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[Mister Apoc]

i have seen this argument before where people argue it is a white savior story and others argue its not.

Paul Atreides is the chosen one, he becomes the Kwisatz-Haderach a precognition super being that leads the Fremen (often allegorized as a semi Arabic nomad culture)

so a white man becomes the messiah among groups. Now people have argued that the story is not that... for those that have read it, what are your thoughts?

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

What are you smoking today, OP? I'll buy some from you.

 

[infinitys_7th]

This reminds me of a time I larped as an SJW and claimed Ace Attorney 6 is racist because "white" Phoenix Wright was bringing justice to the "foreign" Khurain.

Ended up convincing some people to label the game as racist lmao

 

[eot]

It's not. The whole saga is more a criticism of such saviour figures. The prophecy that Paul ends up fulfilling was not a real prophecy, it was planted there by the Bene-Gesserit's Missionaria Protectiva. They purposefully seeded religious beliefs in the event that they would need to exploit them in the future. Paul unintentionally fulfils this fake prophecy becoming a messiah in the eyes of the Fremen. However, this ultimately leads to galaxy spanning, religious war. Paul is not a hero for leading the Fremen, he is an example of the destruction that kind of fanaticism can cause.

 

[Gargus]

It's a good story. That's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[Bolivar687]

The idea of Paul being a savior falls away almost as soon as you open the second book.

Races, religions and cultures have been mixed up quite a bit in this setting, I don't know if Paul is necessarily supposed to be anymore White than the Fremen are supposed to be Arabic.

 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Paul isn't a savior. He becomes a leader.

"white savior" comes from critical theorist mentality and their ethnic/gender/group identity-centric way of reading and writing. To them, a character represents that character's people. Paul's people are mostly killed off early on and he's entirely separated from his home world. He then essentially becomes a cult leader. The story is about human-centric concepts. It's not something a race merchant can recognize.

 

[Nikodemos]

The idea of Paul being a savior falls away almost as soon as you open the second book.

Races, religions and cultures have been mixed up quite a bit in this setting, I don't know if Paul is necessarily supposed to be anymore White than the Fremen are supposed to be Arabic.

The Atreides (and Caladanians, as a whole) are supposed to be a Mediterranean archetype (their family name comes from Atreos).

Herbert is very critical of prophetic figures. He even created Leto II as the anti-messianic archetype: someone who has good goals, but is widely seen as a brutal tyrant, versus Paul who's a generally decent guy, but drowns the galaxy in a bloody, yet ultimately pointless jihad (Leto II notes how Paul diminished the faufreluches, but did not eliminate them, thus perpetuating the general stagnation of humanity).

 

[O-N-E]

It ain't with the wokeness. Not at all.

And I'll tell yah what else ain't woke, people constantly culturally appropriating the Jewish culture... Kwisatz-Haderach, the gate of alchemy in FMA, that part in Attack on Titan, the Darcsens in Valkyria Chronicles, "Live long and prosper", etc....

 

[ROMhack]

Maybe

 

[GreyHorace]

As mentioned by a number of posters here, no it's not a white savior story. In fact, I'd argue it's a deconstruction of the white savior trope. Yes, Paul Atreides is a messianic figure who brings hope to an oppressed people (the Fremen), but he only uses them to get his revenge on the people who ruined his family (The Harkonnens and then the Padashah Emperor).

You could say Dune is the anti-Star Wars, even though Frank Herbert's book was published before A New Hope came out by about 8 years. There's no denying that George Lucas borrowed a lot of elements from Dune, but his story was more whimsical and hopeful whereas Herbert's work was much more cynical and dark in it's themes.

 

[ROMhack]

If nobody has read Dune btw then I really recommend getting a free 30-day trial and listening to the Audible version. Put it on, put on a game and just listen.

It's an amazing book.

 

[redfirm]

please god stop this, this is the reason i left the other forum. its just a story. a creative output. something on someones mind. its not real. the author can say, write, create whatever he wants. its called freedom. even if it was a white savior story, or black, or any other color. it would not matter.

 

[Birdo]

No, he isn't.

Here is a good vid about it: