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The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild |OT2| It's 98 All Over Again
- Thread starter vehn
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Yeah I would have liked the combat to adopt a light/heavy two button attack scheme. Then you could have stab/poke on light and swings/slashes on heavy. Would tie in with the stamina system well too.
Beat it today. I somehow am underwhelmed by the game while also having had a good amount of fun and having been addicted to the exploration.
Part of it is I was screwed by the single save slot issue, and a friend accidentally deleted my game, so so much of this was replaying content way too soon. I'd put in like 70 hours at the point I lost my save, had the Gordon stuff to do and Hyrule castle, so I felt really frustrated replaying the game to catch up again, even though the shrines and divine beasts were a cake walk second time around.
But that brought into stark light the fact that, as well designed as this game is, there just isn't that much going on ultimately. At least not to me.
The opening of the game was so fucking good, and the way they let you do your own thing until you were able to get off the Plateau felt like a revelation--I was so sick of Zelda games holding my hand. And the first time I played through the game, the first twenty or so hours felt that way too.
Hitting the first diving beast (I did the Zora area first) was underwhelming, though. I'd heard there were "four dungeons" so I was looking forward to a few traditional dungeons. Getting there and realizing, "oh--so I'm going to be doing four walking shrine clusters instead," was a huge let down to me. Hey we're fun enough, but I didn't care for them.
Add to that the fact that side quests are all EITHER another way to get to a shrine (fair enough, I guess) OR (and most frequently) a fetch quest requiring you to gather some number of items to exchange for...some other item that you could have probably found easily in the environment anyway. It's a testament to how bad the side quests are that I didn't touch any of them on my second play through.
I really enjoyed the ability to explore, but I also see how the story wasn't sacrificed in a major way to facilitate that. As rote as other Zelda games have been, I enjoyed the ways in which your exploration of the world and use of the dungeons was intimately tied into the game's narrative. I never felt like I was much part of a story here, and I never felt much like I was making my own story in a way that was sufficiently interesting.
So, yeah...fun enough game. Bosses were good. Mini bosses were good until they became repetitive. I certainly enjoyed my time with it, but I never LOVED my time with it, and, if I can be honest, I stick to Nintendo games because they're so good at making me love something.
I'm sure that having to replay the game has a lot to do with my current opinion, but even before that I kept thinking ,"This is pretty fun!" followed by "but probably not fun enough to play again..."
Part of it is I was screwed by the single save slot issue, and a friend accidentally deleted my game, so so much of this was replaying content way too soon. I'd put in like 70 hours at the point I lost my save, had the Gordon stuff to do and Hyrule castle, so I felt really frustrated replaying the game to catch up again, even though the shrines and divine beasts were a cake walk second time around.
But that brought into stark light the fact that, as well designed as this game is, there just isn't that much going on ultimately. At least not to me.
The opening of the game was so fucking good, and the way they let you do your own thing until you were able to get off the Plateau felt like a revelation--I was so sick of Zelda games holding my hand. And the first time I played through the game, the first twenty or so hours felt that way too.
Hitting the first diving beast (I did the Zora area first) was underwhelming, though. I'd heard there were "four dungeons" so I was looking forward to a few traditional dungeons. Getting there and realizing, "oh--so I'm going to be doing four walking shrine clusters instead," was a huge let down to me. Hey we're fun enough, but I didn't care for them.
Add to that the fact that side quests are all EITHER another way to get to a shrine (fair enough, I guess) OR (and most frequently) a fetch quest requiring you to gather some number of items to exchange for...some other item that you could have probably found easily in the environment anyway. It's a testament to how bad the side quests are that I didn't touch any of them on my second play through.
I really enjoyed the ability to explore, but I also see how the story wasn't sacrificed in a major way to facilitate that. As rote as other Zelda games have been, I enjoyed the ways in which your exploration of the world and use of the dungeons was intimately tied into the game's narrative. I never felt like I was much part of a story here, and I never felt much like I was making my own story in a way that was sufficiently interesting.
So, yeah...fun enough game. Bosses were good. Mini bosses were good until they became repetitive. I certainly enjoyed my time with it, but I never LOVED my time with it, and, if I can be honest, I stick to Nintendo games because they're so good at making me love something.
I'm sure that having to replay the game has a lot to do with my current opinion, but even before that I kept thinking ,"This is pretty fun!" followed by "but probably not fun enough to play again..."
JaseMath
Member
Note the number of instances.
Also, this is easily the most unfair "puzzle" in the game.
How is it unfair? I thought it was really clever when I solved it.
The more enemies you kill, the more higher-tier enemies you face. Higher-tier enemies drop better weapons. I'm walking around with 8 Savage Lynel bows, half a dozen of their shields, and an 82 damage 1-h sword.
It's not that I want BETTER weapons. I just want to be able to use CERTAIN weapons that look badass, but the effort in finding that exact weapon is far greater than the time it takes for it to just disintegrate.
I weapon durability potion would solve this problem, where it makes a certain weapon indestructible for 10-30 minutes.
FUCK YEAH FOUND THE LAST SHRINE I NEEDED.
It is kind if funny that the last one was in the Hebra region near the
... the reward its amazing O_O
I think I am ready to go for the final boss now
It is kind if funny that the last one was in the Hebra region near the
Forgotten Temple lok
... the reward its amazing O_O
The cap loos incredible with a green Hylian Tunic and the normal Hylian Pants
I think I am ready to go for the final boss now
I think the weapon system is "fine" as it is. You're always going to end up with a net positive from using the weapons against foes so you're going to quickly get yourself an arsenal that only limits itself to which enemies start spawning.
The progress of going from a tree branch, rusty, traveler, soldier, knight and royal is pretty cool though.
The system as it stands is by far the simplest it can be and it'll incentivize some variety as you gradually upgrade. Plus it makes for the weapon skills to be easy to just be slapped onto a weapon.
Although I would've probably preferred it they worked as the armor and you'd have to buy or construct the weapons. Making the upgrades be more escalated than linear.
Bows breaking is silly since they last forever and you're more likely to be worrying about ammo.
The progress of going from a tree branch, rusty, traveler, soldier, knight and royal is pretty cool though.
The system as it stands is by far the simplest it can be and it'll incentivize some variety as you gradually upgrade. Plus it makes for the weapon skills to be easy to just be slapped onto a weapon.
Although I would've probably preferred it they worked as the armor and you'd have to buy or construct the weapons. Making the upgrades be more escalated than linear.
Bows breaking is silly since they last forever and you're more likely to be worrying about ammo.
Wow awesome!
OrbitalBeard
Member
It's not unfair in any way.
ErrorMacro
Member
Guys, in which macro region of the map is Hestu after I find him the first time near kakariko? I really, REALLY want to get additional slots, but can't seem to find him 
I don't understand. I mean. It just felt like a normal puzzle to me. There's a hint, there is the info provided. You look around, think a bit, and then solve it.
In what way is it unfair? Its a puzzle with a solution that is immediately obvious if you think hard about it. Only took me 5 mins to try a few things out and then I had a lightbulb moment.
Guys, in which macro region of the map is Hestu after I find him the first time near kakariko? I really, REALLY want to get additional slots, but can't seem to find him
He's taking the road to the upper central region of the map, North of Hyrule Castle, after you first see him. Just keep following the road and you'll see him again, he stops at the stables on the way each time he changes location.
Eh, disagree. Once I figured it out it made sense. It just required a bit more consideration of possible permutations of variables in a specific fashion than did other puzzles. It's meant to be a brain-twister.
Majukun
Member
he is back to his homeGuys, in which macro region of the map is Hestu after I find him the first time near kakariko? I really, REALLY want to get additional slots, but can't seem to find him
in the hyrule forest
directly north from the castle
Honestly this was the only puzzle I just gave up on. I ended up googling the solution and still honestly had no idea why i was placing the balls in that way. The "hint" they give doesn't actually help at all.
Errrrr. Did you bother looking around the area or were you just focused on the text?
It's really obvious what the puzzle wants if you bother to look around and see that there are markers indicating 1, 2, 3, 4 for each row, so it wants you to count each one.
When you see the solution it makes perfect sense, and the hint does indeed give you a clue. It's how you look at it that determines whether or not you are focusing on the right parts. I looked at it the wrong way at first, but even before I completed it I knew that the last thing I tried was going to work.
It's just a hard puzzle compared to many others.
PRjumpman124
Member
Any tips for the Korok
trial in which you have to tail that insufferable korok towards the shrine? I'm always found out when I have to fight enemies for him or when he randomly runs back.
SoldierOfLight
Member
Ive probably spent 15 minutes on it last night, and another 30 minutes, maybe longer today. Just left to get some shrine blessings. I'll try again in docked mode to see if something clicks.
Just finished the game.
Whew. Hell of a start for a new console Nintendo.
Just a few thoughts on my overall feelings having completed it.
*ahem*
FUCK weapon degradation! If there is a lone game design flaw that needs to be pointed out, it's the god damn weapon degradation. I understand that they were going with the whole survival angle, and in many cases, they got it down. I loved cooking, hunting, gathering materials to cook food and make elixirs. I loved going to the shrines, piling up on spirit orbs, and finding a nice balance between stamina and hearts (although I think stamina is way more important early on). I loved taming wild horses, I loved exploring to find stables or towns early on to get rest and if I couldn't I'd start a fire with some firewood and rest in the wilderness. I totally got the direction they were going for, but weapon degradation didn't add anything positive to my experience. Hell, if they kept it limited to tree branches and old rusty weapons, I'd understand, but a brand spanking new royal broadsword can't go ten swings without a fracture??
Another issue I have is that the game isn't fully voiced. It's not that big a deal really, but so many of the NPC's in the game are so lovable and memorable, it would have been so amazing to run around a village or town overhearing random conversations or something. I hope they really step it up in that regard next time around.
The Divine Beats were....too easy. I breezed through them all with no problem. And these are supposed to be the game's "dungeons". Although the shrines sorta make up for it. I loved the shrines. I mentioned before, but some of them are Portal tier excellent. I hope we get more shrines as DLC, because I couldn't get enough of them.....Well okay the ones that involved any kind of motion controls were annoying af. I want traditional dungeons back, but I also want shrines to stay. They're that good.
I didn't mind the voice acting. Literally the only one that sounds a bit off is Zelda. Everyone else sounded fine.
Overall, I think that this game should be something of a template for future Zelda games to build off of. Get rid of weapon degradation. Make it fully voiced. Hell, this is almost an RPG, so I say add party members too. Nintendo are really on to something. I hope they rethink the conventions of some of their other games in the same way they did Zelda.
It's my new favorite Zelda game.
Whew. Hell of a start for a new console Nintendo.
Just a few thoughts on my overall feelings having completed it.
*ahem*
FUCK weapon degradation! If there is a lone game design flaw that needs to be pointed out, it's the god damn weapon degradation. I understand that they were going with the whole survival angle, and in many cases, they got it down. I loved cooking, hunting, gathering materials to cook food and make elixirs. I loved going to the shrines, piling up on spirit orbs, and finding a nice balance between stamina and hearts (although I think stamina is way more important early on). I loved taming wild horses, I loved exploring to find stables or towns early on to get rest and if I couldn't I'd start a fire with some firewood and rest in the wilderness. I totally got the direction they were going for, but weapon degradation didn't add anything positive to my experience. Hell, if they kept it limited to tree branches and old rusty weapons, I'd understand, but a brand spanking new royal broadsword can't go ten swings without a fracture??
Another issue I have is that the game isn't fully voiced. It's not that big a deal really, but so many of the NPC's in the game are so lovable and memorable, it would have been so amazing to run around a village or town overhearing random conversations or something. I hope they really step it up in that regard next time around.
The Divine Beats were....too easy. I breezed through them all with no problem. And these are supposed to be the game's "dungeons". Although the shrines sorta make up for it. I loved the shrines. I mentioned before, but some of them are Portal tier excellent. I hope we get more shrines as DLC, because I couldn't get enough of them.....Well okay the ones that involved any kind of motion controls were annoying af. I want traditional dungeons back, but I also want shrines to stay. They're that good.
I didn't mind the voice acting. Literally the only one that sounds a bit off is Zelda. Everyone else sounded fine.
Overall, I think that this game should be something of a template for future Zelda games to build off of. Get rid of weapon degradation. Make it fully voiced. Hell, this is almost an RPG, so I say add party members too. Nintendo are really on to something. I hope they rethink the conventions of some of their other games in the same way they did Zelda.
It's my new favorite Zelda game.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
Slow claps.
Im at like 40 hours, busy with work, and only have a 1/3 - 1/2 the towers T_T.
I get distracted too easily.
There should only ever be the one enemy, and it's just a wolf. Doesn't show up again.
Anyway, the trial is a massive pain in the dick, and I hated it. I equipped the stealth gear you buy in Kakariko Village (I'm sure a stealth potion would work just as well), memorized the route, stayed well behind, and hid close to a tree over to the left when he does his turn and run backwards bullshit.
If you made it to the wolf, you're damn close. Just hang in there and get that bullshit over with.
Anyway, the trial is a massive pain in the dick, and I hated it. I equipped the stealth gear you buy in Kakariko Village (I'm sure a stealth potion would work just as well), memorized the route, stayed well behind, and hid close to a tree over to the left when he does his turn and run backwards bullshit.
If you made it to the wolf, you're damn close. Just hang in there and get that bullshit over with.
SoldierOfLight
Member
I think I shed a tear. It was magical like being a kid in Disneyland.
I think I got lucky with the apparently annoying
Movement-increase buffs help. I feel like most players never use these.
stealth shrine quest. Failed it once due to an enemy and got it next time just by keeping the target barely in visible range and trying to have a LoS breaker close by for turnarounds. From the sound of it, I prolly avoided a lot of fails by pure chance lol.
Movement-increase buffs help. I feel like most players never use these.
I'll say this though. As someone playing the game without using any walkthroughs or guides, and only talking to friends who are also playing it for tips sometimes, this is the most satisfying Zelda I have played in my adult life. Why? Because Nintendo finally accepted that it is okay for the player to fail until they succeed. It's such a simple thing but it makes a huge difference.
For so long now, they have been so afraid of player failure turning them away from the games that they built too many failsafes. If you got something wrong too many times someone would pop up and clue you in. If you arrive at a particularly unusual puzzle before you can even try it someone will pop up to nudge you in the right direction. Sometimes you notice a clue and get excited to try it out but before you do someone pops up and CONFIRMS that the clue is in fact a clue. Stuff like that takes the fun out of puzzle solving for me.
I like the entire process of being presented with the challenge, trying out different things, and then when it works, I feel satisfied that it worked because I solved it. The possibility of being stuck, and the period of non-progression as I try different things to see how they work before solving the puzzle are crucial to the emotional reward of puzzle solving. BotW finally brings it back to Zelda in a big way.
For so long now, they have been so afraid of player failure turning them away from the games that they built too many failsafes. If you got something wrong too many times someone would pop up and clue you in. If you arrive at a particularly unusual puzzle before you can even try it someone will pop up to nudge you in the right direction. Sometimes you notice a clue and get excited to try it out but before you do someone pops up and CONFIRMS that the clue is in fact a clue. Stuff like that takes the fun out of puzzle solving for me.
I like the entire process of being presented with the challenge, trying out different things, and then when it works, I feel satisfied that it worked because I solved it. The possibility of being stuck, and the period of non-progression as I try different things to see how they work before solving the puzzle are crucial to the emotional reward of puzzle solving. BotW finally brings it back to Zelda in a big way.
This. Those shrines are something else.
PhazonBlazer
Member
I think i found the wrong way to get through
I would just run and whenever the fog would come at me I would just run the other way until I go to the end. I don't know how I didn't figure out the obvious solution.
It's funny, because I was, well, lost at first. Then when I tried the actual solution (which I assumed was a crazy fancy I had devised,) I was so skeptical. Then it started working and I freaked.
This game awards observation so goddamn much.
The best part is that it's not just shrines. It's everything in the game. From the combat encounters, the quests, the shrines, the divine beasts, the major side content in the game like finding the memories or the Lost Woods. Even how to approach climbing some of the towers. This is a game where simply playing the game is its own reward.
DecoReturns
Member
Definitely. I had that moment with the twin peak Shrines. Felt great that I figured it out on my own.
Hope they continue to trust the player
Fair enough, I didn't think about it that way. Building weapons from parts you collect could be an interesting idea.
Having to constantly worry about repairing your weapons has always been the most obnoxious part about durability systems for me. Breath of the Wild cutting that out is great IMO.
I guess you could argue having repairing as another option, but then there'd probably have to be an incentive for players to repair their stuff like weapons becoming less powerful with use (which is awful).
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
With all these complaints of weapon degradation, I hope Nintendo don't cave and change it. I LOVE it.
There's something special about finally grabbing all your big hitters together in preparation for what you think is going to be a big battle. Just like you've collected ingredients and prepared meals to heal yourself, arming yourself up with a bunch of treasured swords, spears, hammers and shields feels like the medievel equivalent of a gun suit up scene in a movie. I see the weapon degradation akin to expending all your clips.
When I finally left the safety of the village of I was in and rode off toward Hyrule castle with my full armory of my best swords, shields and bows. It felt special.
There's something special about finally grabbing all your big hitters together in preparation for what you think is going to be a big battle. Just like you've collected ingredients and prepared meals to heal yourself, arming yourself up with a bunch of treasured swords, spears, hammers and shields feels like the medievel equivalent of a gun suit up scene in a movie. I see the weapon degradation akin to expending all your clips.
When I finally left the safety of the village of I was in and rode off toward Hyrule castle with my full armory of my best swords, shields and bows. It felt special.
Which is why I love games like Deus Ex and MGSV. Emergent gameplay at its finest.
kunonabi
Member
The thing is they still don't trust the player. The puzzles are all dead simple and everything is very clearly sign posted and solutions are almost always a stone's throw away. The dungeons were gutted and simplified to a level I'd never imagine coming from them. Even the combat and boss patterns are painfully bland and pointless despite the huge damage increases because everything had to be tailored to bare-minimum equipment and status. I honestly never once felt that emotional reward and coupled with the lack of worthwhile in-game rewards it just felt like I was going through the motions once I got past the opening 100 hours.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
I agree its great, but I also dont think its perfect by any means. Durability levels are so vague and it would be nice to be able to keep the rare/cooler weapons around a bit longer.
its also a bit weird that melee weapons cannot really be bought or crafted (outside of the super expensive akkala ones)
Folks are just too used to having specific weapons be the primary arbiter of their power in most games. It can be hard to let that go, but once you do... oh mama, it's a party.
I just go with gusto wherever and don't worry about having great weapons now. And that makes me use all my abilities more creatively and pay attention to my environment more.
Imagine this: If you could take your best weapons into every battle, would you pay as close attention to the elements of your surroundings that might aid you in battle?
No. You would mash attack and call it a day.
Weapon decay in BotW makes players think about the world while in combat as much as it makes them think about the world while exploring it.
Right, but I feel like the hint is especially unclear.
It said to look to the sky (or something along those lines), but really you just need to look far away. If it "look at the horizon" or something, then it would have made more sense.
Yeah I'm glad the game doesn't give you too many tips. Though in terms of satisfying puzzles Botw doesn't have an especially challenging collection compared to the rest of the series imo. I feel like some of the puzzles are designed a little too "loose" to encourage a beat-it-your-way style. My favorites are usually the ones like constellations/dueling peaks/Lost Woods where I felt like I had to figure out something specific.
I more appreciate it when talking about the other elements of the game like you mentioned. I like that the game allows me to run into a nest of Guardians and get blown up, or that it allows me to miss places or even game mechanics while exploring, which makes discovering them myself more rewarding.
They better step it up in quality too or I'll be playing the game on mute whenever somebody opens their mouths. With how main character VA was in this game I shudder to imagine NPCs..
Is there a trick?
I just ran the opposite direction whenever the fog started taking me, total trial and error.
Wesley-Sigma
Member
Played this at a friend's house today.
Much more fun than I was expecting. I'd get it if my Wii U wasn't in Albuquerque.
Much more fun than I was expecting. I'd get it if my Wii U wasn't in Albuquerque.
DecoReturns
Member
hosannainexcelsis
Member
What would be an example of a game that you think does trust the player?
lmao I had no idea, and I didn't even have a hard time getting through
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