Support NeoGAF

[Forgotten_Taco]

What do you think happens if someone gets cancer and doesn't have iinsurance?

Something...something. Emergency room?

That's my guess anyway. He/She doesn't have a clue about healthcare policy.

 

[Foffy]

Something...something. Emergency room?

That's my guess anyway. He/She doesn't have a clue about healthcare policy.

Who pays for it? How much is an emergency room visit via chargemasters?

 

[digdug2k]

If the CBO did an assessment on mortality rates I would be glad to see it.

Again, even the links you all rush to providing while only reading the headlines offer heavy caveats about being definitive when assigning causality and are filled with qualifiers like could, maybe, might, etc.

There are plenty of mortality rate assessments around. You can cherry-pick whichever one says what you want. That's why there's lots of them. To ensure that its so fucking confusing you have no idea what the truth is. Maybe insurance even kills people! There's a fucking Forbes article out there that claims the money they spend on insurance could save more people if we invested all of it on smoking cessation equipment instead. Yay! "Sorry grandma, I know you need chemo, but for the cost of one round, we can save the lives of 300 smokers!"

 

[Siegcram]

The evidence is mixed enough that factcheck.org avoided making any kind of ruling on the claim. If an organization that dedicates itself to validating or debunking a claim can't come to a ruling, that's a big deal in showing just how difficult it is to assign causality with confidence.

Which, again, isn't something you should be concerned about when your stated position is that any life lost is one too many. And that is undeniable fact.

So either you're lying or pointlessly playing devil's advocat and wasting everyone's time.

Either way you should probably stop.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

So that must mean no one will die. That's a load off my mind... Oh, wait, no. That's not what that means.

Again, I'm going with what I believe is a credible and impartial organization when they say things like this.

But the research uses terms like “could” and “suggests” and “cannot definitively demonstrate a causal relationship,” not the definitive “will” favored by opponents of the bill. We can’t say whether any specific projection is a correct or valid number.

What exactly am I supposed to do here?

 

[cdyhybrid]

Come on guys, not everyone who loses healthcare will die.

They might live in agonizing pain and/or be unable to work to support themselves and pay their medical bills and THEN die.

Please be more accurate with your language!

 

[excelsiorlef]

Again, I'm going with what I believe is a credible and impartial organization when they say things like this.



What exactly am I supposed to do here?

So it is your belief that the number could in fact be 0

That no one will die of 32 million people don't have insurance

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

Again, I'm going with what I believe is a credible and impartial organization when they say things like this.



What exactly am I supposed to do here?

Think logically, especially since they're not saying the number is 0.

What happens when you get cancer and can't afford treatment?

 

[Loudninja]

Come on guys, not everyone who loses healthcare will die.

They might live in agonizing pain and/or be unable to work to support themselves and pay their medical bills and THEN die.

Please be more accurate with your language!

I seriously cannot believe this is been argue.

Not you btw wanted that to be clear.

 

[PuppetSlave]

He's changed the focus of the argument. We were talking about how repealing ACA will cause Americans to loose healthcare, and some of them will die as result.

Somehow we're now talking about inciting violence?

Yeah I know, I was belittling his illogical argument. Was going for absurdism.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I seriously cannot believe this is been argue lol

Yeah I can't believe what I'm reading here. People will die because of this. More than from terror attacks too. It's common logic.

It's like arguing if you'll die if you stop drinking water. The answer is fucking yes you will and there is no factchecker necessary to say this is true.

 

[Hierophant]

So I hope GAF takes this lesson not to trust "moderate" repubs, the shining example of these "moderates" is a dude who never actually was a moderate and is literally crawling out of the grave to kill more poor people because he didn't do it enough in life

 

[Aselith]

um

what the fuck happens if he passes away on the flight

They'll try again later, I guess? GOP hardly cares about how many bodies they accrue. McCain would just be another on the pile for them.

I'm actually wondering if they would THEN try to argue medical incompetence if he by some miracle voted "no"

I could see them absolutely doing it

 

[Machina]

So I hope GAF takes this lesson not to trust "moderate" repubs, the shining example of these "moderates" is a dude who never actually was a moderate and is literally crawling out of the grave to kill more poor people because he didn't do it enough in life

Then afterwards he's fucking off back to his fully paid for, trouble free care for his cancer

 

[BocoDragon]

So I hope GAF takes this lesson not to trust "moderate" repubs, the shining example of these "moderates" is a dude who never actually was a moderate and is literally crawling out of the grave to kill more poor people because he didn't do it enough in life

Damn.

 

[JettDash]

Guys don't be so alarmist. Republicans can take money that currently goes to lifesaving treatment and give it to rich people all without people dying because otherwise they would be monsters and I really don't want to think they're monsters.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Think logically, especially since they're not saying the number is 0.

What happens when you get cancer and can't afford treatment?

The argument here seems to be that it is blindingly obvious that common sense alone can answer this question. But FactCheck and the studies which were conducted to answer this very question caution against that very way of thinking. If what you say is true, then the article posted by them with the title "Deaths from a Health Care Bill?" would be the easiest task on earth. It would simply state "hell yes there will be deaths" and end right there. But that's clearly not the case, they straight up refused to make a ruling at all and explained why.

 

[Ozigizo]

um

what the fuck happens if he passes away on the flight

 

[JettDash]

The argument here seems to be that it is blindingly obvious that common sense alone can answer this question. But FactCheck and the studies which were conducted to answer this very question caution against that very way of thinking. If what you say is true, then the article posted by them with the title "Deaths from a Health Care Bill?" would be the easiest task on earth. It would simply state "hell yes there will be deaths" and end right there. But that's clearly not the case, they straight up refused to make a ruling at all and explained why.

So what do you think happens if someone gets cancer and doesn't have insurance?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

So what do you think happens if someone gets cancer and doesn't have insurance?

You're asking me to answer a hypothetical that can end in 15,000 different ways. The most likely outcome? You are burdened with crippling debt but still receive care. Which is a good enough reason why the healthcare system sucks right now. ACA is a half-step measure to help but the system itself is still not in a good place.

 

[thepotatoman]

You're asking me to answer a hypothetical that can end in 15,000 different ways. The most likely outcome? You are burdened with crippling debt but still receive care. Which is a good enough reason why the healthcare system sucks right now. ACA is a half-step measure to help but the system itself is still not in a good place.

How likely are they to be diagonosed as quick as someone with insurance.

And we already have a quarter of patients not getting their prescribed drugs for cost reasons, and another 20% on top of that taking less than prescribed. So many people do choose to not be treated for cost reasons.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...s-soar-people-delay-or-skip-cancer-treatments

 

[Aselith]

ACA at this point won't really have changed outcomes significantly since health is a long term process which is why it really cant have been researched yet. 3 years is not nearly long enough to study the effects of this. But the effects of not having healthcare have been studied

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb1706645

 

[Simple Jack]

I understand sucking DTs small clitsized penis and kissing asses for his own benefit, but he has nothing to lose anymore... He'll be dead in a year tops if he doesn't die on his way to the senate. Unless he wants to suddenly vote to keep obamacare. That would be a nice surprise.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The argument here seems to be that it is blindingly obvious that common sense alone can answer this question. But FactCheck and the studies which were conducted to answer this very question caution against that very way of thinking. If what you say is true, then the article posted by them with the title "Deaths from a Health Care Bill?" would be the easiest task on earth. It would simply state "hell yes there will be deaths" and end right there. But that's clearly not the case, they straight up refused to make a ruling at all and explained why.

You are on record that just one is enough... Is it your belief that no one will die from lack of insurance and thus lack of care

 

[Theonik]

i guess his health isn't that important. they must be pressuring him to go.

Dude is probably dead by the end of the year either way. He just wants to do get back to work before that though.

 

[Beartruck]

ACA at this point won't really have changed outcomes significantly since health is a long term process which is why it really cant have been researched yet. 3 years is not nearly long enough to study the effects of this. But the effects of not having healthcare have been studied

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb1706645

Why do people keep saying aca has only been around 3 years? Didnt this stuff get passed in 2009?

 

[Aselith]

Why do people keep saying aca has only been around 3 years? Didnt this stuff get passed in 2009?

2014 was when everything had come online. There was a ramping up process to get the whole thing fully instituted.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Put simply, if you want to claim that millions of people are going to die because of something, please be certain of your claim and not rely on studies that qualify every sentence with "could/might/maybe" since the effect on mortality rates still has a long way to go. It's a serious claim that some unhinged people like that baseball shooter will take seriously.

For the record, I'm of the mind that if even one person dies an unnecessary death because of this bill, it should be considered too much.

You know what would be great for unhinged people? Federal Gun control laws and public healthcare that helps them get the therapy and help they'll need.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

The GOP are going to roll out some bullshit today.

The John McCain Act or some shit - and Republicans will vote because party over country. Who would vote down a bill with McCains name attached while he's he is there.

 

[Lime]

Lol at anyone ever considering McCain to be respectable. He bombed Vietnamese civilians in his youth and his often-mentioned defense of an Arab US citizen was racist.

 

[meppi]

In other words: When they go low, we go high so they can go even lower.
Gotcha.

 

[Mung]

Nice of him to make the extra effort to deprive others of the Healthcare he gets by default.

In addition, he seems hellbent on starting ww3 before he goes.

 

[FreedomFighter]

That's a privileged white man for you.

He enjoys top-notch healthcare but is more than ready to snatch it away from everyone else.

I steered clear of that diagnosis thread where all of you were singing McCain praises. Fuck cancer. But fuck McCain.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

I don't understand how he's allowed to vote considering his circumstances.

But at the same time I am hoping for a new healthcare system because what's in place simply doesn't work. My father has Alzheimer's and medicare. Which pays absolutely nothing unless he's in a hospital or a nursing home. I have to pay out of pocket for a caregiver while I work.

Even medi-cal doesn't help since they won't pay anything until after he's spent $1300 in medical related expenses. Which is 70% of his monthly income, so I guess they want him homeless or in a nursing home.

Though my gut tells me whatever they come up with will be worse. 🙁

 

[Foffy]

I don't understand how he's allowed to vote considering his circumstances.

But at the same time I am hoping for a new healthcare system because what's in place simply doesn't work. My father has Alzheimer's and medicare. Which pays absolutely nothing unless he's in a hospital or a nursing home. I have to pay out of pocket for a caregiver while I work.

Even medi-cal doesn't help since they won't pay anything until after he's spent $1300 in medical related expenses. Which is 70% of his monthly income, so I guess they want him homeless or in a nursing home.

Though my gut tells me whatever they come up with will be worse. 🙁

I do not think the idea of "execution chambers" would be far fetched from something the GOP would consider.

Use all of those 'murican guns to line sick people up and shoot them. After all, if you get sick, you lived a "bad life" per some of these parasites in power.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

I don't understand how he's allowed to vote considering his circumstances.

But at the same time I am hoping for a new healthcare system because what's in place simply doesn't work. My father has Alzheimer's and medicare. Which pays absolutely nothing unless he's in a hospital or a nursing home. I have to pay out of pocket for a caregiver while I work.

Even medi-cal doesn't help since they won't pay anything until after he's spent $1300 in medical related expenses. Which is 70% of his monthly income, so I guess they want him homeless or in a nursing home.

Though my gut tells me whatever they come up with will be worse. 🙁

I'm sorry about your father but whatever comes next will absolutely be worse.

 

[Slaythe]

I don't understand how he's allowed to vote considering his circumstances.

But at the same time I am hoping for a new healthcare system because what's in place simply doesn't work. My father has Alzheimer's and medicare. Which pays absolutely nothing unless he's in a hospital or a nursing home. I have to pay out of pocket for a caregiver while I work.

Even medi-cal doesn't help since they won't pay anything until after he's spent $1300 in medical related expenses. Which is 70% of his monthly income, so I guess they want him homeless or in a nursing home.

Though my gut tells me whatever they come up with will be worse. 🙁

They want to repeal it before they even have anything to replace it with. And anything they've suggested has been the absolute worst thing ever in terms of healthcare. No hyperbole.

So instead of them trying to improve obamacare, they want it gone for their racist agenda and vendetta against Obama.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I don't understand how he's allowed to vote considering his circumstances.

But at the same time I am hoping for a new healthcare system because what's in place simply doesn't work. My father has Alzheimer's and medicare. Which pays absolutely nothing unless he's in a hospital or a nursing home. I have to pay out of pocket for a caregiver while I work.

Even medi-cal doesn't help since they won't pay anything until after he's spent $1300 in medical related expenses. Which is 70% of his monthly income, so I guess they want him homeless or in a nursing home.

Though my gut tells me whatever they come up with will be worse. 🙁

You don't need your gut, every plan they have put out have been nothing but tax cuts for the rich. They all gut Medicare.

This isn't about helping Americans this is about stripping Obama's legacy and paving the way for yet more tax cuts.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Medicaid will survive in states that care to find the money to fill in the gaps that the Republican plan will create. Unfortunately, that will only be a small handful of states, the rest won't be willing to raise taxes.

A lot of poor and disabled people will have shorter more difficult lives as a result. It's no surprise that the Republican party wants that. They're the party of racist whites and the proud legacy carrier of the antebellum south.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Uprising when?

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

We're doomed, guys. No way this vote doesn't pass today.

 

[NewFresh]

If this passes I will have to go on blackout. I won't be able to deal with Trumps gloating.

 

[Maintenance]

Medicaid will survive in states that care to find the money to fill in the gaps that the Republican plan will create. Unfortunately, that will only be a small handful of states, the rest won't be willing to raise taxes.

A lot of poor and disabled people will have shorter more difficult lives as a result. It's no surprise that the Republican party wants that. They're the party of racist whites and the proud legacy carrier of the antebellum south.

Plus, if I recall correctly, the red states will be hit harder. Someone can confirm or deny this I'm sure, I can't right now.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

You don't need your gut, every plan they have put out have been nothing but tax cuts for the rich. They all gut Medicare.

This isn't about helping Americans this is about stripping Obama's legacy and paving the way for yet more tax cuts.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad.

I don't know how to quote everyone else on mobile who responded to me, but I thank you guys for your honesty, as brutal as it is.

I had a slight bit of hope that maybe they'd do something that could help our situation (and millions of others) but knowing where Trump comes from its probably as you all say, they only care about the rich.

I was listening to the radio earlier (coast to coast with George, love that show) and one of his guests mentioned that 8 people in the world have more money than half a billion people combined.

With such a profound discrepancy of wealth, I guess I should know better, yet for some reason hope remains...

Just a little bit lol

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Plus, if I recall correctly, the red states will be hit harder. Someone can confirm or deny this I'm sure, I can't right now.

This is somewhat true. States that rely more on federal funding tend to be more red than blue.

Washington, California, Massachusetts, and New York are most likely gonna be safe even after they pass the stupid law. They make more cash than they take, so they can cover those cuts.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Uprising when?

Unless Republicans controlled government led by a Republican President issue military personnel to go around and execute straight white Christian males the country over.

Never.

 

[Queen Vulpix]

This thing is not going away until they either succeed or January 2021 (at the earliest) rolls around, whichever comes first.

Sadly, though still holding out hope for a miracle run in both the Senate/House in 2018 for Democrats and the GOP's current health care plans fail to get enough votes before this upcoming election season and then the GOP's attempts would just be background noise until 2021.

If the GOP were even a fraction of a bit reasonable I'd welcome the MTP passing for both sides to come together and hopefully help improve/fix areas that need fixing with the ACA. Sadly there's nothing reasonable about most of the GOP and all they seem set on is destroying anything with Obama's name attached to it and screwing over the poor in favor of more tax cuts for the rich.

 

[Krakatoa]

Are they voting today for the Healthcare plan, or to review it?

 

[George Washington]

He's going to vote yes. Rand Paul will vote no.

 

[Beartruck]

Are they voting today for the Healthcare plan, or to review it?

To review it. Unless they strip the legislative filibuster they can't vote on it today. The current plan massively violates the rules to pass reconciliation, and any new plan would have to be CBO scored, so they're voting on...?