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Mario 3D World is more "archaic" than Yooka-Laylee but nobody complained.
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
il Diavolo
Banned
Between this thread and whats going on in the OT, been a bad look for yooka laylee stans.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
Are we really having another argument over whether 3D world is a real 3d game.
. I haven't played Yooka-Laylee but comparing a free roam camera to a fixed camera, where both games are designed around that doesn't make sense.
You said it was like a 2D isometric game, which kind of means that you don't really consider it a 3d game.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Isn't that Sunshine.
Only thing wrong about this is easy-mode Peach.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I think gamers especially people who frequent forums just have a distorted ideas og easy and hard. 3D World is designed to be accessible. It has nothing to do with people that play Nintendo games are more forgiving and reviewers go easy on them.
But it's not Mario Sunshine...
pinkurocket
Member
This thread and some of it's replies read like a parody.
that's weird because the camera issues seem specific to yooka laylee, not free roaming games as a whole
again your argument is flawed from the jump
At least no one claimed yet that SM3DW is a 2.5D game !
nuttyevans
Member
Now I just want to go home and play some 3D World.
PSFan
Member
Sunshine is my second favorite 3D Mario after 64. I liked it far more than Galaxy or 3D World.
nkarafo
Member
Same here.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Man Sunshine was straight bad. Only 3D Mario game I will never replay.
Sunshine is the dopest shit
You don't know how hype I got when Nintendo said the next mario is more sunshine and 64
Always-honest
Banned
there is probably a quality difference. If you can't notice, have fun and play Yooka.
nkarafo
Member
Maybe it's because i didn't have a problem with YL's camera, except some parts where you can't control it (like the Rampo miniboss).
It's funny how the only parts where i had a problem with the view was for the same reasons as in 3D World. But seeing these replies here, it seems like i'm the only one.
At least Sunshine was exciting to play and was somewhat ambitious. Unlike the boring snooze fest that was 3D World where half the game feels like a tutorial with needlessly gimped movement from the previous 3D Mario games and a godawful fixed camera.
Jonneh3003
Banned
I'm not sure about easy but most of the best games are simple. It's what you do with that simplicity that makes it interesting.
Halo is a simple game where you can shoot things, hit things and man vehicles.
Uncharted is a simple game where you shoot people and climb walls.
Metroid is a simple game where you explore and shoot things.
Dark Souls is a simple game where you explore and stab things.
Complexity is often a design flaw and the vast majority of "complex games" are just simple games with additional depth. Super Mario 3D World is a "complex game", it's simple in that you just run and jump but it has depth in level design, Champion's Road is not simple.
In fact, Mario games require much more skill than most blockbusters and this has become more and more obvious to me watching my nephew play. CoD, Battelfield, Uncharted and so on, most of these games are very guided experiences that take little more than forging forward and covering/shooting, difficulty is tied to the damage you and enemies give and little else.
Mario games on the other hand require, at the very least, reflexes and coordination, finishing a level isn't as simple as insisting and marching forward until the best bullet sponge wins.
Why would you ever need that specific level of camera control in Mario 3D World? I mean more control is rarely a bad thing, but just about everything important is pretty telegraphed for you, or is hinted at you by the specific way the camera moves or how the environment is shaped.
Mario 3D World isn't considered archaic because the design decisions serve the needs of the game. Also you hold 'B' to run because the game is still designed to be played with a D-pad, in which case, those people would be left without any toggle between standard movement and a run.
Mario 3D World isn't considered archaic because the design decisions serve the needs of the game. Also you hold 'B' to run because the game is still designed to be played with a D-pad, in which case, those people would be left without any toggle between standard movement and a run.
I mean, I can make narrow arguments too. More than half of Sunshine is padding to make up for its lack of worlds with the clumsy blue coin system. Don't get me started on the camera.
I like Sunshine but let's be fair here.
It's simple but not ambitious at all. Extremely safe, standard gameplay we've been used to for years (made even safer with a fucking meowing mario). Not like a mario 64 or when they pushed out galaxy. Hell even going back to Sunshine I was excited by the world.
It's a slap in the face that they called it 3D Mario World tbh.
But it looks pretty and it controls fine so, you know, it'll do.
Its saving grace is local multiplayer, which was new in a 3D-ish mario.
herbchamberz
Member
Archaic synonyms
bsolete, out of date, old-fashioned, outmoded, behind the times, bygone, anachronistic, antiquated, old world, old-fangled
The word has negative connotation, especially in a field like video games. So if you say archaic isn't a bad thing, then maybe you meant something else.
Anyway, the difference between 3DW and YL's camera is that each of their cameras fits the style of gameplay.
3DW doesn't need a fully rotatable camera - the game was designed around that fixed-style camera - and the majority of people, including myself, who played the game agree that it works.
YL is an open-world platformer, and thus needs a fully-rotatable camera. Unfortunately, it sounds like people are saying it was poorly implemented. I have yet to play it myself, but so I'm just basing that off what I've read.
Not all games need a fully rotatable camera - it's simply a game design decision. But with every design choice, you then need to implement and execute it successfully.
bsolete, out of date, old-fashioned, outmoded, behind the times, bygone, anachronistic, antiquated, old world, old-fangledThe word has negative connotation, especially in a field like video games. So if you say archaic isn't a bad thing, then maybe you meant something else.
Anyway, the difference between 3DW and YL's camera is that each of their cameras fits the style of gameplay.
3DW doesn't need a fully rotatable camera - the game was designed around that fixed-style camera - and the majority of people, including myself, who played the game agree that it works.
YL is an open-world platformer, and thus needs a fully-rotatable camera. Unfortunately, it sounds like people are saying it was poorly implemented. I have yet to play it myself, but so I'm just basing that off what I've read.
Not all games need a fully rotatable camera - it's simply a game design decision. But with every design choice, you then need to implement and execute it successfully.
nkarafo
Member
It has 3D graphics. That's about it. It doesn't make a huge difference in it's design like, say, Mario 64 does.
Mario 64 would never work as a port on a machine that only supports 2D graphics. Most of Mario 3D World would work as a 2D isometric game.
that's fine, that's your experience and no one can invalidate that. enjoy the game.
what I'm saying is that you're trying to make it sound like yooka laylee's issues are just standard for the subset of game that it is (free roaming) and that its issues were unavoidable because of that which is not true in the slightest. there are loads of free roaming games that don't have the issues that yooka laylee does. your argument is flawed and seems built on "eh, they couldn't have done any better. so they fucked up, it's a free roaming game, what do you want?".
if the level design in 3d world is safe and unambitious please present me with a game that is not. I'l wait..
pinkurocket
Member
Shil Pencer
Member
As a huge Mario 64, Galaxy 1-2, sunshine fan I absolutely hated Mario 3D world on Wii U. I found it to be easy, bland and the multiplayer was just slapped in because it needed it. I thought maybe it was the children who were wrong and not me...and when I saw the trailer for odyssey I came to the conclusion that yes the children were wrong because odyssey looks phenomenal.
I played a little bit of Yooka and it definitely deserves its criticism but I feel the heart is in it more than Mario 3D world but again I must be a monster because I just don't understand how that game gets so much praise
I played a little bit of Yooka and it definitely deserves its criticism but I feel the heart is in it more than Mario 3D world but again I must be a monster because I just don't understand how that game gets so much praise
Ummmmmmm
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Technically we hadn't seen 3D Mario in a 2D style before 3D land and world, the difference is there wasn't a more a more cut down version of Galaxy available handhelds before it released etc otherwise you wouldn't really be able call that ambitious either.
Randomizer
Member
Super Mario 3D World is restrictive on purpose. Following on from 3D Land's philosophy of a 3D Mario with elements from the more accessible 2D games. The limited controls and fixed camera is for players that find true 3D Mario's complex and difficult. This philosophy is also present in the linear level design.
The restrictive mechanics and short linear nature of the level design allowed for mountains of experimentation, variety and creativity. So much so that some really interesting and clever design are only used once or twice throughout the entire game. For those who were disappointed and just wanted Galaxy 3 I can understand your frustration. But Nintendo strives and in taking their existing franchises and making each entry feeling fresh and different. Having something fresh and original is more exciting to me than just repeating an already established formula, no matter how excellent it may be.
The restrictive mechanics and short linear nature of the level design allowed for mountains of experimentation, variety and creativity. So much so that some really interesting and clever design are only used once or twice throughout the entire game. For those who were disappointed and just wanted Galaxy 3 I can understand your frustration. But Nintendo strives and in taking their existing franchises and making each entry feeling fresh and different. Having something fresh and original is more exciting to me than just repeating an already established formula, no matter how excellent it may be.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
One question. How? 3d world would not work as a 2d game. Nothing about it works in 2d, it's free roam and is designed with full 3D environments. It is impossible to bring 3d world into 2d without sacrificing a lot of what made 3d world good.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Sunshine has about 40 shines that are fun to play (maybe a bit more or less I haven't really counted). Rest of it is either broken, feels like a chore, or is pure padding with no actual fun platforming involved. It also really lack variety in environment.
Sunshine has a great move set though, too bad it doesn't really leverage it.
Edit: Oh I forgot swimming, for a game with so much water in it, Sunshine probably has some of the worst swimming mechanics in a high budget 3D game.
WeirdoStalkerJr
Member
Time for cryptic metaphor!!!!
My fist is Super Mario 3D world
This random guys intestines are Yooka Laylee
Super Mario jams itself down guys throat and rips out intestines.
Your opinion is invalid I win.
My fist is Super Mario 3D world
This random guys intestines are Yooka Laylee
Super Mario jams itself down guys throat and rips out intestines.
Your opinion is invalid I win.
nkarafo
Member
Okay.
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This is the type of game that most game magazines and articles would describe as isometric 2D. If it's the wrong words educate me about the right ones.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Okay.
This is the type of game that most game magazines and articles would describe as isometric 2D.
Oh my comparison a few posts up was a joke. You actually think you could remake 3D World in a Super Mario RPG style?
The Horror the horror
Banned
Mario 3D world is superb.
YL succeeds in what it wanted to accomplish, namely being a spiritual successor to a line of games from a developer that has traditionally set style and presentation above gameplay.
YL succeeds in what it wanted to accomplish, namely being a spiritual successor to a line of games from a developer that has traditionally set style and presentation above gameplay.