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[Avalanche]

Anyone who thinks McCain's past earns him an unlimited hall pass for good character should give this a read. The man has undeniably been through a lot of shit, but his privilege has allowed him to avoid any responsibility for his actions.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Many things? Cite your sources. You've already shown you didn't read or understand the CBO score, I'm curious what else you're clueless about.

If the CBO did an assessment on mortality rates I would be glad to see it.

Again, even the links you all rush to providing while only reading the headlines offer heavy caveats about being definitive when assigning causality and are filled with qualifiers like could, maybe, might, etc.

 

[BarringGaffner]

 

[mozfan12]

Actually, many things dispute it just based on the incredible difficulty associated with properly assigning causality.

Hypothetically, let's say your right. Is it ok for an individual to come out with 1000+ bill for a a simple broken bone in the most successful capitalist society? Is it ok for someone that has cancer or any possibly life ending disease to spend the rest of their life in debt because some fucks in Washington decided that they rather get a tax cut than participate in a society that we've all help built with our tax dollars, but a couple million is so important for them.

 

[JettDash]

If the CBO did an assessment on mortality rates I would be glad to see it.

According to you the CBO says that 20 million will choose to go uninsured due to the repeal of the individual mandate. So even if they did an assessment on mortality rates, you probably wouldn't understand it.

Again, even the links you all rush to providing while only reading the headlines offer heavy caveats about being definitive when assigning causality and are filled with qualifiers like could, maybe, might, etc.

What do you think happens to someone if he gets cancer but doesn't have insurance?

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

If the CBO did an assessment on mortality rates I would be glad to see it.

That's not what I asked, what are the 'many things'? Your comments on the CBO score early show that, again, you either didn't read or understand the CBO report. You have no interest in learning about the issue, you're just repeating taking points.

 

[GameAddict411]

You're asking me to take your words, a random anonymous person on the internet, that untold numbers of people will die every year because of this without providing me with an impartial analysis which explain why and how. You're telling me to suspend all objectivity and critical thinking and to just take your word for it. Does this seem reasonable?

For my part, I've looked into it and I have yet to see any kind of yearly deaths analysis. This is not to say anything one way or another, just that I can't find numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameri...imated_impact_of_the_Republican_AHCA_and_BCRA

It's not fucking rocket science, and you need to stop acting so naively. The GOP health plans will cut down on everything basically. It will drop more than 20 millions Americans from health care over the next few years. No health care for these people means no access to necessary medical treatment for people when they need it. This will result in a lot of premature deaths. For some people who are already sick now, they will lose incredible amount of subsidizes. Older people premiums will multiply. This could mean that over a short period of time, a 60 years old will not be able to afford his or her blood pressure medication. It means that a cancer patient will not be able to get chemo therapy and surgeries required to recover.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Hypothetically, let's say your right. Is it ok for an individual to come out with 1000+ bill for a a simple broken bone in the most successful capitalist society? Is it ok for someone that has cancer or any possibly life ending disease to spend the rest of their life in debt because some fucks in Washington decided that they rather get a tax cut than participate in a society that we've all help built with our tax dollars, but a couple million is so important for them.

These are real and legitimate impacts on people in need that can be pointed out without the alarmist language of "MILLIONS WILL DIE" that ends with people justifying the baseball practice shooting.

 

[Machina]

Yes because he is clearly in a sound state of mind to vote on such important issues

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

These are real and legitimate impacts on people in need that can be pointed out with the alarmist language of "MILLIONS WILL DIE" that ends with people justifying the baseball practice shooting.

What?

 

[Captin Quacker]

Yes because he is clearly in a sound state of mind to vote on such important issues

even if he was there's a good chance he'd vote yes anyway

 

[thepotatoman]

Nothing in that link disputes my statement that:

"Some people will die".

The question is how many, and that's really tough to figure out. But I will guarantee you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it will be > 0.

Given what we know it will do in practical terms, it's probably safe to say it'll cost more than 1,000 lives per year. What do people expect will happen when you take away insurance from millions of people, basically take away pre-existing condition protections, and remove large parts of of the essential health benefits list?

Unless whatever they reveal tomorrow is completely different from everything they've tried so far, but typically good bills aren't created in secrecy like this.

 

[Psychoward]

These are real and legitimate impacts on people in need that can be pointed out without the alarmist language of "MILLIONS WILL DIE" that ends with people justifying the baseball practice shooting.

"Alarmist language"?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

These are real and legitimate impacts on people in need that can be pointed out without the alarmist language of "MILLIONS WILL DIE" that ends with people justifying the baseball practice shooting.

It's not alarmist. It's a fucking fact. Educate yourself.

 

[JettDash]

If Republicans don't want people to resort to things like shooting Republican Congressmen playing baseball, they have the option of not being a bigger danger to the American people than terrorists.

 

[Suikoguy]

It's not alarmist. It's a fucking fact. Educate yourself.

Well, millions is alarmist, thousands is not.

 

[GameAddict411]

These are real and legitimate impacts on people in need that can be pointed out without the alarmist language of "MILLIONS WILL DIE" that ends with people justifying the baseball practice shooting.

I think it's justified for people to be alarmed about this. A lot of members on gaf and their families are reliant on the current health care system, and for some of them it could be literal death or financial ruin.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

What?

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

For the record, I'm of the mind that if even one person dies an unnecessary death because of this bill, it should be considered too much.

 

[JettDash]

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

What if you don't care about the safety of Republican Congressmen?

 

[Suikoguy]

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

...

But who here is saying millions will die?

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

No, I got what you were trying to say. I'm just pointing out that it's nonsense.

 

[Vena]

I assume this means McConnell has found some semblance of "the votes" for his bill?

 

[JettDash]

I assume this means McConnell has found some semblance of "the votes" for his bill?

No it doesn't mean that, nessesarily.

I think that he has the votes for MTP but that even he doesn't know what the end result will be.

 

[Siegcram]

For the record, I'm of the mind that if even one person dies an unnecessary death because of this bill, it should be considered too much.

So your overarching point is for people to be considerate of "unhinged people" in their phrasing.

Great thing you derailed the thread for this crucial piece of advice.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

...

But who here is saying millions will die?

The guy is dying, and he wants one of his last acts to be about killing millions of Americans?

Huh.

Yeah, come on guys. He's only literally dragging his ass out of his deathbed to do his part to doom millions of the nation's most vulnerable to actual death and/or financial ruin. That's no reason to be mean.

Edit: You all realize he isn't Tinkerbell, right? Thinking bad thoughts about this man (doing an objectively evil thing) doesn't affect his prognosis one way or the other.

You can't deny a dying man his final wish to send millions to their death, to his face.

looks like he is taking millions with him

What about signing the death warrant of millions? That's crossing a pretty big line.

Why are you defending someone who wants to kill millions of people?

There are actually more posts like these but I stopped looking.

 

[JettDash]

Eventually millions will die if it isn't reversed.

 

[Tevos]

Stupid old delusional fuck literally has brain cancer and yet thinks millions of americans don't deserve health care.

Un. Fucking. Believable.

 

[norm9]

There are actually more posts like these but I stopped looking.

Don't forget the AMA, AARP, etc.

 

[PuppetSlave]

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

For the record, I'm of the mind that if even one person dies an unnecessary death because of this bill, it should be considered too much.

So the unhinged people will not do horrible things if people are more accurate in their counting of future deaths. I understand. Is there an cut off point here? Just so maybe people should downplay the numbers a bit. Wouldn't want unhinged people taking it seriously.

 

[slit]

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

For the record, I'm of the mind that if even one person dies an unnecessary death because of this bill, it should be considered too much.

Okay, millions COULD, MIGHT, MAYBE die because of McCain's actions. Does that make you feel better because we all know that is the most important thing to get across.

 

[excelsiorlef]

If the CBO did an assessment on mortality rates I would be glad to see it.

Again, even the links you all rush to providing while only reading the headlines offer heavy caveats about being definitive when assigning causality and are filled with qualifiers like could, maybe, might, etc.

Is it your argument them that people don't die because they can't get proper treatment?

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

So the unhinged people will not do horrible things if people are more accurate in their counting of future deaths. I understand. Is there an cut off point here? Just so maybe people should downplay the numbers a bit. Wouldn't want unhinged people taking it seriously.

He's changed the focus of the argument. We were talking about how repealing ACA will cause Americans to loose healthcare, and some of them will die as result.

Somehow we're now talking about inciting violence?

 

[Suikoguy]

There are actually more posts like these but I stopped looking.

Fair enough, I apparently just glazed over those posts.

On the other hand, PuppetSlave has a point.

So the unhinged people will not do horrible things if people are more accurate in their counting of future deaths. I understand. Is there an cut off point here? Just so maybe people should downplay the numbers a bit. Wouldn't want unhinged people taking it seriously.

Is it all that surprising, given the situation and actions of the GOP, that hyperbole would be used? This is unconscionable, basically a new low.

It's a testament to the stranglehold the far right has on the GOP, and how beholden to Trump the GOP still is that they would have a terminally ill man fly in to vote on bill the vast majority don't want.

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

For the record, I'm of the mind that if even one person dies an unnecessary death because of this bill, it should be considered too much.

Clearly that's not your positIon.

 

[SirNinja]

Yes because he is clearly in a sound state of mind to vote on such important issues

If "being in a sound state of mind" was a prerequisite for voting eligibility, most congressional Republicans wouldn't be allowed within a hundred miles of a ballot.

 

[Siegcram]

Is it your argument them that people don't die because they can't get proper treatment?

Obviously. Qualifiers mean the opposite is just as likely to happen and have nothing to do with maintaining scientific integrity. Every scholar of grammar knows that.

 

[Fenderputty]

What's going to go up again is bankruptcy and loss of homes.

 

[Mac_Lane]

Seriously, fuck McCain.

 

[Vena]

No it doesn't mean that, nessesarily.

I think that he has the votes for MTP but that even he doesn't know what the end result will be.

I suppose, but I have to wonder why McConnell would force McCain back for this vote.

 

[Marvie_3]

John McCain can fuck right off.

 

[JettDash]

I suppose, but I have to wonder why McConnell would force McCain back for this vote.

McConnell didn't force him. McCain could stay home if he wants.

And without McCain, it has basically zero chance. Wouldn't even have the votes for MTP. With him there is a chance.

 

[Kevinroc]

https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/889660273090592770

Will cancer-stricken @SenJohnMcCain help a draft-dodger who called him a loser take health care from millions? Then this will be his legacy.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Obviously. Qualifiers mean the opposite is just as likely to happen and have nothing to do with maintaining scientific integrity. Every scholar of grammar knows that.

The evidence is mixed enough that factcheck.org avoided making any kind of ruling on the claim. If an organization that dedicates itself to validating or debunking a claim can't come to a ruling, that's a big deal in showing just how difficult it is to assign causality with confidence.

 

[JettDash]

The evidence is mixed enough that factcheck.org avoided making any kind of ruling on the claim. If an organization that dedicates itself to validating or debunking a claim can't come to a ruling, that's a big deal in showing just how difficult it is to assign causality with confidence.

What do you think happens if someone gets cancer and doesn't have iinsurance?

 

[Vena]

McConnell didn't force him. McCain could stay home if he wants.

And without McCain, it has basically zero chance. Wouldn't even have the votes for MTP. With him there is a chance.

Ahh I misread/misunderstood, I thought this was more of a "coerced" return.

 

[Psychoward]

The evidence is mixed enough that factcheck.org avoided making any kind of ruling on the claim. If an organization that dedicates itself to validating or debunking a claim can't come to a ruling, that's a big deal in showing just how difficult it is to assign causality with confidence.

Well I'm glad only thousands will die then in the short term. It could be 999,999 citizens dead and a whole lot more sick and financially ruined but as long as it's not millions dead! Are you willing to take back your post earlier claiming it was ridiculous that the GOP is more harmful to American citizens than any formally recognized terrorist organization?

 

[Matrix XII]

You know what though? It's weird he's even allowed to do this. My sister was retired from the Navy (she was a Nuke Tech) because she had to have brain surgery and they said because of that she could be a liability. So why does someone who could affect the lives of millions get to make decisions with a fucking brain tumor?

That's a very good point.

 

[thepotatoman]

Eventually millions will die if it isn't reversed.

I guess in somewhere between 50 and 100 years.

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

The evidence is mixed enough that factcheck.org avoided making any kind of ruling on the claim. If an organization that dedicates itself to validating or debunking a claim can't come to a ruling, that's a big deal in showing just how difficult it is to assign causality with confidence.

So that must mean no one will die. That's a load off my mind... Oh, wait, no. That's not what that means.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The evidence is mixed enough that factcheck.org avoided making any kind of ruling on the claim. If an organization that dedicates itself to validating or debunking a claim can't come to a ruling, that's a big deal in showing just how difficult it is to assign causality with confidence.

So it is your belief that people do not die because they don't get treated