Hillary Clinton is ready to join the resistance
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The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Six years ago the milquetoast ACA caused this country to lose its mind in frothing anger, and frankly I trust that actual exercise in voting over what opinion polls say. The reaction to the ACA wasn't just opposition, it was visceral hatred from the right
EDIT: I mean I think that approval is so high because the right hasn't had a chance to dig into any real proposals yet.
Yup
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
all around.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Bernouts or Bernie Busters works a lot better because they're not truly ideologically left, they're just a cult of personality for Sanders much like the one around Ron Paul. (I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of them aren't just former Paulites) I voted for Bernie in the primaries to help show that there was a place for more European style social democracy in America, I knew he would most likely lose and he did so I voted Hillary like I had planned. Hillary adopted a lot of his platform which was quite heartening, but Bernouts really like to actively reject this and show that have no idea of how our government works and that campaigns need money,and that they're only it for that cult around Bernie instead of genuinely wanting to make the country a better place. If they truly adhered to progressivism and socialism they would work towards achieving their goals alongside other like-minded parties and realize politics is an imperfect and arduous process. Bernie Busters just do nothing but throw tantrums because they just want to feel superior to other people and don't really want to help the country as a whole, they'd rather watch the country burn and millions suffer to keep that moral superiority high going. It's almost to point I regret even voting for Bernie in the first place because I think he's just buying into his own cult now too and not willing to work with Democrats to help save the country.
TestOfTide
Banned
Nothing systematic about it. Obama was too confident that he could easily get republican support.
And Medicare for all loses a lot of its popularity when people hear about the taxes involved with it.
I already pointed out where you were defending Russian hegemony in the response to that very post. Which you responded to by doubling down on your attempt to take away the factor of third party nations' autonomy.
And it's not ad hominem when my response was directly related to your question of "where does the "alt" come from".
And congrats to you for this 910 posts in.
She won the popular vote in the primaries.
She won the popular vote in the general election.
YOU may not like her, but Hillary Clinton is a popular figure. Step out of your bubble.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That doesn't count when your response is a strawman.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hi she's giving money and raising money for activists groups so they can operate...
She's not running for office... this her doing work as a private citizen.
She is "out"
No. In fact, you missed the point. Let's call it quits - this isn't going anywhere. I don't have the patience for you anymore.
then get out of the spotlight and stop talking about how you could've won the election.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
If Hillary were getting involved with the party on a strategic or hands-on way, I could see the anger, but it's odd to see people get upset at Clinton using her one indisputable talent to basically keep the Dem tank full of gas.
Are we ignoring how fast the democratic candidates ran away from the popular sitting president during the 2010 campaign?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/15/AR2010081502551.html
Yep, sure. Let's blame Obama instead of the candidates that didn't want Obama to appear anywhere near them back in 2010 even though he was more popular than them and could've helped them along.
I know everyone has the memory of a chipmunk nowadays and wants to run away from Obama again...again, despite him being more popular than those they are caping for, but how about we actually learn from our past mistakes and don't pretend that the most popular guy in the room doesn't exist next time.
Like Trump I don't think people know how to read.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm sorry I think you're in the wrong thread.. the other Clinton is Satan thread is here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1367851
This article doesn't even quote Clinton it's Howard Dean doing all the talking.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I think we have to say yes and no here. Speaking American politics, supporting the concept of a free market is a pretty vague concept, as I think all Americans fundamentally support a free market from the American Left to the American Right so it's not inherently liberal or conservative. We've all been raised that way, none of us would even consider anything other than a free market as the basis of our economic system.
However, a majority of liberals diametrically opposed the TPP for instance, as it was a dramatically overreaching expansion of multinational corporate power. American liberals don't oppose free trade in a general sense, but trade agreements like TPP aren't about trade and never were from the beginning.
As for free movement, I will again say that movement of labor cannot ever be inherently free because we're talking about humans here. Continued existence of nation-states with defined borders serves as checks and balances to the powers of multinational corporations which can shift capital around the world at a moment's notice. Protection of labor in this world must start with defined borders because some nations are completely anti-unionization and labor rights like America and others are supportive like most EU nations. Destruction of nation-states would also bring labor protections to a worldwide lowest common denominator, which is basically the American system exported worldwide. How about no.
TestOfTide
Banned
My response was literally quoting his post. I mean since you LITERALLY looked for the thread for Dopus I assumed you would remember the part where I directly quoted him.
But anyway:
I didn't miss the point, but sure lets end it here.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Um, no, your direct response to that post of mine was this:
I don't see any literal quoting of anything except my post.
PS. Actually I didn't look for the thread. He got it himself.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm excited to see where the funds go, I imagine this will help abortion rights activists fight their state by state fights because abortion is probably the issue most at risk in a prolonged conservative reign that flips the Supreme Court
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Then why the fuck are you still replying and posting?
Geeze, if anyone has attitude, it's you.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
just bought this shirt in preparation.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I have no idea how support of free trade and "open borders" gets mixed in with things like privatization of public services
Reeks of (((globalism))) tbh
Reeks of (((globalism))) tbh
Yikes. I tried to end it on a lighter note. What's your problem?
excelsiorlef
Member
God knows environmentalists will need some money too, so I'm sure they'll be very grateful for an influx of cash.
I like Hillary Clinton and I think Bill was one of the greatest President's we've ever had. But her just coming out is going to put more emphasis on the election which our stupid fuck president is fixated on. She's got to go away. I don't hate her, I like her, but people REALLY HATE HER. The Dems need all the help and support we can get. She isn't helping. She won't help by being in the public. She can donate and fundraise, but she should do it all behind the scenes. She has to leave.
I don't understand why the debating part is a problem. I certainly don't think I've been rude in this thread. It's an important point because it's entered the discourse, whether or not anyone wants that to be true.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
All of them reflect market oriented principles. Free trade wants to create optimal markets by removing trade barriers to create competitive markets, open borders wants to create competitive labor markets, and privatization (and the corresponding austerity) wants to create market solutions to public goods rather than have the state provide them.
I mean, I'm pro-open borders and kinda pro-free trade so it's not all anti-socialist but it's all part of a reasonably coherent ideology.
omg
excelsiorlef
Member
Did I call you rude? Or even mention you at all?
Ohh I hope some money goes to Trans rights activists in Texas and North Carolina to fight the bathroom bills.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Hello.... this is what she's doing! Jesus.
You'd figure people with such strong opinions would read what they are getting so up in arms about.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hi this article is about Howard Dean speaking about a private citizens' initiative... he just happened to mention Clinton is working on it with him too...
Man could you imagine if some of the money went to anti-police brutality activists, I'm sure they'd have good use for some of this money
TestOfTide
Banned
Again, Clinton is planning to do this shit being the scenes. She knows she can't be the actual face of the party.
Like yeah, Clinton SUCKS as rallying people. But if there is one thing she has been amazing at since at least 2007, it's fundraising.
Let Clinton gather the funds so that we have the money for a real 50 state strategy.
I'm mostly excited at the possibility of a fully funded 50 state strategy.
Do you know how many conversations I've had with women where I'm Pro-Hillary and women are Anti-Hillary? Where I talk about what she believes in and would help them immeasurably in comparison to Trump and they still don't trust her?
It's baffling and upsetting. I don't like it at all. She makes people angry and irrational. That's not what this country needs right now. And it's absolutely misogyny in this country. But conservatives and moderate democrats rally against her. We can't have that. Seriously, we're on the cusp of getting moderate Republicans against Trump and she comes out of the fucking woodwork talking about the election again. IT'S FUCKING OVER. WE'RE ON THE BRINK OF PASSING AN AWFUL HEALTHCARE BILL, GOING INTO TRADE WARS AND POSSIBLY STARTING A NEW CONFLICT OVERSEAS. ALL EYES SHOULD BE ON HOW TRUMP IS FUCKING UP. THE ONE THING HE CAN ARGUABLY HANG HIS HAT ON IS HE BEAT HER AND HERE SHE COMES AGAIN. FUCK ME.
And she's in such a unique position where people are itching to contribute, but have no source or direction that they trust to throw money at. As much as people want to squabble about past slights, but there are a far larger number of responsible folk out there know that in our lifetimes we have got to do better. And she can pull it all in one giant net so very quickly and get shit moving.
Sirpopopop
Member
Being market focused, in and of itself, does not make something 'neoliberal' according to the classical definition. In that case, it's essentially reduce taxes, and reduce govenrment intervention. In the classical definition, the ACA and charter schools wouldn't be neoliberal at all.
In the definition you are employing, is any time the government works with the private sector, neoliberalism?
Good luck finding someone in the U.S. who isn't a neoliberal then.
Sure, that's cool, but her most recent view on the matter is to support Social Security. It's the same thing with TPP. We can argue back and forth on her true beliefs, but neither of us are HRC. All of we have to go by are the public statements.
This is fair, but I do think your view on what makes someone neoliberal is far different from mine. Regardless, I do disagree with you here that one word dismissals of a person's platform are a valid attack angle for anyone.
Then Howard Dean needs to shut the FUCK UP. Hillary said that Comey and Russia cost her the election and she's goddamn right. But she needs to be quiet.
TestOfTide
Banned
You know what. I will actually concede that Howard Dean runs his mouth way too much and he shouldn't have let everyone know that a controversial figure would be funding things behind the scenes.
Being a democrat means insisting that nothing good is possible and then being shocked when voters don't find your vision of the future compelling.
he blew his own run by having stupid shit come out of his mouth.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hi this is about funding thinks like maybe LGBT adoption groups to fight religious laws in southern states if you'd like to bitch about Hillary's interview and tell her to shut up when she's actually speaking instead of when she's not that's over here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136785
It's not that I dislike her; I happily voted for her, & would've done so even if she was against an innocuous opponent. It's just that GAF's one of the few places where I see an overwhelming abundance of support for her, especially if we're counting real life (Weren't we, like, one of the Top 10 pro-Clinton sites during the election? Even including her own sites?). Elsewhere, it's maybe 1 or 2 impassioned supporters with the rest just being modest respect.
Plus, regardless of what you guys believe, she's definitely been painted as "the establishment" to both the far left & the on-the-fence conservative, who are the people who need to be involved the most. I'm glad she's getting involved, but I definitely don't see her as a good fit for the front lines. Test Of Tide has it best with her being perfect for fundraising, but rallies would be better suited for someone like Warren or (Dare I say it) Sanders.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
err, what?
I don't disagree with anything here, but her funding behind the scenes is a nothing burger imo. And cmon, you really think were going to capture moderate Republicans with progressive policies? Ain't happening.
All eyes should be on Trump, which is exactly why this thread being 20 pages because people are FREAKING OUT about "neoliberal Shillery" is so frustrating.
If simply hearing her name fuels deep-seeded hatred within someone, they should seek counseling. Seriously.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Jesus Christ this thread's deplorable. As an outsider, you Americans absolutely deserve the hell out of Trump if this is how you guys respond to support.
TestOfTide
Banned
Well then you should be HAPPY about the OP news then. Because that's exactly what the article describes her as doing.
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