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[sophnar0747]

Bit of a self promotion here (I know, I'm the worst) but I wrote a fairly large and research intensive article recently and knowing you lot, I figured you'd appreciate it. Anyways, as many of you probably know, the trans murder rate is cited time & time again. Politicians, activists, & news agencies tell us we're in the midst of an murder epidemic, but the truth is far from what's being presented. In fact, some people weren't even murdered at all.

There is NO trans murder epidemic. But someone IS using trans deaths for political gain in America

Advocacy groups continue to stoke fears on what they call an "epidemic" of murders within the trans community. Worries heard far and wide as politicians and news agencies repeat the warning. But how true is the rhetoric?

www.rt.com

 

[iconmaster]

Oh, hey Sophia. Good to have you on GAF!

 

[sophnar0747]

Oh, hey Sophia. Good to have you on GAF!

Ah thanks. I've been here for a bit, though like most forums I'm on I just lurk in the shadows. Staring at all of you all creepy like.

 

[thief183]

Good article!

Going to admit tat this is not the first time it happens, media as we know it right now is full of "guided" news.
Cudos for making the situation more clear

 

[BigBooper]

I wonder how many of the trans population drink the koolaid. For instance, I've known many black people who did not go along with the rainbow coalition crowd.

Good article! Thanks for sharing it.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

it's barely a lie all you have to do is look up hard numbers. you are more likely to die by getting struck by lightning.

 

[xandaca]

Even if you take these numbers as gospel, the idea of a trans murder 'epidemic' is already a vast swamp of gloopy bullshit. The number of homicides in the USA in 2018 was reportedly 15,498. Trans activist groups claimed 26 trans people were killed in 2018 (meaning this 'epidemic' would have seen a 15% reduction this year in the trans murder rate). Trans people supposedly around 0.6% of the national population. 0.6% of 15,498 is 93, meaning trans people were about 3.5 times LESS likely than cis people to be killed in 2018.

 

[GymWolf]

We have kinda the same shit in italy when they talk about femminicidio (people killing specifically women).
It's like omicide transformed into the word womicide (yeah for real)

Women have always died in the past years but now they need a specific word for this to make political agenda or "interesting" news...

 

[manfestival]

Even if you take these numbers as gospel, the idea of a trans murder 'epidemic' is already a vast swamp of gloopy bullshit. The number of homicides in the USA in 2018 was reportedly 15,498. Trans activist groups claimed 26 trans people were killed in 2018 (meaning this 'epidemic' would have seen a 15% reduction this year in the trans murder rate). Trans people supposedly around 0.6% of the national population. 0.6% of 15,498 is 93, meaning trans people were about 3.5 times LESS likely than cis people to be killed in 2018.

I get what you are saying and I agree with the overall message but the notion that your last message of intermixing data is just wrong on it's own basis.

 

[xandaca]

I get what you are saying and I agree with the overall message but the notion that your last message of intermixing data is just wrong on it's own basis.

How so? Surely if trans activists are claiming there's a trans murder epidemic, the only way to find out if that's true is to measure it against the national homicide rate? Perfectly happy to admit if I'm mistaken, not I don't see where the problem is in comparing data cited by trans activists against official homicide numbers.

The 15,498 number was sourced from here (the FBI), by the way, in the 'Murder and non-negligent manslaughter' column.

 

[Cravis]

Insane that they count 2 that were killed by police when they charged at the officers with a knife.

 

[sophnar0747]

Insane that they count 2 that were killed by police when they charged at the officers with a knife.

Three! There were three that year.

 

[zeorhymer]

I read somewhere that Black Trans violence is the highest....what they don't mention is that the violence is done by their black partners. I sympathize with victims, but these outrage activists are distorting the issue and trying to cash in.

 

[appaws]

I never thought about the connection to prostitution as a factor. Very dangerous line of work.

Very informative and nice job.

 

[manfestival]

How so? Surely if trans activists are claiming there's a trans murder epidemic, the only way to find out if that's true is to measure it against the national homicide rate? Perfectly happy to admit if I'm mistaken, not I don't see where the problem is in comparing data cited by trans activists against official homicide numbers.

The 15,498 number was sourced from here (the FBI), by the way, in the 'Murder and non-negligent manslaughter' column.

You are are arguing the point I agree on lol. I don't see any problems with countering their points with the stated data. I just did not agree with your previous end statement because was disingenuous when comparing data in this microcosm. I guess I am being far too nuanced here since I am sure we mostly agree and this is probably a nitpick.

 

[xandaca]

You are are arguing the point I agree on lol. I don't see any problems with countering their points with the stated data. I just did not agree with your previous end statement because was disingenuous when comparing data in this microcosm. I guess I am being far too nuanced here since I am sure we mostly agree and this is probably a nitpick.

I'm just trying to understand the point you were making because I try and argue as honestly as possible. If I'm being disingenuous even in a small way, it'd be useful to know how so I can potentially make more credible arguments going forward. As far as I can understand it, the sentence you're contesting is '0.6% of 15,498 is 93, meaning trans people were about 3.5 times LESS likely than cis people to be killed in 2018'. My guess is that the issue is that this comes across as a statement of fact rather than about emphasizing the disparity between two sets of data (which is how I should have worded it), and that using two different sets of data to produce my own number is unethical when the criteria and method of data collection between data sets can vary enormously. On the latter point - if that was part of what you were arguing - I'd say that where you would be generally correct, in this case the comparison is between what trans activists state as fact (trans murders; percentage of population) and official data where the collection criteria has little to no room for leeway (a homicide is a homicide, after all) and is thus testing what one group claims to be hard fact against the official hard facts. While that doesn't mean the number I subsequently produced should have been presented as fact, I'd argue it is valid to establish that the trans activists figures are wildly out of sync with the official numbers.

(And I know we agree on the conclusion, so my argument here is solely a defence of my methodology, even if my phrasing was incorrect)

 

[termos]

if something is not even existing , than why they create these type of news

 

[????]

I read somewhere that Black Trans violence is the highest....what they don't mention is that the violence is done by their black partners. I sympathize with victims, but these outrage activists are distorting the issue and trying to cash in.

Who are the outrage activists? What are they cashing in?

 

[belmarduk]

This is one of the reasons prostitution should be legalized. It's a very dangerous line of work and transgender people often find difficulty getting work in most fields.

 

[off duty ninja]

Who are the outrage activists? What are they cashing in?

You seem a little slow so I will help you out.

Who are the outrage activists?

Blog writers posing as journalists citing false data to promote the idea that there is some sort of trans genocide occuring.

What are they cashing in?

Their dignity.

 

[zeorhymer]

Who are the outrage activists? What are they cashing in?

Time magazine lists a whole slew of organizations in reference to "Two Recent Murders of Black Trans Women in Texas Reveal a Nationwide Crisis."

Actually no, if you read all the stories from NYTimes, to CNN, to Washington Post, they all put front and center the HRC (Human Rights Campaign).

Violence is absolutely deplorable, but don't make these cases into pawns.

 

[????]

You seem a little slow so I will help you out.

Who are the outrage activists?

Blog writers posing as journalists citing false data to promote the idea that there is some sort of trans genocide occuring.

What are they cashing in?

Their dignity.

Thanks for the response. Can you link me those blog writers?

 

[????]

Time magazine lists a whole slew of organizations in reference to "Two Recent Murders of Black Trans Women in Texas Reveal a Nationwide Crisis."

Actually no, if you read all the stories from NYTimes, to CNN, to Washington Post, they all put front and center the HRC (Human Rights Campaign).

Violence is absolutely deplorable, but don't make these cases into pawns.

Thanks

 

[off duty ninja]

Thanks for the response. Can you link me those blog writers?

Oh of course, I love providing sources for people who clearly don't actually care.

Here you go.

 

[????]

Oh of course, I love providing sources for people who clearly don't actually care.

Here you go.

I wouldn't ask for clarity if I didn't care

 

[Captain Zyrain]

This article alone likely murdered 1,000 transwomen!*

* - Future Forum Post, you know where.

 

[off duty ninja]

I wouldn't ask for clarity if I didn't care

Ok, did you read the article in the OP? It would have been a great place to start.

 

[????]

Ok, did you read the article in the OP? It would have been a great place to start.

I did. It doesn't mention the outrage activists or the blog writers you haven't cited.

 

[off duty ninja]

I did. It doesn't mention the outrage activists or the blog writers you haven't cited.

Google It

 

[BigBooper]

Google It

I think you are arguing with a troll, fella.

 

[????]

I think you are arguing with a troll, fella.

Gathered as much. Give him a minute, he'll find it

 

[Papa]

lol @ this ? ???? guy

just asking questions

 

[off duty ninja]

Gathered as much. Give him a minute, he'll find it

Congrats on having such a wonderful life.

 

[Despera]

I read somewhere that Black Trans violence is the highest....what they don't mention is that the violence is done by their black partners. I sympathize with victims, but these outrage activists are distorting the issue and trying to cash in.

What difference would mentioning that make to the statistic?

 

[haxan7]

What difference would mentioning that make to the statistic?

Logically, it means the black trans people murdered were killed due to domestic violence, not specifically because they were trans, as the trans activists Sophia wrote about want people to believe. They're twisting the deaths of those people to serve their own agenda.

 

[Despera]

One case I remember is that of Sumaya Dalmar's death back in 2015. Sumaya is a Somalian born Canadian transwoman and human rights activist who was very outspoken. She also did porn like some transwomen do. Just through logistics alone her case carries a much heavier stigma within her community.

The official police report confirmed her death was not a murder. Here's the full statement:



The trans community added her to the statistic of violence against transwomen, specifically black transwomen. Those who spear headed anti-trans violence marches afterward chanted her name, which became a hashtag retweeted 1000s of times, with comments asking to end violence against transwomen.

Does this mean that black transwomen don't get murdered every year at higher rates compared to other ethnicities? Absolutely not. The reports are there for people to rummage through.

Logically, it means the black trans people murdered were killed due to domestic violence, not specifically because they were trans, as the trans activists Sophia wrote about want people to believe. They're twisting the deaths of those people to serve their own agenda.

What % of black trans deaths were caused by domestic violence instigated by a partner who was not a one night stand?

You won't be able to come up with any numbers 'cuz there's none. In these cases, murders are counted at face value.

What I have found in my limited research, and I could be wrong, is that people who are prejudiced against the trans community, and there are many who don't even realize it themselves, try their best to shrug off these statistics as quickly as people. The trans community in response through shear anger and frustration will lach on to and publicize many deaths that aren't confirmed murder cases as evidence for the cause. In response to that those prejudiced against them eagrly highlight these discrepencies, which are true, painting trans people as some out of control, dishonest and obnoxious subset of society. It's a vicious cycle and I believe it's on all of us to see it for what it is.

 

[haxan7]

What I have found in my limited research, and I could be wrong, is that people who are prejudiced against the trans community, and there are many who don't even realize it themselves, try their best to shrug off these statistics as quickly as people. The trans community in response through shear anger and frustration will lach on to and publicize many deaths that aren't confirmed murder cases as evidence for the cause. In response to that those prejudiced against them eagrly highlight these discrepencies, which are true, painting trans people as some out of control, dishonest and obnoxious subset of society. It's a vicious cycle and I believe it's on all of us to see it for what it is.

Ok bro, what you're essentially saying is "check your white privilege" or "check your cis privilege" and you can take that elsewhere. No one is going to convince me that I'm secretly prejudiced against trans people, because it's simply not true.

 

[Despera]

Ok bro, what you're essentially saying is "check your white privilege" or "check your cis privilege" and you can take that elsewhere. No one is going to convince me that I'm secretly prejudiced against trans people, because it's simply not true.

It's not directed at you haxan.

I'm with your point regarding deaths being twisted into murders to serve an agenda, but not with your generlized statement on black trans deaths being cases of domestic violence.

 

[haxan7]

It's not directed at you haxan.

I'm with your point regarding deaths being twisted into murders to serve an agenda, but not with your generlized statement on black trans deaths being cases of domestic violence.

Then why quote my post talking about the exact thing you responded to?

 

[Despera]

Then why quote my post talking about the exact thing you responded to?

As I said, disagreeing with the generalization.

The first 2 paragraphs after the quote is my direct response to your post.

 

[EviLore]

Good article and well-researched as always sophnar0747 . Andy Ngo caught a Twitter suspension recently for simply stating the facts on the trans murder rate. Strange days we live in.

 

[Papa]

What difference would mentioning that make to the statistic?

Because it's a refutation of the activist claim that violence is targeted specifically at black transwomen.

 

[haxan7]

As I said, disagreeing with the generalization.

The first 2 paragraphs after the quote is my direct response to your post.

You said that people are "shrugging off these statistics as quickly as possible due to prejudice against trans people". I don't agree this is the case. The vast majority of people don't give any thought to trans individuals one way or the other outside of any daily life interactions which may occur, in which case all normal and reasonable people (who are in the majority) will treat them the same as anyone else.

It's largely whiners on the internet who want attention trying to create some kind of victim status for trans people.

 

[Despera]

You said that people are "shrugging off these statistics as quickly as possible due to prejudice against trans people". I don't agree this is the case. The vast majority of people don't give any thought to trans individuals one way or the other outside of any daily life interactions which may occur, in which case all normal and reasonable people (who are in the majority) will treat them the same as anyone else.

It's largely whiners on the internet who want attention trying to create some kind of victim status for trans people.

Even if the majority of people are reasonable enough, a minority can still be a significant number/threat. It's a huge populous nation after all.

Because it's a refutation of the activist claim that violence is targeted specifically at black transwomen.

Their claim is that black transwomen have a higher chance of being victims of violence.

Why should violence committed by partners be excluded from the statistic?

In case of transfolk it's not always easy to discern whether a murder was a crime of passion or hate or something other.

 

[nush]

Why should violence committed by partners be excluded from the statistic?

Correlation isn't in all cases causation.

 

[haxan7]

Even if the majority of people are reasonable enough, a minority can still be a significant number/threat. It's a huge populous nation after all.

This is the case for any person of any ethnicity or sexual orientation or gender identity or preferred shoe brand. When you go outside, you can be shot or stabbed or run over by a car, or have two really cute chihuahuas named Thelma and Louise come and take a liking to you. Where's your evidence there is an epidemic of discrimination and violence facing trans people, disproportionately from any other groups or even (gasp) straight white males?

 

[Despera]

discrimination and violence facing trans people, disproportionately from any other groups or even (gasp) straight white males?

Wait... I thought this was common knowledge.

 

[haxan7]

Wait... I thought this was common knowledge.

If the only media you consume is similar to what Sophia refuted in her article, it would certainly seem to be common knowledge.

 

[Despera]

If the only media you consume is similar to what Sophia refuted in her article, it would certainly seem to be common knowledge.

Not that gullible, and it should be common knowledge :/

 

[Mato]

I don't know the OP and have nothing personal against them nor do I have an understanding of the topic discussed but it is an unpleasant surprise to find out that the provided source is considered reputable by many users.