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[Audioboxer]

The future of oil is going be in plastics and chemical production rather than making small explosions.

Whatever it is used for it's still an asset for the country until the supplies run out. As I was quite satirical about in my first post, the world "runs" on oil, wars have been fought over it and pretty much every country in the world that has it makes out better for having it.

We're talking about a country with a population of 5m people potentially having another large find off of our coasts.

 

[oti]

The UKIP guy on Sky News is an idiot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

 

[dankir]

Happy Brexit day!!

 

[liquidtmd]

the UK will be able to revoke its notification of article 50 but this must be �subject to conditions set by all EU-27 so they cannot be used as a procedural device or abused in an attempt to improve the actual terms of the United Kingdom�s membership

Legit question - do the EU actually have the right to put this in as a provision, when legally it was a grey area the last time I read about the actual practicality of the UK being forced out of the EU after the two year period?

I thought it came down to interpretation of Art. 50 being an intention to quit, not actually a 'we quit'.

 

[kmag]

Just the 108 Mutual Recognition Agreements, the 54 current FTA's to replicate, negotiation of Single Market access, the exit agreement, the negotiation over the apportionment of the EU's current WTO schedules, the submission and acceptance of those new WTO schedules. And just two years to do it.

All just to stand still.

Then the real hard work begins.

 

[Alx]

Legit question - do the EU actually have the right to put this in as a provision, when legally it was a grey area the last time I read about the actual practicality of the UK being forced out of the EU after the two year period?

I thought it came down to interpretation of Art. 50 being an intention to quit, not actually a 'we quit'.

It's true (afaik), but I suppose the EU will also be the judge of how to interpret the article, anyway. Who else could the UK appeal to ?

 

[nekkid]

Legit question - do the EU actually have the right to put this in as a provision, when legally it was a grey area the last time I read about the actual practicality of the UK being forced out of the EU after the two year period?

I thought it came down to interpretation of Art. 50 being an intention to quit, not actually a 'we quit'.

I believe this is still a legal grey area, and I'm guessing the EU hope by putting this statement in writing that the UK will accept that position rather than challenging the meaning of the clause, it we needed to.

I mean, the EU can write whatever they want in a letter, doesn't mean it'll hold up in court.

It's true (afaik), but I suppose the EU will also be the judge of how to interpret the article, anyway. Who else could the UK appeal to ?

If that were to happen, the result would be heavily scrutinised by all member nations.

 

[d9b]

Happy Brexit day!!

 

[Vagabundo]

Happy B-day...

The only silver lining I see for this is that, as an Irish-American, it would be kind of cool to see a unified Ireland in my lifetime.

Knowing our luck though it would probably just end up being two independent Irelands instead.

I think this might be the only practical, realistic solution, unless there is a drastic change in attitudes both sides of the border. A poll for a united Ireland is not certainty south of the border.

 

[Diprosalic]

The UKIP guy is an idiot.

Surprising.

 

[CTLance]

What's Cameron doing on this... how do I put it.... most interesting day? I mean, he's started all of this, quite needlessly at that.

I think it would be justified to have an annual parade in his honour - after all, he was instrumental in kicking off the entire Brexit thing. I believe he should be forced to participate. I bet it would become an amazing event a few years down the line.

Also, Merry Brexitmas. Wishing you all the best of luck. May the gods have mercy upon our wretched souls.

 

[Stead Fast]

What's Cameron doing on this... how do I put it.... most interesting day? I mean, he's started all of this, quite needlessly at that.

I think it would be justified to have an annual parade in his honour - after all, he was instrumental in kicking off the entire Brexit thing. I believe he should be forced to participate. I bet it would become an amazing event a few years down the line.

Also, Merry Brexitmas. Wishing you all the best of luck. May the gods have mercy upon our wretched souls.

The last time I heard Cameron's carrying-ons it was about his complaints that the NHS staffing crisis is awful as it had hit his local hospital.

I broke an admitted rickety chair in my house that day when no one was around. I told my family I accidentally broke it whilst sitting. I actually smashed into pieces when I read that article last year (Daily Mirror I think).

Fuck him.

 

[Audioboxer]

What's Cameron doing on this... how do I put it.... most interesting day? I mean, he's started all of this, quite needlessly at that.

I think it would be justified to have an annual parade in his honour - after all, he was instrumental in kicking off the entire Brexit thing. I believe he should be forced to participate. I bet it would become an amazing event a few years down the line.

Also, Merry Brexitmas. Wishing you all the best of luck. May the gods have mercy upon our wretched souls.

Probably lining up lucrative speaking opportunities like good ole Tony did. Or counting his property portfolio.

Cameron don't care, his political legacy might be somewhat soiled but he's a business man.

 

[firehawk12]

Probably lining up lucrative speaking opportunities like good ole Tony did. Or counting his property portfolio.

Cameron don't care, his political legacy might be somewhat soiled but he's a business man.

I wonder who history will see as the bigger failure, Blair or Cameron.

 

[The Hobo]

Happy B-day...



I think this might be the only practical, realistic solution, unless there is a drastic change in attitudes both sides of the border. A poll for a united Ireland is not certainty south of the border.

I'm not sure we would be able to afford to take on Northern Ireland, to be honest.

 

[Stead Fast]

I wonder who history will see as the bigger failure, Blair or Cameron.

Probably Blair; the hatred people feel for Cameron on the referendum will be amplified by the rest of the public for May or whoever balls up the trade deals. They'll go down in history as a failure. Cameron will be in the opening few paragraphs of this political history textbook.

Blair however, will never shake the title of war criminal.

 

[Hippolnareff]

That's weird, I don't feel in control at all?

 

[ss1]

That's weird, I don't feel in control at all?

That’s because we are about to lose control...

 

[d9b]

Stay calm and keep things are looking pretty good!

 

[PJV3]

Probably Blair; the hatred people feel for Cameron on the referendum will be amplified by the rest of the public for May or whoever balls up the trade deals. They'll go down in history as a failure. Cameron will be in the opening few paragraphs of this political history textbook.

Blair however, will never shake the title of war criminal.

I think with the passage of time Blair will just seem like a continuation of the usual shit US/UK foreign policy.

Cameron on the other hand is just fucking useless and unremarkable bar losing the referendum.

 

[Paulie_C]

I'm not sure we would be able to afford to take on Northern Ireland, to be honest.

So screw the Irish living in the north as long as you're ok?

 

[oti]

That’s because we are about to lose control...

Brexit make you lose control.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=atIvKSfKDOA

 

[d9b]

So screw the Irish living in the north as long as you're ok?

United Ireland and Independent Scotland are now realistic possibilities thanks to Brexit campaigners and voters.

 

[avaya]

Probably Blair; the hatred people feel for Cameron on the referendum will be amplified by the rest of the public for May or whoever balls up the trade deals. They'll go down in history as a failure. Cameron will be in the opening few paragraphs of this political history textbook.

Blair however, will never shake the title of war criminal.

Lol. Blair is a lot of things but hardly a failure. Cameron's the worst thing since Chamberlain. May next up. This is not even a contest.

Also Blair is not a war criminal, that is for actual crimes committed in war. He is a war monger or war enabler or more aptly fucking idiot for supporting Bush.

 

[Stead Fast]

That's because we are about to lose control...

But! The people taking back control, the Tories are British! That's er... that's okay I guess, like, when have the ruling elitist class of Britain ruined the lives of untold millions of people at home (not even going into how many they ruined worldwide)?

Edit:

Lol. Blair is a lot of things but hardly a failure. Cameron's the worst thing since Chamberlain. May next up. This is not even a contest.

Also Blair is not a war criminal, that is for actual crimes committed in war. He is a war monger or war enabler or more aptly fucking idiot for supporting Bush.

Not that I disagree with your POV, I'd loathe Cameron so much more than Blair, and as a collective his [Cameron] rule was so destructive to the UK, but like I said, history will likely jump on the next PM, or even those following her, as they're the people who dealt with the actual crap that goes with us leaving the EU, as that has drawn far more attention to Britain than Cameron's systematic drain on the UK's services.

As for his label, semantics be damned for too many people world-wide, Blair is monger and enabler and a fucking idiot, but to enough people across the globe, it's just as easy to label him a war criminal. I'll reiterate, he will never shake that title.

 

[Audioboxer]

I wonder who history will see as the bigger failure, Blair or Cameron.

Definitely Blair. Cameron will be blamed for Brexit, but ultimately enough people voted for it and many of those people will defend Cameron by proxy for giving them what they seem to want.

I doubt many today think the Iraq War is a thing to be proud of.

United Ireland and Independent Scotland are now realistic possibilities thanks to Brexit campaigners and voters.

Doubt it, Irelands problems with violence, history and religion aren't calming just because of Brexit. In an ideal situation Ireland would simply unify, but good luck anyone trying to get to that anytime soon.

 

[kmag]

I take it my gold shitting unicorn will arrive at 12:31 or soon there after?

 

[Bananajama]

I don't think you can just blame Cameron for Brexit. But successive Governments before them are just as much to blame..

The amount of times the UK Government has blamed the EU for 'not being able to do something'

When they really could have
(or when it really didn't matter)

Was one of the reasons that whipped up the storm for the call for Brexit
Remain had an uphill battle with many voters because of this and it was always going to be difficult to argue against 20~ years of EU blaming.

Then the call for making British Fishing great again
When really it was only really great because we fished in Iceland waters or had abundant stock at the time. Neither are available now
(Cod Wars was it?)

 

[Audioboxer]

EU bros not forgetting us

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gh-line-on-transitional-deal?CMP=share_btn_tw

On our, the European Union side, we are committed to spare no efforts to protect first and foremost the citizens, both those of UK and those of the remaining twenty seven member states of the Union. The European Union is the Union of citizens. This is in the Treaties. We have also taken note of the fact that UK citizens voted differently in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and also in Gibraltar, making it clear that the majority of them would wish to remain in the Union. It is difficult to imagine that those differences could be ignored and discarded in the process of Brexit. In the European Parliament, we represent all citizens of the European Union and will act throughout the whole process leading to the UK's withdrawal to protect their interests.

https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-640

 

[PJV3]

Definitely Blair. Cameron will be blamed for Brexit, but ultimately enough people voted for it and many of those people will defend Cameron by proxy for giving them what they seem to want.

I doubt many today think the Iraq War is a thing to be proud of.

Blair could qualify for biggest let down, but the history books will have him down as PM of good times and a success.

 

[carlsojo]

Soooo did you guys all get fireworks for tonight or nah

 

[CTLance]

The last time I heard Cameron's carrying-ons it was about his complaints that the NHS staffing crisis is awful as it had hit his local hospital.

Probably lining up lucrative speaking opportunities like good ole Tony did. Or counting his property portfolio.
Cameron don't care, his political legacy might be somewhat soiled but he's a business man.

Which is exactly why he should be paraded around town for the remainder of his life, and possibly thereafter. Tie his name to this mess in a way that he won't be able to leave the house (or any enclosed space at all) without someone making a Brexit joke.

So yes, I have a vindictive streak.

 

[autumnleaf]

EU bros not forgetting us

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gh-line-on-transitional-deal?CMP=share_btn_tw



https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-640

Sad that no one in our Government has acknowledged this but the EU does.

 

[Paulie_C]

United Ireland and Independent Scotland are now realistic possibilities thanks to Brexit campaigners and voters.

I think Scottish independence will be more likely before a united Ireland. Ultimately theres still a unionist majority in the north.

 

[TimmmV]

Definitely Blair. Cameron will be blamed for Brexit, but ultimately enough people voted for it and many of those people will defend Cameron by proxy for giving them what they seem to want.

I doubt many today think the Iraq War is a thing to be proud of.

People forget that in 2003 the Iraq war had popular support too, so Blair could legitimately use that same excuse as well

If Scotland succeed in leaving the UK then Cameron will be remembered as the PM who oversaw the destruction of two political unions, and potentially also started the destruction of the NHS.

I think history will be fairly critical of both, but Cameron will be seen as worse. As bad as the Iraq war was on a humanitarian level, it had less of a negative impact on the UK then leaving the EU will, and ultimately PM's will be judged on how well the country did under their leadership

 

[oti]

Cameron + UK garbage media

 

[Audioboxer]

Labour is going to keep winning in Scotland

Yes, they have every right to be against a second indyref, but cut out the bullshit language. Nothing was "forced though". It was mandated, then debated and then voted on, fairly. Democracy, Dugdale.

People forget that in 2003 the Iraq war had popular support too, so Blair could legitimately use that same excuse as well

If Scotland succeed in leaving the UK then Cameron will be remembered as the PM who oversaw the destruction of two political unions, and potentially also started the destruction of the NHS.

I think history will be fairly critical of both, but Cameron will be seen as worse. As bad as the Iraq war was on a humanitarian level, it had less of a negative impact on the UK then leaving the EU will, and ultimately PM's will be judged on how well the country did under their leadership

Many of the people were fed bullshit about intelligence which those in the know knew was wrong, unclear or without enough merit. So remember support at the time may have largely been on a bed of lies.

This sums it up as well, opinions changing with better evidence (if the war had been a huge success you'd maybe even have expected this poll to turn ever higher in favour)

Tony Blairs legacy extends to wishy washy non-apologies even after the Chilcot report came out.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

EU bros not forgetting us

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gh-line-on-transitional-deal?CMP=share_btn_tw

https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-640

I'm getting a bit tired of the idea of this. Every member of the UK's vote should have counted for the same, it doesn't matter.

What was parliament supposed to do? Point out that 2,101,898 voters should be listened to over the majority? I'm not even sure what yours or anyone else's point is about this.

Spoiler

Plus a lot of us sensible folk voted Remain, they can turf out the 40% of Scottish voters who voted to Leave and just have a placement scheme for UK nationals who didn't vote Leave

 

[PJV3]

Labour is going to keep winning in Scotland

Yes, they have every right to be against a second indyref, but cut out the bullshit language. Nothing was "forced though". It was mandated, then debated and then voted on, fairly. Democracy, Dugdale.



Many of the people were fed bullshit about intelligence which those in the know knew was wrong, unclear or without enough merit. So remember support at the time may have largely been on a bed of lies.

It seems OK to me you can use power democratically gained or not to force issues. I'm for another referendum so I don't agree with her ultimately.

 

[Audioboxer]

It seems OK to me you can use power democratically gained or not to force issues.

Some of it is optics here (sleazy political language used to try and incite fear/anger/unstable emotions). Since Brexit was voted for Sturgeon has spent a good bit of time and effort trying to persuade May and Co to compromise, debate better with the EU and all round just not fuck this up even more. They barely listened. Ergo, indyref2 was prepped in plain sight, then just there voted on in parliament.

Remember when May didn't even want UK parliament to have a say or vote on the Brexit bill? Maybe Labour is best aiming some of their ire at their biggest opposition... Yes this is Scottish Labour, but good luck with the tactic of brow-beating a country that voted majority in favour of the EU by screaming "Better Together!".

 

[oti]

May shitting on Scotland even on this day. Holy cow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

"I will just remind the honourable gentleman that Scotland is part of the UK" was the answer to the question why she broke her promise of building a UK-wide approach to Brexit.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Momentous day! I'm not going to be near a tv at 12:30 unfortunately, but will listen on the radio.

 

[oti]

"Now is not the time to be talking about a second Indy referendum."

 

[Xando]

May shitting on Scotland even on this day. Holy cow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

"I will just remind the honourable gentleman that Scotland is part of the UK" was the answer to the question why she broke her promise of building a UK-wide approach to Brexit.

Lol she doesn't even deny that she fucked over scotland and northern ireland

 

[PJV3]

Momentous day! I'm not going to be near a tv at 12:30 unfortunately, but will listen on the radio.

For the next two years? Not much is happening today is it.

 

[TimmmV]

Many of the people were fed bullshit about intelligence which those in the know knew was wrong, unclear or without enough merit. So remember support at the time may have largely been on a bed of lies.

Of course, but all of thats true for the EU referendum too.

I strongly believe that in 15 years time there will be a lot of people pretending they didn't vote to leave too.

 

[Stead Fast]

I hope people can take notes on her stances today, you could make one hell of a bingo card on her shifting stances based on this commons meeting.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

For the next two years? Not much is happening today is it.

I assumed there's some kind of official act occurring at 12:30?

 

[StayDead]

Sad that no one in our Government has acknowledged this but the EU does.

It's been exactly the same for the past 10 years.

Our government itself has only made things worse for us. The EU government was the only reason we had nice things such as rights as customers to refunds and things like that.

Fuck our government.

 

[Audioboxer]

Of course, but all of thats true for the EU referendum too.

I strongly believe that in 15 years time there will be a lot of people pretending they didn't vote to leave too.

True, if things go to shit. Hence why some in the North are being noisy cunts and not wanting to have to wait till 15 years down the line to go "well, this is shit".

I hope people can take notes on her stances today, you could make one hell of a bingo card on her shifting stances based on this commons meeting.

Her and quite a few of the Tories are the masters of deflection. All politicians do it to some extent, sadly, but deflection meters go off the charts primarily when it is Tories.

Murdo Fraser, who is a right rocket, tried to tell a joke yesterday in the Scottish parliament that was dressed around admitting the Scottish Conservatives have spent so much time, money and getting expert advice on how to try and make the Conservatives popular in Scotland again, and get a Conservative first minister. The punch line was... Sturgeon is doing this job for them, and that they wished they hadn't bothered with all the effort they've gone through. Which falls flat and is hilarious in that the SNP have only been getting stronger under Sturgeon. The thing to take note of, though, is yes politicians spend so much time being groomed on how to speak properly, how to deflect, how to show confidence, and basically how to be PR machines.