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[JordanN]

Poverty. Please spare me from the "who created poverty" question.

So help me understand this.
America was created as a poverty nation. America had a policy to be in poverty for some reason. That is why these neighborhoods are bad.
It's because America was always poor? No one rich or anything could do something to stop these neighborhoods from becoming bad and having high amounts of violence.
It was just the way America was founded?

 

[Jmarshall]

So help me understand this.
America was created as a poverty nation. America had a policy to be in poverty for some reason. That is why these neighborhoods are bad.
It's because America was always poor?

You are not asking a bad question, but it's terms need far more definition to unpick the issue you're trying to address.

The first being "poverty" even the poorest in the USA have more than 80% of the world population, what you're criticising isn't poverty, but a lack of equality.

 

[JordanN]

You are not asking a bad question, but it's terms need far more definition to unpick the issue you're trying to address.

The first being "poverty" even the poorest in the USA have more than 80% of the world population, what you're criticising isn't poverty, but a lack of equality.

How does lack of equality influence why bad neighborhoods have high murders?
If the idea is all of America started off in poverty because no city was ever good, shouldn't they all be violent?

How did we go from bad to good neighborhoods with the government not catching on to this?

 

[llien]

America was created as a poverty nation. America had a policy to be in poverty for some reason.

Ahaha, you poor imperialist, let my commie ass enlighten you on this.
Seriously.

Poverty is created by the way wealth is distributed in capitalist systems (in particular in those, with rightist governments)
(Nordic model showing a notable difference in Scandinavian countries)
Poor neighbourhood happen even in countries as rich and as leftist (lots of support for jobless, free education, universal healthcare) as Germany.

The gap between rich and poor has consistently risen in the last decades, by the way: Worldwide inequality has risen in nearly every region since 1980, study says

 

[BANGS]

because institutional racism...

...doesn't exist...

Fresh Prince of Bel-Air was all about black identity and was deeply political. Just because some of you only saw the jokes doesn't mean any of that stuff wasn't there. Many of the episodes that dealt with blatant racism in our society were deeply effective at educating a lot of people about topics they may not have been very aware of.

The very first episode had Uncle Phil schooling Will on how his "I'm so black and everybody racist" nonsense that we're seeing tons of today is pure bullshit... Same with Carlton being the voice of reason in the episode where they got pulled over. The show definitely dealt with real racial issues, but a main theme was about how so many people over react and are way too quick to shout "racisicm" when white people dare to treat black people the same way they treat themselves...

Amazing show IMO...

 

[JordanN]

Poor neighbourhood happen even in countries as rich and as leftist (lots of support for jobless, free education, universal healthcare) as Germany.

The gap between rich and poor has consistently risen in the last decades, by the way: Worldwide inequality has risen in nearly every region since 1980, study says

So we should blame the high murders in bad neighborhoods because they're not rich enough? That's why these bad neighborhoods exist is because they lack money?

What if I told you there are statistics that show the murder rate still persists, even after wealth is taken into consideration? What would be the explanation that these neighborhoods turned bad if it's not money?

Also, I still find it hard to believe that America was founded on bad neighborhoods and it's because of poverty/wealth inequality. At what point did the U.S government not undertake any action if all their cities were violent from wealth inequality?

 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I don't know why this thread is still busy. The OP was an obvious troll post. If you can't figure out that's a troll then ...wtf have you been doing on the internet this whole time?


The issue with white privilege is thus:

There's many, many advantages and disadvantages you are born into and then you make choices in your life which give you a leg up or a provide a hindrance to yourself. So you have traits, choices, and outcomes. Of the many traits, skin color isn't that strong a factor. At least not in comparison to how often white privileged is brought up. The balance between skin color as a trait's importance and the frequency of white privilege as a talking point reveals a racist mentality behind the topic.

 

[llien]

So we should blame the high murders in bad neighborhoods because they're not rich enough?

Murder rates are higher in "bad neighbourhoods" for obvious reasons.

What if I told you there are statistics that show the murder rate still persists, even after wealth is taken into consideration? What would be the explanation that these neighborhoods turned bad if it's not money?

Statistics are... complicated and easy to manipulate, misread, US left, feminists, do it non-stop, I wouldn't be surprised if "the other side" does it too, but let's look at the data we have and only after that get to conclusion, shall we? Please share the mentioned statistic.

I don't know why this thread is still busy. The OP was an obvious troll post. If you can't figure out that's a troll then ...wtf have you been doing on the internet this whole time?

We just feel like discussing white privilege topic in general, JP is irrelevant in this context.

 

[JordanN]

Murder rates are higher in "bad neighbourhoods" for obvious reasons.

But what is the obvious reason? I'm saying, it's silly to look at wealth distribution as the sole reason for why a neighborhood must be bad/full of violence. It implies that violent neighborhoods were at the root of America's founding.

Statistics are... complicated and easy to manipulate, misread, US left, feminists, do it non-stop, I wouldn't be surprised if "the other side" does it too, but let's look at the data we have and only after that get to conclusion, shall we? Please share the mentioned statistic.

How do you manipulate homicides? Is a dead body not a dead body?

And this is my data.

Sorry for the last one having "cheesy" font.

 

[Ke0]

Because it's the truth dawg.
I pointed out before, it's hilarious America is called racist, and yet it's the only country that sees year after year influx of non-white immigration by the thousands. It's fair to bring up other countries since apparently, no one ever wants to actually live in them.

Again Africa isn't a country mate lol

Also neither China nor any of the African countries have touted themselves as a "melting pot" and pushed the idea of people from all corners of the world coming to it to make it a better place. And no, America isn't the only place that sees an influx of non-white immigrants. America is never going to be an ethnostate. You really need to let it go man. You can always move to like Russia or something, or back to where your people originate from if it bothers you so much. Your post history is literally just you pining for America to be a white union, how to get rid of black-Americans (by asking them to move to Libya apparently lol, solid plan mate, real solid) and honestly...I pity you more than anything. Mostly because the country will never reflect the world you want, and you're only one voice with no power to change America to what you envision it. That's gotta be exhausting man.

 

[gioGAF]

Enjoyed the video, I think the topic had the opposite effect of what the opening poster intended. More Jordan Peterson is always good.

 

[BANGS]

But what is the obvious reason? I'm saying, it's silly to look at wealth distribution as the sole reason for why a neighborhood must be bad/full of violence. It implies that violent neighborhoods were at the root of America's founding.



How do you manipulate homicides? Is a dead body not a dead body?

And this is my data.

Sorry for the last one having "cheesy" font.

Snitches get stitches...

 

[JordanN]

Again Africa isn't a country lol

Also neither China nor any of the African countries have touted themselves as a "melting pot" and pushed the idea of people from all corners of the world coming to it to make it a better place.

Where did the idea of of an American melting pot come from? I don't think the founding fathers ever made mention of it.

And no, America isn't the only place that sees an influx of non-white immigrants.

It seems to be the only one that gets into the news. Why for example, is there an extreme pushback against setting up a border wall? Shouldn't Mexico be praising this decision if you believe there shouldn't be a mass influx of people into the U.S?

America is never going to be an ethnostate. You really need to let it go man. You can always move to like Russia or something, or back to where your people originate from if it bothers you so much. Your post history is literally just you pining for America to be a white union and honestly...I pity you more than anything. Mostly because the country will never reflect world you want, and you're only one voice with no power to change America to what you envision it. That's gotta be exhausting man.

America from its founding up to present has always been a majority white country. There is no proof to say it will continue that way if whites eventually become a minority.

 

[Sub_Level]

In terms of what factors determine you privilege/prosperity in 2018 in your average western country, id prolly rank it as

-Most Important-
Wealth
Support (family/friends/connections)
Health
Work Ethic
Intelligence
Athleticism
Sexual Orientation
Race
Gender
-Least Important-

 

[Ke0]

Where did the idea of of an American melting pot come from? I don't think the founding fathers ever made mention of it.

All of your Presidents and government officials from shit like 1900s to current day. It just seems you're regretting your predecessors decisions now that they're no longer a perceived benefit for you.

It seems to be the only one that gets into the news. Why for example, is there an extreme pushback against setting up a border wall? Shouldn't Mexico be praising this decision if you believe there shouldn't be a mass influx of people into the U.S?

I imagine Mexico would have been more onboard if you guys didn't paint them as rapists and murderers. I also imagine they'd be more onboard if your government wasn't the one who supplied cartels with guns and weaponry. All in all, I don't think Mexico is really feeling particularly torn up over you being upset at immigration.

America from its founding up to present has always been a majority white country. There is no proof to say it will continue that way if whites eventually become a minority.

Americans always tell me minorities are treated better than everyone else, Conservative media always tells me minorities are treated better/get handouts/are the real oppressors so shouldn't you be excited at the prospect of being a minority?

If everyone is equal, and everyone is treated the same and America is a meritocracy based society then becoming a minority shouldn't bother you much if at all.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

But what is the obvious reason? I'm saying, it's silly to look at wealth distribution as the sole reason for why a neighborhood must be bad/full of violence. It implies that violent neighborhoods were at the root of America's founding.



How do you manipulate homicides? Is a dead body not a dead body?

And this is my data.

Sorry for the last one having "cheesy" font.

Can you source either of these images? /pol seems to be the source for both. I looked for the 2006 Bureau of Justice report and I didn't see that chart. Your second image conveniently omits that Park-Windsor Hills is a neighborhood in Los Angeles and that Beattyville has a population of 1,200 opposed to the 4 million in LA.

 

[JordanN]

Can you source either of these images? /pol seems to be the source for both. I looked for the 2006 Bureau of Justice report and I didn't see that chart. Your second image conveniently omits that Park-Windsor Hills is a neighborhood in Los Angeles and that Beattyville has a population of 1,200 opposed to the 4 million in LA.

https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (page 3)

" Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and offenders. The victimization rate for blacks (27.8 per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000). The offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000) (table 1). "

Both confirm the homicide rate is higher in blacks, but the wealth distribution isn't there. Although someone could have done the math by cross-referencing it with other data.

 

[TheMikado]

But what is the obvious reason? I'm saying, it's silly to look at wealth distribution as the sole reason for why a neighborhood must be bad/full of violence. It implies that violent neighborhoods were at the root of America's founding.



How do you manipulate homicides? Is a dead body not a dead body?

And this is my data.

Sorry for the last one having "cheesy" font.

https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (page 3)

Both confirm the homicide rate is higher in blacks, but the wealth distribution isn't there. Although someone could have done the math by cross-referencing it with other data.

Unfortunately, I'm once again forced to shutdown your ramblings.

While poverty is a large factor. You also have population density.

The two biggest influences of crime being, population density and population poverty.

Combining the two statistics you logically find that individuals living in higher population density with higher poverty will have higher crime.

Just for context

Beattyville, KY
The population density was 599.6 people per square mile (231.5/km²). There were 561 housing units at an average density of 282.0 per square mile (108.8/km²).

Park-Windsor Hills

The 2010 United States Census reported that View Park−Windsor Hills had a population of 11,075. The population density was 6,012.6 people per square mile(2,321.5/km²).

You're comparing an area that has over 10x the population density in order to create narrative of race while ignoring all actual factual information. If you want to make it racial, be my guest.

But get for facts straight first.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (page 3)

" Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and offenders. The victimization rate for blacks (27.8 per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000). The offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000) (table 1). "

Both confirm the homicide rate is higher in blacks, but the wealth distribution isn't there. Although someone could have done the math by cross-referencing it with other data.

I don't think your chart means what you want it to mean. Here's the article your chart is from.

 

[JordanN]

You're comparing an area that has over 10x the population density in order to create narrative of race while ignoring all actual factual information. If you want to make it racial, be my guest.

But get for facts straight first.

I've looked up crime data for similar black majority areas and the results are still very similar (generally higher than whites). So I should be seeing examples that go against the grain, or do we accept that it's all poverty and population density's fault?

Hong Kong has a higher population density and lower GDP per capita than Bermuda, but it's still less violent.

 

[Papa]

JordanN, I can't do this with you. Your ability to comprehend what people are saying is either too low, or you are just going out of your way to be disingenuous, but it's tiring and hopeless either way.

I dunno, I found it pretty easy to understand his point. LBJ and Clinton did more to destroy black culture than anything else in recent history.

 

[macfoshizzle]

Opened up a can of worms

 

[Papa]

It was just your innocence, because institutional racism was just as strong if not stronger back then. It's just that not everyone had a smartphone and a social media account to shed light on every single thing that was going on in our society, so only stuff like the Rodney King riots really exploded and got attention.

White kids have black heroes to look up to today just the same.

Everything that's wrong in society is just signal-boosted to an extreme these days, so it looks like things are worse.

I agree with this

 

[Papa]

"Identity politics" have always been a thing.


Remember GTA Hot Coffee? Rule of Rose? Every game with religious themes? No, of course you don't. You clearly speak as someone very young who has no idea of what they are talking about.


*Flashback to GTA San Andreas release and people complaining that they had to play with a black character*

You can't be serious. And it was far harder for people to be racist when black people were less likely to get a spot or a voice. It's similar to how homophobes don't have a problem with gay people... as long they don't have to see them.. mention them... hear them... but apart of that, no problem!

But social media has not, and his point was that the combination of the two is toxic.

Also, I was in my late teens when San Andreas came out and literally no one I knew had a problem with the black lead. In fact, we thought it was awesome because we were teenage boys and loved anything gangster related. We didn't even think of race.

 

[TheMikado]

I've looked up crime data for similar black majority areas and the results are still very similar (generally higher than whites). So I should be seeing examples that go against the grain, or do we accept that it's all poverty and population density's fault?

Hong Kong has a higher population density and lower GDP per capita than Bermuda, but it's still less violent.

And these countries have lower population density and higher murder rates. IS the problem Europeans??? What should be done about this epidemic???

 

[JordanN]

And these countries have lower population density and higher murder rates. IS the problem Europeans??? What should be done about this epidemic???

What am I looking at? Only Russia stands out in that map?
And I would be interested in seeing a break down by ethnic group. I posted my FBI findings that black homicide rate is 8x higher than whites. So comparing the whole country when the U.S (as of right now) is less homogenous than Europe isn't really surprising.

 

[JimmyJones]

As usual, he completely misses the point and rambles for ages, never getting to the point.



Ironically, he doesn't realise that he would get very little support if he were not white, middle class and male.

Make sure you enable adblock!

Alfadawg got banned? Praise the lord!

 

[TheMikado]

What am I looking at? Only Russia stands out in that map?
And I would be interested in seeing a break down by ethnic group. I posted my FBI findings that black homicide rate is 8x higher than whites. So comparing the whole country when the U.S (as of right now) is less homogenous than Europe isn't really surprising.

Wait What???
Am I taking crazy pills???

We we discussing a two towns in US, which had not break-downs on homicide rates by race, but were somehow shown as evidence that race is the driving factor of violent crime because in a city that is predominantly one race we can make judgments and exclude other factors. When I then show other evidence.

YOU bring up two different countries, no context for racial breakdowns, nothing.
Instead of even addressing your desperate and poor attempt to steer the conversation on another tangent, I simply respond in kind.

Now suddenly you want ethnic breakdowns and other things you didn't even hold up for your own evidence.

Your hypocrisy is appalling.

 

[JordanN]

Wait What???
Am I taking crazy pills???

Evidently you are.
I've established socio-economic is not behind disproportionate crime.
When you can show me the least violent areas by race, then I'll be ready.

Edit: If you want to know the race of Bermudans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Bermuda#One_race

And Hong Kong is self explanatory. But if you still insist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hong_Kong#Ethnicity

 

[TheMikado]

Evidently you are.
I've established socio-economic is not behind disproportionate crime.
When you can show me the least violent areas by race, then I'll be ready.

But you didn't, you failed to show even the smallest amount of hypothesis testing.

You have to isolate the variable. You are making the claim that race is the factor. Thus for this to be true you would need:

Similar Economic situations
Similar Town/City Structure
Similar Countries
Similar Regions

Example: Two towns one black- one white.
Same state/region
Similar industry and similar size
Similar levels of education
Similar incomes
Similar population density

-Wildly differing statistics.

You didn't do this. You failed.

 

[JordanN]

But you didn't, you failed to show even the smallest amount of hypothesis testing.


Example: Two towns one black- one white.
Same state/region
Similar industry and similar size
Similar levels of education
Similar incomes
Similar population density

-Wildly differing statistics.

You didn't do this. You failed.

Oh please. If you need a bachelor's degree to not kill someone, then you've failed at life.
It's actually very funny why all this information has to be broken down into specifics, and not just look at patterns in groups.
I don't think level of income or education crossed my mind when I look at why say, Japan or Belgium is safe. Maybe they could be dirt poor tomorrow, I doubt it would inspire them to go do some crazy stuff.

In fact, in Japan's case, you did have a criminal organization helping the local population in times of relief.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...elief-supplies-in-japan-idUSTRE72O6TF20110325

 

[Gander]

"Dude I crunched the numbers and it appears black people are prone to violence except for mass shooters, mass murders and serial killers it's all them"

 

[TheMikado]

Oh please. If you need a bachelor's degree to not kill someone, then you've failed at life.
It's actually very funny why all this information has to be broken down into specifics, and not just look at patterns in groups.
I don't think level of income or education crossed my mind when I look at why say, Japan or Belgium is safe. Maybe they could be dirt poor tomorrow, I doubt it would inspire them to go do some crazy stuff.

In fact, in Japan's case, you did have a criminal organization helping the local population in times of relief.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...elief-supplies-in-japan-idUSTRE72O6TF20110325

Look your ability to comprehend simple concepts has once again failed you so I'll give you the kindergarten versions.

You need to identify the things that are ALIKE first, then find the differences and then test on those differences.
You aren't doing the basic kindergarten version of logic.
You find all the similarities for the purpose of exclusion from testing them you find the differences....

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Can you source either of these images? /pol seems to be the source for both. I looked for the 2006 Bureau of Justice report and I didn't see that chart. Your second image conveniently omits that Park-Windsor Hills is a neighborhood in Los Angeles and that Beattyville has a population of 1,200 opposed to the 4 million in LA.

Dude is full of shit and is not even dogwhistling anymore. Straight up implying that black people are more prone to crime and violence because of their race and nothing else. Even in NewNeoGaf, I find it crazy that this kind of bald-faced racism is allowed.

 

[Gander]

Black people don't tend to get up in the morning saying to themselves I really need to do harm to white people today. It just doesn't happen.

On the other side of things though there are some that do exactly that.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Black people don't tend to get up in the morning saying to themselves I really need to do harm to white people today. It just doesn't happen.

On the other side of things though there are some that do exactly that.

That is a load of shit and you know it. There are most assuredly black people who get up in the morning and want to harm white people. Being a psychopathic asshole is not limited to specific races, genders, or creeds. Get out of here with that disingenuous malarkey.

Dude is full of shit and is not even dogwhistling anymore. Straight up implying that black people are more prone to crime and violence because of their race and nothing else. Even in NewNeoGaf, I find it crazy that this kind of bald-faced racism is allowed.

If you genuinely believe it is racism, then report it. If the moderators don't agree with you, then maybe you are being a tad over sensitive. It happens.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Even in NewNeoGaf, I find it crazy that this kind of bald-faced racism is allowed.

As long as people aren't typing "nigger" at others, anything else is cool it seems.

 

[Shouta]

I don't even understand what JordanN is even trying to point out since the argument suddenly shifts direction on a moment's notice.

 

[Papa]

I love it when Jordan goes peak autism and heads explode.

 

[TrainedRage]

As long as people aren't typing "nigger" at others, anything else is cool it seems.

Opinions.... People have them.

 

[ipukespiders]

As long as people aren't typing "nigger" at others, anything else is cool it seems.

Oh boo hoo. Why not just say "MODS HELP"? The only people that can hear your "dog whistle" are drinking the purple kool-aid elsewhere.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Opinions.... People have them.

Oh boo hoo. Why not just say "MODS HELP"? The only people that can hear your "dog whistle" are drinking the purple kool-aid elsewhere.

Y'all seem oddly bothered by a pretty straightforward observation.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Y'all seem oddly bothered by a pretty straightforward observation.

Meanwhile, you seem pretty bothered by pretty straightforward non-racist comments.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Meanwhile, you seem pretty bothered by pretty straightforward non-racist comments.

lol. ok.

 

[Papa]

Y'all seem oddly bothered by a pretty simplistic observation.

Fixed that for you my dude. Got your back

 

[ipukespiders]

Y'all

*cringes*

 

[Ke0]

Eh Jordan does the same song in dance in pretty much every thread. Oh noes America will no longer be white majority! Ethnostate! Black crime! I wouldn't let it bother you honestly. He kinda just says a lot of nothing. Differences in opinion can be racist. I'm not American so I can't say but I can easily see why a black-American would be offended with his statements.

 

[Papa]

Eh Jordan does the same song in dance in pretty much every thread. Oh noes America will no longer be white majority! Ethnostate! Black crime! I wouldn't let it bother you honestly. He kinda just says a lot of nothing. Differences in opinion can be racist. I'm not American so I can't say but I can easily see why a black-American would be offended with his statements.

Y'all just don't understand his arguments as far as I can tell. Disagreeing is another thing altogether.

 

[Darkking2001]

So what is he arguing then?

 

[Ke0]

Y'all just don't understand his arguments as far as I can tell. Disagreeing is another thing altogether.

I understand them just fine thanks. I maintain my position if he's that scared of America no longer being a white majority he can always move to a country that is. Much more feasible than getting 13% of your nation to pack up and move to Libya.