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NeoGAF Camera Equipment Thread | MK II

Ok, sounds good :) Is the Sony Alpas 6300/6500 worth getting? Are there others in the same price range and quality?
Depends on how you think you'll handle lenses.

Sony cameras are, bar none, the best at adapted lens options. With the right adapters, you can use Leica, Voigtlander, Nikon, Pentax, almost certainly ANY vintage manual focus lens you can imagine, will work on Sony.
You can even use modern Canon lenses, and Sigma's MC-11 adapter basically makes Sigma lenses native, more or less.

Natively, Sony is sorta weird on this. For the APSC lineup, you have their 35mm 1.8, a 50mm 1.8, and some standard zooms. They tend to punch above their class, but not quite against top end pro glass. If you were to compare, Sony's APSC lenses fall right between Canon/Nikons "consumer" lenses, and their "pro" lenses. It's weird.
Sigma also makes a handful of native APSC lenses -- the 30mm 2.8, the 30mm 1.4 (highly recommended, I've heard), and the 60mm. There's a few others I've missed, but those are the "main" ones.

As for getting more variety in focal lengths, you are more or less asked to either buy more expensive, heavier Full Frame lenses, or go with adapted lenses.

In general, you can see a trend where Sony is hesitant to make "cheap" lenses. Pretty much any time a review comes out, it's "wow holy shit IQ so good but oof price".

Personally, I use almost exclusively Samyang lenses (basically modern made MF only lenses), and it's the best camera possible to use these lenses on, so I love mine. I just bought my first native lens for my a7ii last night haha, I've yet to decide if I'll keep it.
 
You can get Sony if you don't plan on having lots of native lenses or plan on using adapted legacy glass. Sony are good at getting bodies out, but completely neglect lenses (they expect you to use oversized/overpriced FF lenses on tiny APSC bodies)

The only realistic mirrorless alternatives are Fuji and M43 (Panasonic & Olympus). Fuji was quirky in the first few years, but they've come a long way since then. Closest to your D3200 experience (APSC sensor). M43 uses a smaller sensor, but the sheer choice of camera bodies (big, small, rangefinder-like, DSLR-like, entry level, pro level) and lenses is unparalleled among mirrorless systems.

I will suggest either a Fuji X-T1 just cause they're affordable up to a certain point now or a Panasonic G7. Both are really good and light mirrorless cameras. If you really care about video then go Panasonic. Sony's are good, but at the same time you run the risk of over heating your camera, which has been a known issue for years for them, you might even be able to splurge and get a Panasonic G85 depending on what you say. Both the Panasonic's mentioned do 4K if that means anything to you.

A mirrorless camera can take the same kind of photos as a DSLR. The only difference between the two is that a DSLR has a periscope-like system to send the light coming from the lens to the view finder and a mirrorless just has the light going straight to the sensor the whole time.

For my own personal case use, I love love LOVE my Sony a6000. It's an APS-C sensor in a tiny size, so DSLR quality without all the heft. I know that Sony's lens choices aren't the greatest, but 90% of my photos are taken with my Sigma 30mm 2.8 which takes great pictures. Otherwise I have the Sigma 60mm which is an EXTREMELY sharp lens, and a couple of old manual lenses.

Manual lenses are great on mirrorless because it turns everything in focus into red, or you can do a digital zoom for extra finessing.

Here's a Youtube video demonstrating this:
https://youtu.be/V-L8l5gEIgU

Depends on how you think you'll handle lenses.

Sony cameras are, bar none, the best at adapted lens options. With the right adapters, you can use Leica, Voigtlander, Nikon, Pentax, almost certainly ANY vintage manual focus lens you can imagine, will work on Sony.
You can even use modern Canon lenses, and Sigma's MC-11 adapter basically makes Sigma lenses native, more or less.

Natively, Sony is sorta weird on this. For the APSC lineup, you have their 35mm 1.8, a 50mm 1.8, and some standard zooms. They tend to punch above their class, but not quite against top end pro glass. If you were to compare, Sony's APSC lenses fall right between Canon/Nikons "consumer" lenses, and their "pro" lenses. It's weird.
Sigma also makes a handful of native APSC lenses -- the 30mm 2.8, the 30mm 1.4 (highly recommended, I've heard), and the 60mm. There's a few others I've missed, but those are the "main" ones.

As for getting more variety in focal lengths, you are more or less asked to either buy more expensive, heavier Full Frame lenses, or go with adapted lenses.

In general, you can see a trend where Sony is hesitant to make "cheap" lenses. Pretty much any time a review comes out, it's "wow holy shit IQ so good but oof price".

Personally, I use almost exclusively Samyang lenses (basically modern made MF only lenses), and it's the best camera possible to use these lenses on, so I love mine. I just bought my first native lens for my a7ii last night haha, I've yet to decide if I'll keep it.

Thanks for answering my questions, how good is the fujifilm X-T20 and X-T2 compared to the Alpha 6500 and the old X-T1?
 
Thanks for answering my questions, how good is the fujifilm X-T20 and X-T2 compared to the Alpha 6500 and the old X-T1?

I can speak to the specific Fuji models, as I'm not super familiar with them, but in general Sony sensors provide better IQ and "hard specs" (like burst rate things like that). They also provide better RAWs. Fuji's will provide better "out of camera" results, but that doesn't affect the RAW in any way.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the A6500 is, to my knowledge, the "best" APSC camera out there. I know it was praised for having *extremely* good low light performance, and it also has a pretty amazing in body image stabilization. I don't think any other APSC camera has IBIS.

But, Fuji has a much wider lens assortment.
 
I can speak to the specific Fuji models, as I'm not super familiar with them, but in general Sony sensors provide better IQ and "hard specs" (like burst rate things like that). They also provide better RAWs. Fuji's will provide better "out of camera" results, but that doesn't affect the RAW in any way.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the A6500 is, to my knowledge, the "best" APSC camera out there. I know it was praised for having *extremely* good low light performance, and it also has a pretty amazing in body image stabilization. I don't think any other APSC camera has IBIS.

But, Fuji has a much wider lens assortment.
Thinking of upgrading to the a6300 as it has exactly the same sensor and is ~£500 cheaper.
 
I can speak to the specific Fuji models, as I'm not super familiar with them, but in general Sony sensors provide better IQ and "hard specs" (like burst rate things like that). They also provide better RAWs. Fuji's will provide better "out of camera" results, but that doesn't affect the RAW in any way.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the A6500 is, to my knowledge, the "best" APSC camera out there. I know it was praised for having *extremely* good low light performance, and it also has a pretty amazing in body image stabilization. I don't think any other APSC camera has IBIS.

But, Fuji has a much wider lens assortment.


Hmm ok, but looking at the price the 6500 is way out of my budget at 2500 euro with a lense
 
I can speak to the specific Fuji models, as I'm not super familiar with them, but in general Sony sensors provide better IQ and "hard specs" (like burst rate things like that). They also provide better RAWs. Fuji's will provide better "out of camera" results, but that doesn't affect the RAW in any way.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the A6500 is, to my knowledge, the "best" APSC camera out there. I know it was praised for having *extremely* good low light performance, and it also has a pretty amazing in body image stabilization. I don't think any other APSC camera has IBIS.

But, Fuji has a much wider lens assortment.

If you count the Sony DSLR Alpha line and Pentax DSLRs, there are other APSC cameras with IBIS.

The IBIS itself in the A6500 is competent, but nothing earth-shattering or class-leading.

With Sony, the wiser course is to wait since they tend to release cameras at short intervals, creating new market niches just to shoehorn new camera models. It's crazy the A6500 is their only APSC mirrorless camera with IBIS, certainly does not justify the price premium for that feature alone. The A6000 is long overdue for a refresh so who knows...
 
Hmm ok, but looking at the price the 6500 is way out of my budget at 2500 euro with a lense
From what I have seen the G85 has really good IBIS. I think Max Yuryev rated it better than Sony's. The Panasonic stuff is actually pretty affordable. What are your specific uses? It's hard to really recommend something without knowing the intended usage. I could recommend my current...camera's but Nikon is shit at video and nobody really needs a D810 so.....
Thanks for answering my questions, how good is the fujifilm X-T20 and X-T2 compared to the Alpha 6500 and the old X-T1?
The Fuji series has better ergonomics in my opinion. For what I usually do I don't want to do too much menu diving for everything. On top of this Fuji's aren't notorious for over heating while shooting video, which is the case with Sony, especially if you're using the 4K. Pretty much at some point I think you're going to have to walk into a store and try stuff out, it's what I always do. I also don't really like Sony grips, they're too thin in my opinion. I think the cheapest one I'd get is a Sony A7II cause it's built better than the A7 and weather sealed, but I'm not really looking to buy lenses again in focal lengths I already have.
 
The a6500 is new, but with Sony you still feel like there is a new camera around the corner. IBIS is not as good as in the Panasonic and Olympus cameras because even if the sensor is m4/3 in those, the body of the 6500 is smaller. Sony just needs to make a camera with the specs of the a6500, but without such a tiny body.
 
6500 is new, but with Sony you still feel like there is a new camera around the corner. IBIS is not as good as in the Panasonic and Olympus cameras because even if the sensor is m4/3 in those, the body of the 6500 is smaller. Sony just needs to make a camera with the specs of the 6500, but without such a tiny body.
Yeah I'm not too confident with how Sony handles their old bodies. At the very least Fuji and Olympus rolls out a good amount of firmware updates to add new things. Sony on the other hand just rolls out a new body with said updates. They really soured me a bit with how they did the 6300. It's like if Nikon rolled out a D500S or some shit six months after the D500 came out.
 
Any recommendations for cheap A mount lenses which would be suitable for shooting birds?

The best I own is a Minolta , and a Sony 200mm. I'm thinking I need something longer.

My friend is offering me a 400mm Minolta for $75.
 
135 art samples: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/1528396156/sigma-135mm-f1-8-art-sample-gallery

Smooth as butter.

0567778578.jpg
 
That is totally the Quad area on the University of Washington campus!

Was just there the other day. Crazy to see it pop up in this thread.
 
Picked up a nice FM2 today for a $20 note. Came with the 50mm 1.8 ais but I think I'll get the 1.4 ais instead. May replace my Canon A1 as my go to 35mm SLR.
 
I'm not sure I understand why brands dictate IQ, when lenses are the biggest factor. The body determines the ergonomics, weight, water resistance, price, video and burst rate.

I can take better quality images on a cheap Fuji XE1 (which is 1/10th of the price of), with a premium lens, than the a6500 with a similar lens.

iIrpmGz.jpg
 
Check out the a6300, it's 95% the camera that the a6500 is, dunno about Euros but I found a USD 950 listing at BH photo, which is a lot cheaper.

Going to do that but I want to keep my options open for other cameras too :)

From what I have seen the G85 has really good IBIS. I think Max Yuryev rated it better than Sony's. The Panasonic stuff is actually pretty affordable. What are your specific uses? It's hard to really recommend something without knowing the intended usage. I could recommend my current...camera's but Nikon is shit at video and nobody really needs a D810 so.....

The Fuji series has better ergonomics in my opinion. For what I usually do I don't want to do too much menu diving for everything. On top of this Fuji's aren't notorious for over heating while shooting video, which is the case with Sony, especially if you're using the 4K. Pretty much at some point I think you're going to have to walk into a store and try stuff out, it's what I always do. I also don't really like Sony grips, they're too thin in my opinion. I think the cheapest one I'd get is a Sony A7II cause it's built better than the A7 and weather sealed, but I'm not really looking to buy lenses again in focal lengths I already have.

Sadly the store here (El Giganten) and Expert has old cameras from 2 years ago to try out and it's like 5-7 of them. Closest is Stockholm but that is 3 hours away and I really don't know where the stores are. I'm still looking at different cameras and my god it's just a jungle. Looking at dpreviews doesn't make me any smarter on what to choose lol
 
I'm not sure I understand why brands dictate IQ, when lenses are the biggest factor. The body determines the ergonomics, weight, water resistance, price, video and burst rate.

I can take better quality images on a cheap Fuji XE1 (which is 1/10th of the price of), with a premium lens, than the a6500 with a similar lens.

iIrpmGz.jpg

You're definitely correct that the lens is a very important aspect. I would say that this was more true before digital where you could buy a really cheap body and pair it with a really nice lens and it would take as great a photo so long as you put decent quality film inside.

But digital has complicated things. Yes, the photo will look as nice as on a 6500 but the latter will have better low light capability, IBIS, etc... whether this is important to you is up to you. That's why it's great to have choice. (And heck, I would even still recommend the a6000 to anyone getting started. It's a great camera which is much cheaper than the 6500)

In any case Fuji and Sony have great systems and either will take awesome photos.
 
I just want to say I rarely use RAW files anymore with my Fuji. The JPEG colour profiles are unmatched. Honestly, I can take a random image with no thought to composition or lighting and it looks good.

If this was low-light, we'd all be shooting in RAW, regardless of specs. I suppose that in itself is a statement about the limitations of digital.
 
I just want to say I rarely use RAW files anymore with my Fuji. The JPEG colour profiles are unmatched. Honestly, I can take a random image with no thought to composition or lighting and it looks good.

Same here. I love the perks of shooting JPEG only (size, speed of treatment, capacity to work on iPad and such), and since I'm not into spending hours tweaking the pictures on Lightroom, that's quite liberating.
I usually shoot in "colour profile" bracketing mode, so I have a B&W version and another color version to choose from. Been a blast so far.
 
Same here. I love the perks of shooting JPEG only (size, speed of treatment, capacity to work on iPad and such), and since I'm not into spending hours tweaking the pictures on Lightroom, that's quite liberating.
I usually shoot in "colour profile" bracketing mode, so I have a B&W version and another color version to choose from. Been a blast so far.
Post doesn't take that long unless you don't know how to streamline your process. Yesterday I think sorted and edited 400 pictures in about 90 minutes. I ended up using about 117 of those. Would've been shorter but I don't edit buildings and other inanimate objects the same way I edit people. Now if I had been doing this set the same way I was doing it a year ago then yes it would have taken forever.
 
You can easily make a custom tone curve and color profile thats applied to your RAW files with Lightroom. Its a different workflow but I like to know I can tweak my negatives ten years from now when my ability to process has progressed. And thats usually my workflow, a tone curve that accentuates what I wanted to achieve with the scene.

But Fuji does do some special stuff with their JPEG engine.
 
You can easily make a custom tone curve and color profile thats applied to your RAW files with Lightroom. Its a different workflow but I like to know I can tweak my negatives ten years from now when my ability to process has progressed. And thats usually my workflow, a tone curve that accentuates what I wanted to achieve with the scene.

But Fuji does do some special stuff with their JPEG engine.
I do need to get better at exploring the built in options for processing the photos, at least as a starting point. I don't even know what most of them are. :x

You're definitely correct that the lens is a very important aspect. I would say that this was more true before digital where you could buy a really cheap body and pair it with a really nice lens and it would take as great a photo so long as you put decent quality film inside.

But digital has complicated things. Yes, the photo will look as nice as on a 6500 but the latter will have better low light capability, IBIS, etc... whether this is important to you is up to you. That's why it's great to have choice. (And heck, I would even still recommend the a6000 to anyone getting started. It's a great camera which is much cheaper than the 6500)

In any case Fuji and Sony have great systems and either will take awesome photos.

Yeah, that's my biggest annoyance with digital cameras, and I say this as a person that started with digital -- new body? Your body sucks.

I'm not sure I understand why brands dictate IQ, when lenses are the biggest factor. The body determines the ergonomics, weight, water resistance, price, video and burst rate.

I can take better quality images on a cheap Fuji XE1 (which is 1/10th of the price of), with a premium lens, than the a6500 with a similar lens.

iIrpmGz.jpg
Sony's sensor is better -- the JPEG engine in Fuji might be awesome, but the raw sensor in Sony is better. This is mainly a plus if you disregard native lenses -- something most people won't do, but the A7 series is sorta well known for buying for vintage lenses, so it's not unheard of. Putting a vintage lens on a Sony body will get you better results than putting it on a Fuji (Although I've heard Fuji allows you to make lens profiles which saves custom EXIF data to the photos, WHICH WOULD BE NICE).

The a6500 is new, but with Sony you still feel like there is a new camera around the corner. IBIS is not as good as in the Panasonic and Olympus cameras because even if the sensor is m4/3 in those, the body of the 6500 is smaller. Sony just needs to make a camera with the specs of the a6500, but without such a tiny body.

Between the a6000 and a6300, it wasn't too bad, but then of course the a6500 came and shat on that parade. Word is that the a6300 was delayed and for some freaking reason they didn't just wait a bit longer to release the a6500 and skip the other entirely. :/

And it's mainly a problem if you look at their A7 series as being "one" camera. If you see how they release the A7, A7r, A7s, A7II, A7RII, A7SII, yeah it's a problem, but if you look at A7, A7II, well the A7 was released four years ago. That's a quicker turn over rate than Canon or Nikon, yeah, but if you think of the A7 series all being different, well, series, then it makes a lot more sense. ("Standard" full frame, "Stupid high res FF", "Low light video FF")

If you count the Sony DSLR Alpha line and Pentax DSLRs, there are other APSC cameras with IBIS.

The IBIS itself in the A6500 is competent, but nothing earth-shattering or class-leading.
You're right, there are DSLRs with IBIS.
Was thinking APSC, Mirrorless.

As for it being "competent", we should keep in mind that APSC is a larger sensor to move around than a 4/3rds sensor, and they kept the same body size as the A6000 (something the A7 series can't say, with their only "2 stop" IBIS).


In other news, I'll be returning the 50mm 1.8 -- not as any indication of its quality (early tests look quite good), but just have other things that could use $250 before it. But, I'm confident I'll pick it up again later down the road (unless that Samyang 1.4 50mm draws my attention.)
 
When we're comparing specs such as the sensor, particularly for a topic like photography whereby technical specs are arguably bottom on the scale of importance, I think it's helpful to use real-world examples.

For instance, when comparing low-light performance, the differences between a larger, more expensive sensor and one that has been on the market for over a year, is usually seen when comparing images taken at 3200 or higher. But if you're likely to take images in that setting, you're going to be relying on your lens more so than the body's sensor. I don't know who makes their purchasing decisions based on the 6400, 51200 ISO performance.

My point being, unless you're looking for something very specific in terms of specifications i.e. amount of PDAF points, the comparisons of camera bodies in itself is largely mute because the image quality is either indistinguishable, or unrelated to the body itself.
 
I'm just going to chime in here and add the fact that Sony makes Fuji's sensors. Xtrans works differently with the layout if I'm not mistaken, but the sensors in the current Fuji's...if not all Fuji's are made by Sony.
 
http://dro.ps/b/WZAW7Rs/l

There's a massdrop deal for the Peak Design straps. Why is this important? Because Peak Design straps are, IMO, simply the best straps there are. What makes them amazing? Because when you don't want the strap, they get the hell of your camera like nobody's business. If you're using a tripod or just storing the camera in your bag, a strap can get in the way quick, so having a strap that comes off super quick and super easy (yet is still super sturdy and won't come off accidentally) is A GODSEND.

Also I guess if a bunch of people use that link MD sends me shit? Iunno all I know is you want this strap.
 
http://dro.ps/b/WZAW7Rs/l

There's a massdrop deal for the Peak Design straps. Why is this important? Because Peak Design straps are, IMO, simply the best straps there are. What makes them amazing? Because when you don't want the strap, they get the hell of your camera like nobody's business. If you're using a tripod or just storing the camera in your bag, a strap can get in the way quick, so having a strap that comes off super quick and super easy (yet is still super sturdy and won't come off accidentally) is A GODSEND.

Also I guess if a bunch of people use that link MD sends me shit? Iunno all I know is you want this strap.

Most of my cameras have Cecilia adjustable leather straps, but yeah, the Slide Lite works great on my TX-2 and Rolleiflex Automat. The normal Slide I found to be too bulky.

Interestingly my quest for a good messenger bag took years. I tried everything, cheap to premium and the Everyday messenger ended up being it.

Peak Design makes good products.
 
Both Fuji and Sony make excellent camera's.

Fuji advantages:

- Fuji handles so much better and faster than Sony. Sony has a tradition of hiding important functions in menu's. Also I love the use of an aperture ring on Fuji lenses and dedicated shutterspeed dials. No longer that boring P, S, A, M system. And you can change almost the function of all the buttons and dials. Fuji makes photography fun. You constantly want to pick it up and go out shooting.
- Also imho Fuji has better glass.

Sony advantages:

- in body stabilisation
- Raw's easier in Lightroom. Fuji Raf's are not as good in Lightroom as with other converters (the famous foliage problem). Using Iridient X-transformer ($30) to demosaic the rafs into dng to use with Lightroom solves this!
- Fuji isn't the best with video
 
I just want to say I rarely use RAW files anymore with my Fuji. The JPEG colour profiles are unmatched. Honestly, I can take a random image with no thought to composition or lighting and it looks good.

If this was low-light, we'd all be shooting in RAW, regardless of specs. I suppose that in itself is a statement about the limitations of digital.

Interesting ,I shoot RAW only on my fuji, well normally raw+jpg but hardly ever tough the jpg unless I transfer it quickly to my phone to send to someone
 
Fuji for lenses and focus on having manual dials and amazing JPG's

a6500 for video and IS + anything to do with sports or fast moving photograph.

Both are superb APS-C camera's that beat any APS-C DSLR on the market today.



I just wish Sony would put a FF sensor into a a6500 body and price it under £1000
 
Well I think I'll go with the X-T2 now, I think the dials will help a lot and there isn't that big difference between both (other than superior 1080p and 4K video on 6500)

You're gonna love it! I'm a Sony guy but ultimately, I know both cameras are amazing.

Fuji for lenses and focus on having manual dials and amazing JPG's

a6500 for video and IS + anything to do with sports or fast moving photograph.

Both are superb APS-C camera's that beat any APS-C DSLR on the market today.
Not gonna lie, I do wish the Sony cameras had Fuji's menu and dials, but IBIS and full frame were the deal breakers for me.


I just wish Sony would put a FF sensor into a a6500 body and price it under £1000

Okay now I don't think that one's gonna happen. Like ever.
 
Fuji for lenses and focus on having manual dials and amazing JPG's

a6500 for video and IS + anything to do with sports or fast moving photograph.

Both are superb APS-C camera's that beat any APS-C DSLR on the market today.



I just wish Sony would put a FF sensor into a a6500 body and price it under £1000
They probably can't cram an FF sensor into a body that small. I did a comparison once between my D600 and D7100...they're not the same size at all and they're based on the same body style, not to even throw my D810 into the equation.
 
They probably can't cram an FF sensor into a body that small. I did a comparison once between my D600 and D7100...they're not the same size at all and they're based on the same body style, not to even throw my D810 into the equation.

They crammed the a7r2 sensor on a tiny rx1r2 body. They can do it. The question is if they will.
 
They crammed the a7r2 sensor on a tiny rx1r2 body. They can do it. The question is if they will.
I keep forgetting about this since I know what it cost and immediately blank that shit out of my skull. I guess it's a matter of the price being even remotely affordable. I mean it'd have to turn some sort of profit since I never see the things in public. And...people might think I'm joking about this, but people should pay attention to what's dangling off of a Sony A7 camera. I have never seen a Sony lens on one, always adapted Canon glass. I have seen the occasional 18-105 on A6xxx bodies, or the cheaper kit lenses, but that's about it.
 
They probably can't cram an FF sensor into a body that small. I did a comparison once between my D600 and D7100...they're not the same size at all and they're based on the same body style, not to even throw my D810 into the equation.

It's the same mount so they COULD. I would definitely be interested in something like that down the line but the problem is that the bigger lenses used on the A7 line might look awkward on the compact a6xxx line.

I'd definitely like to see Sony invest in smaller Leica-like primes.
 
It's the same mount so they COULD. I would definitely be interested in something like that down the line but the problem is that the bigger lenses used on the A7 line might look awkward on the compact a6xxx line.

I'd definitely like to see Sony invest in smaller Leica-like primes.
Why would Sony want to get into the market of 6 grand cameras and up? It's already been established that they can do it but the question is can they make money off of it?
 
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