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[Sylverstone14]

It still has controls that ignore all progression the industry and the series itself made 20 years ago.

I'd say the same about various bits in Yooka-Laylee being handled in an old-school way. Also, didn't you like really hate 3D World way back?

 

[MrBadger]

Mario 3D World takes a lot of things that were frustrating about old 3D platformers and makes them more accessible, or removes them entirely. In fact, funnily enough, both the things you're complaining about are the examples I'd use. By doing what they did with the control and camera, they ensure that the player is less likely to accidentally walk off a narrow ledge or get killed by something that the camera didn't properly show them.

It's not about the game merely having those features, it's about whether or not they make for a more fun game. Do you remember when everyone criticised 2D games like Rayman, Ristar, Symphony of the Night and Yoshi's Island for being "outdated"? Would you say those games are worse games than Bubsy 3D because they don't let you move in 3 dimensions while that game does? Quite an extreme example I'd admit, but I hope my point's clear.

 

[H2intensity]

Huh? Mario 3d world is one of the best design 3d mario for me. It level design doesnt has camera problem and Champions Road prove that..its one of the hardest 3d platformer level ever design but still fair.

Edit: also it design makes children much easily get into mario 3d. My kids can't play galaxy because they think its too confusing, but they loved mario 3d world because it much easier to navigate for them.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Well ones a great game the other is mediocre. Not much else to say.

Yeah, Mario has been in a significant decline for the past few generations, I agree.

 

[FrontalMonk]

I feel like OP is comparing two totally different styles of platformer. It'd be more accurate to compare Y-L to Galaxy 2.


...jesus, and I just realized that I don't think Wii U had a single exploratory Mario game like 64/sunshine/galaxy.

 

[jroc74]

Controversial topic, but I agree.

Whats even more archaic is NSMB Wii and Wii U.

At least 3D World gave a different camera angle, and by doing that made the world larger.

The first that came to mind when I saw that thread about YL was what about 2D side scrollers...

 

[Jonneh3003]

Is Mario 3D World going to get a port for the Switch?

Unlikely but it would be nice. I wouldn't mind another "3D-" game after Odyssey. Perhaps even a Super Wario 3D Land.

 

[llehuty]

So, many reviewers complained about Yooka Laylee's "archaic" design right? What i don't understand though is, why isn't Mario 3D World bashed in reviews for the same reason?

People complain about the camera in Y-L. Sure, it's not perfect. But at least it lets you control it in order to see the environment. Mario 3D World's camera doesn't let you see areas behind you. Like at all. It's a restrictive, isometric perspective that most of the times can't even be adjusted to see your surroundings. And no, it isn't made this way for you to see better. One of the reasons i don't enjoy this game is because i can't see where i want to see. This game could have 2D isometric graphics and it would make no difference.

And how about the controls? Yooka Laylee at least respects the analog stick technology. Mario 3D World doesn't care, it could use the D-Pad and there would be no difference. You even press "B" to run. That's like the most archaic you can be.

So my question is, why a 3D game, that poses as a 3D platformer and even has 3D in it's title and plays like an isometric 2D SNES game isn't considered archaic but Yooka-Laylee that plays like a 3D N64 platformer is?

Ummm, what?

Simple =/= archaic

And also, most of the complaints you have are there are a consequence of the game's focus on multiplayer. And they are basically non issues becuase the game is designed around them in the first place. I don't think I had any single moment in which I said "I wish I could control the camera" or "damn, why it doesn't follow a 1:1 joystick movement".

 

[LordKano]

A better choice would have been Mario Sunshine which had severe camera issues. But it has also been very criticized.

 

[The Greek Freak]

One is an old school but well made game.

The other is trash with old school ideas.


Big difference.

 

[Grakl]

OP you sound salty

 

[TheJoRu]

I think the simple answer that your experiences and your problems with the controls and camera in 3D World are probably not shared by most people, or at least not to the extent you're describing it here. For me there's no comparison; Yooka-Laylee's controls and camera are much worse.

3D World is also a much better game all around, and I don't find the word "archaic" to be very fitting. It's quite simplistic in its approach, and it does want to edge closer to the kind of gameplay you see in a 2D platformer while being in 3D, but it's not "old" in nature. It's not designed to harken back to some previous era; the idea was probably the exact opposite to be honest, that it was a more modern approach as opposed to SM64-style of movement and gameplay.

With that said, it's one of the worst mainline Mario platformers. And it's still pretty great.

 

[nkarafo]

Why? The camera is pretty much fixed at all moments to give you the optimum view

It was far from optimum in my play through. All the time i wanted to adjusted it but couldn't. All the time i needed to see an area i just passed but i couldn't.

I'm not saying that isometric 2D doesn't have it's place. But in a world with 3D games that don't restrict your view, it's an archaic design. Now archaic doesn't mean bad mind you. But in Yooka-Laylee's case, apparently it is.

 

[Bulby]

Yooka Laylee is archaic in the sense that it takes a camera design that at the time was the best they could do, but doesnt really improve it to the standards of games these days.

I dont recall playing Mario and thinking this camera has all the issues inherent to a fixed camera design.

 

[Principate]

Yeah, Mario has been in a significant decline for the past few generations, I agree.

The sourest of grapes indeed.

 

[TheGamingBox]

im sorry op that you wasted money on YL, but dont try lying to justify your wasted money

 

[FreedomFighter]

Fixed cameras = archaic.

Every fighting game and 2D platformer I have ever played and will play is archaic.

 

[Skyzard]

This sounds like a very roundabout way of saying "the game is overrated"

It's alright, I liked it after setting expectations I had for a new 3D mario aside.

 

[-MB-]

Yup I thought 3D World was very mediocre. Yooka Laylee is awesome though.

PSFan

 

[nubbe]

3D World is designed for FOUR PLAYERS
Nuff said

 

[Thud]

You can say 3D World is a rather safe game, but not archaic.

The level design from previous games is perfected which results in excellent gameplay. Even with a fixed camera.

 

[Jonneh3003]

It was far from optimum in my play through. All the time i wanted to adjusted it but couldn't. All the time i needed to see an area i just passed but i couldn't.

I'm not saying that isometric 2D doesn't have it's place. But in a world with 3D games that don't restrict your view, it's an archaic design. Now archaic doesn't mean bad mind you. But in Yooka-Laylee's case, apparently it is.

I simply can't agree. My fiance and I have a recorded 60 hours in 3D World according to the activity log and not once could we adjust the camera because we were playing co-op, it was never an issue. The default view is always perfect.

If we're faulting 3D World for being archaic then we should complain about grab and run being the same button, I accidently threw her off the edge more times than I care to admit.

 

[KingSnake]

The levels in Mario 3d World are designed around its camera. And the levels are mostly wonderful designed.
And Nintendo went for this kind of camera in order to accommodate properly the multiplayer aspect of it which was one of the main "selling points".

There's no real excuse for the camera in Y-L outside the fact that it's really poorly done.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Well one is a top tier polished Mario platformer and one is a third rate inferior Banjo wannabe with worse controls and tons of glitches and jank. That could be it.

This. With one of the greatest platforming levels of all time in Champion's Road.

 

[buttdiver]

Plenty of people complained in the OT for SM3DW. But most didn't care because the game was extremely well-designed and very fun to play.

The same cannot be said of Yooka Laylee.

 

[esmith08734]

I don't think it was archaic. I was under the impression the game is akin to Super Mario World but with a light interpretation of 3D within that environment.

 

[David___]

Haven't played either but isn't 3D World essentially like the 2d sidescrollers/platformers but expanded in a 3D environment?

 

[H2intensity]

3D World is designed for FOUR PLAYERS
Nuff said

yeah this also a great point.

 

[spekkeh]

It is actually the best 3D Platformer.

 

[Camwi]

I never once had an issue with the camera in 3D World. That game was fucking fantastic.

 

[nkarafo]

mario 3d worlds gameplay is polished to a sheen you have limited control over the camera so you dont get shitty camera angles or the camera messing up the gameplay.

mario 3d worlds movement is more restrictive so that you can line up jumps and platforming sections with accuracy and ease.

That wasn't my experience at all.

Plenty of times i couldn't see where Mario is in relation to whatever is below him. If i could move the camera a bit, i would be able to see the relation. But many times you can't so i had to guess. The little shadow under him doesn't help when there are big gaps and small platforms to jump on.

 

[Stereogatari]

3D World is designed for FOUR PLAYERS
Nuff said

It's playable both ways. The thing that is noticeable is the empty space when playing 1 player. But the plat forming itself is perfectly fine for 1 player play.

 

[Octavianus]

I knew that would get a response.

 

[Plum]

It's alright, I liked it after setting expectations I had for a new 3D mario aside.

Yeah, I didn't find it to be as good as Galaxy, but I just find the idea that Nintendo games are inherently judged in a different way to be strange. It doesn't really have any basis in fact or logic other than the idea that "only Nintendo fanatics ever buy Nintendo games"

 

[Orniletter]

lol

freely rotatable camera > fixed camera

"respecting analog stick technology" > 8 directional movement

literally in every single way, because execution doesn't matter and we are just comparing things on a spreadsheet...apparently

 

[Kid Ying]

3d world disposed of some stuff to let more people play in 3d, which made it the best 3d mario ever. If YL at least tried something of the same magnitude, it would be better. I disagree with OP.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Mario 3D World is being mentioned in the same sentence as Yooka Laylee...

Mario 3D World is the second best 3D Mario game to me. It was amazing playing with multiple people.

 

[jett]

When kickstarting goes wrong.

What a bizarre thread. Yooka-Laylee's Banjo-style trash-tier collectathon-platformer is outmoded, obsolete. That's why it's archaic.

Super Mario 3D World is tried and true platforming that has held up perfectly for two decades.

p.s. SM3DW is absolutely fantastic.

 

[TheGamingBox]

That wasn't my experience at all.

Plenty of times i couldn't see where Mario is in relation to whatever is below him. If i could move the camera a bit, i would be able to see the relation. But many times you can't so i had to guess. The little shadow under him doesn't help when there are big gaps and small platforms to jump on.

just stop, you are clearly lying, anyone who has played 3d world knows this isnt true

 

[LordOcidax]

Joke thread?

 

[Realeza]

That wasn't my experience at all.

Plenty of times i couldn't see where Mario is in relation to whatever is below him. If i could move the camera a bit, i would be able to see the relation. But many times you can't so i had to guess. The little shadow under him doesn't help when there are big gaps and small platforms to jump on.

Lmao

 

[BGBW]

Yooka-Laylee is based on a game form 1998 (which in turn is based on a game from 1996)

3D World is a sequel to a game from 2011, which was a new direction for 3D Mario platformers. (You could technically see the beginnings of this model with Super Mario Galaxy, but then we're still only going back to 2007).

20 years vs 2 years.

 

[KORNdoggy]

neither the yooka-laylee nor the mario 3D world camera is archaic...but only one of them is broken

do you see why one would get criticized while the other does not?

 

[FreedomFighter]

I seem to remember a LOT of people complaining about Mario 3D World. Mainly for not being like the Galaxy games.

That was essentially what most of all the criticism boiled down to back when it was releasing.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

ITT people mistake their personal preferences not being used for "archaic game design"

Also, I reeeeally hope they make another game in this style for Switch. The multiplayer is sublime.

 

[nkarafo]

I'd say the same about various bits in Yooka-Laylee being handled in an old-school way. Also, didn't you like really hate 3D World way back?

Which is what i'm trying to say in the OP.

I don't imply that Y-L is a better game that 3D World. All i'm saying is that both games use archaic design choices yet only one of them is criticized for doing so.

 

[Bedlam]

I feel like OP is comparing two totally different styles of platformer.

Yeah, the OP's fallacy here is to declare one style archaic and the other not.

I truly despise these sort of ignorant arguments. Similar to some people claiming everything should be open-world, otherwise it's outdated.

It's not archaic to have non-3D gameplay or no camera control.

 

[Strangelove77]

This is indeed a dark day for Neogaf...

 

[Outtrigger888]

Breath of the wild is so archaic because it uses a 3D camera, I mean that's so N64 time period.

 

[KHlover]

Levels in 3D World were designed with the mostly locked camera in mind and the controls were snappy (also the levels were designed with 8-way movement and run button in mind).