Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)

octiny said:
1) There will be a 400-500% IPC increase over jaguar cores with Zen 2 cores at same speed, possibly more with a faster clock speed. So yes, AI/Physics will get a huge boost.
2) Native 4K gaming is already a thing on X with the majority of games at only 6.2TF. So 11TF+ will no doubt deliver 4K games with ease, on top of the massively upgraded CPU.
3) Developers will use how many cores necessary to meet their criteria, this is console, not PC, so if it has 8 cores, it will use all 8 cores (if needed) as it's being developed with 1 system spec in mind as the baseline. Even on the PC side of things, more & more games are taking advantage of more than 4 cores. Especially when it comes to minimum frame rate percentiles.
4) Titan Z is a dual-gpu card released years ago & if you mean Titan V, well that card is 15TF & the PS5 will not be 8TF....expect anywhere between 11-12tf realistically.
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"There will be a 400-500% IPC increase over jaguar cores with Zen 2 cores at same speed, possibly more with a faster clock speed. So yes, AI/Physics will get a huge boost." "PS5 will not be 8TF....expect anywhere between 11-12tf realistically."
Lol we don't even know for sure what the ps5 hardware is,do you really believe in RUMOURS? how do you know if ps5 will not use a custom made LOW-LEVEL ryzen cpu?

looks like everyone is wait the BIG-leap,dont get me wrong I would be happy if BOTH true 4k@30fps and big leap would happen but everyone forget the PRICE range would you buy a ps5 for 800-1000usd? I don't think Sony is stupid enough to sell a console what is a "true big leap" with native 4k for price like 600usd or even 700.
 
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borzas2010 said:
"There will be a 400-500% IPC increase over jaguar cores with Zen 2 cores at same speed, possibly more with a faster clock speed. So yes, AI/Physics will get a huge boost." "PS5 will not be 8TF....expect anywhere between 11-12tf realistically."
Lol we don't even know for sure what the ps5 hardware is,do you really believe in RUMOURS? how do you know if ps5 will not use a custom made LOW-LEVEL ryzen cpu?

looks like everyone is wait the BIG-leap,dont get me wrong I would be happy if BOTH true 4k@30fps and big leap would happen but everyone forget the PRICE range would you buy a ps5 for 800-1000usd? I don't think Sony is stupid enough to sell a console what is a "true big leap" with native 4k for price like 600usd or even 700.
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You do realize that 400-500% IPC increase is based on a Ryzen APU vs Jaguar cores correct? That's as low-level as it'll get.

Estimating what will be available on the market with AMD road maps, you don't even need rumours to measure what is most likely going to be used in it. Where are you coming up with this $1000 price tag? That's ludicrous. Ryzen console with 11-12TF late 2019/ early 2020 is easily feasible for $400-$500.
 
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My prediction for ps5
Zen @2.8ghz
Navi 10-12 tf
24gb ram gddr6 but 16 minimun for games, rest for SO.
2tf ssHD.
Gpu and cpu all in 7nn.
I hope the new ps5 have a silence cooling system, my ps4 pro has too louded in some games.
 
octiny said:
You do realize that 400-500% IPC increase is based on a Ryzen APU vs Jaguar cores correct? That's as low-level as it'll get.

Estimating what will be available on the market with AMD road maps, you don't even need rumours to measure what is most likely going to be used in it. Where are you coming up with this $1000 price tag? That's ludicrous. Ryzen console with 11-12TF late 2019/ early 2020 is easily feasible for $400-$500.
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"Where are you coming up with this $1000 price tag? That's ludicrous. Ryzen console with 11-12TF late 2019/ early 2020 is easily feasible for $400-$500."

do you realize a single gtx1080ti is 700 usd right? do you think you get a whole PLATFORM for 600-700usd? what capable the "BIG-leap" and true 4k@30fps/60fps(fighting,car games,net games)? with 24 or 32gb ram? because probably not be 16gb. that would be dream for everyone, but not gonna happen, you can achieve 4k with low fidelity graphics in games so there wont be a "big leap".

more about cloud gaming, THAT is the future I would bet
jade Raymond said this:
"Now if you think of the cloud, obviously you have constraints in terms of costs and numbers of servers and stuff, but in terms of what you could do, you could decide to simulate the real world and render everything with real physics, you could. You could forget about a hundred AI characters and have thousands, or forget about a hundred players in a map and have thousands or even millions. I think the first people to really take a bet and do something different there are going to have a huge hit and I think we're going to start to see things that we just never thought would be possible"

Don't get me wrong, I really want that too, but this? this is a joke...everyone is wait for the big-one, the "big leap" because of ryzen cpu, I bet when ps5 is gonna be official reveal everyone is gonna be disappointed by ps5 hardware, the hype train is gonna be wreck fast.
 
borzas2010 said:
"Where are you coming up with this $1000 price tag? That's ludicrous. Ryzen console with 11-12TF late 2019/ early 2020 is easily feasible for $400-$500."

do you realize a single gtx1080ti is 700 usd right? do you think you get a whole PLATFORM for 600-700usd? what capable the "BIG-leap" and true 4k@30fps/60fps(fighting,car games,net games)? with 24 or 32gb ram? because probably not be 16gb. that would be dream for everyone, but not gonna happen, you can achieve 4k with low fidelity graphics in games so there wont be a "big leap".

more about cloud gaming, THAT is the future I would bet
jade Raymond said this:
"Now if you think of the cloud, obviously you have constraints in terms of costs and numbers of servers and stuff, but in terms of what you could do, you could decide to simulate the real world and render everything with real physics, you could. You could forget about a hundred AI characters and have thousands, or forget about a hundred players in a map and have thousands or even millions. I think the first people to really take a bet and do something different there are going to have a huge hit and I think we're going to start to see things that we just never thought would be possible"

Don't get me wrong, I really want that too, but this? this is a joke...everyone is wait for the big-one, the "big leap" because of ryzen cpu, I bet when ps5 is gonna be official reveal everyone is gonna be disappointed by ps5 hardware, the hype train is gonna be wreck fast.
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Not to be a dick dude, but you don't seem to very knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff.

1) Why are you bringing up an Nvidia card, which will be 2-3 gens old by 2020 in pc terms & manufacturing terms? Matter of fact, we're talking AMD here, even a Vega 56 @ 400 consumer MSRP produces 13.7 teraflops & that was released nearly a year ago. AMD will no doubt be making a NEWER custom-derived chip which we're more than positive will implement some sort of NAVI instructions on die-strunk Vega or be Navi itself considering AMD's road map. I hope I don't need to spell out what that means? Let me put this in layman terms for you.....it's going to be even cheaper to produce while also providing better performance at an extremely reasonable cost.
2) Do you really think Sony or MS pays even close to the the amount the consumer MSRP? Lol
3. I feel like I'm not getting through to you. Once again, One X already produces true 4K/30 games at 6.2 Tera Flops. It won't be an issue in 2019/2020 with yet another GPU upgrade/CPU upgrade
4) Cloud based gaming is LOL worthy, MS found out the hard way.....which is why they don't bring it up anymore.
5) The One X already has 12GB, and you think the PS5 wouldn't even have 16gb? That's just.....yeah, not going to comment.


Going by your past couple of notes, you think it will be 8TF with 12GB of ram (1.8TF faster than One X, with same amount of ram). You've got to be some sort of troll....
 
The specs are the most interesting thing, but I hope they don't forget the small stuff.

Bluetooth is awful for controllers and I can make my audio break up by crossing my legs. Hopefully DS5 moves to 5GHz Wifi Direct for higher bitrate, for those worst case scenarios. And of course all the DS4 build quality issues, I just paid 80 CAD for one and a controller aught to be pretty golden for that. Sharp edges, loose tolerances, etc.

The ARM subsystem in the PS4 was innovative, but a bit underpowered allegedly for what they wanted it for, such that it has to wake up the APU for background downloads, turning on the fan and making idle power higher than it should be. It also is the limit to screenshot and video quality speed and size. It's ALSO the limit to why faster SSDs speed things up, but notas much as they should, and SATA 3 appeared to make no difference in the Pro.



Re: The above, Afaik 500% IPC improvement over Jaguar is waaaaaay optimistic, I think you're including clock speed gains which Instructions per Clock should not. It's more like 300%.

300% IPC improvement, double the clocks, and then SMT, we'd be doing pretty well.
 
octiny said:
1) There will be a 400-500% IPC increase over jaguar cores with Zen 2 cores at same speed, possibly more with a faster clock speed. So yes, AI/Physics will get a huge boost.
2) Native 4K gaming is already a thing on X with the majority of games at only 6.2TF. So 11TF+ will no doubt deliver 4K games with ease, on top of the massively upgraded CPU.
3) Developers will use how many cores necessary to meet their criteria, this is console, not PC, so if it has 8 cores, it will use all 8 cores (if needed) as it's being developed with 1 system spec in mind as the baseline. Even on the PC side of things, more & more games are taking advantage of more than 4 cores. Especially when it comes to minimum frame rate percentiles.
4) Titan Z is a dual-gpu card released years ago & if you mean Titan V, well that card is 15TF & the PS5 will not be 8TF....expect anywhere between 11-12tf realistically.
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Quick comparison, Jaguar @ 1.6GHz vs Ryzen + at 3.7, the core counts don't matter because I'm looking at per core. It's hard to compare because of boost, but going off base which is a best case for the math for Ryzen, as its boosts are higher and faster than Jaguar.

3.7/1.6 = 2.3x the base clock speed
5100/2.3 = 2200 nullifying the clock difference

2200/900= 2.46x the instructions per clock

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/8022545?baseline=7647065

Add an SMT thread and it probably does between 2.5x-3.5x the instructions per clock, an SMT thread should add 30% at most, not 200% unless something was very messy about your data structure.... 500% seemed out there instinctively.

If it runs at 3.2Ghz we're at least at 5x-7 faster in total with more if it clocks higher, but not per clock. If it's best case 3.5x*3.7Ghz or something, golden, I'm all for more power, but my point being that IPC estimate was highly optimistic.


(this also serves to remind me, holy hell, even using all 8 Jaguar cores the 8th generation is slow on CPU! Only 5K with perfect scaling from 4 to 8 cores, and they also keep one core reserved, there are tablets and phones that post better CPU scores...And good good golly look how fast 8 Ryzen+ cores are! )
 
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LordOfChaos said:
Re: The above, Afaik 500% IPC improvement over Jaguar is waaaaaay optimistic, I think you're including clock speed gains which Instructions per Clock should not. It's more like 300%.

300% IPC improvement, double the clocks, and then SMT, we'd be doing pretty well.
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My calculations in performance vs Jaguar cores are based off calculations on slightly downclocked Zen 1 vs Jaguar cores at 2.0ghz via Cinebench on it's single core threaded test. Without SMT, you're looking at roughly 3.6x- 3.8x in IPC with Jaguar cores pegging around 38 in Cinebench with Zen 1 around 140. Once SMT is accounted for, that's essentially where the lead increases further to hit the 4x-5x number. Zen 2 when it's finally released will no doubt add to that along with the improvements in latency that the newly released Zen+ introduced. The definition of IPC has been diluted the past couple of years due to architecture differences resulting in major core clock differences/smt/ht, so it's always hard to come to a conclusion based on that.

I agree with all the other things you mentioned though.
 
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And what I mean with the definition of IPC being deluded. Example being Jaguar cores were never intended to operate at high clock speeds vs Ryzen. So in theory due to architecture differences, it's hard to compare 1 to 1. Technically, Nvidia Pascal gpus have much worse IPC since it has to boost to a much higher mhz to extract the same amount performance per cuda core vs 4 year old Kepler but due to architecture differences, & since Kepler was never intended to operate at a high mhz or can even attempt to come close to say 1900mhz, it's not a simple apples to apples comparison with IPC anymore.
 
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borzas2010 said:
"Where are you coming up with this $1000 price tag? That's ludicrous. Ryzen console with 11-12TF late 2019/ early 2020 is easily feasible for $400-$500."

do you realize a single gtx1080ti is 700 usd right? do you think you get a whole PLATFORM for 600-700usd? what capable the "BIG-leap" and true 4k@30fps/60fps(fighting,car games,net games)? with 24 or 32gb ram? because probably not be 16gb. that would be dream for everyone, but not gonna happen, you can achieve 4k with low fidelity graphics in games so there wont be a "big leap".
Click to expand...

Please stop, you obviously do not know how technology works.
 
octiny said:
And what I mean with the definition of IPC being deluded. Example being Jaguar cores were never intended to operate at high clock speeds vs Ryzen. So in theory due to architecture differences, it's hard to compare 1 to 1. Technically, Nvidia Pascal gpus have much worse IPC since it has to boost to a much higher mhz to extract the same amount performance per cuda core vs 4 year old Kepler but due to architecture differences, & since Kepler was never intended to operate at a high mhz or can even attempt to come close to say 1900mhz, it's not a simple apples to apples comparison with IPC anymore.
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Either way in the end
1) Holy god 8 Jaguar cores are slow, and 1 is reserved
2) Holy god 8 Ryzen+ cores are fast, lol. To my point above I hope the ARM subsystem can entirely take on the OS so no reservation is needed.

With all 8 cores going (pushing down clocks to base) and perfect scaling from 4 to 8 Jaguar threads, that's 30,000 vs 5000. That TDP won't work in a console with the GPU alongside it, but 7nm promises to reduce power for the same performance 60%. Settling somewhat over 3GHz doesn't seem overly hopeful.

I think people are really underestimating how nice this boost will be and how CPU limited this generation was nearly from day one, sure some generations had much more dramatic shifts, but it's [year of date] and magnitude gains are hard to come by.
 
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LordOfChaos said:
Either way in the end
1) Holy god 8 Jaguar cores are slow, and 1 is reserved
2) Holy god 8 Ryzen+ cores are fast, lol. To my point above I hope the ARM subsystem can entirely take on the OS so no reservation is needed.

With all 8 cores going (pushing down clocks to base) and perfect scaling from 4 to 8 Jaguar threads, that's 30,000 vs 5000. That TDP won't work in a console with the GPU alongside it, but 7nm promises to reduce power for the same performance 60%. Settling somewhat over 3GHz doesn't seem overly hopeful.

I think people are really underestimating how nice this boost will be and how CPU limited this generation was nearly from day one, sure some generations had much more dramatic shifts, but it's [year of date] and magnitude gains are hard to come by.
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Agreed. I for one am more excited for the CPU side of things then GPU. Plus it'll give developers who want to provide a 60FPS mode for their game a much easier target to hit.

On a side note, Jaguar cores in the consoles consume about 23w under most workloads, One X probably slightly more due to bump in voltage/clock speed. Ryzen 2200G...with just the CPU cores w/ full 100% load @ 3.5GHZ on all cores consumes around 34 watts, so no doubt they'll get that down a bit with Zen 2. Things are looking good!

95392.png
 
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2200G & Ryzen 1400 are 4 core 8 thread. With the 1400 being 3.2ghz on all cores versus 3.5ghz in that chart. So I could imagine Zen 2 with 8c/16t could be anywhere between 3.2-3.4ghz on low-voltage binned Zen 2 chips pushing about 35 watts @ full load on the package versus Jaguar cores....possibly higher turbo boosts when not all cores are active. This is all speculative of course hehe.
 
LordOfChaos said:
Either way in the end
1) Holy god 8 Jaguar cores are slow, and 1 is reserved
2) Holy god 8 Ryzen+ cores are fast, lol. To my point above I hope the ARM subsystem can entirely take on the OS so no reservation is needed.

With all 8 cores going (pushing down clocks to base) and perfect scaling from 4 to 8 Jaguar threads, that's 30,000 vs 5000. That TDP won't work in a console with the GPU alongside it, but 7nm promises to reduce power for the same performance 60%. Settling somewhat over 3GHz doesn't seem overly hopeful.

I think people are really underestimating how nice this boost will be and how CPU limited this generation was nearly from day one, sure some generations had much more dramatic shifts, but it's [year of date] and magnitude gains are hard to come by.
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Thank you! I cannot cannot cannot emphasize how garbage CPU compute was this gen. As I said in another post, the supposed speed gains you would get from things such as OoOE were already mitigated enough with branch prediction and hints. There was a vast over estimate of how threaded game code needed to be and how important OoOE execution was for gaming. Game environments are really mostly simulations to which you need raw calculation performance. It's why I believe in real world in game performance Xenon and Cell actually best Jaguar especially when they were coding within the limitations of the systems.

When I think about Jaguar coupled with the 4GB of RAM original planned I can only make one conclusion. They overcompensated and hyper focused on graphical performance. They went for high bandwidth RAM for visual fidelity to the detriment of basically the entire rest of the system.
 
New rumour time-

The Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company has started high volume production of chips using the 7nm process technology.
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The fact that these chips are now being created in 'high volume' suggests that they've got big buyer ready to snap them up!
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There's further clues that these are the chips being used for PS5. In a financial conference call, President of TMCS C. C. Wei mentions "gaming"
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This may well be AMD's next generation of graphics chips called Navi, and it's rumoured that the PS4 CPU will be powered by AMD's Zen 2.
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https://www.psu.com/news/ps5-progress-may-be-boosted-with-top-news-from-chip-manufacturer/
 
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bitbydeath said:
New rumour time-









https://www.psu.com/news/ps5-progress-may-be-boosted-with-top-news-from-chip-manufacturer/
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Not a new rumor just PSU's take on the Anandtech article I posted in the PS4-PS5 CPU thread a couple of days ago.

Their take I disagree with. No way production PS5 chips are being made yet even if a late 2019 launch. The first wave of chips will be mobile/smaller/high profit chips and then in ~ 1 year from now the new 7nm process will be
cheaper and more mature right in time for the start of PS5 production ramp up.

If late 2019 is the target launch date I think right now a few hundred dev kits have been made for first/second party teams with launch/launch window games and late this year many more kits for third parties.

Just look at the history of dev kits of PS4 and what Cerny has stated in interviews and talks about making PS4. All the info is there IMO......
 
Does anyone know what this 'machine learning' GPU is and what it will do in a consumer PC? What consumer market is it aimed at as it seems to be a PCI-E desktop GPU?
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Does anyone know what this 'machine learning' GPU is and what it will do in a consumer PC? What consumer market is it aimed at as it seems to be a PCI-E desktop GPU?
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Training neural nets against each other, relatively affordably. "Consumer" is a bit of an understatement, but these are really enabling people in research to work on neural nets without leaning on much more expensive hardware.

See how Jen-Hsun pitched the Titan V to a group of academics, rather than gamers, even joking about selling the most expensive GPU "to the group of the poorest people", lol. They know it's a much more appealing value prospect as a baby Tesla taking NN training from weeks to days or less, than as a gaming chip.



Volta has dedicated Tensor cores for deep learning, and Instinct has Tensorflow

https://techreport.com/review/31093/amd-opens-up-machine-learning-with-radeon-instinct

It's the entire pitch of DGX station (I wannntt eeeet)

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/dgx-1/



These will all sell well. Neural net training is going to be massive and any company serious about NNs won't want to waste time vs competitors training in weeks and months rather than days and hours. The faster you train, the more you can.
 
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bitbydeath said:
New rumour time-

https://www.psu.com/news/ps5-progress-may-be-boosted-with-top-news-from-chip-manufacturer/
Click to expand...


I think they're running nearly entirely on assumptions there, though the 7nm process mentioning 'gaming' right beside GPUs is certainly an eyebrow raiser.

They're also assuming an APU, a lot of people are, and could be right, there was also a rumor that it would revert to a dedicated GPU and CPU though. This could make sense at the present time the more I think about it. You can have unified memory without an APU, which was the biggest appeal for developers. 7nm will have lower yields on bigger chips at the start. Two chips would both allow a larger total area for transistors, and a higher TDP by being able to cool two chips rather than one concentrated heat point.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Does anyone know what this 'machine learning' GPU is and what it will do in a consumer PC? What consumer market is it aimed at as it seems to be a PCI-E desktop GPU?
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It's the GPU's AMD sells to gamers (Radeon Rx) but optimized for machine learning.
Here is a Dutch version of the same article I linked earlier. https://tweakers.net/nieuws/137909/...t-accelerator-met-7nm-gpu-werkend-in-lab.html
The takeaway from this is that the 7nm GPU might in fact be Navi, would be interesting if Tweak town is right.
Because they made a claim last year about hearing at something that PS5 might have a dedicated GPU.
Then there are other claims recently on this site that Navi might be another compact mid tier GPU like RX480 was.

The point I'm making is that TSMC is on schedule with 7nm and they already bought the machines needed for EUV from ASML (Dutch company).
So when they say that they'll start production of 7nm+/EUV in 2019 I'm inclined to believe them.
There is a 17% area space saving from 7nm to 7nm EUV, a dedicated GPU might not seem crazy if Navi is indeed another RX480.

Interesting...
 
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LordOfChaos said:
I think they're running nearly entirely on assumptions there, though the 7nm process mentioning 'gaming' right beside GPUs is certainly an eyebrow raiser.

They're also assuming an APU, a lot of people are, and could be right, there was also a rumor that it would revert to a dedicated GPU and CPU though. This could make sense at the present time the more I think about it. You can have unified memory without an APU, which was the biggest appeal for developers. 7nm will have lower yields on bigger chips at the start. Two chips would both allow a larger total area for transistors, and a higher TDP by being able to cool two chips rather than one concentrated heat point.
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Shin said:
It's the GPU's AMD sells to gamers (Radeon Rx) but optimized for machine learning.
Here is a Dutch version of the same article I linked earlier. https://tweakers.net/nieuws/137909/...t-accelerator-met-7nm-gpu-werkend-in-lab.html
The takeaway from this is that the 7nm GPU might in fact be Navi, would be interesting if Tweak town is right.
Because they made a claim last year about hearing at something that PS5 might have a dedicated GPU.
Then there are other claims recently on this site that Navi might be another compact mid tier GPU like RX480 was.

The point I'm making is that TSMC is on schedule with 7nm and they already bought the machines needed for EUV from ASML (Dutch company).
So when they say that they'll start production of 7nm+/EUV in 2019 I'm inclined to believe them.
There is a 17% area space saving from 7nm to 7nm EUV, a dedicated GPU might not seem crazy if Navi is indeed another RX480.

Interesting...
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Having thought a bit about about, wouldn't it be feasible to have discreet and separate VRAM. Maybe 4GB of low-cost HBM.

On a side note combining a small stack of HBM with a die stacked APU/GPU would make a lot of sense.
 
i am totally out of the loop on this conundrum, BUT what's the big deal about these potential PS5 specs? How does this even compare to the base ps4? I have a base PS4, and am totally underwhelmed with every little thing it does compared to the PS3. i even believe devs have not even tapped into a majority of space the ps4 can handle on the games. anyone actually care to explain to me ELI5 rather than point a finger at a previous post in the 35 pages of posts?

Thank you~!
 
Dubloon7 said:
i am totally out of the loop on this conundrum, BUT what's the big deal about these potential PS5 specs? How does this even compare to the base ps4? I have a base PS4, and am totally underwhelmed with every little thing it does compared to the PS3. i even believe devs have not even tapped into a majority of space the ps4 can handle on the games. anyone actually care to explain to me ELI5 rather than point a finger at a previous post in the 35 pages of posts?

Thank you~!
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How can you be underwhelmed by the PS4 when comparing it to the PS3?
 
Dubloon7 said:
i am totally out of the loop on this conundrum, BUT what's the big deal about these potential PS5 specs? How does this even compare to the base ps4? I have a base PS4, and am totally underwhelmed with every little thing it does compared to the PS3. i even believe devs have not even tapped into a majority of space the ps4 can handle on the games. anyone actually care to explain to me ELI5 rather than point a finger at a previous post in the 35 pages of posts?

Thank you~!
Click to expand...

Can't agree there, even if I don't even look at the top lookers like God of War 4, going back to the 7th generation looks pretty ugly to me nowadays. Blocky often sub 720p resolutions by the end of the generation, muddy textures, poor filtering, etc etc. The PS3 in particular had framerate issues in a lot of titles too.

If the 7-8G jump underwhelms you, I guess this might too, or maybe it'll be better because advancements in graphics don't seem to impress you but this will also be a major leap in CPU performance that should allow more dynamic worlds or whatever devs choose to do with it.
 
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THE:MILKMAN said:
Not a new rumor just PSU's take on the Anandtech article I posted in the PS4-PS5 CPU thread a couple of days ago.

Their take I disagree with. No way production PS5 chips are being made yet even if a late 2019 launch. The first wave of chips will be mobile/smaller/high profit chips and then in ~ 1 year from now the new 7nm process will be
cheaper and more mature right in time for the start of PS5 production ramp up.

If late 2019 is the target launch date I think right now a few hundred dev kits have been made for first/second party teams with launch/launch window games and late this year many more kits for third parties.

Just look at the history of dev kits of PS4 and what Cerny has stated in interviews and talks about making PS4. All the info is there IMO......
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PS4 Dev kits went out to developers 15-18 months before PS4 launch. The initial ones that went out in July 2012 were still PC based. If these consoles are even more PC based than last time the dev kit window could be even smaller.
 
Even if they can already make the APU in 7nm, they still need to wait for GDDR6 to enter mass production, no? Can a customized GDDR5 work?
 
Dubloon7 said:
i am totally out of the loop on this conundrum, BUT what's the big deal about these potential PS5 specs? How does this even compare to the base ps4? I have a base PS4, and am totally underwhelmed with every little thing it does compared to the PS3. i even believe devs have not even tapped into a majority of space the ps4 can handle on the games. anyone actually care to explain to me ELI5 rather than point a finger at a previous post in the 35 pages of posts?

Thank you~!
Click to expand...

The PS5 will deliver around 8x the performance of the base PS4. Expect 4k60 (sometimes checkerboard, sometimes native) in 90% of the games. The huge increase in CPU power might also enable some more elaborate simulation, especially in open world games.
 
Bernd Lauert said:
Expect 4k60 in 90% of the games.
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Hate to burst your bubble, but consoles will always push towards 30FPS unless the developer feels 60FPS is required for that particular game. Some might offer performance mode alternatives, but 4K60 in 90% of games on PS5 is definitely a pipe dream.
 
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I keep seeing 60 FPS, get real people, The PS5 is gonna be a machine similar to the technologies that's used today for games, checkerboard rendering and dynamic resolution scaling, just with more cloth/foliage/explosion physics and particle simulation.
 
If both 7nm and memory are in mass production, then a 2019 release date might be viable. I would prefer 2020, the price would be lower (and i would have more $$$ available for it!).
 
They would be better off to grab 7nm with EUV, there's much to benefit from it and could do a mid 2020/late 2020 launch.
Unless MS spoils their party and don't want to jump in late by launching earlier, either that or both launches sometime in 2020.
 
Bernd Lauert said:
The PS5 will deliver around 8x the performance of the base PS4. Expect 4k60 (sometimes checkerboard, sometimes native) in 90% of the games. The huge increase in CPU power might also enable some more elaborate simulation, especially in open world games.
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There will be no one "60fps in the 90% of the games (pipe dream actually!), 30 fps will be still the most used frame rate on ps5 because devs will prefer graphics vs frame rate. Soon or later people will accept this. ;)
 
Imtjnotu said:
Intel missed its 10nm window and won't start till next year....

I hope AMD and tmsc can get down to 7nm with out issues
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Never thought I'd see the day we're about at convergence with Intel nodes. Gravity is 9.807 m/s², F=ma, and Intel fab nodes are at least 18 months ahead of the universe, that's always been the laws growing up.

Going into 2020+ it's just going to be increasingly hard to shake off competitors as everyone faces the same hurdles with silicon, unless Intels R&D gets them a breakthrough to another material before anyone else. It'll also be hard to shake off a convergent evolution with Ryzens architecture, large single threaded gains are hard.
 
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luca_29_bg said:
There will be no one "60fps in the 90% of the games (pipe dream actually!), 30 fps will be still the most used frame rate on ps5 because devs will prefer graphics vs frame rate. Soon or later people will accept this. ;)
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I remember when the PS2 specs came out (6.4 GFLOPs!!!) and thinking to myself that all future games would be 60 FPS with that much power.
 
shark sandwich said:
I remember when the PS2 specs came out (6.4 GFLOPs!!!) and thinking to myself that all future games would be 60 FPS with that much power.
Click to expand...

Yeah some people truly don't understand that framerate is a design choice and not a limited hardware issue.
 
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