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John McCain has Brain Cancer

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Kthulhu said:
Thousands of Americans did that. Are they mass murders too? Not to mention a lot of Americans were drafted into that war and lied to by the government about it.

John McCain was held as a POW and tortured by the Vietnamese, as far as I'm concerned he should be forgiven for anything he may have done in the Vietnam war.
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Yes, if you kill civilians you are a murderer. There is no two ways about it. Operation Rolling Thunder alone killed dozens of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians.

pigeon said:
Man remember that time we committed a bunch of mass murders of Nazis in Germany, I sure hope we jailed all those American soldiers
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Nazis are civilians? And yes, America killed a lot of civilians (not Nazis) in Germany. And yes, that's murder.
 
Kthulhu said:
Fucking hell.

Just because someone is an asshole doesn't mean horrible shit like cancer or watching a loved one die should happen to them.
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it also doesn't mean i have to feel the least bit sorry for them.

mccain's family will be a-ok. the dude was old enough he could have dropped dead for no reason anyway, it's not like this is coming out of nowhere.
 
teh_pwn said:
I would rather Democrats get a majority, and I think this extreme response to others would further result in a lack of communication between parties and if anything benefit the GOP.
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This is a discussion board not a DNC strategy meeting but if you want to go that route it seems the Dems are using that type of scare strategy to knock sense into people.
 
We need a spectrum chart that on one end has what you're supposed to say to someone you admire who gets cancer or in a car crash or something, and on the other end has Adolf Hitler.

So like it goes from "What a hero. I hope he pulls through." and then it's like "He's a tough old bastard. He'll beat this." then "Well, sucks to be him." and next "This world is a better place without people like him." and finally "Good, may be burn in the deepest part of hell."
 
plagiarize said:
Of course. But if your first reaction to the news someone you don't like has cancer is to go "well fuck that guy still" I'd advise some self reflection.

No one should have to suffer brain cancer. We will win the war of ideals. I believe that. I wish cancer on no one.

If we need people to get sick or die for our ideals to move forwards (and trust me, we don't need that) then you lack compassion. Dehumanizing people who disagree with us isn't healthy and it doesn't win debates.
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See almost no one is disagreeing with the first bit and the second bit is completely ignoring history.

Every social change in this country, and I mean every, has been on the backs of the dead.

Civil rights, LGBT rights, Women rights, Workers' rightsetc. didn't get to their position without their advocates getting gun down, lynched, or "disappeared". In some cases, it was the death of their opponents that got people where they needed to be.

The most famous example being Theodore Roosevelt's ascension to the presidency after William Mckinley's assassination.

So spare me the "we need to win debates" sentiment.
 
teh_pwn said:
Racism and discrimination are objectively immoral.

Believing a market based take to healthcare is subjective. And the ideal implementation to it is not very clear, probably a combination of socialized medicine and market forces. I'm not an expert on it by any means but I know enough to spot a faulty analogy.
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well we are talking about mccain here....
 
McCain voted to repeal Obamacare, jeopardizing millions of people to the whims of the current government body and dangled their lives over the AHCA for political scorekeeping while pulling out the two-faced, old man "harrumphs I'm so concerned about how they're handling this" despite never committing to a "no" for one of the most egregiously terrible pieces of lawmaking this country has ever seen.

Don't shed any tears for him.
 
BernardoOne said:
Yes, if you kill civilians you are a murderer. There is no two ways about it. Operation Rolling Thunder alone killed dozens of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians.
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Did you expect the entire US armed forces to just disobey their superiors during the war? That's warfare, and McCain had to go through much worse things than the vast majority of soldiers in the war.
 
psynergylover said:
Didn't Jimmy Carter get through whatever he had?

I'm assuming brain cancer is more lethal?
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Carter had brain metastases from an aggressive form of skin cancer, melanoma. Essentially it was a skin tumor that had spread to the brain. He was treated with a new type of immunooncology therapy that unleashed the body's own T-cells to attack the tumor. While this therapy and other like it have been very effective in melanoma and to a lesser extent in other cancers (NSCLC, renal, etc.), there hasn't been much evidence for glioblastoma, which originates in the brain. The previous treatments of radiation and more broad chemotherapy have, as noted in previous posts, not been effective either. Hopefully McCain is able to participate in a trial that combines new therapies.
 
pxleyes said:
Our civility is one of the traits that separate us. If nothing else, it is worth the exercise of being the bigger person.
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Your civility means shit when you continously lose every election and bring unwilling to play dirty when the other side has no qualms about it

To try and remain civil is a disservice to every person who can be helped by dem policies
 
My thoughts go out to Senator McCain and his family. While I may not agree with him politically, as a veteran, I have respect for him due to his service.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
"Attempted mass murder" is reaching for the emotional top shelf...
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Fuck with people's health and the well being of their family and they tend to get emotional.

Go figure.

This man, were he successful, would be an active participant in the death of people I love. This is one of those "I don't give a fuck about semantics" type of moments. McCain doesn't know me and my animosity towards him and my complete lack of concern wrt/his diagnosis won't affect him the slightest. But what that motherfucker does at his day job sure as hell impacts me and mine.

Get well. Don't get well. Die. Don't die. I don't really care, as long as he stays the fuck out of Congress.
 
Before the ACA was voted into law his health insurer could've dropped him for being too sick.

Thanks, Obama and get well, John.

Also, gonna leave this here, for a bit of perspective

if-you-think-this-is-a-good-parent-i-think-you-have-a-problem.jpg
 
I should have known by page 6 we would be debating morality, nazis and hypotheticals. Dying is easy, but living is hard. Feel bad for his family.
 
slit said:
This is a discussion board not a DNC strategy meeting but if you want to go that route it seems the Dems are using that type of scare strategy to knock sense into people.
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Yes this is a discussion board but the isolation of political beliefs on social media isn't and it impacts elections.
 
pigeon said:
It's exactly the same according to the argument you're making. If you think there's a meaningful distinction maybe you should distinguish them by making a better argument.
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well let's see it

please do equate the vietnam war to ww2

WillyFive said:
Did you expect the entire US armed forces to just disobey their superiors during the war? That's warfare, and McCain had to go through much worse things than the vast majority of soldiers in the war.
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people do disobey orders and not kill people in the army/navy/whatevery

it's rare, but it is not impossible

not sure what part of being a pow forgives what he did
 
Jimothy said:
meh, the posts shitting on him have vastly more substance than the vacuous "thoughts and prayers" posts that make up half of this thread.
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vastly more substance? lol. people writng stuff like "fuck him, he doesn't care about people with cancer so why should we" is a view people are entitled to have, but hardly some nuanced, substantive reaction is it? not really less "vacuous" than any platitude, it's an off the cuff emotional reaction the same as wishing him the best is.
 
teh_pwn said:
Racism and discrimination are objectively immoral.

Believing a market based take to healthcare is subjective. And the ideal implementation to it is not very clear, probably a combination of socialized medicine and market forces. I'm not an expert on it by any means but I know enough to spot a faulty analogy.
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I wasn't talking about the underlying philosophies of healthcare, I was talking about McCain's real lived in actions towards the ACA.

Disregarding his constituents, his donors, every person in both the medical and insurance schemes, objective data offered by who the fuck knows how many esteemed institutions, and the terrified sick people chasing his colleagues is immoral.

The racist I pointed is someone disregarding as much evidence his assertions are absurd and actively harmful as McCain's is to the ACA. It'd be one thing if he chose to abstain while still trying to find a market-based approach that helps as many people as the ACA does but he didn't.

All he did was simper with horror while waiting with baited breath to throw millions under the bus.
 
Sad news. He used to be my favorite Republican back in the day but he sold out.

I will still remember him lecturing one of his supporters after she made a stupid racist comment about Obama. That was some of the good.

But he has backed so many awful things in recent years that my respect for him went to zero. Letting Trump destroy him and not saying a word was the final straw. The guy lost his spine and humanity on the way.

Party over country. I hope he heals and enjoys some time with his family.
 
aeolist said:
it also doesn't mean i have to feel the least bit sorry for them.

mccain's family will be a-ok. the dude was old enough he could have dropped dead for no reason anyway, it's not like this is coming out of nowhere.
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I'm not saying anyone should feel sorry for him. I just don't think wishing awful things like illness and death on people is productive or healthy.
 
I don't understand why people are attacking McCain like he was out there stumping for McConnell's shitty bill. He was a vocal critic of the way it was being drafted behind closed doors, and was himself excluded from those meetings. A week ago he was on CBS saying the bill was probably dead and that Republicans should be working with Democrats.

Just because he wasn't the one of the four senators to fall on their sword to officially kill the bill doesn't mean he wanted to vote yes either.
 
pigeon said:
You don't understand your own posts
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or maybe mccain murdered civilians for no good reason and you are trying to weasel out of justifying it

Nasbin said:
I don't understand why people are attacking McCain like he was out there stumping for McConnell's shitty bill. He was a vocal critic of the way it was being drafted behind closed doors, and was himself excluded from those meetings. A week ago he was on CBS saying the bill was probably dead and that Republicans should be working with Democrats.

Just because he wasn't the one of the four senators to fall on their sword to officially kill the bill doesn't mean he wanted to vote yes either.
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well maybe he could have done better

he does have the chance to do some good in the little time he has left and try to publicly oppose trump. but he has always, always fallen in line so I have very little faith
 
My best wishes go out to him and his family. John McCain always seemed like a good honest human being. I have respect for him. News like this is always terrible and I really wish cancer could be 100% defeated. ;(
 
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