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[Phoenix RISING]

Eh i disagree with Sterling so much that this isnt really scaring me.

Need more opinions.

Everyone understands that this is a platformer, right? I don't think I am breaking embargo by saying that it satisfies the need to collect things. Additionally, the story is very basic, so don't come in expecting Witcher 3 levels of complexity. Again, this is a platformer through and through.

Thus far my only unconditional criticism is that I can't stand the so-called voice acting. Had My Wife and Kids watch me play a little and we are all in agreement that the way it's done is annoying. Clever writing though. Puns everywhere.

Yeah. Maybe Jim Sterling just hates puns. If you hate puns this will be the worst game you've ever played.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I actually do think a proper critic can distance themselves emotionally from their own response. Okay, you found Lolita repulsive, or Moby Dick hard to read. They're still objectively fantastic works of literature.

I'm not saying Zelda is the greatest thing ever, and it's certainly not Moby Dick, and is hard to put a score on things - I'm actually anti-score.

But it's an 8 at least. "Super good, yeah higher quality than the majority of games released in a year, but maybe not to my taste."

And those two negative reviews on Jaws are idiots.

But Jim actually found specific aspects of BotW to be unfun. The mindset you put forth is actively why Jeff Gerstmann and the Eurogamer reviewer got death threats over their Twilight Princess and Uncharted 3 reviews (respectively). No game is "owed" a good review, and frankly, why is it an 8 at least? Can't someone come out and say "well you're a poor critic, it's clearly a 9/10 at least." Or, "a 9/10? This game is perfection, it's clearly a 10/10!"

Review entitlements are garbage and ultimately do nothing for the industry and only everything for the peace of mind of fans of the games being reviewed.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

But Jim actually found specific aspects of BotW to be unfun. The mindset you put forth is actively why Jeff Gerstmann and the Eurogamer reviewer got death threats over their Twilight Princess and Uncharted 3 reviews (respectively). No game is "owed" a good review, and frankly, why is it an 8 at least? Can't someone come out and say "well you're a poor critic, it's clearly a 9/10 at least." Or, "a 9/10? This game is perfection, it's clearly a 10/10!"

Review entitlements are garbage and ultimately do nothing for the industry and only everything for the peace of mind of fans of the games being reviewed.

I get it, and I agree completely, I just do think it deserves an 8 at least given I think it's pretty clearly at least good enough to be considered in the top 20% of games released in a year.

I dunno...Yeah i sound like part of the problem here. I did not freak out about his review, I just think he's ...Eh...Loves controversy.

But games are hard to review, for sure, and people should not expect scores.

I just hate scores.

 

[Fisty]

Guys, I think it's pretty obvious that they are referring to technical issues, I don't see the confusion here. They most likely got PS4 codes or something and the performance is not up to par. Jim's not going to be so goddamn offended by a mediocre or boring platformer as to post stuff like this under embargo, he's not an asshole. He has warned people of shit performance on games under embargo before.

 

[Adam_Roman]

I wish people wouldn't use Unity as such a blanket reason for why some games don't perform well. Its a fairly versatile engine that a good number of well-performing games have been built on. It's all up to the developer if they want to optimize their game or not. I'm sure people don't blame UE4 for the abysmal performance of ARK.

 

[CaLe]

People defending Insomniac for their games running like shit in Unity... Ubisoft is a rather large developer with shitty performing games on both consoles and PC. Is it Unity's fault here also ?

What about Frostbite ? (Mass Effect: Andromeda)

Engines have issues. All of them do.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So from what I gather, I should buy the PC version?

 

[SporeCrawler]

so where is mario x rabbids?

 

[Tesser]

Are you surprised or unsurprised by LKD's and Sterling's comments?

Surprised at the fact Sterling has gone out of his way to comment on it? Or surprised at what Sterling is actually saying? If the former: not one bit. If the latter...hmmmmm...don't really want to say anything that might be considered breaking embargo. Would love to...but...guess I'll have to leave it for the impending Review Thread next week - embargo lifts April 4th.

Really not that big a fan of Sterling. While I agree with a sizeable amount of what he says/expresses outside of the character/persona/filler-nonsense, he's one person I can easily disregard. It's all business/opportunism at the end of the day.

 

[Gxgear]

As we saw with Andromeda, where there's smoke there's fire.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

But Jim actually found specific aspects of BotW to be unfun. The mindset you put forth is actively why Jeff Gerstmann and the Eurogamer reviewer got death threats over their Twilight Princess and Uncharted 3 reviews (respectively). No game is "owed" a good review, and frankly, why is it an 8 at least? Can't someone come out and say "well you're a poor critic, it's clearly a 9/10 at least." Or, "a 9/10? This game is perfection, it's clearly a 10/10!"

Review entitlements are garbage and ultimately do nothing for the industry and only everything for the peace of mind of fans of the games being reviewed.

And people are allowed to discount his opinion and see it as irrelevant and untrustworthy if they see a pattern of behavior and criticism that they see as unreasonable.

You're right in saying that it's fine for a critic to weigh in with his opinion, and the counterpoint to that is that everyone reading his opinion gets to judge it on if they feel it's accurate.

 

[UncleSporky]

And people are allowed to discount his opinion and see it as irrelevant and untrustworthy if they see a pattern of behavior and criticism that they see as unreasonable.

You're right in saying that it's fine for a critic to weigh in with his opinion, and the counterpoint to that is that everyone reading his opinion gets to judge it on if they feel it's accurate.

There's a good reason why statistics tends to discard extreme outliers, even when that data was collected legitimately.

 

[SporeCrawler]

But Jim actually found specific aspects of BotW to be unfun. The mindset you put forth is actively why Jeff Gerstmann and the Eurogamer reviewer got death threats over their Twilight Princess and Uncharted 3 reviews (respectively). No game is "owed" a good review, and frankly, why is it an 8 at least? Can't someone come out and say "well you're a poor critic, it's clearly a 9/10 at least." Or, "a 9/10? This game is perfection, it's clearly a 10/10!"

Review entitlements are garbage and ultimately do nothing for the industry and only everything for the peace of mind of fans of the games being reviewed.

so if there is a review of Forza Motor Sport that reads " no blue shells, lame" and gave it a 7 would it be called a fair review? there are garbage reviews and its okay to call them out for it. death threats is a different issue but if you cant criticize critics then what is the point of critics at all

 

[Xater]

I canceled my pre-order after I got my hands on the Toybox demo. The performance was atrocious on PS4. That probably was quite unoptimized but this being Unity in consoles made me think there probably won't be much improvement.

Picked up Snake Pass instead and I am very happy with that game.

 

[QisTopTier]

So from what I gather, I should buy the PC version?

That seems to be the case here

 

[Moze]

I mean, I can't imagine they haven't just made a game that backers wanted. Fully understand why some might not like this type of game in 2017 though. I would be surprised if people who like collectathon games do not like this game.

EDIT: It's a performance issue. My bad.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And people are allowed to discount his opinion and see it as irrelevant and untrustworthy if they see a pattern of behavior and criticism that they see as unreasonable.

You're right in saying that it's fine for a critic to weigh in with his opinion, and the counterpoint to that is that everyone reading his opinion gets to judge it on if they feel it's accurate.

7/10 is a reflection of how he actually felt about the game. It's kind of hard for him to be wrong about it. And I say that because people don't talk about the points he made in the review, they talk about the score itself.

People have the right to have opinions on his opinion, but when it inevitably reaches the point of obsession, it's in your best interest to get over it.

so if there is a review of Forza Motor Sport that reads " no blue shells, lame" and gave it a 7 would it be called a fair review? there are garbage reviews and its okay to call them out for it. death threats is a different issue but if you cant criticize critics then what is the point of critics at all

As I note above, your argument fails because no one is quoting his review. I know people who literally never read the review and are angry by the rating. What one line in his review reaches the level of giving a game a seven for not having a maligned item from another very different series? Also, are you arguing then that Jim gave it a 7 over one single problem instead of multiple ones?

 

[Fisty]

People defending Insomniac for their games running like shit in Unity... Ubisoft is a rather large developer with shitty performing games on both consoles and PC. Is it Unity's fault here also ?

What about Frostbite ? (Mass Effect: Andromeda)

Engines have issues. All of them do.

But unity has very specific issues that have arisen in nearly all of the PS4 games that use it. I can count the unity games that don't have issues on one hand I think. Assault Android Cactus is actually the only one I can think of offhand.

 

[CaLe]

But unity has very specific issues that have arisen in nearly all of the PS4 games that use it. I can count the unity games that don't have issues on one hand I think. Assault Android Cactus is actually the only one I can think of offhand.

You're pointing to specific issues that "nearly all PS4 games" have. Can you do the same with other engines ? Can you also point to Unity games on PS4 that do not have these issues ?

I'm not saying the engine is perfect. I'm saying that switching to another engine wouldn't necessarily have made any difference. You have to put the effort into optimizing your code.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

And people are allowed to discount his opinion and see it as irrelevant and untrustworthy if they see a pattern of behavior and criticism that they see as unreasonable.

You're right in saying that it's fine for a critic to weigh in with his opinion, and the counterpoint to that is that everyone reading his opinion gets to judge it on if they feel it's accurate.

The Armond White effect, basically.
Armond White has an opinion, yes, it's just...Misguided, at best, most of the time, of not flat out wrong or bad.

He has a right to his opinion, but I have a right to believe him very wrong, and a poor critic.

I can accept any review from a critic if it's well reasoned. If it stinks of trolling or it's just dumb...That's another matter.

 

[bridegur]

Everyone understands that this is a platformer, right? I don't think I am breaking embargo by saying that it satisfies the need to collect things. Additionally, the story is very basic, so don't come in expecting Witcher 3 levels of complexity. Again, this is a platformer through and through.

Thus far my only unconditional criticism is that I can't stand the so-called voice acting. Had My Wife and Kids watch me play a little and we are all in agreement that the way it's done is annoying. Clever writing though. Puns everywhere.

Yeah. Maybe Jim Sterling just hates puns. If you hate puns this will be the worst game you've ever played.

All I need to hear. I still think it looks fantastic.

 

[Boem]

Even though everyone is now desperately trying to decide whether Sterling is trustworthy or not, the gameplay videos frankly never looked all that fun to me. I won't be surprised if this gets a low-to-average reception at best. It simply doesn't look that fun to play, even outside of technical issues.

Which really sucks because those weird Jontron supporters will eat that up in their odd little war they're having right now.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The Armond White effect, basically.
Armond White has an opinion, yes, it's just...Misguided, at best, most of the time, of not flat out wrong or bad.

He has a right to his opinion, but I have a right to believe him very wrong, and a poor critic.

I can accept any review from a critic if it's well reasoned. If it stinks of trolling or it's just dumb...That's another matter.

In which case, what aspects of his review did you find faulty?

 

[UncleSporky]

7/10 is a reflection of how he actually felt about the game. It's kind of hard for him to be wrong about it. And I say that because people don't talk about the points he made in the review, they talk about the score itself.

People have the right to have opinions on his opinion, but when it inevitably reaches the point of obsession, it's in your best interest to get over it.

People with a negative opinion of his opinion are reflections of how they actually feel, too. It's hard for them to be wrong about it.

And why are these opinions of opinions an "inevitable obsession," but it's impossible for Jim's opinion to appear similarly obsessive? Especially when he makes multiple videos, tweets, etc. about this opinion? Can't we all just hold as strong of opinions as we like, and drop or not drop them as we see fit, both reviewers and consumers?

 

[QisTopTier]

Game looks fun to me, the huge ass levels are a major selling point for me as well. I didn't back the game but hearing how some of the levels are lasting people 6-8 hours each I'm down buying it day one.

 

[A Link to the Past]

People with a negative opinion of his opinion are reflections of how they actually feel, too. It's hard for them to be wrong about it.

And why are these opinions of opinions an "inevitable obsession," but it's impossible for Jim's opinion to appear similarly obsessive? Especially when he makes multiple videos, tweets, etc. about this opinion? Can't we all just hold as strong of opinions as we like, and drop or not drop them as we see fit, both reviewers and consumers?

The point is that their opinion isn't "Jim's points are wrong," it's "Jim's 7 is wrong."

Further, Jim seems pretty clear in his approach of engaging only when engaged. Yes, when people are constantly shitting on him through social media, often directly at him, he is inclined to respond. You're effectively asking only Jim to be the "better person," because him not responding isn't going to make people not salty that he brought down the MC.

 

[chekhonte]

Everyone understands that this is a platformer, right? I don't think I am breaking embargo by saying that it satisfies the need to collect things. Additionally, the story is very basic, so don't come in expecting Witcher 3 levels of complexity. Again, this is a platformer through and through.

Thus far my only unconditional criticism is that I can't stand the so-called voice acting. Had My Wife and Kids watch me play a little and we are all in agreement that the way it's done is annoying. Clever writing though. Puns everywhere.

Yeah. Maybe Jim Sterling just hates puns. If you hate puns this will be the worst game you've ever played.

He's British, he'd have been hanged long ago if he didn't like puns.

 

[ramparter]

Well, Im also playing it, and lets say Im surprised about their tone

Cool

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

The game looked worrying once they uploaded footage of the Casino stage IMO. Vapid, empty and devoid of colourful inspiration or life - though admittedly other stages have looked much better. Anticipating a mediocre reception for this one. Mid-70s Metacritic with people calling it moderately decent but nothing particularly special. I think Playtonic overpromised more than they could deliver and also didn't give themselves enough development time. With reviews rapidly approaching we'll get a clearer picture soon enough.

As for Jim Sterling - as someone who has followed him since his Destructoid days and watched a lot of the Jimquisition he strikes me as someone who's honest - sometimes brutally so - but still honest. I don't think he'd raise a negative objection knowing full well it could affect the game unless his complaints held merit - hence LKD echoing his opinion. As for "he's just doing this for attention/Patreon-subs" surely "stunts" like this including his Zelda review would actually lose him subs as opposed to gaining them?

He's an honest guy. He's telling the truth here IMO.

 

[Beartruck]

Man, hope this isn't actually the case. My friend is a huge banjo fan, this would crush him.

 

[Bahorel]

Game looks fun to me, the huge ass levels are a major selling point for me as well. I didn't back the game but hearing how some of the levels are lasting people 6-8 hours each I'm down buying it day one.

Single levels that are 6-8 hours?? Wow, I wonder how long a full playthrough is then.

 

[Fisty]

You're pointing to specific issues that "nearly all PS4 games" have. Can you do the same with other engines ? Can you also point to Unity games on PS4 that do not have these issues ?

I'm not saying the engine is perfect. I'm saying that switching to another engine wouldn't necessarily have made any difference. You have to put the effort into optimizing your code.

... I'm pointing out that it's highly likely that they are using a console version to review and Unity has a very consistent history of not performing well on PS4, with very few exceptions. Other engines are irrelevant to this discussion. When you also consider that Jim has a history of dropping hints about poor performance, all the pieces fall into place. Luckily, performance can be patched and improved.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

He's not wrong that you shouldn't pre-order a game blindly.

It's sound advice.

 

[UncleSporky]

The point is that their opinion isn't "Jim's points are wrong," it's "Jim's 7 is wrong."

Further, Jim seems pretty clear in his approach of engaging only when engaged. Yes, when people are constantly shitting on him through social media, often directly at him, he is inclined to respond. You're effectively asking only Jim to be the "better person," because him not responding isn't going to make people not salty that he brought down the MC.

How do you know people critical of his review aren't also primarily engaging when engaged? As in, commenting on it when it is relevant to the discussion? I'm sure you're annoyed about it because you see it a lot, but there are a lot of members here. Each of them are allowed to express this opinion. It might feel like one person saying it over and over. And an individual IS allowed to say it over and over and defend their viewpoint, if someone insists on calling them on it and continuing to disputing it. They're engaging because you engage them.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Not that i put weight to Jim's comments but

It's never ever a good idea to preorder.

I did not even have Zelda Botw preordered.

So many things have went wrong with preordering games now. Even kickstarters, which i stopped doing completely. I really hope Yooka-Laylee is not one of those.

 

[maxcriden]

Game looks fun to me, the huge ass levels are a major selling point for me as well. I didn't back the game but hearing how some of the levels are lasting people 6-8 hours each I'm down buying it day one.

Each?! Do you have a source handy? That is a long time to spend in one level. (Not that I'd mind necessarily.)

 

[A Link to the Past]

How do you know people critical of his review aren't also primarily engaging when engaged? As in, commenting on it when it is relevant to the discussion? I'm sure you're annoyed about it because you see it a lot, but there are a lot of members here. Each of them are allowed to express this opinion. It might feel like one person saying it over and over. And an individual IS allowed to say it over and over and defend their viewpoint, if someone insists on calling them on it and continuing to disputing it. They're engaging because you engage them.

Again, I'd be more impressed with their engagement if people weren't at turns talking about how bad review scores are, but at the same time never discussing the contents of the review. Such a thing does nothing more than to justify that people only care about scores.

I'll actively continue to regard the people who ignore the actual review's substance as people not properly engaging, but rather mad because a game got a 7, when it deserved an 8, or a 9, heck, make it a 10/10.

 

[Messofanego]

If this game does turn out to be bad, is A Hat In Time our only upcoming non-Nintendo 3D platformer hope?

 

[Salty Hippo]

He's not wrong that you shouldn't pre-order a game blindly.

It's sound advice.

That's not what he said, he didn't speak in general terms. He specifically advised people to cancel their pre-orders for this specific game without giving any reasons other than throwing around the word "choppy" and without saying which version had those issues.

It's worthless advice.

 

[QuantumBro]

....I wait, what?

Ultimately the developers won't be able to tell if I cancel my preorder because of framerate issues or because they removed JonTron's voice, so what's the difference between my action and theirs? My steam friends will also be able to see I cancelled my preorder.

I could really use the money so I would be able to eat something besides eggs and ramen next month, but $40 is a low price to be able to not have everybody think I'm a racist so I think I'm probably going to keep my preorder.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Not surprising really. Whether its a case of content, design or performance its always looked dodgy. Every demo they've shown has had terrible performance. Its running on unity, an engine infamous for poor framerates on console aside from a few exceptions. And every stage they've shown, bar the open outdoor level has looked downright terrible, the worst offender being the casino which actually looks like ot was ripped out of the n64 era...empty environments included.

Not really sure why anyone would be shocked to hear someone suggesting holding off on that pre-order.

If this game does turn out to be bad, is A Hat In Time our only upcoming non-Nintendo 3D platformer hope?

Psychonauts 2?

 

[hank_tree]

That's not what he said, he didn't say it in general terms. He specifically advised people to cancel their pre-orders for this specific game without giving any reasons other than throwing around the word "choppy" and without saying which version had those issues.

It's worthless advice.

It's not worthless. You should cancel your pre-order. Cancel all your pre-orders.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

That's not what he said, he didn't speak in general terms. He specifically advised people to cancel their pre-orders for this specific game without giving any reasons other than throwing around the word "choppy" and without saying which version had those issues.

It's worthless advice.

Yeah

While you're at it, you should cancel all your preorders

The game will still be there after it's been critically reviewed and you can make better judgement of how it performs and plays(If that is important to you).

 

[UncleSporky]

Ultimately the developers won't be able to tell if I cancel my preorder because of framerate issues or because they removed JonTron's voice, so what's the difference between my action and theirs? My steam friends will also be able to see I cancelled my preorder.

I could really use the money so I would be able to eat something besides eggs and ramen next month, but $40 is a low price to be able to not have everybody think I'm a racist so I think I'm probably going to keep my preorder.

You could just change your steam nickname to "JonTron is racist" or "Yooka framerate " for a few months so that all your Steam friends don't get the wrong idea.

I mean, it's your money, but if it's a matter of wanting to wait for reviews AND not having to subsist on ramen?

 

[Spaghetti]

Watched some footage from the opening level (the jungle one) a week or so ago, and it seemed "as billed" to me.

Looked nicely constructed, appropriately dense, pleasantly tongue-in-cheek, and charming enough. The casino footage was a bit more sparse in terms of level design, but I'm not really seeing any major glaring flaw with it like some posts imply. I wasn't a Banjo fan and I'm pretty unfamiliar with collectathon platformers anyway, so maybe I'm missing what the cardinal sin is here.

Spoiler

Also may just be a case of internet hyperbole/mountains outta molehills.

Performance issues on console I can believe, though. Unity always seems like a "your mileage may vary" engine when it comes to consoles. Ran fine on the footage I watched, but I think that was recorded on a PC.

Could be Jim is just looking for anger fodder to wring out a few videos on.

Spoiler

I'm joking. Sorta. He does love it in a way I find a bit concerning, but I don't actually think Jim goes chasing controversy/baiting fans of stuff.

As always, just trust your own tastes if you like the look of the game. Nobody is a bastion of good taste. Nobody.

 

[Mr-Joker]

If this game does turn out to be bad, is A Hat In Time our only upcoming non-Nintendo 3D platformer hope?

I hope not considering that Jontron is in the game and the developer seemed to have said nothing about removing him.

And beside there is Sonic Forces.

 

[Fisty]

If this game does turn out to be bad, is A Hat In Time our only upcoming non-Nintendo 3D platformer hope?

Psychonauts 2 looks like it's shaping up to be something special

 

[CazTGG]

If this game does turn out to be bad, is A Hat In Time our only upcoming non-Nintendo 3D platformer hope?

There's:
-The Voodoo Vince remaster on Xbox One
-Skylar and Plux
-Project Sonic
-The Crash Bandicoot remaster
-Happy Hell

Bear in mind we may see more come E3 and that A Hat in Time has been delayed so many times that it's impossible to say it will come out this year so we're looking at upwards of 5 3D platformers in 2017, short of any of these titles being delayed.

(Seriously, check out Happy Hell, it looks bizarre in all the best ways).

Psychonauts 2?

2018.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I hope not considering that Jontron is in the game and the developer seemed to have said nothing about removing him.

And beside there is Sonic Forces.

Do the developers even say that much as it is?

Also, I almost can't blame them for not saying anything; at this point, anyone who goes against JonTron is inviting actual Nazis to brigade them.

 

[Ragelink26]

Ultimately the developers won't be able to tell if I cancel my preorder because of framerate issues or because they removed JonTron's voice, so what's the difference between my action and theirs? My steam friends will also be able to see I cancelled my preorder.

I could really use the money so I would be able to eat something besides eggs and ramen next month, but $40 is a low price to be able to not have everybody think I'm a racist so I think I'm probably going to keep my preorder.

If you're really struggling to afford food for the next month, I think people knowing whether or not you chose to cancel a preorder on a video game is the least of your problems