I can understand the feeling that the start of the film is rushed. We are told stories in flashbacks within flashbacks. Also I'm not sure how reliable her mother is in narrating those stories about gods, since she lied about part of it to Diana and don't have a full understanding. We also only see Sir Patrick a few times before his turn into Ares. I really wish these films don't force in a final boss fight when there is no need to, that goes for Logan as well.
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Wonder Woman |OT| The World is Ready for You, Gal Gad [SPOILERS]
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I can understand the feeling that the start of the film is rushed. We are told stories in flashbacks within flashbacks. Also I'm not sure how reliable her mother is in narrating those stories about gods, since she lied about part of it to Diana and don't have a full understanding. We also only see Sir Patrick a few times before his turn into Ares. I really wish these films don't force in a final boss fight when there is no need to, that goes for Logan as well.
Gal Gadot deserves nearly all the praise for this film. Pine was great, but she sells it. Snyder made an amazing casting choice and Jenkins brought the home run with her.
Other than that, the movie works because it doesn't treat the world and people in it as props or background fodder. They affect the hero and the hero affects them, much like in BvS (particularly the extended cut). Other cape flicks only pay lip service to these concepts, and ultimately ring hollow and cynical. Snyder's and Jenkins' movies actually acknowledge the reality of the worlds they're set in. It's less manchildren smashing things with toys, and more people giving actual thought to how to convey how our worlds affects these heroes and vice versa. DCU continues to be the only cape movies worth caring about, outside the odd decent Fox flick here or there.
Other than that, the movie works because it doesn't treat the world and people in it as props or background fodder. They affect the hero and the hero affects them, much like in BvS (particularly the extended cut). Other cape flicks only pay lip service to these concepts, and ultimately ring hollow and cynical. Snyder's and Jenkins' movies actually acknowledge the reality of the worlds they're set in. It's less manchildren smashing things with toys, and more people giving actual thought to how to convey how our worlds affects these heroes and vice versa. DCU continues to be the only cape movies worth caring about, outside the odd decent Fox flick here or there.
But he suggested, they chose to do it.
Like I can suggest that you post that Hawkman is the best character ever. But you'd have to post it, I can't make you do it. That's Ares in this film.
He's just someone for WW to beat up, humanity is presented as both hero and villain. WW learns that, and still chooses to believe they can be better.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Im going to say it.
while Gal certainly isn't the best actor, her as Wonder Woman is my single favorite *live action* super hero/actor combo.
The scene on the boat when she was talking about freeing the Germans and how Steve would see...
Just destroyed me.
Some of the best feeling innocence and naivety I can recall.
while Gal certainly isn't the best actor, her as Wonder Woman is my single favorite *live action* super hero/actor combo.
The scene on the boat when she was talking about freeing the Germans and how Steve would see...
Just destroyed me.
Some of the best feeling innocence and naivety I can recall.
Yes.
She isn't perfect in all her delivery, but the spirit she imbues in the character is beyond nearly any other actor/hero performance I can think of. Her smile literally lights up the screen.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Yup.
A Link to the Past
Banned
As a viewer, I was not given sufficient buildup for Ares as a character (one who is apparently a big deal in the WW universe). He appears in like, five scenes:
1. The speech
2. The appeal to the top brass (1 and 2 could just as well be the same thing TBH)
3. The bar
4. The phone call
5. The final fight
Hence my issue with him being introduced and taken out so quickly. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of not having such a big bad in the film, and making the nature of mankind Diana's antagonist. It'd be a bold thing to do in a comic, to have the answer not be so simple, for the villain to not be so simple. Maybe give Dr. Poison and General Ludendorff a bit more capability against Diana - ie, having what Ludendorff took make him more capable than he was.
Fast Forward
Member
It's all about context.
Yes, Wonder Woman is not perfect. Personally, while I think Act 1 is far/away the best act, Act 2 drags a bit in certain parts, act 3 not exactly the best bit, and villain could have been better, among other problems. So, yeah, the movie is not perfect.
But considering where we we coming from in the DCEU, this movie was a huge step in the right direction, and at the end of day, this movie was really good. Diana, in particular, was a genuinely likable superhero from the DCEU for once. Honestly, this movie left me wanting more from her, and really, when you are leaving me wanting more, despite any flaws, you have done your job right. Like, by a lot.
That's kinda the core of my argument though. Would not that lesson have been better served had he not been there to spell it out so plainly? It still works out okay, sorta, so I'm not really married to my argument I'm just saying it might have been an ounce better in this other way.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But they do spell it out - ending the evil in mankind's heart is not as simple as she would like it to be.
I know they did. My point is they have to. Just like Alfred clearly needed to look at the camera and say "this isn't a dream."
Lol. I must have missed that one.
Still, bit of a shame all the same on that last point, don't you think?
I still thought it was a fun movie. Rather excited for Justice League but we'll see how that goes.
RainbowIslands
Member
Just went to watch it based on reviews a couple hours ago. It was great. Given though, I haven't watched GotG2 (maybe on an airplane?) and Logan (yet, waiting for UHD BD to be out here).
It really brought out the "classic heroism in a complicated world" theme better than BvS; and it goes so well with the general plot of Diana stepping out of the naïve confines of Themyscira into a conflicted, pluralistic world where killing the big baddy won't solve all the problems. BvS had too much on its plate that kinda convoluted its message at the end.
I'm not sold on some of the acting (the off-moments + humor definitely could be improved), but I really like how they build the world, and the shifts between life (dancing, buying clothes) and death(war and fights) made the wartime believable. It made me feel for the people there in WWI, who probably had to struggle between the two. Too bad everyone in the village had to die, but I guess that's why nobody knew about WW? The movie also ended in a more hopeful mood than what I expected, considering (the more gloomy) Diana in BvS, but I digress.
Most of the common plot holes are somewhat covered (ex. "Why won't anyone just shoot her legs!"( it bounced off her armor) and "Why do they speak English?" (Amazonians can speak every language)) so I'm all good. They laid out threads early on for most of the major developments, except the "he is Ares" twist, so that's good as well.
Maybe a bit less green screen/CG effects and change that color grading/filter then it would be a better movie, but I guess they did the same in BvS (and Man of Steel, I think, didn't watch that), so I guess it's a continuation of that. I like how they continued with the "bouncing around" typical of DC, as well as how Diana wasn't shown killing (most were blunt hits or arrows) until Ludendorf.
All and all, made me excited for Justice League.
It really brought out the "classic heroism in a complicated world" theme better than BvS; and it goes so well with the general plot of Diana stepping out of the naïve confines of Themyscira into a conflicted, pluralistic world where killing the big baddy won't solve all the problems. BvS had too much on its plate that kinda convoluted its message at the end.
I'm not sold on some of the acting (the off-moments + humor definitely could be improved), but I really like how they build the world, and the shifts between life (dancing, buying clothes) and death(war and fights) made the wartime believable. It made me feel for the people there in WWI, who probably had to struggle between the two. Too bad everyone in the village had to die, but I guess that's why nobody knew about WW? The movie also ended in a more hopeful mood than what I expected, considering (the more gloomy) Diana in BvS, but I digress.
Most of the common plot holes are somewhat covered (ex. "Why won't anyone just shoot her legs!"( it bounced off her armor) and "Why do they speak English?" (Amazonians can speak every language)) so I'm all good. They laid out threads early on for most of the major developments, except the "he is Ares" twist, so that's good as well.
Maybe a bit less green screen/CG effects and change that color grading/filter then it would be a better movie, but I guess they did the same in BvS (and Man of Steel, I think, didn't watch that), so I guess it's a continuation of that. I like how they continued with the "bouncing around" typical of DC, as well as how Diana wasn't shown killing (most were blunt hits or arrows) until Ludendorf.
All and all, made me excited for Justice League.
Every time I saw him I was thinking how strange it is to see him playing a good guy. Little did I know haaha.
What's up with Ludendorff holding a gala a couple miles away from where the allies made a massive breakthrough in the lines? Seems like a poor place to invite the German elite.
The captain falcon knee Diana dished out to dude in the house gave me life.
Liked the movie. Gal was charming, adorable and powerful. Carried the movie and was the perfect casting - doubters gotta hold that.
Ares looked cool. But the Dceu is going through all their most powerful villains. At this point all we got left is brainac and darkseid. (Supergirl as a villain would be dope too)
Liked the movie. Gal was charming, adorable and powerful. Carried the movie and was the perfect casting - doubters gotta hold that.
Ares looked cool. But the Dceu is going through all their most powerful villains. At this point all we got left is brainac and darkseid. (Supergirl as a villain would be dope too)
They still have room for a Legion of Doom or a Vandal Savage.
BvS should have ended against Metallo though, not Doomsday.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
It wasn't perfect but I liked it a lot.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Amazing movie. I loved it.
MrCunningham
Member
I saw the movie tonight, and overall I feel it is good but not great. I do like Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, to be honest. I do kinda wish she was a little more muscular, but overall, I do not hate this interpretation of the character. Her and Chris Pine are really great in their roles. I think Chris Pine sold his character well.
The plot is a little bit by the numbers, but to be honest, I was expecting that. This is the first Wonder Woman movie made. I do think the first act was the strongest. I did like the island of Themyscira and its lush brightly coloured visuals. I did like seeing Dianna go from being a child to an adult. I also enjoyed
The second act was alright too, it had some good moments. The third act was a little cliche, this is where I felt the movie dragged.
But overall, this was not the train wreck that was reported during filming.
I won't go into spoiler territory. But I think this is a solid enough origin movie for Wonder Woman and a good introduction to the character.
The plot is a little bit by the numbers, but to be honest, I was expecting that. This is the first Wonder Woman movie made. I do think the first act was the strongest. I did like the island of Themyscira and its lush brightly coloured visuals. I did like seeing Dianna go from being a child to an adult. I also enjoyed
the scene where the German battleship entering their invisible island. It was a very cool visual shot.
But overall, this was not the train wreck that was reported during filming.
I won't go into spoiler territory. But I think this is a solid enough origin movie for Wonder Woman and a good introduction to the character.
Hah. Anti-Monitor, Mandrakk, Mingus, Black Lantern Corps, Highfather having one of his breakdowns, Johnny Sorrow, Lobo, The Emerald Eye, Nekron, Mordu, and Superboy Prime.
You go deep into DC and you see some weird shit.
trikster40
Member
By any movie standards, you mean.
nocturnalis
Member
I loved it so much! And that lightning redirect! Uncle Iroh would be proud.
PhantomZone
Member
It was the best bit of Batman v Superman by far!
Glad it's retained in the solo Wonder Woman movie!
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I disagree. Ares was whispering all sorts of shit into her ear, and sparing her life shows that WW fully believes in the ability of people to change.
BossDarkseid
Member
If they do Mandrakk as the villain of a JL film they should really just get Grant Morrison to write the script and inject LSD into the eyeballs of the Director of Cinematography and then see if anyone understands Morrison doing a cosmic vampire.
Although Superboy Prime is insufferable, I kinda like that he's a pastiche of the die hard fanboys who bitch and whine on forums about things - turned up to 11. Just because I feel like a lot of people wouldn't get it >_>
Shadow-Link
Banned
It's and awesome theme, I don't get the hate. Besides, it was toned down compared to BvS and I think it was only played twice.
Yes, I'm glad they made that scene a pivotal point for the movie. Elena Anaya didn't quite get the screentime her character deserves, but seeing her cry in that scene really made me symphatize for her character.
broncobuster
Banned
Of the villains, Doctor Poison had the most depth and I would've liked to see more. Her scene with Steve at the party was sad as well.
Preach to the heavens
It's not even about context. It was just a good movie. That's not overselling anything.
I'd have a hard time believing most people who see this movie don't come out of it enjoying what they saw and being more hype on Gadot and Wonder Woman ok general. She really portrayed Diana so good.
I'd have a hard time believing most people who see this movie don't come out of it enjoying what they saw and being more hype on Gadot and Wonder Woman ok general. She really portrayed Diana so good.
BossDarkseid
Member
Yeah. It was kinda impressive that they avoided her feeling like a moustache-twirling villain - Ludendorf served that role I suppose. It felt like they were quite economical with the time in that scene.
Her and Huston corpsing as they used the mustard gas was ridiculously cartoonish and hilarious.
I'd love to see her back somehow. Weird how a minor villain in a DCEU film is one of the more memorable comic book ones.
The only person I trust for Final Crisis is Zack Snyder. Because he would shoot the fucking Hell out of it and roll with every absurdly awesome moment.
Well, that's your opinion and all, but it would seem the world at large disagrees.
Merriweather
Member
Saw it last night, and while I liked it a lot I wouldn't put it in the upper tier of superhero movies. After all the hyperbole dies down I think people will see it as the average superhero flick it is, but even a average film is a success for DC at this point.
Gal Gadot & Chris Pine had great chemistry with each other. Gadot fits the role very well, but I did feel like she oversold the doe eyed innocent outsider looks at times. And there were a few moments where she seemed to lose her accent completely.
Ares was a boring villain though. The identity reveal was completely telegraphed though and the 3rd act was just another CGI battle sequence that doesn't stand out at all.
All the slow-mo in the battle scenes was distracting. I know Zach Snyder is the Producer and that's kind of his "thing" but it was overdone and they should have let Patty Jenkins do her own thing.
Overall I enjoyed it. And my wife, who had no interest in seeing it at all a few works ago, thought it was great. Build on this, please, DC.
Gal Gadot & Chris Pine had great chemistry with each other. Gadot fits the role very well, but I did feel like she oversold the doe eyed innocent outsider looks at times. And there were a few moments where she seemed to lose her accent completely.
Ares was a boring villain though. The identity reveal was completely telegraphed though and the 3rd act was just another CGI battle sequence that doesn't stand out at all.
All the slow-mo in the battle scenes was distracting. I know Zach Snyder is the Producer and that's kind of his "thing" but it was overdone and they should have let Patty Jenkins do her own thing.
Overall I enjoyed it. And my wife, who had no interest in seeing it at all a few works ago, thought it was great. Build on this, please, DC.
broncobuster
Banned
I remember Patty Jenkins talking about how Ludendorff was, in a sense, close to what Ares is in the real world. Someone about perpetuating warfare and conflicts.
And I think Doctor Poison is an example of him taking a brilliant scientist in Dr. Maru and influencing her to make terrible weapons to suit his goals. Not to absolve Maru of her misdeeds, but you see a tinge of regret when talking with Steve Trevor.
That and it's a parallel. Ludendorf is a soldier who corrupts a damaged woman, Diana is a warrior who gives hope to a disillusioned spy.
Diana saving Maru's life is essentially her saying that no one is beyond redemption. Which is some maturity she sure wasn't showing earlier on and great set up for the Cheetah stuff.
And man, Cheetah vs WW is going to be one Hell of an action scene.
Ikr haha I was like "WTF is this cartoon shit" but then it became endearing. The whole movie was too innocent.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
I also loved how reports had Diana not know what sex was but she was giving mega "we gonna bang?" vibes to Steve on the boat and he looked so confused.
The theme kicks ass.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
After sleeping on it a bit, man that boat scene is seriously my favorite part of this movie.
Its such little stuff but really had an impact on me.
Its such little stuff but really had an impact on me.
It is great.
crisdecuba
Member
That's her actual accent though. Not one she was putting on for the film.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Watching Dr Poison and Ludendorff be murder dorks and giggling over poisoning people to death was both surreal and strangely endearing.
Wonder Woman walking through No Mans Land and tanking shot after shot is tied with Kick Ass's Hit Girl saving Big Daddy as my all time favourite action scene from a comic book movie.
Wonder Woman walking through No Mans Land and tanking shot after shot is tied with Kick Ass's Hit Girl saving Big Daddy as my all time favourite action scene from a comic book movie.
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