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[Ke0]

So I take it every other country on earth is a racial paradise?
That a white person in Africa or China wouldn't be seen or as treated as the other? How many movies are coming out of Asia or Africa that mandate they have whites in them, and are not depicted in a stereotypical role (i.e any movie that takes place after colonialism or not a war movie).

Ever notice how frequently and quickly you deflect with invoking random countries? Not sure what Africa (Africa is a continent mate not a country...) or China have to do with America.

No it doesn't. It just fights racism with more racism.
Real way to fix minorities in companies and higher education is EDUCATION. Meaning more school funding and better education.

But aren't white American women the biggest benefactors of Affirmative Action in your country?

Better education doesn't seem like it's going to happen in your country with that Betty Devos lady in charge of it all. Honestly I feel like secretly America hates children lol.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think you are missing the point here.
In many places around the world, for instance, Eastern Europe, former USSR, "whiteness" is meaningless.
Black population is less than a fraction of a single percent, doesn't have "slavery" roots (most are offsprings of known communists/africans who came to USSR to study, etc).
An American talking to post-USSR white person about "white privilege" can get comical, when you would, say, talk to people of Kyrgyzstan, who certainly have it worse on most accounts than black Americans.

There actually ARE minorities in Europe and beyond, but they are ethnic, not racial. USA is less than 5% of the world population, mind you, EU alone is bigger.

And regarding hiring practices, I had this discussion before showergate on this very forum: HRs in large companies actively look for minorities (and in certain fields, women). That's not where blacks are disadvantaged, it happened much earlier. And I think it is extremely important to realize that, since it's only at earlier stages (education!!!!) where things can be fixed. When only 2% of graduates in a given field are of certain ethnicity, HR cannot do magic and turn that into 16% hires. Google recently backpedaled on diversity front, aiming to merely match diversity of the "available pool of candidates".

No, I'm not missing the point. I know exactly what you and others are trying to do by mentioning Eastern European countries and other places that look nearly homogeneous in terms of skin color. I can only imagine that your motivation is to talk about why it's seemingly "not fair" for America to be held to different standards, because deep down you think America is by default a white nation and should be kept that way through policy.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Honestly I feel like secretly America hates children lol.

They only love the potentially aborted ones. Once you're out of the womb they give two shits.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Ever notice how frequently and quickly you deflect with invoking random countries? Not sure what Africa (Africa is a continent mate not a country...) or China have to do with America.

It's probably not worth engaging with him. The dude is clearly doing everything he can to avoid recognizing that there might be an issue.

 

[JordanN]

Yeah, "nobody". You don't actually believe it. Beside, racists have no problem with "some of the good ones".

How people saw Space Jam in the 90s
"Oh cool. It's Michael Jordan and Bugs Bunny teaming up to beat some aliens in basketball. Can't wait!"

How people would see Space Jam today.
"You see, Michael Jordan is teaming up with bugs bunny. Who is actually a symbol of white supremacy and the continued oppression of black people. And they're up against aliens who are a metaphor for Donald Trump and his collusion with the Russians. And the basketball represents the racist American police who are stopping black people from going to space."

Isn't it the other way around? People get mad, send death threads and accuse the writers of "forcing diversity" every time a major character is portrayed by a minority, even if that character was originally an orange alien?

It's both. People raging for diversity and others are reacting to it.

Oh, so now it's about sales. Excellent job moving the goal post. I don't think Dragon's Crow game sold less because of the kotaku's stupid article. If anything, it sold more.

I meant GTA: San Andreas sold in spite of there being a black protagonist. Dragon's Crown sold like how a niche game always sold. The difference is that nobody would have cared or written articles about it had it came out during the PS2 days.

But the use of "Sexism" "racism" is trying to shut these games down. For example, Sony's Playstation President admitted that the cultural climate has changed that makes localizing certain games in the U.S difficult.

I must have imagine all these people who told me they are not going to buy TloU S2 because it panders to "SJW garbage" and flooded multiple internet boards for days. But hey, liberals are the one easily triggered!

See above. It's people reacting to what they see as agenda's being pushed.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Considering we're probably getting a Space Jam 2 with LeBron James, we'll probably have a chance very soon to call out your bullshit prediction.

 

[JordanN]

Ever notice how frequently and quickly you deflect with invoking random countries? Not sure what Africa (Africa is a continent mate not a country...) or China have to do with America.

Because it's the truth dawg.
I pointed out before, it's hilarious America is called racist, and yet it's the only country that sees year after year influx of non-white immigration by the thousands. It's fair to bring up other countries since apparently, no one ever wants to actually live in them.

 

[llien]

I can only imagine that your motivation...

Why do you need to talk about my "motivation" to begin with???

I'd rather see you address my argument instead of trying to read between the lines.

USSR is not "Easter Europe", minority in Russia, working on shitty job getting shitty salaries, are people from Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, all white.

I've missed your comment on HR hiring practices.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The United States is absolutely not the only country that sees thousands of non-white immigrants each year.

Just look the language you use: "year after year," "influx." Those words reveal your animosity towards of non-whites, not to mention your apparent belief that the United States is and should be a white country.

 

[llien]

I pointed out before, it's hilarious America is called racist, and yet it's the only country that sees year after year influx of non-white immigration by the thousands

How does it prove there is no racism? It could easily be that people have problems worse than US racism in their homeland.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why do you need to talk about my "motivation" to begin with???

I'd rather see you address my argument instead of trying to read between the lines.

USSR is not "Easter Europe", minority in Russia, working on shitty job getting shitty salaries, are people from Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, all white.

I've missed your comment on HR hiring practices.

Your argument boils down to "white privilege does not exist in some countries so it must not exist anywhere and we should therefore not talk about it" which is some hot nonsense not even worth addressing, really.

The requirement that white privilege be applicable on a global scale is only brought up by people who do not want to talk about it or want to deny its existence.

 

[JordanN]

How does it prove there is no racism? It could easily be that people have problems worse than US racism in their homeland.

And what does that say that most countries are worse that they pack their bags and head straight to the U.S?
Why is no one going to China or Mexico instead? Could it be that America's "racism" and constant touts of "oppression" is overblown, when the very countries people are leaving treated them much worse?

 

[llien]

apparent belief that the United States is and should be a white country.

Your argument boils down to "white privilege does not exist in some countries

Most countries.

...so it must not exist anywhere...

No, I didn't say or imply that, but just think about what "The rest of the world" is, if US is less than 5% of the world population.

I'm still waiting for your take in US HR hiring practices in regards to minorities.

...not to mention your apparent belief that the United States is and should be a white country.

Could you elaborate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States

 

[llien]

And what does that say that most countries are worse that they pack their bags and head straight to the U.S?
Why is no one going to China or Mexico instead?

For reasons that are apparent, I thought.
For the same reasons Tajiks, who are treated like much lesser humans in Russia, still travel to Russia.
Because when you struggle to feed your family or are worried about its safety it is worse, than casual racism.

 

[Shiki_]

And what does that say that most countries are worse that they pack their bags and head straight to the U.S?
Why is no one going to China or Mexico instead? Could it be that America's "racism" and constant touts of "oppression" is overblown, when the very countries people are leaving treated them much worse?

https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/mexico/crece-580-migracion-a-mexico-1534027.html

 

[JordanN]

For reasons that are apparent, I thought.
For the same reasons Tajiks, who are treated like much lesser humans in Russia, still travel to Russia.
Because when you struggle to feed your family or are worried about its safety it is worse, than casual racism.

But how could you feed your family if all the jobs are being denied to you? Who or what is offering you the safety to build a life in America that didn't exist before in the homelands they fled from?
It would require a society that is highly tolerant of people who don't look like them to make America not as racist as thought it was.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Could you elaborate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States

Nice one. Weren't you just in here talking about how "whiteness" is meaningless in majority white countries where it's all about the different ethnic groups within the white race?

And yet here you are now recognizing that "white" is the majority in the U.S. and using a census to reinforce your point (and apparent belief that you would like it to stay that way).

So whiteness doesn't matter abroad, but it matters in the U.S. We've now established that you hold those two beliefs simultaneously. Why are you comparing the situation in the U.S. with arbitrary countries outside of the U.S. again?

 

[JordanN]

https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/mexico/crece-580-migracion-a-mexico-1534027.html

I can't read spanish so I'm assuming that article is about Mexico?
If it is, then how about I call Mexico traitors because they were the ones who didn't stop the central American caravan from trespassing into America.

Once again, it's people trying to settle in America, and Mexico was helping them with that.

 

[DasPenguin]

White privilege is a cute way to pretend you aren't responsible for your own failures.

It's not about race, but wealth. People who live in bad neighbourhoods and go to terrible schools are starting way behind. Regardless of their race. That's why fixing the school system in America should be the number one objective of the country, if equality mattered at all. If you can be a mediocre student and get a great education through wealth and connections, someone messed up big time. That's how you end up with mediocre (or bad) leadership, and a ton of people with bad education who are dumb and easy to fool.

 

[llien]

But how could you feed your family if all the jobs are being denied to you?

But nobody said "all jobs" are being denied, why straw man.

It would require a society that is highly tolerant of people who don't look like them to make America not as racist as thought it was.

Uh, no, apparently Russia is by no metric a tolerant society, yet it's the country lots of people from troubled countries migrate to.

The "you come here, so here is no racism" is obviously flawed, let me rephrase it: racism doesn't need to be worse than risk of being murdered, bombed or having no income, for it to be called racism. Many Russians are, in fact, pretty racist.

And yet here you are now recognizing that "white" is the majority in the U.S. and using a census to reinforce your point (and apparent belief that you would like it to stay that way).

I'm not stating anything, merely trying to understand what you were saying.

So whiteness doesn't matter abroad, but it matters in the U.S.

Sorry, whoareyoutalkingto.gif

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's not about race, but wealth. People who live in bad neighbourhoods and go to terrible schools are starting way behind. Regardless of their race. That's why fixing the school system in America should be the number one objective of the country, if equality mattered at all. If you can be a mediocre student and get a great education through wealth and connections, someone messed up big time. That's how you end up with mediocre (or bad) leadership, and a ton of people with bad education who are dumb and easy to fool.

Yes. And guess which race has been historically discriminated against when it comes to access to financial services that allow you to build wealth over generations.

 

[Bryank75]

The far-left position on blacks, Hispanics and women.....

We must take it easy on them and give them all the advantages and head-starts we can, cause the poor things can't do it on their own.

Is actually hilariously condascending. Worse than anything the right has ever said.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Sorry, whoareyoutalkingto.gif

Talkin' to the person who jumped at the chance to whatabout some countries that have nothing to do with the U.S.

 

[JordanN]

It's not about race, but wealth. People who live in bad neighbourhoods and go to terrible schools are starting way behind. Regardless of their race. That's why fixing the school system in America should be the number one objective of the country, if equality mattered at all. If you can be a mediocre student and get a great education through wealth and connections, someone messed up big time. That's how you end up with mediocre (or bad) leadership, and a ton of people with bad education who are dumb and easy to fool.

Is there an actual correlation between "terrible schools" and "success"? Do whites who go to these schools also end up missing out on life?

And where did these "bad neighborhoods" come from?

 

[JordanN]

Yes. And guess which race has been historically discriminated against when it comes to access to financial services that allow you to build wealth over generations.

Can you show me this discrimination against financial services? And why it's responsible for building wealth?
Does a black person who makes $10,000 lose all that money because... there was a lack of a financial service?

 

[llien]

Talkin' to the person who jumped at the chance to whatabout some countries that have nothing to do with the U.S.

A guy from Finland tried to reason and told you about how exactly conversations of meaningless "whiteness privilege" of Finnish guy living in Finland goes.
You just chose to ignore it.
Then I came, stating the same, you don't want to see it.

Then a statement about HRs of large US companies actively looking for minority candidates were made and re-asked 2 times, you didn't bother answering.

When facts do not fit into your views, it's time to change views, not deny that facts exist.
Black Americans are disadvantaged, but it doesn't happen at the hiring.
What happened centuries ago doesn't matter either.

Coming from a poor family and/or bad neighbourhood DOES punish harshly, and it mostly applies to black Americans. With the way your education system works (and with the way boys in single mother families act) it nearly guarantees that people stay poor.

 

[Bryank75]

Banks are terrible to everyone..... that's not news to anyone who's dealt with one.

Ie

http://www.thejournal.ie/tracker-mortgage-scandal-11-3977443-Apr2018/

When the Irish banks illegally charged more for mortgages to thousands of people during a recession....resulting in many repossessions that were not justified or legal.

 

[llien]

And where did these "bad neighborhoods" come from?

People tend to avoid places with high crime rate.
Which, in turn, makes them quite cheap to rent.
Poor people are times more likely to commit crime,

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Banks are terrible to everyone..... that's not news to anyone who's dealt with one.

Ie

http://www.thejournal.ie/tracker-mortgage-scandal-11-3977443-Apr2018/

When the Irish banks illegally charged more for mortgages to thousands of people during a recession....resulting in many repossessions that were not justified or legal.

Just read this primer on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_discrimination

Banks can be terrible to everyone in your mind and simultaneously have been extremely terrible to blacks and other minorities.

 

[JordanN]

People tend to avoid places with high crime rate.
Which, in turn, makes them quite cheap to rent.
Poor people are times more likely to commit crime,

Well yes, but I want to know where exactly did these bad and violent neighborhoods come from?
Was America founded with bad neighborhoods in the beginning? How could people live in something without it being created first?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

A guy from Finland tried to reason and told you about how exactly conversations of meaningless "whiteness privilege" of Finnish guy living in Finland goes.
You just chose to ignore it.
Then I came, stating the same, you don't want to see it.

What does the perspective of a guy in Finland about Finland have to do with the United States? Why are you bringing this up?

Then a statement about HRs of large US companies actively looking for minority candidates were made and re-asked 2 times, you didn't bother answering.

I don't know what your argument is here. Do you think companies shouldn't be allowed to pursue a diversity in the employees they hire? You are going to have a hard time making the case that black people have an advantage over whites when it comes to hiring or getting ahead in corporate America if that's what you're trying to do.

 

[JordanN]

Just read this primer on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_discrimination

Banks can be terrible to everyone in your mind and simultaneously have been extremely terrible to blacks and other minorities.

So your argument why black people cannot generate wealth over generations, is because they are not given loans?
Loans require you to make money, since the expectation is you can eventually pay them off. If you don't, the bank doesn't make a profit (it's just giving away money).

Can you prove that banks are doing this for racial reasons? Also, why are loans considered important for passing down wealth? If anything, you DON'T want to be caught in a cycle of owing money in which you can't pay back.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well yes, but I want to know where exactly did these bad and violent neighborhoods come from?
Was America founded with bad neighborhoods in the beginning? How could people live in something without it being created first?

Now you're asking the right questions.

The answer is that they were created and sustained largely by official policy.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So your argument why black people cannot generate wealth over generations, is because they are not given loans?
Loans require you to make money, since the expectation is you can eventually pay them off. If you don't, the bank doesn't make a profit (it's just giving away money).

Can you prove that banks are doing this for racial reasons?

It's already been proven countless times. Just read some of the sources in the Wiki link I shared that barely scratches the surface.

If you're going to say they weren't given loans because they didn't have jobs... man you got another thing coming, but keep living in your racist-ass fantasy land in your head, I guess.

 

[Bryank75]

Just read this primer on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_discrimination

Banks can be terrible to everyone in your mind and simultaneously have been extremely terrible to blacks and other minorities.

Yes, I understand how this could look like discrimination but if you are building a risk model...for it to be accurate, you will need a lot of details to determine the correct risk value and protect the bank.

That's not discrimination really, just maths and protecting the bank from a potential disaster.

 

[JordanN]

Now you're asking the right questions.

The answer is that they were created and sustained largely by official policy.

What U.S policy mandated neighborhoods be full of violence?
And who created violent neighborhood since again, America was not founded with them.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What U.S policy mandated neighborhoods be full of violence?

Poverty leads to more crime. That's like a universal truth observed everywhere.

 

[off duty ninja]

I just realized that this whole discussion is focused on the wrong things all together. We should really be talking about if it is even appropriate to call it White Privilege to begin with. This seems a bit...problematic at best and is certainly not politically correct.

I propose we begin calling it Caucasian-American Privilege to better represent the appropriate sociopolitical group that we are discussing.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes, I understand how this could look like discrimination but if you are building a risk model...for it to be accurate, you will need a lot of details to determine the correct risk value and protect the bank.

That's not discrimination really, just maths and protecting the bank from a potential disaster.

Unbelievable. It's like you've read nothing on the subject and are completely unwilling to entertain the notion that any discrimination could be racially motivated despite an overwhelming amount of evidence that could be found in miliseconds should you just muster the willpower to search for it.

 

[JordanN]

Poverty leads to more crime. That's like a universal truth observed everywhere.

That's not a policy.
One more time, which U.S law mandates that neighborhoods must be violent? These neighborhoods did not exist when America was first founded.
Someone created them.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's not a policy.
One more time, which U.S law mandates that neighborhoods must be violent? These neighborhoods did not exist when America was first founded.

It's like you are incapable of understanding how one thing can lead to another and how certain issues are interrelated.

 

[JordanN]

It's like you are incapable of understanding how one thing can lead to another and how certain issues are interrelated.

Because we're talking about bad neighborhoods. What made these neighborhoods "bad" in the first place?
You're saying there is a U.S policy that mandates violence. What U.S law covers that?

 

[llien]

What does the perspective of a guy in Finland about Finland have to do with the United States?

Just HEAR us please. We are being pointed to have a privilege which we do not have.
I am, in fact a minority in Germany and sometimes (though, very rarely) I even feel it. Let me know, if you want to hear more details.

I don't know what your argument is here. Do you think companies shouldn't be allowed to pursue a diversity in the employees they hire?

It is the exact opposite of "people not getting hired, because they are black".
My argument is, hiring, racial bias (and let me get this straight: it is real, it is everywhere, and I, personally, don't think it is defeatable) is not a problem in mid+ sized US companies, because they are actively looking for "more diversity".
As for smaller ones... I don't know how big part of US they represent, to be honest.

What should be done about it, is a totally different discussion, in my opinion, it should be addressed, where it is broken most: education.

Just read this primer on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_discrimination

I went there to read it, and here is my summary:
1) It is about practices from "back in 1930"
2) There is a brief mention of "but some signs of it are there nowadays", I went to both links. The first report ignores crucial details such as existing loan depth, upfront payment. The second one is pay-walled.

Banks do treat poorer people as lesser beings, there is no arguing about that, but racial aspect of it is highly arguable, as, again, Asians, who, I'd speculate, would likely outdo whites here, being mostly cluttered in mid-class.

 

[llien]

Because we're talking about bad neighborhoods. What made these neighborhoods "bad" in the first place.

Ahem, do you think "poor neighbourhood with high crime rate" is a US thing???

 

[Bryank75]

Unbelievable. It's like you've read nothing on the subject and are completely unwilling to entertain the notion that any discrimination could be racially motivated despite an overwhelming amount of evidence that could be found in miliseconds should you just muster the willpower to search for it.

Well, I assume they award loans and mortgages based on the same criteria there as where I live.
It's based on many things, such as credit history, size of deposit compared to loan, how many years you decide on to pay it back, in addition it may use other profile data such as race, religion, location, extended family...... so on.

You might not have a great location or religion but you can then compensate with a larger deposit or better credit history to get you over the line.

I can see how it may seem flawed if being a poc, puts you at a disadvantage because they are overall more likely to default but the bank does have an obligation to protect itself from risk for the rest of its customers.

 

[JordanN]

Ahem, do you think "poor neighbourhood with high crime rate" is a US thing???

I never heard of a U.S policy that tells people to be violent.
A neighborhood doesn't start out bad. It's created. So who created it in the first place?

 

[Jmarshall]

I never heard of a U.S policy that tells people to be violent.
A neighborhood doesn't start out bad. It's created. So who created it in the first place?

Every single neighbourhood, village, town , city and country start out bad, they are made good by the rule of law.

 

[JordanN]

Every single neighbourhood, village, town , city and country start out bad, they are made good by the rule of law.

So you're saying America started out bad? All the bad neighborhoods existed since the beginning?
The ones that are good is because of law? What stopped the law from being used in the beginning of these neighborhoods?

 

[llien]

I never heard of a U.S policy that tells people to be violent.
A neighborhood doesn't start out bad. It's created. So who created it in the first place?

Poverty. Please spare me from the "who created poverty" question.

 

[Jmarshall]

So what does a bad neighborhood mean then? Without the government's blessing, it's automatically violent?
Why is that?

I suspect we somewhat agree, if we accept (just for the moment) my view of mankind and that Man is a brutish animal, then the question isn't why are some neighbourhoods bad, it is, why are some neighbourhoods good.

What vested interests or expression of power are occurring to keep behaviours in check, and why does the US state fail to apply them uniformly.