Tao Pai Pai kills people with his tongue, travels on a tree that he throws, and deflects bullets with his slippers.
We were not worthy of him being in this game.
Dragon Ball FighterZ - Characters, Specials, and Stages Discussion
- Thread starter Crazy Diamond
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Tao Pai Pai kills people with his tongue, travels on a tree that he throws, and deflects bullets with his slippers.
We were not worthy of him being in this game.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
My bet is;
Omega as he's GT unique, has a shitton of abilities and is arguably on a par with villains in Super
Gogeta as he fills a movie slot too, has a pretty cool move set and SSJ4 is popular.
Pan hasn't anything really unique to bring to the table.
Beerus is almost certain to be in, no need to worry there.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Black needs to be in.
Honestly forgot he could make clones. He really needs to make it in lol
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Black seems like a character right up ArcSys' alley. Think Testament from Guilty Gear
A rose by any other name, is still Goku.Black needs to be in.
I can understand where your coming from on that. Linda Young was indeed best Freiza.
I just consider Yo Goku and his friends return+the 2 movies+Super as their own kind of continuity separate from the DB/Z/GT continuity we knew for decades, and just watch it as its own sort of thing.
It will never be an actual extension of original DB in my mind, but as an excuse for merchandising opportunities for Toei and fanservice for the characters to come back doing with different things, it could be a lot worse than it is. In popcorn entertainment factor its easier to just ignore the details and just enjoy it
lolwut? Christopher Ayres is truly THE Frieza who actually comes close to the Japanese VA & doesn't sound like a chain smoker.
Then again, you consider GT canon & not Super.
Black needs to be in.
Feels like this thread is just looping
You're not wrong.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
It's a roster discussion thread so, no surprises there lol
MajinSweet4
Member
GT also massively reduced the complexity of the shows format. By the end it's basically, Pan acts dumb, Goku has to save her for like, at least a dozen episodes. It's actually pretty insulting how lazy it gets. And the characters in general are just way less interesting and hardly have any sort of fun or meaningful interactions with each other.
I don't judge english VA quality by their similarities to the original seiyuu, its a ridiculous comparison and would likely disqualify the best dubs around from being 'legitimate'.
As for the debates about legitimacy, i can tell you that i don't really care the fandom interpretation for what is 'canon' for DB honestly. That doesn't mean i'm saying Super is not officially legitimate as its own thing, of course it is, just like the MMO game the concept of the multiverse was introduced in and expanded on with dragonball heroes which fully includes GT elements.
Its just that, Super is new, and DB/DBZ/DBGT+DB/DBZ/DBGT movies have been established property in anime form for many years.
In anime terms, they are all canon in their own specific ways to begin with. Its not as if toei and others don't acknowledge GT as apart of the DB world even today in merchandising and other things despite super and the 'new' super additions existing, its just an alternate timeline(hence why they introduced kale despite broly coming from a non canon movie), so why would it be wrong to consider it as a legitimate as a fan?
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
It shows them love by giving them random and totally unrealistic "ass-pull" power ups.
I'd hardly call that better. It's more enjoyable in some respects, but far less believable.
Eh, Super is incredibly lazy about how they handle side characters. It's easy to put Gohan in a gi again if you don't care about his arc as a character, which was moving away from fighting, and yet they managed to have him play fitting roles in the Baby saga, for instance. Characters like Goten and Trunks have actual development. Characters like Roshi, Krillin, Piccolo serve the roles they logically would. Super shows characters 'fan-service-y' love, but I'm sure it works more for some than others.
I respect what Super tries to do with the minor characters, and i've even enjoyed certain episodes focusing on them, but i don't think it was done in the right way at all, like other elements of the show.
If i was doing Super, i probably would have gone a completely different route from what they did, and that would probably have first started with deleting Yo Goku and his friends return and the two movies, and started it with a new concept.
As a setting, It was smart for them to place it in between majin buu and the end of Z as a time period, but i do think it unnecessarily tied their hands in what they could introduce without it seeming dumb, and they have already discarded certain things
I would have had it go the GT route and place it after the end of Z
? Turles was pretty cool for a short movie character, especially compared to Zamasu's weird and stupid convoluted plan that didn't make any sense and was dragged out far too long(did we really need two zamasu's involved to fuse together to become super saiyan god white goku zamasu or whatever, its like a bad parody of the most dumb elements of DB)
Plant seed+get stronger+profit is a lot better
If i was doing Super, i probably would have gone a completely different route from what they did, and that would probably have first started with deleting Yo Goku and his friends return and the two movies, and started it with a new concept.
As a setting, It was smart for them to place it in between majin buu and the end of Z as a time period, but i do think it unnecessarily tied their hands in what they could introduce without it seeming dumb, and they have already discarded certain things
I would have had it go the GT route and place it after the end of Z
? Turles was pretty cool for a short movie character, especially compared to Zamasu's weird and stupid convoluted plan that didn't make any sense and was dragged out far too long(did we really need two zamasu's involved to fuse together to become super saiyan god white goku zamasu or whatever, its like a bad parody of the most dumb elements of DB)
Plant seed+get stronger+profit is a lot better
Doctor Decimate
Member
or acting ability apparently?
Linda Young is good as Genkai but her Frieza doesn't hold up at all; the original DBZ dub leaves so much to be desired from an acting standpoint that it's really amazing to continuously see people hold it up as being acceptable. they found their groove around the Buu saga but Namek definitely wasn't it.
Mister Wolf
Member
GT is a travesty from beginning to end.
GT's only redeeming thing is the theme song. And not the fucking Rap, either. The animation sucks, the arcs range from confusing to okay. It devolves into Goku 24/7 halfway through and it just loses itself from there, it's like Baby was supposed to be culmination then they were told to do 20 more episodes and didn't know what to do.
If you got anyone from GT, it'd be Pan, Baby Vegeta or SS4 Goku. But the list of characters you'd want to pull from is puny.
If you got anyone from GT, it'd be Pan, Baby Vegeta or SS4 Goku. But the list of characters you'd want to pull from is puny.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
GT hatred is basically a meme at this point and this post typifies that.
The animation in GT is actually something most people agree is good. At least it was consistent and in some ways an upgrade on DBZ. Super's is a hot mess at times.
GT is Goku Time from the first episode, that's another way it's consistent.
I think that's a bad thing, by the way, but it's somewhat more realistic than attempting to shoehorn the minor characters in via random and uncontrolled power bumps.
I think the Shadow Dragon saga is actually a great idea, but like many things with GT was simply poorly executed. Having negative consequences to abuse of the dragon balls makes sense and was a fitting "full circle" for the series as a whole, IMO.
That I can agree with, though I still think Omega Shenron and Gogeta are the top picks.
Would you not agree that the script and voice direction had more to do with that then the VA themselves?
Considering that all of the DB VA immediately after getting acclimated to DBZ started Blue Gender, and YuYu Hakusho as Funimation's second and third anime dubs respectively. The fact that both of those anime's dubs are still some of the best dubbing jobs around says a lot, and almost 95% of the DB cast had some sort of role in both shows. Every DB VA each show performed their roles outstandingly.
I'd say the trunks saga was when everyone in general really came around to how DBZ was being handled. Namek saga was excusable IMO because that was when everyone first got into voice acting.
Sean was first to adapt legitimately, Sabat had to do a lot of voices so he was excused, Stephanie Nadolny(gohan) came into her own during the garlic jr saga(infact going back and listening to her DB voice acting as Goku is very refreshing considering that's largely how she improved doing it side by side with DBZ).
Yeah, & even throwing out the Japanese VA comparison, Christopher Ayres delivered an objectively superior performance as Frieza. There's a reason why they kept him around rather than bringing back the old VA like they did for 18 in the later movies & Super (despite her having a different Kai VA).
shadow dragon saga made no sense, I swear the namikians made the dragon balls wouldn't they have known about this or warned against it. Goku eating the 4 star dragon ball was nonsense as well. Baby arc was only redeeming thing about GT and even that was pretty bad on how they handled some of the characters. Also how does Dendee end up making a villain 100 times stronger then himself. GT had major problems and goku fusing with dragon at end was the icing on the shit cake.
GT shoulda been a journey with Pan, Trunks and Goten
Correction Intro and baby arc were only redeemable things
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
The show explains your inconsistencies.
The dragon balls disperse the negative energy from each use over time. This was deigned to be sufficient given the length of time it would take to travel around the world to locate all seven each time a new wish is to be made. It was never imagined things like the dragon radar would happen which would make finding the dragon balls trifling. Further, it was never imagined Shenron would do things like restore planets etc.Too much negative energy was built up with not enough time to disperse it, thus creating the Shadow Dragons.
I'm not saying it's overly profound, but the concept of over-reliance on the dragon balls being potentially harmful was a fitting way to conclude the DB series as a whole, IMO.
That never actually happened.
When was the last time you watched subbed GT?
It's hated because it's trash. Regressive and dumb with horrible designs and the worst character interaction of any Dragon Ball property. What makes it doubly offensive is THIS is the consistent strength of Dragon Ball and they dropped the ball harder than you could possibly imagine.
The only good thing it EVER did was it's ending. Even that is horseshit in it's own way because they made up a rule for why Pan could never be a Super Saiyan, yet Goku and Vegeta's great, great grandkids get to be SS2 in spite of it.
The animation is solid for it's time, but the art is sterile and Super regularly tap dances over it there. There is not one thing in GT that rivals Freeza's transformation 2 episodes ago, for example.
No, better to make some nonsense ugly transformation up and then only let Vegeta attain it by having Bulma invent some canon bullshit.
I'll never understand the fascination with Gogeta either. Vegitto had ten times the personality.
Super and GT have their own individual problems, i would not say they were any better than the other in regards to 'writing quality'. Buu saga showed that even DBZ proper was not immune to being stretched too thin creatively.
You don't think they tried to get all their original VA back?
It could not be that some of them just decided on their own that they didn't want to return for a full on obligation of a hundred episode series in Kai or Super, instead of them actively looking for other people because they so bad? I mean its DB, they are not going to intentionally block people out based on their voice acting if they kept them on for so long to begin with.
Linda Young did show up as Frieza early on, but for whatever reason she was replaced, it doesn't have to be that they got rid of her, she still occasionally does work for Funi.
A few of those VA however have retired from VAing all together and did not do anything outside of DB to begin with.
I mean, Ryoko's VA from Tenchi muyu didn't want to go back and do Ryo ohki once Funi got ahold of the rights, despite being one of the most requested VA to return, it didn't mean she was bad so they replaced her.
You don't think they tried to get all their original VA back?
It could not be that some of them just decided on their own that they didn't want to return for a full on obligation of a hundred episode series in Kai or Super, instead of them actively looking for other people because they so bad? I mean its DB, they are not going to intentionally block people out based on their voice acting if they kept them on for so long to begin with.
Linda Young did show up as Frieza early on, but for whatever reason she was replaced, it doesn't have to be that they got rid of her, she still occasionally does work for Funi.
A few of those VA however have retired from VAing all together and did not do anything outside of DB to begin with.
I mean, Ryoko's VA from Tenchi muyu didn't want to go back and do Ryo ohki once Funi got ahold of the rights, despite being one of the most requested VA to return, it didn't mean she was bad so they replaced her.
You keep saying this, but it's just 17 for this arc, and Future Trunks too I suppose for the last one. Unless everyone else got random powerups when I wasn't looking...
And even then, it's not all about getting stronger. Sometimes the interactions between old characters (Like 17 with... basically everyone) are surprising highlights. Piccolo also got to look cool and be relevant aga in a previous arc despite not getting a random powerup.
I think SSJ4 is a better idea for a transformation than Super Saiyan God - it's just bizarre that some race would have this transformation, where seemingly others don't. Its name doesn't make sense - Pure Super Saiyan maybe, but Super Saiyan God? Who imbued that race with godly power and not others? It must've been unique if it piqued Beerus' interest.
Whereas SSJ4, despite the poor name, works better as a 'true' Super Saiyan transformation, melding Saiyan's Oozaru forms with their regular bodies. And I actually like Vegeta's way of achieving it - he swallows his pride to let someone help him get there, and Bulma gets to do something that's more genius than building a bigger Dragon Ball radar.
Whereas SSJ4, despite the poor name, works better as a 'true' Super Saiyan transformation, melding Saiyan's Oozaru forms with their regular bodies. And I actually like Vegeta's way of achieving it - he swallows his pride to let someone help him get there, and Bulma gets to do something that's more genius than building a bigger Dragon Ball radar.
Nah I won't let this stand.
Super for whatever inconsistencies it's had has TONS of good stuff and GT has almost nothing going for it. Super is way, way the fuck better.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Hyperbolic nonsense, I love the random insertion of caps to demonstrate the rage with which you typed this. There's nothing level-headed about what you've said here in the slightest.
Oh look, an opinion. Some people here don't like the ending though, others here like the OP and SSJ4. Some people think the Baby arc is worthy.
I never said the animation was better than Super, simply more consistent. Super swings between trash and god tier sometimes in the same episode, particularly early on. It's a trainwreck and it's given a pass by some because recency bias.
You talking about Vegeta attaining SSJ2 on his own? Or SSJ3?
It isn't a competition. Again, opinions.
What's Krillen doing these days? Still quit fighting?
...I have no idea, I wonder what videl would do.
I guess hurcule would just shoot a gun
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
She couldn't hack it as a properly written Freeza
17, 18, Roshi, and Gohan...
If you were to gauge people's top-100 Dragon Ball moments, how many GT moments would be on the list?
For me: 1. Old pan seeing Goku as his ancestor fights Vegeta's ancestor. The only truly good thing they ever did in GT.
Everything on this topic will be an opinion. No shit.
If you want to talk about popular opinion, it's not going to come out in GT's favor.
The animation quality of Toei in the CG era is very inconsistent and poor, but complimenting GT in this way ignores that it's art quality was at it's all time low with muted dull colors and the least memorable original designs in the franchise.
The best things about Super are memorable and will hold up. People have some vague positive feelings about Super Saiyan 4, which I don't agree with, and that's about it for GT.
No, I'm talking about Bulma inventing the worlds stupidest plot device so Vegeta can be Goku's equal and transform into the ugliest version of any main character in any Dragon Ball anime.
It is, actually. For representation in this game. They aren't including two fusions, even as DLC.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
SSJ4 Vegeta exists solely so he can be fusion fodder to make Gogeta. Like I think the first thing out of his mouth is that they should fuse. It's actually kind of funny the way it's presented
Inclusion in the roster.
The way you blindly just dismiss literally everything about GT to prop up super as having "tons of good stuff" kinda dashes your whole argument doesn't it? I mean GT has good points too. Super does as well, but its hardly the bastion of quality your describing, they both are pretty flawed on an equal level from where i'm standing, but one is new and the other is 20 years old.
"a properly written frieza", yet she can blow it out of the part with an infinitely better and more complex character in gekai? Come on now.
Why would calling a bad thing bad and a good thing good "dash" my argument? That makes no sense.
It's not like I'm in the minority on hating GT and liking Super.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Hard to say, I'm sure some people would have some GT moments.
I'd also have more from DB, DBZ and Super, but they've all been longer, so there's that.
For me, Baby, SSJ4 transformation, SSJ4 Gogeta and a few other things would make it in.
If you want to talk about popular opinion in shounen discussion, it's probably not coming out in dragon ball's favor. Popular opinion is colored by many things.
I only watched GT for the first time this year, and only because Super inspired me into the series more. I think it gets a lot of unwarranted hate and I really enjoyed it, despite spending the better part of 20 years insisting it would be horrible.
You're pretty low on SSJ4, I don't think it's necessarily attractive but it somewhat fits with the saiyan ideal.
The plot device was invented by Baby. Sure, it's dumb, but it's far more acceptable than the Spirit Bomb Sword which is possibly the most ridiculous deus ex machina in anime right now.
You might be right on this one, but I'd imagine Gotenks will probably get in.
Is he... not allowed to fight now? I don't even understand what that has to do what you previously said, concerning minor characters being shoehorned in.
17 - Already mentioned
18 - What random power increase has she shown? I don't even recall her fighting, she knocked a Kamehameha when Goku wasn't even looking, as far as I can recall.
Roshi - ??? He couldn't exactly handle Base Goku, what BS has he pulled exactly
Gohan - He just got back into shape and achieved Mystic form again, is that implausible now? o_o EDIT: Not to mention it took a long ass time before we got to this point again...
Dragon Ball is easily the most internationally popular shonen anime of all time. It's going to come out in it's favor, just maybe not on message boards with purists who tend to resent things for being more popular than their favorite thing.
See how Attack on Titan is treated in those discussions versus it's popularity everywhere.
There are lots of little dumb things about Super but they're done in a way that at least leverages some kind of positive character work.
For example, that scene in Super puts Trunks on front street. It doesn't make him some kind of lame, scarf wearing adventurer who side-lined forever so Goku can do everything, all of the time.
People in the Super thread are shitting on the Super manga for doing this, but GT was so much worse.
*Two Goku/Vegeta fusions. Gotenks will definitely get in.