" approach. It's been trying to create the better platform and to some extent it still has the better platform, just not necessarily the library of software that appeals the most to certain people.
1) First party.
2) It's less popular in continental Europe and Asia.
On first party and IPs, I'd like to say I don't think Microsoft is likely to do anything that focuses heavily or exclusively on singleplayer. MS seems to be all about Games As A Service, and business-wise it makes sense. Zelda may be a critically acclaimed game and Horizon is pretty popular, but it's still questionable how much money games like that make compared to something with constantly updating multiplayer and microtransactions. I think Perfect Dark is unlikely firstly because there is a ridiculous amount of competition in FPSs right now, so much that Halo can't even really handle it. Secondly it's because I don't think MS could get what the original appeal of Perfect Dark was. The N64 game was basically the mechanics of GoldenEye taken into a sci-fi setting. If you go back and compare those two games to modern shooters, they actually have a little bit more in common with Dishonored than Halo. They're games about spies interacting with open-ended levels. The multiplayer? You'd run into the FPS competition problem again. Hao RPG? Again, Microsoft just isn't about that, otherwise we'd probably already have Fable 4. Sea of Thieves is more indicative of what kind of first party stuff MS is interested in. If it were to do more I imagine it being something more like a sports game or possibly even an MMO.
Games like Nier, Yakuza 0, Nioh, and Gravity Rush look like a great lineup when they all come out back-to-back but individually they're all pretty niche. I guess that's one problem Microsoft has -- the mid-tier developers aren't willing to spend the resources to port to Xbox. The big Japanese games like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and Resident Evil warrant it, but the stuff that doesn't need to sell five million copies sees fit to stay on one console, and they pick PlayStation.
This is a good point, and explains MS's "service first" approach. It's been trying to create the better platform and to some extent it still has the better platform, just not necessarily the library of software that appeals the most to certain people.
Bioshocker
Member
They need new successful IP's. As simple as that. But not easy. Quantum Break was a commercial failure. I consider myself a Remedy fan but QB was a disappointment so I wasn't surprised by the bad sales.
Halo is not what it was 2001-2007. It's not enough to carry a console on its own anymore. Microsoft need new first party IP and some exclusive deals with third party studios. Period.
Halo is not what it was 2001-2007. It's not enough to carry a console on its own anymore. Microsoft need new first party IP and some exclusive deals with third party studios. Period.
People really need to drop this attitude that Microsoft needs to let 343i make a new IP they want to create. 343 Industries was founded by Halo fans to handle the Halo IP for Microsoft. Anyone who works for the company went there willingly and knowingly that they only work on Halo.
Can we get you away from neogaf?
Microsoft is also investing heavily into AI. It's still early days, but making its AI resources available to third-party developers could give Xbox a significant advantage at some point in the future.
speedomodel
Member
Need to let their 1st party studios create new exciting franchises while still delivering on existing franchises.
343i should work on a 3rd person new IP. They won't. Halo 6 will be their next game.
Coalition should work on the new IP shooter they were working on. They won't. Gears 5 will be their next game.
MS needs to open studios with talented developers and then let them CREATE! Playground's new IP should 100% be a Xbox exclusive. I have my worries it won't.
343i should work on a 3rd person new IP. They won't. Halo 6 will be their next game.
Coalition should work on the new IP shooter they were working on. They won't. Gears 5 will be their next game.
MS needs to open studios with talented developers and then let them CREATE! Playground's new IP should 100% be a Xbox exclusive. I have my worries it won't.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
More powerful than PS4 and exclusive games. It sounds like they will have better hardware than PS4 Pro they just need the games.
I've been pretty happy with my One ever since backwards compatibility, but if they want me love the system like I did the 360 they need some/more exclusive single player content. No amount of service games will do and it hurts the franchises + their first party developers, when they're set up as factories producing the same content again and again until the sun burns out.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
I read the OP and the posts after that and I am not sure whether this is a troll thread or for real.
all xboxes are pretty ok... are people serious when they say it's some sort of failure or something?
I mean, are X1 owners unhappy with their console? I don't see actual X1 owners speaking up about that, if seems more like concern trolling by people who don't own MS hardware.
all xboxes are pretty ok... are people serious when they say it's some sort of failure or something?
I mean, are X1 owners unhappy with their console? I don't see actual X1 owners speaking up about that, if seems more like concern trolling by people who don't own MS hardware.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I don't think anyone here thinks they'll be back on top. No one here really thinks they need to either.
Yeah, it's not like the Xbone is the WiiU or something. It's fine, it's just not competitive with the PS4 right now which makes sense considering PlayStation has obliterated the competition 3 out of 4 gens. It's kind of the statue quo. MS is still moving units and has a good library of games, albeit short on exclusives. Don't know we need panic posts about Xbox every day.
And yeah, fuck the make x great again shit. It's gross.