Support NeoGAF

[TheLostBigBoss]

.

 

[JBourne]

Yup

The core identity of what the site become, which is a rejection of the alt right that has plagued gaming has been thrown out for expediency.

Can't wait for the influx of people who were long since dejected and removed for their frankly horrid views pour back in under the guise of a "new" gaming focused culture.

It's already there, too. This site went from great to Gamefaqs in a matter of hours.

 

[Ethelwulf]

I think i've read that statement(not sure if the post i read is the statement).
And i dont see the problem with it.
Mods were expecting a more agressive statement because they feared the community were aggresive towards them if not?
In my opinion that means that the community overreacts a lot and need to to take things more calmly.

Exactly and he didn't, which made mods feel let down. A similar thing happened now. This is not a black or white situation I would agree with that. But is rather serious if you ask me. True or not, folks who have been around here for more than 15 years are leaving because of this. That is sad to watch.

 

[Longshot]

Just do it.

Why, so he can get banned for having an opinion?

He's better off blaming Trump, GamerGate or some other phantom that doesn't exist around here.

 

[Number_6]

Hypothetical question for you though, if she added that point to her facebook post would it have garnered a different reaction?

In my mind her statement would have lost a bit of impact, while you can put that to one side, it's a question that people are going to be asking.

For some people they can't imagine ever entering into a relationship with someone who "sexually harassed" them.

If you'd quoted my very next sentence, you'd have your answer.

You seem to think that she wanted this big impact and reaction and deliberately withheld info for maximum effect. No. She posted a #metoo for her fb friends, and she didn't initially name names. It's other people that screenshot it and ran with it.

Countless women have posted #metoo, not for individual attention, but for solidarity and awareness. I bet there's women who are even married to their #metoo offender. Doesn't change how she felt in that moment.

Is bolded the bit calling her not credible? Or is there something else he said (if so could I get forwarded to it?)

Also the bit about they dating later being irrelevant is not gonna fly anywhere, especially if this goes to court. Even if she says "for the longestime I just thought that was a druken mistake but now (after other actions) I feel disgusted" it's still pretty relevant

It was in a Waypoint post/article. https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ct-allegations-rocking-neogafs-last-48-hoursd

Who is talking about court? It was a #metoo. Her feelings and his jackass behavior followed by his jackass response are what's relevant. Fuck.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

This. I'm scared to share my opinion because I would either be labeled GG or SJW.

It’s a message board with fake names, not some morning news station with your face and real name plastered everywhere.

 

[Patrick S.]

I kind of want to apply for a position as a mod, but I'm not sure if I would be up to the standard... Does anyone know if there is some kind of written guide mods have access to? I only ever was a mod in one of the largest Spanish IRC channels, and that is already... my God... almost twenty years in the past.

 

[YoungFa]

He didn’t assault her. According to her she said back off and he backed off

He would you call it if I suddenly and uninvited joined your shower?

 

[TumblingHippo]

This site now feels like an Onion article: "Gamer looks forward to playing new gaming system designed to work while head is stuck underground!"

Look forward to your PewDiePie Community page and discussions on why Wolfenstein TNC goes too far politically.

 

[Markoman]

So hm, I honestly don't know where I stand right now. Maybe the reactions to my post will answer my questions. If I turn grey, well...bye.

Do I think that grabbing a woman's butt in a club or a failed attempt of "naked man" is a big deal? Not cool, but there are way bigger isues in this world. It just one thing that never should've happened to you, Evilore, for obvious reasons. You can't say "drinking is bad" in front of your kids while sucking on a bottle of gin and that's all there is to say.
(Oh, since no clear evidence this isn't a direct accusation).

Tyler, you have to realize that most of the people jumping on you now are the ones you've tried to protect with the censorship on this site. It's plain and simple: the experiment has failed in some parts- the utopia has turned into some kind of distopia. Not since friday btw. Echochamber is the word I keep hearing when others talk about NeoGaf.

I will use an annecdote -not to defend myself in context to what is happening to you right now- but to adress one of Gaf's biggest problems:
2 years ago at E3 there was a tree-house thread with pretty heavy traffic as usual with these kind of threads.
One of the female Treehouse presenters in the stream had a very big pair of breasts in a very tight shirt. And surprise, surprise what do you guys think happened next? What happens when you wave a steak in front of your doggo? Yeah right, animalistic instincts kick in and some male gaffers couldn't help themselves but comment on what was on display there. I chuckled, left a harmless, stupid comment myself. No harm was done.
Of course, there are parts of Gaf thinking that following your instinct is an act of babarism...no further comment. It is what it is.

A few minutes later a new thread appears "pervs in the treehouse thread". I immediately stepped into this thread to confront the catholic school boys and girls with the fact that whatever happened in the treehouse thread was not an act of perversion. Bottom line: I don't give a fuck about who was wrong or right. I got banned, of course, because I was trying to provoke the users in the reaction thread for the immature way they were dealing with this shit. My choice of words was off for Gaf-readers as the mod decided. I accepted my ban and moved on. BUT In hindsight I think the OT should've been banned, too, for comming up with such a stupid and toxic thread. Not to give justice to me, but to save your own rules from going down the drain.

Why am I writing this now: because the double standards are what hurt this site and all of our modern culture most. You can't come up with a set of rules + values and just hope for the best. History has shown many times how easily "good" values are corrupted in an instant, because no one factors in what it means to be human. Big parts of the community on Gaf have a very exaggerated and distorted ideal of mankind. Yes Tyler, you've been a very bad boy for touching a woman's butt unasked. Instead of attacking people on the inet with our keyboards, maybe we should assemble some sort of Swat-force which pays regular visits to our local clubs, so we can call out all those filthy ass-grabbing pigs directly and bring those innocent girls back to their parents.

Isn't it ironic that only a week ago I would've been banned in 10 sec just for asking "why is a girl who's in a relationship hanging out with another man in a hotel room getting drunk?"

Whatever, life goes on. I enjoyed my time here and I hope you guys can sort this shit out with a fresh start.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

This. I'm scared to share my opinion because I would either be labeled GG or SJW.

Exactly. GAF, on gaming side of off topic seems to have a hard time of meeting people in the middle these days. In gaming, all of those Switch threads where if you dare say anything negative in a positive Switch thread you're either salty or a console warrior.

In off topic, all of those threads where if you dare say anything even remotely suggesting a minutr right wing stance, you're a gamer gate sympathiser or a horrible person. It's just silly. Real, balanced discussion hasn't been a thing on GAF for some time now.

 

[Logash]

Ok now that the dust has settled here's my 2 cents, FWIW:

I want to separate the accusation from the way the whole situation was handled . I wasn't online when the whole thing blew up, and I'm really frustrated at how it was handled. Taken the entire site offline, with no explanation - on site or social media - is just piss poor, make the forum read-only or at a bare minimum a simple html page. Took over a day just to get something back to normal. I think the community - and right now that's the most important thing - deserved better. And the OT post and the Waypoint article aren't exactly reassuring TBH.

The community will probably never be the same, in particular PoliGAF, let's see what comes out of the new administration, but the community wasn't the main priority in all this mess.

I'll say this for sure, there is definitely a double standard when you can have a thread about someone accusing a Naughty Dog employee of something but you can't have one about the founder of Neogaf. I posted above how I don't like mob culture but at the same time, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. It's not okay that the threads were closing.

 

[PhantomThief]

He didn’t assault her. According to her she said back off and he backed off

And later called her mentally unstable

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

It's already there, too. This site went from great to Gamefaqs in a matter of hours.

Well yea, there were always people who simply didn't speak out because they knew their garbage wouldn't be tolerated, which is fine by me, if you want to bitch about gamergate or how youtube personalities are unfairly criticized for saying nigger, go to r/kotakuinaction or what ever shit hole banned GAF members go when thrown out the window.

 

[Ragnarsson]

I will keep it civil, like I always tried to do since I became a member. This forum no longer makes sense to me. It's not just about the allegations, though they are undoubtedly highly relevant and should be taken very seriously - a forum which prides itself in defending progressive ideals and doesn't take the allegations in a serious manner is hipocritical and should reevaluate its priorities and values. It's about a pattern on dealing with this kind of drama - a few months ago, the whole Amirox ordeal, now this. In both instances, the administration failed to tackle the drama in a transparent and adequate manner. Closing threads, banning inquisitive voices, shutting the forum down... those aren't answers. They're pretty much gag orders. I didn't even realize the whole extent of the Amirox case, because I wasn't around much during those weeks. I only knew that Amirox was arrested for child pornography, and that he had been a moderator a few years before. Only now have I learned about the famous 2012 Spain posts. A forum that openly criticized echo chambers is rapidly and dangerously delving into one, and I don't want to be a part of that. I was really enjoying talking about The Last Night with people who had disagreeing views on the issue. I shouldn't be afraid that those people are banned just because of a faux-pas or a moment of fleeting rage, while people with similar views to mine but who also commit the same kinds of rhetorical mistakes in the heat of the moment are usually unpunished.

A forum is not its administrator, but an administrator is an important part of a forum. Clearly, prized members of the community have left. There is a lack of confidence in the admin. He should step down, and let the whole thing be dealt with in a more serious manner.

I don't engage much with users outside the forum - I don't even know what a Discord is, though I would love to know more about it and talk to people I miss from over here. I will be moving to where the community is - hopefully something like ResetEra, if I manage to get an invitation. It's clearly not this forum.

 

[CoolOff]

So, I had a bunch of OT-threads that I had subbed to to read when I had time, because they contained interesting posts/links/guides/whatever. I'm shit out of luck ain't I?

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Why, so he can get banned for having an opinion?

He's better off blaming Trump, GamerGate or some other phantom that doesn't exist around here.

I've always voiced my own opinion and have never been banned for it. I got into arguments with many regulars and mods even, but because my position was backed by explanations and sources, I was never banned.

Communicate intelligently. Don't be a coward. Post what you feel.

 

[Logash]

Exactly. GAF, on gaming side of off topic seems to have a hard time of meeting people in the middle these days. In gaming, all of those Switch threads where if you dare say anything negative in a positive Switch thread you're either salty or a console warrior.

I'm off topic, all of those threads where if you dare say anything even remotely suggesting a minutr right wing stance, you're a gamer gate sympathiser or a horrible person. It's just silly. Real, balanced discussion hasn't been a thing on GAF for some time now.

This is my exact problem. What the fuck happened to people being people? Human beings are inherently complicated and can have more than one opinion.

 

[MangoMoustache]

Even if he is "guilty" the situation we have is what she alleges isn't as serious as some of you think it is, even in the court of law.

Let's break it down, he entered a shower naked and then immediately left when asked. This is the accusers statement, not evilores.

Yet some people are acting as though he entered the shower naked, was told to leave but stayed and kept trying to force her into a physical act.

An unwanted sexual advance, when the victim was particularly vulnerable due to being sick and vomiting isn't serious? What if this was your mother? Your sister? Your friend?

Would you tell them their traumatic experience wasn't serious?

If you really want to break things down, the victim had a boyfriend and made no indication of interest towards Malka. Malka then, without warning, exposes himself to the victim while they were in a vulnerable state.

Did he try to force her into a "physical act," no. Did he indecently expose himself in an attempt to start a "physical act" that the victim did not consent to, yes.

Women have to put up with this at every turn. The reason they don't talk about it is because it's downplayed the second it's brought up.

Even if he is "guilty" the situation we have is what she alleges isn't as serious as some of you think it is, even in the court of law.

Your statement is a literal textbook example for why #metoo started trending.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

This post should have just been called: Boys will be Boys

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

And later called her mentally unstable

This too.

This entire incident is so benign compared to the sexual assault cases in the news that he could have said,

"The incident she accounted was mainly accurate, I was rejected after making a drunk move at a horrible time and while she was in a relationship, I didn't push it further when she said no".

Wow, so hard to just admit that your nice guy facade failed that you had to smear her and say she was mentally unstable!

 

[ExVicis]

I don't think anyone is an EviLore cultist TBH.

I think people are addicted to the experience of GAF (I am) and they want to stick to what they know... which I understand. I just think the thing we want to cling to might be dead already.

Trust me I could wax with you in a sometime about how this drama has exposed a lot of hypocrisy and we'd have a laugh about how it all went down. I just don't think the current regime-holders are the victors in this exposure....

I don't think there are any victors in this situation. Everyone loses. Like I've been saying, there's not going to be an old NeoGAF. And likely there won't be an heir to NeoGAF either. At least in the way that everyone's thinking. At best we'll get a bunch of different communities that have overlapping members but likely nothing as big. And that's really the sad part about all of this. Regardless of what any of us do, we're still all being broken apart in the end.

 

[Lucumo]

So, I had a bunch of OT-threads that I had subbed to to read when I had time, because they contained interesting posts/links/guides/whatever. I'm shit out of luck ain't I?

Here you go:

For those worried: OT has not been deleted, and important threads will be archived for recovery once it's open again.

I guess "important" threads is pretty vague...but yeah, I, too, had several interesting threads bookmarked.

 

[CoolOff]

Here you go:

Good. I'll keep a lookout then.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

This too.

This entire incident is so benign compared to the sexual assault cases in the news that he could have said,

"The incident she accounted was mainly accurate, I was rejected after making a drunk move at a horrible time and while she was in a relationship, I didn't push it further when she said no".

Wow, so hard to just admit that your nice guy facade failed that you had to smear her and say she was mentally unstable!

Never has there been a more appropriate thread for the good 'ol "shooting yourself in the foot" meme.

 

[HariKari]

This is my exact problem. What the fuck happened to people being people? Human beings are inherently complicated and can have more than one opinion.

People want to escalate and be loud on the internet. A lot of the departed being the most problematic in that regard.

 

[The Pope]

Oh right assault can only be physical contact, nothing more. My apologies.

He allegedly made an uncalled advance and she declined. He then left her in the shower.
Not rape , not sexual assault. At most harassment, though it wasn't repeated.

I think people forget what a little bit of alcohol and feelings can make people do. Evilore would have been wiser to just admit it and express profound regret. Unless it really has no basis in truth.

Alas the accused is MIA.

Still: Evilore bring back OT ASAP, and make the forum normal again. Best course of action imo. Ban people for bringing it up outside of designated threads. It's just come across as Orwellian to remove OT though. Just appointment new mods, with similiar high standards. Proceed as prior. Maybe learn the lesson of allowing witch hunts on your forums on the basis of allegations

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

So hm, I honestly don't know where I stand right now. Maybe the reactions to my post will answer my questions. If I turn grey, well...bye.

Do I think that grabbing a woman's butt in a club or a failed attempt of "naked man" is a big deal? Not cool, but there are way bigger isues in this world. It just one thing that never should've happened to you, Evilore, for obvious reasons. You can't say "drinking is bad" in front of your kids while sucking on a bottle of gin and that's all there is to say.
(Oh, since no clear evidence this isn't a direct accusation).

Tyler, you have to realize that most of the people jumping on you now are the ones you've tried to protect with the censorship on this site. It's plain and simple: the experiment has failed in some parts- the utopia has turned into some kind of distopia. Not since friday btw. Echochamber is the word I keep hearing when others talk about NeoGaf.

I will use an annecdote -not to defend myself in context to what is happening to you right now- but to adress one of Gaf's biggest problems:
2 years ago at E3 there was a tree-house thread with pretty heavy traffic as usual with these kind of threads.
One of the female Treehouse presenters in the stream had a very big pair of breasts in a very tight shirt. And surprise, surprise what do you guys think happened next? What happens when you wave a steak in front of your doggo? Yeah right, animalistic instincts kick in and some male gaffers couldn't help themselves but comment on what was on display there. I chuckled, left a harmless, stupid comment myself. No harm was done.
Of course, there are parts of Gaf thinking that following your instinct is an act of babarism...no further comment. It is what it is.

A few minutes later a new thread appears "pervs in the treehouse thread". I immediately stepped into this thread to confront the catholic school boys and girls with the fact that whatever happened in the treehouse thread was not an act of perversion. Bottom line: I don't give a fuck about who was wrong or right. I got banned, of course, because I was trying to provoke the users in the reaction thread for the immature way they were dealing with this shit. My choice of words was off for Gaf-readers as the mod decided. I accepted my ban and moved on. BUT In hindsight I think the OT should've been banned, too, for comming up with such a stupid and toxic thread. Not to give justice to me, but to save your own rules from going down the drain.

Why am I writing this now: because the double standards are what hurt this site and all of our modern culture most. You can't come up with a set of rules + values and just hope for the best. History has shown many times how easily "good" values are corrupted in an instant, because no one factors in what it means to be human. Big parts of the community on Gaf have a very exaggerated and distorted ideal of mankind. Yes Tyler, you've been a very bad boy for touching a woman's butt unasked. Instead of attacking people on the inet with our keyboards, maybe we should assemble some sort of Swat-force which pays regular visits to our local clubs, so we can call out all those filthy ass-grabbing pigs directly and bring those innocent girls back to their parents.

Isn't it ironic that only a week ago I would've been banned in 10 sec just for asking "why is a girl who's in a relationship hanging out with another man in a hotel room getting drunk?"

Whatever, life goes on. I enjoyed my time here and I hope you guys can sort this shit out with a fresh start.

What in the actual hell?

You don’t have to act on your instincts. Keep shit to yourself

Just because the situation didn’t end up in rape doesn’t make it any less traumatic for the person involved.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

The shills need to go otherwise nothing has changed. I'm also getting tired of the PlayStation hive mind around here, hey I'm even a fan and it's embarrassing some of the shit that is given a free pass on here compared to fans who play on other platforms. It's not right and it's disingenuous. The dog piling is embarrassing too, to anyone who speaks out on this shit. It's there for all to see. Sort it out otherwise it's just business as usual.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

It was in a Waypoint post/article. https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ct-allegations-rocking-neogafs-last-48-hoursd

Who is talking about court? It was a #metoo. Her feelings and his jackass behavior followed by his jackass response are what's relevant. Fuck.

Woah that's really really bad and her response to it was exactly what I thought (which, if anything, shows she's pretty sensible). While he didn't do anything physical this whole situation and his comments stink even worse than just this thread, holy crap. Even if I'm glad the mod culture and people with snarky hot takes are probably gone, I don't think I wanna support this if it's true.

Yeah gonna go take a step back, thanks for the link.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

He allegedly made an uncalled advance and she declined. He then left her in the shower.
Not rape , not sexual assault. At most harassment, though it wasn't repeated.

I think people forget what a little bit of alcohol and feelings can make people do.

Alas the accused is MIA.

Still: Evilore bring back OT ASAP, and make the forum normal again. Best course of action imo. Ban people for bringing it up outside of designated threads. It's just come across as Orwellian to remove OT though. Just appointment new mods, with similiar high standards. Proceed as prior. Maybe learn the lesson of allowing witch hunts on your forums on the basis of allegations

Oh right the good ole alcohol excuse. I forgot when you get drunk all rules are off amirite?

 

[PanicFreak]

So no more OT? Welp, see ya photoGAF and NFLGAF. It was fun while it lasted.

 

[OCD Guy]

If you really want to break things down, the victim had a boyfriend and made no indication of interest towards Malka. Malka then, without warning, exposes himself to the victim while they were in a vulnerable state.
.

How do you know she made no indication of interest? Were you there?

Why is everyone taking her statement as fact? Is it out of the realms of reality that she is a bitter ex girlfriend trying to get "revenge"?

Believe it or not but that shit happens too you know.

 

[palpabl_purpura]

You have no obligations to respect me

Thanks.

Hell yes, they do have an obligation to respect you, and to respect that there are two sides to every story and that this could have happened to anyone.

 

[nature boy]

I'll say this for sure, there is definitely a double standard when you can have a thread about someone accusing a Naughty Dog employee of something but you can't have one about the founder of Neogaf. I posted above how I don't like mob culture but at the same time, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. It's not okay that the threads were closing.

Agreed, but I don't think the mods could've kept the forum under control, especially if most of them were quitting. Wasn't here when it happened, but it seemed it got out of control. Should've made it read-only, let people cool down a bit, reopen and let people commit account suicide if they wanted no part.

Administration clearly didn't have the community's best interests at hand, IMO. And yes, it's not the first time either.

 

[Yaari]

How do you know she made no indication of interest? Were you there?

Why is everyone taking her statement as fact? Is it out of the realms of reality that she is a bitter ex girlfriend trying to get "revenge"

Revenge as in that time Evilore posted revenge porn with name details on an ex-gf?

 

[120v]

How will science topics be dealt with? Because certain aspects of it like climate change are usually politicized.

i think the idea is to get identity politics out of the way, not broad "political discussion". i'm not sure how that would be meted out exactly, but i think the crux of the matter is every other thread has become a minefield/graveyard and it's a little stressful for a ... gaming forum, of all things

i know it's kind of blithe "but it's all about the games!" but there's just so many other places to go to hash out ideology

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

This too.

This entire incident is so benign compared to the sexual assault cases in the news that he could have said,

"The incident she accounted was mainly accurate, I was rejected after making a drunk move at a horrible time and while she was in a relationship, I didn't push it further when she said no".

Wow, so hard to just admit that your nice guy facade failed that you had to smear her and say she was mentally unstable!

I love how people gloss over this. His taking a fit and nuking threads and accounts left and right while smearing the victim is what proved he's a manchild who didn't learn after hurting that person and who knows how many others.

 

[kingocfs]

Please ban me and delete my account. Thanks!

 

[Officerrob]

So no more OT? Welp, see ya photoGAF and NFLGAF. It was fun while it lasted.

OT will be back, the vast majority of NFLGAF will not be. No idea about photoGAF

 

[psychowave]

Revenge as in that time Evilore posted revenge porn with name details on an ex-gf?

Is there anywhere I can read about this?

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I think people forget what a little bit of alcohol and feelings can make people do.

Intoxication isn't a valid legal or moral defense if becoming stupified is self-induced.

 

[Serpens007]

Well, I'm glad GAF is back. I mean, all of this is just sad, I hope it gets clarified and truth prevails, whatever it is. I think GAF is more than just one person, but of course it tackles us all.

In any case, I think all of this could have been handled better, to say the least. Just like JonTron's scandals.


Stay strong GAF users.

 

[frankMX]

I come here to talk about games and read some some interesting comments about games.Sometimes not so often I will go to off topic forum to hang around.That's all I want.

 

[PhantomThief]

This too.

This entire incident is so benign compared to the sexual assault cases in the news that he could have said,

"The incident she accounted was mainly accurate, I was rejected after making a drunk move at a horrible time and while she was in a relationship, I didn't push it further when she said no".

Wow, so hard to just admit that your nice guy facade failed that you had to smear her and say she was mentally unstable!

Exactly. If he said exactly that it would be good enough for me.

Saying she js mentally unstable is like a weird admission of guilt to me.

 

[Yaari]

Is there anywhere I can read about this?

Google: "evilore opa age"

 

[beato_angelico]

GAF was politicised though, that much is true. I bring this up again, but EviLore went on Twitter and said that GAF supports the Paris agreement. Not him, GAF. Now, I'm a supporter of the agreement and a staunch liberal at that, but when on earth did EviLore, or any admin of GAF for that matter, become a mouthpiece for my opinions?

This is a gaming forum, that supposedly prides itself on not being a hivemind and welcoming of open discourse. This is far and away from what GAF has become over the past couple of years. Off-topic especially had become especially toxic, with little room for proper discourse and varying opinions, and that nonsense leaked into gaming side, where too often there would be threads regarding social issues in the industry that ended up being echo chambers of us vs. them. That is not what this forum is about.

Bigotry and hate do not belong on this forum, but this goes for those of us on the left and those on the right end of the spectrum. EviLore and the mods should have done a far better job of keeping this in check than they did, and instead all GAF became was an insular mob who rallied to slander and bully everyone and everything that it collectively felt did not match up with the forum's consensus opinion.

I hope this changes going forward.

I agree with most of the post though I would say that if this place is going to survive there have to be much more proactive words and action from Evilore, not just better/more balanced moderation. There has to be some serious soul-searching.

You can't eliminate political and social discussion now, after the place became so famous/notorious for its political leanings. It just came off as weak and muddy at best. Politics would just spill over to every other topic just in a much more toxic way.

You can't say that moderation became too difficult because Trump. Things started way back and Evilore has direct responsibilities. If he want this place to be something more than a sad remnant he needs to listen carefully to us who have not fled yet (the zealots aren't coming back, the "general public" will stay the hell away from this at least now)

 

[The Pope]

Oh right the good ole alcohol excuse. I forgot when you get drunk all rules are off amirite?

No. But it is a factor.

 

[Rav3n90]

I no longer want to be part of a community run by a toxic shitbag like you; we should have sided with women back then, we must do it now.

 

[Anarion07]

What in the actual hell?

You don’t have to act on your instincts. Keep shit to yourself

Just because the situation didn’t end up in rape doesn’t make it any less traumatic for the person involved.

You are comparing rape to an alleged case of sexual harrasment by someone who actually had a sexual relationship with her AFTER the incident happened.

For her this was clearly less traumatic than rape.