Mass shooting at the Mandalay Bay Las Vegas; 58 dead, 500+ injured.

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whitehawk said:
There's an argument that you only need guns because bad guys also have guns.
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That is if we take his word for the fact that the only solution to his vaguely defined problems was using guns instead of better fencing, traps, or a myriad of other wildlife control and home defense options.
 
Mahonay said:
People in this thread who still suggest stricter gun regulation isn't needed are straight up being disingenuous.
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One point where I tend to split a bit with the mainstream left on this is here. I don't think people stockpiling tons of guns is really the scary thing we need to prevent. I think statistically the people with tons of guns probably are the ones not terribly likely to do much with them. This particular shooting is a bit of an outlier. Most gun deaths aren't the guys with 30+ guns. They're not the long rifles. They're not the scary fully/semi-automatic ARs. They're handguns and they're people who only have one. They're used in the heat of the moment with things like domestic violence or suicide. That's actually the biggest problem we have in this country and those situations are what we need gun control more for.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of think the people stockpiling like 30 guns are a bit loony, but whatever. We all have our things, I guess.

But I kind of feel like the mainstream left likes to grab the big scary/loony people and try to legislate against that in order to piss less people off. Unfortunately real reforms requires taking away the fucking pistol your uncle or neighbor or whatever keeps in his bedside table. Statistically. But that's too far.
 
Captainbojanglesiii said:
Why would you even want 10+ guns? I guess if you’re a hunter and just keep upgrading, or if you collect them, but stuff like that rings an alarm, even with those two ‘excuses’

Just a terrible day. Hope the motive becomes clear, so the full story is there, but probably another case of someone with clear mental illness getting their hands on multiple weapons. Awful. RIP to those who passed
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I guess you'd need them if every day 20 bears come out of the forest to attack your house.

🤷
 
maladroit said:
I own multiple firearms because my house is 40+ minutes (via car) from the closest police station. I've had to use them to both defend myself and to shoot wildlife that's attacked my animals. Where do you live?
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Multiple as in like 2 or 10? There’s gotta come a point where it’s redundant and simply dangerous to have so many

Like you can only shoot one gun at a time, and unless you have hordes of people storming your house you’d probably only need a clip if something like that happened. Maybe I’m wrong, and don’t understand this, but this makes zero sense to me
 
crooked spin said:
Stricter regulation isn't going to take away the guns from the people who already have small arsenals. That's what makes me feel hopeless about "regulation" moving forward.
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It might slow down a young person considering buying a gun from amassing their own arsenal in the future. The one thing that is certain is that if we do nothing absolutely nothing will ever change.
 
One Eyed Willy said:
First and foremost RIP to all the victims, this is senseless evil and I'll call it what it is.. terrorism. As a gun owner of a few AR's, and other various firearms I can tell you right now by just hearing the audio .. these were automatic firearms, not semi-auto and they do not sound like semi-auto converted to auto either. I hear large magazines of ammo going off too.. which would indicate likely larger than 30 round capacity magazines. I would suspect there was at least 1 firearm there being fed with a drum of 50+ rounds.

Literally all of the above automatic type weapons and drums are straight up illegal in the united states. To obtain such a thing requires specific licenses that require heavy background checks on a per person basis by the ATF. Think, Arnold Schwarzenegger .. and his tank. Even though you can't fire it, and even though nobody can buy these.. he did.. because he had the time, and the money it takes to pay for these kinds of licenses that are heavily tracked and monitored on a federal level. The average Joe in "most" states cannot and never will the means or opportunity to obtain these kinds of weapons.

That being said, there are a few states out there with extremely lax gun regulations, that do allow for auto-type weapons and drums like this in exception type cases. These are fringe gun purchases .. honest outliers in the context of over 300 million firearms in the country. But it does exist, thus someone "could" get their hands on one.. but this would be a fairly rare thing. Also, the kind of person who would know what channels to go through to obtain one would be a gun enthusiast.. and the shooters brother said he had no gun experience or military background. It doesn't add up to me, it doesn't make sense. I'm probably wrong, but what I know.. doesn't make sense.

I honestly need to wait several days for more concrete facts to hit before I can wrap my head around all of this. Its a tragedy on the largest scale, theres no debate in that. Whats odd to me is when I listen to the audio over and over, I swear I hear overlapping gun fire which couldn't be just 1 person. Couple that with early reports of multiple shooters from several locations just makes me question even what we're hearing from authorities today. This is an ongoing investigation and with absolute certainty, we the public know probably ~25% of the information.. if that. I'm sure the FBI are watching all the audio, analyzing it, and interviewing eye witnesses. Also, its Vegas.. so there are cameras everywhere in every casino, in the elevators, on the hotel floors. This guy or whomever is on video for days so the FBI will take all of this into account. Its honestly most likely this is just some lone fucking idiot, but the investigation could uncover all sorts of things about who was shooter, from where, etc.. because of all the audio/video that was being shot at the time.

RIP
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I've been watching the video over and over. I've been listening to the gunfire. To me it sounds like an AK-47. I say that as someone who has fired several fully automatic AK's over the years. The fire report sounds like a spat tone. I'm definitely no expert. Just sharing what I've experienced.
 
The guy on CNN just said that investigators need to “cross their lines, and dot their T’s” during this investigation. I know I always dot my T’s and cross my lines when I want to do something thoroughly..
 
Angry Grimace said:
My stepdad probably has 100 or more. He keeps loaded weapons in socks around the house. My friends weren't allowed to come over at one point because they would find guns around.
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WOW that sounds like an addiction and a serious problem. Like OCD + Hoarding but then with guns. Seems like he needs help.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
How many guns though? There's nothing wrong with defending your home...but if you own more than 5-10 guns I honestly cannot fathom why.

I live in Atlanta FWIW
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People who like guns tend to have more than one, as all guns are different. It's not that hard to understand...

That's like asking why someone who loves cars would own more than one.
 
crooked spin said:
Stricter regulation is going to take away the guns from the people who already have small arsenals. That's what makes me feel hopeless about "regulation" moving forward.
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To be honest, they should take some of those guns away from people with huge personal arsenals as regulation. Give them a huge tax refund in exchange.

But that probably won't even happen in my lifetime.

Still, you need to start somewhere. A more reasonable limit on how many, and what kind of guns and ammo you can buy in the first place is a simple and obvious starting point. Along with far stricter qualifications for who can obtain guns.
 
maladroit said:
I own multiple firearms because my house is 40+ minutes (via car) from the closest police station. I've had to use them to both defend myself and to shoot wildlife that's attacked my animals. Where do you live?
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The question was "Why does any home need an armory of that scale?" Your response was irrelevant.

Don't ask where people live lol
 
RDreamer said:
One point where I tend to split a bit with the mainstream left on this is here. I don't think people stockpiling tons of guns is really the scary thing we need to prevent. I think statistically the people with tons of guns probably are the ones not terribly likely to do much with them. This particular shooting is a bit of an outlier. Most gun deaths aren't the guys with 30+ guns. They're not the long rifles. They're not the scary fully/semi-automatic ARs. They're handguns and they're people who only have one. They're used in the heat of the moment with things like domestic violence or suicide. That's actually the biggest problem we have in this country and those situations are what we need gun control more for.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of think the people stockpiling like 30 guns are a bit loony, but whatever. We all have our things, I guess.

But I kind of feel like the mainstream left likes to grab the big scary/loony people and try to legislate against that in order to piss less people off. Unfortunately real reforms requires taking away the fucking pistol your uncle or neighbor or whatever keeps in his bedside table. Statistically. But that's too far.
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But people don't need to own assault rifles. They are made specifically for killing people.
 
Piggus said:
People who like guns tend to have more than one, as all guns are different. It's not that hard to understand...

That's like asking why someone who loves cars would own more than one.
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Not really. That’d be like saying you have multiple cars all to get to work, when in actuality you only need one, maybe two if you live in a place with weird terrain. If you have one to defend, you can use that excuse. If you have 10, don’t lie and say it’s for defense because it’s clearly just because you like guns
 
I've always wondered why people who want to commit these mass murders don't do something similar to this.

Similar to the night club shootings, there is literally nowhere for people to go and all a shooter needs to do is spray into a crowed to inflict maximum carnage.

Be sure to pray extra hard so this totally never happens again until it happens again and then you pray hard so everyone knows you're thinking thoughtful thoughts while people are bleeding out in hospitals from tools that are designed to kill other people which are completely legal with minimal background checks because you got ten grand from the NRA.
 
RDreamer said:
One point where I tend to split a bit with the mainstream left on this is here. I don't think people stockpiling tons of guns is really the scary thing we need to prevent. I think statistically the people with tons of guns probably are the ones not terribly likely to do much with them. This particular shooting is a bit of an outlier. Most gun deaths aren't the guys with 30+ guns. They're not the long rifles. They're not the scary fully/semi-automatic ARs. They're handguns and they're people who only have one. They're used in the heat of the moment with things like domestic violence or suicide. That's actually the biggest problem we have in this country and those situations are what we need gun control more for.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of think the people stockpiling like 30 guns are a bit loony, but whatever. We all have our things, I guess.

But I kind of feel like the mainstream left likes to grab the big scary/loony people and try to legislate against that in order to piss less people off. Unfortunately real reforms requires taking away the fucking pistol your uncle or neighbor or whatever keeps in his bedside table. Statistically. But that's too far.
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The problem is these people with huge arsenals going on to pawn off or sell their extra guns at gun shows, where gun laws are heinously lax.
 
RDreamer said:
One point where I tend to split a bit with the mainstream left on this is here. I don't think people stockpiling tons of guns is really the scary thing we need to prevent. I think statistically the people with tons of guns probably are the ones not terribly likely to do much with them. This particular shooting is a bit of an outlier. Most gun deaths aren't the guys with 30+ guns. They're not the long rifles. They're not the scary fully/semi-automatic ARs. They're handguns and they're people who only have one. They're used in the heat of the moment with things like domestic violence or suicide. That's actually the biggest problem we have in this country and those situations are what we need gun control more for.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of think the people stockpiling like 30 guns are a bit loony, but whatever. We all have our things, I guess.

But I kind of feel like the mainstream left likes to grab the big scary/loony people and try to legislate against that in order to piss less people off. Unfortunately real reforms requires taking away the fucking pistol your uncle or neighbor or whatever keeps in his bedside table. Statistically. But that's too far.
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Yeah, it sometimes feels like killing 5+ people is bad, but killing one is a-ok.

I mean is obvious why these incidents get more media attention but they make a small fraction of all gun deaths, and even assault rifles only constitute about 30% of what the FBI consider a mass shooting(4 deaths or more)

Although there is also the argument that you must learn to walk before you run, people go insane with just the idea of banning rifles, imagine what they would say if they tried to ban all guns.
 
maladroit said:
I own multiple firearms because my house is 40+ minutes (via car) from the closest police station. I've had to use them to both defend myself and to shoot wildlife that's attacked my animals. Where do you live?
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I grew up in the middle of nowhere an hour away from a 2 car constable station and I've heard all the tough guy stories about protecting their land.

9/10 are kids probably committing petty crimes. 1/10 might have been a thief breaking in who didn't pose an actual threat. One story ever was a drug cooker who killed 3 Ditos in his trailer before the rest got him. I'm not sure anyone wants to argue the criminal killing is a good "personal protection" story.

And it doesn't take more than a single-shot rifle to run off almost any animal. Unless your flushing a snake den.

Where I grew up, the only people you had to be afraid of were people you weren't going to do shit about anyway guns or not because the retribution for trying to stop what they were doing would be worse. No one was fucking with the La EmE members or the Banditos.
 
Ozigizo said:
But people don't need to own assault rifles. They are made specifically for killing people.
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No, I agree. People don't need to own assault rifles. They don't need to own pistols. By and large they need none of them. People should be able to get a gun with a long wait, situational training, self defense classes, licensing, checks on gun safes, and a multitude of laws to make sure your gun goes nowhere. I belief very strict gun control is necessary. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that just banning "assault rifles" doesn't actually do much of anything to end our real problem with guns. We need real gun control. We need people to acknowledge the real problems and which guns are part of those problems on a more statistically significant basis.

Mahonay said:
The problem is these people with huge arsenals going on to pawn off or sell their extra guns at gun shows, where gun laws are heinously lax.
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Totally fucking agreed. Shouldn't be able to sell your shit to anyone. You want a gun? Sure, have it (after doing the things I stated above). Now it's yours and you are responsible for what that gun does. Want to get rid of it? Take it in to a proper disposal facility.
 
50+ dead and 500+ injured. Jesus, the scope of something like that. Forgive me for not keeping up with events, but I have a cold and have been drifting in and out of consciousness. Every time I wake up the story is worse.
 
Captainbojanglesiii said:
Why would you even want 10+ guns? I guess if you’re a hunter and just keep upgrading, or if you collect them, but stuff like that rings an alarm, even with those two ‘excuses’

Just a terrible day. Hope the motive becomes clear, so the full story is there, but probably another case of someone with clear mental illness getting their hands on multiple weapons. Awful. RIP to those who passed
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I know a guy who has a basement of guns and ammo. Everything from handguns to rifles and shotguns. He is also liberal but just has a firm belief about firearms. He and his family hunt and go to the range together.

I personally have multiple guns as well including a shotgun. Having more than one gun in America is not unusual.
 
Captainbojanglesiii said:
Not really. That’d be like saying you have multiple cars all to get to work, when in actuality you only need one, maybe two if you live in a place with weird terrain. If you have one to defend, you can use that excuse. If you have 10, don’t lie and say it’s for defense because it’s clearly just because you like guns
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That's what I meant. Having a bunch of guns for defense is not really normal. What I meant is it's not abnormal for people who like guns for other reasons (collecting, target shooting, etc) to have lots of guns.
 
Mahonay said:
The problem is these people with huge arsenals going on to pawn off or sell their extra guns at gun shows, where gun laws are heinously lax.
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Or do a private under the table sale to their buddy who can't pass a background check. I knew plenty of people who were on strike 3 with guns that their family had bought for them.
 
Ozigizo said:
Nobody is hunting with an assault rifles. We can drop that line now.

Tell me, what problem would banning them cause?
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I need someone to explain or me too why anyone needs to own an AR.
StoOgE said:
Or do a private under the table sale to their buddy who can't pass a background check. I knew plenty of people who were on strike 3 with guns that their family had bought for them.
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Oof. Yeah.
 
RDreamer said:
One point where I tend to split a bit with the mainstream left on this is here. I don't think people stockpiling tons of guns is really the scary thing we need to prevent. I think statistically the people with tons of guns probably are the ones not terribly likely to do much with them. This particular shooting is a bit of an outlier. Most gun deaths aren't the guys with 30+ guns. They're not the long rifles. They're not the scary fully/semi-automatic ARs. They're handguns and they're people who only have one. They're used in the heat of the moment with things like domestic violence or suicide. That's actually the biggest problem we have in this country and those situations are what we need gun control more for.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of think the people stockpiling like 30 guns are a bit loony, but whatever. We all have our things, I guess.

But I kind of feel like the mainstream left likes to grab the big scary/loony people and try to legislate against that in order to piss less people off. Unfortunately real reforms requires taking away the fucking pistol your uncle or neighbor or whatever keeps in his bedside table. Statistically. But that's too far.
Click to expand...

Handguns may be a bigger problem, but that's not an argument for why people should be allowed to own assault rifles or other automatic weapons. People have been saying something like this could happen for ages, the fucking things are made for this - killing people, that is their purpose.
 
RDreamer said:
One point where I tend to split a bit with the mainstream left on this is here. I don't think people stockpiling tons of guns is really the scary thing we need to prevent. I think statistically the people with tons of guns probably are the ones not terribly likely to do much with them. This particular shooting is a bit of an outlier. Most gun deaths aren't the guys with 30+ guns. They're not the long rifles. They're not the scary fully/semi-automatic ARs. They're handguns and they're people who only have one. They're used in the heat of the moment with things like domestic violence or suicide. That's actually the biggest problem we have in this country and those situations are what we need gun control more for.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of think the people stockpiling like 30 guns are a bit loony, but whatever. We all have our things, I guess.

But I kind of feel like the mainstream left likes to grab the big scary/loony people and try to legislate against that in order to piss less people off. Unfortunately real reforms requires taking away the fucking pistol your uncle or neighbor or whatever keeps in his bedside table. Statistically. But that's too far.
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I mean, I don't see how you part with the "mainstream left" when we aren't even discussing the specifics of the regulations. From what I've seen "mainstream leftists" are for SENSIBLE gun reforms AKA background checks regardless of where firearms are purchased, and bans on sales for felons/watch list/mentally ill people. Past that, we can talk about some reform on just what types of AR's and what type of capacity should be allowed, because like it or not, these large scale mass-shootings are often times carried out using a AR with a large capacity magazine.

We are never going to convince people to ban handguns, regardless of how much violence they cause....but, if we can at least keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them, it will at least lessen the number of deaths that occur every year.
 
Ozigizo said:
Nobody is hunting with an assault rifles.

Tell me, what problem would banning them cause?
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People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn’t work and banning drugs didn’t work and banning firearms also won’t work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic
 
psychowave said:
What if I enjoy collecting bombs, or grenades, or nuclear warheads? Should I be allowed to?
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Sure if you can afford it.
Arrogant Bastard said:
And what happens when the person who has collected guns their entire life gets old and/or snaps?

Oh wait, we might have one of the the answers to that with what just happened.
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Who knows what the future will bring? But I rather not do the "what if this and that".
EmiPrime said:
They can collect something else that wasn't made with the express purpose of maiming and killing people instead.
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Everyone has their own hobbies. No on should be judging your interest.
 
Man reading some of the stories of people stepping in front of women and younger people to shield them from bullets only to get shot themselves (and die in a few cases) is heart wrenching and inspiring at the same time.

Such a waste.
 
On twitter I see an interesting point made.

Perhaps suicide by gun violence (death by cop) is higher because humane assisted suicide is illegal/taboo. It is part of the mental health argument but I imagine the NRA does not want any link established between weapons used against the world and suicidal people.
 
efyu_lemonardo said:
Tough
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In their defence: These kind of collectors usually don't collect automatic rifles, they collect ancient one shooters.

They want stuff that is rare, not the "latest and greatest, killertastic superduper terror horror device from Smith And Wesson!". Stuff that the Las Vegas Terrorist had is usually not stuff a collector wants.
 
I've lived in this country for almost a decade now and the gun fetishization is the one thing I've never fully grasped. It turns otherwise reasonable people rabid. I can understand a hunting rifle or even a shotgun, but handguns and automatic or semi automatic weapons? You lose me there.
 
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