hyperbertha
Member
Do you know what data streaming is?
Jason Schreier's industry sources: PS5 is superior in ways that Sony has not communicated yet
- Thread starter LordOfChaos
- Start date
DrAspirino
Banned
Okay. Wanna know why I laugh at the idea?
The Gigabyte AORUS NVME is the fastest SSD on the market right now. It uses NVME bus, optimized custom controller, firmware and it's own RAM for cache. The 1 TB stick costs $271 and it reaches a top speed of... 4.9 GB/s in sequential read, and 4.2 GB/s in write.
Ok, let's suppose that Sony created its own controller for the SSD (a la Apple T2 chip) and gets a bit more performance from the NAND memory than the competition (otherwise they'd have to license the technology from Gigabyte or Samsung) : do you honestly think they can still get their R&D AND material costs to even less than $150 per-drive? (assuming the PS5 would cost $450)
Right...let's say that they managed to get the cost down. How will they handle the heat? Because unlike previous generation, NVMe SSDs tend to get hot (and a lot) and need proper cooling, otherwise they start losing performance. Sony already said they have a special solution for the APU...but haven't spoken about the entire chasis.
Lastly, let's say they've overcome all those issues. They have to take into account the random IOPS the drive is going to have to handle. Even if the theoretical speed is 5 GB/s, there is no way in hell that speed will be achieved, as that is sequential reading and most games don't use files that are large enough to actually reach that speed. In fact, games use a lot of smaller files (such as textures, sounds, etc) that are stored randomly in different places. If anything, the reading performance in games would be pretty much like the ones in the Xbox Series X.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Shambala
Member
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Naughty Dog is going to continue that streak of GOTY nominations
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
You know what? I'm officially checking out of all "power level" discussions.
The ps5 is weaker. Either accept that you prefer the exclusives to the teraflops or shut up about the ssd and the secret sauce.
The ps5 is weaker. Either accept that you prefer the exclusives to the teraflops or shut up about the ssd and the secret sauce.
Reindeer
Member
Again, you using SSD is gonna change gaming argument like somebody disagrees with you, but that's not the same as faster SSD is gonna change gaming compared to slower one. SSD is great, but you have not brought forward any proof that faster SSD offers great benefit over slower ones when it comes to gaming, in fact it offers little difference when it comes to loading. And please stop bringing articles and videos about how great SSDs are, I agree with those, but it's not proof that faster SSDs bring massive difference over slower ones like faster CPUs and GPUs do. And let's not forget, Series X doesn't exactly have a slow SSD.
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Piku_Ringo
Banned
eastwood333
Banned
There is an ex sony dev who confirms that the power difference between XSX and PS5 is "staggering"
Shmunter
Member
1.7TF difference Is staggering? Not sure what to think here.
Reindeer
Member
You talking about theoretical benefit, which is different to practical benefit of which there exists no factual example in gaming to back this up.
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Reindeer
Member
1.9 or 1.87 to be exact, quite a sizeable difference I would say. That's without taking into consideration variable clocks.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Ikr the difference between the X and the Pro wasn't even close to being staggering
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
PS5's higher clocks and going narrow and fast will give it some advantages like higher fill rate, faster cache and less GPU idle time combined with its blazing SSD
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I already did. You think it's going to perform nearly on the same level and how it will not make much of a difference.
You're downplaying the speeds even though others are saying it.
You can't talk about DF backing up your claims and ignore him when he disagrees with your point.
Reindeer
Member
Who are saying it? Sony devs or devs that are close to Sony? Lol, don't make me laugh. There are also devs that are saying Series X is a more powerful system despite SSD, one former Sony devs even said same today. You just pick and choose to support your confirmation bias.
I never disagreed with DF about SSD importance and how it will help to transform gaming, I disagree with your claim that faster SSD will make a massive difference over slower one when it comes to game design. You haven't brought any factual evidence to back your claim.
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Shmunter
Member
Staggering, sizeable, monumental, massive, gargantuan.
All great words, common it doesn't seem rational at these levels. Not sure if someone did this guy hard for him to tweet such contradictions.
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DrAspirino
Banned
"Higher clocks"...yeah, right. Those are VARIABLE clocks, which COULD be achieved on certain peak moments, but nowhere near mantained constantly.
I have a MacBook Air that has an Intel i5 CPU that's clocked at 1.6 Ghz and turbo-boosts up to 2.5 Ghz. Can I say my CPU is 2.5Ghz when in reality it rarely hits that clock speed? Of course not!
Same happens with PS5 variable clocks
SleepDoctor
Banned
Do you guys actually play any games or just sit here crying all day? Lol this shit is pathetic. If the ps5 even had a .01 tf advantage we wouldn't hear shit about an ssd.
Wasn't DF a ms shill? You guys flip flop so much its hard to keep up.
Wasn't DF a ms shill? You guys flip flop so much its hard to keep up.
Shmunter
Member
Pretty sure people have taken the effort to address the difference between thermal throttling and what the PS5 clock strategy is. It's not how you think it, unrelated strategies."Higher clocks"...yeah, right. Those are VARIABLE clocks, which COULD be achieved on certain peak moments, but nowhere near mantained constantly.
I have a MacBook Air that has an Intel i5 CPU that's clocked at 1.6 Ghz and turbo-boosts up to 2.5 Ghz. Can I say my CPU is 2.5Ghz when in reality it rarely hits that clock speed? Of course not!
Same happens with PS5 variable clocks
V4skunk
Banned
20-25% power difference isn't staggering.
Paracelsus
Member
1.7TF when they get the super mega fast system to work really really fast.
Basically 9 vs 12 in every game except Sony's AAAA first party titles.
Reindeer
Member
I would say sizeable is a very rational word. If almost 2 tflops isn't sizeable to you then I think you being irrational.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
RDNA 2.0 allows for much higher clocks, Cerny mentioned they can stay at relatively higher speeds too"Higher clocks"...yeah, right. Those are VARIABLE clocks, which COULD be achieved on certain peak moments, but nowhere near mantained constantly.
I have a MacBook Air that has an Intel i5 CPU that's clocked at 1.6 Ghz and turbo-boosts up to 2.5 Ghz. Can I say my CPU is 2.5Ghz when in reality it rarely hits that clock speed? Of course not!
Same happens with PS5 variable clocks
Reindeer
Member
I know lol, these Sony boys just quote whoever agrees with them even though the same person could have been a "shill" just a day before. It's funny to see now DF become the most authentic source of info when they were apparently sellouts when they were backing GitHub leaks for months.
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Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
10.3TF vs 12TF is staggering?
That's a 'what the heck' from me.
celsowmbr
Banned
Cu
Cu is anus in portuguese
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Piku_Ringo
Banned
Gotta wait for ChaiNah to get their factories up and running again
SX:
+17% TF (Without even considering the superiority of the GPU in everything that depends on the clock.)
+3% CPU
-53% SSD
the only "staggering" difference is in favor of the PS5
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
yet this drive is likely practically no faster than a sata ssd in loading games, if it's anything like other pc nvme drives.
Why? The pc bottlenecks, the bottlenecks that ps5 doesn't have.
edit:
loading is practically no different between ssds in pc, even between sata and nvme, because of bottlenecks. Bottlenecks the ps5 does not have.
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Sony has yet to publish a chart on the variable clocks only generic terms so you are using best case for Sony not under heavy load especially when games push hardware 5 years from now.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
These are the same guys who gamed on the base 1.32 Tflop Xbox One from 2013 - 2017 in 720P - 900P without any issues
Reindeer
Member
Not sure why you replied to that specific comment of mine as it had nothing to do with your response.
You know, I've seen SSDs that had 400% advantage over other SSDs and they made almost no difference whatsoever when it came to loading or framerate on a game like Star Citizen that is built around SSD tech, so that math of yours doesn't always work.
"Higher clocks"...yeah, right. Those are VARIABLE clocks, which COULD be achieved on certain peak moments, but nowhere near mantained constantly.
I have a MacBook Air that has an Intel i5 CPU that's clocked at 1.6 Ghz and turbo-boosts up to 2.5 Ghz. Can I say my CPU is 2.5Ghz when in reality it rarely hits that clock speed? Of course not!
Same happens with PS5 variable clocks
You are compare PS5 to a pc, to a Macbook...
RDNA 2 is a new tech from AMD with low power consumption, and 50% better performance than RDNA 1.
Variable clocks and overclocking are not the same thing.
DrAspirino
Banned
People seem to not get my point.
True, RDNA 2.0 can get to higher clocks, but then again those ARE NOT base clocks. It's not the same saying "peaks of 2.2 Ghz" than "constant 2.2 Ghz". You have a lower base in the first and a base clock at the latter.
If you need to code something that's time-dependant, it's easier to write an expected response when you have a constant clock speed. You can have physics processing in X cycle and sound in Y cycle knowing fully well how long will it take for X cycle to output a result and Y cycle to output a result. You can't have that on variable clock rates.
He never said that.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Bottlenecks when it comes to ssds like the i/o. High end pcs tend to have just 8 ryzen cores. The ps5 has custom i/o equivalent to over 11 ryzen cores to help eliminate bottlenecks. It is not just a custom ssd controller the ps5 has but a custom i/o chip.
Have you heard of pc i/o chips which are as powerful or more powerful than their cpus?
edit:
For the same computing load the ps5's clocks do not vary. They only vary for different workloads and in a deterministic manner.
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DrAspirino
Banned
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The ssd wont help it apart from loading times.
The PS5 should be able to do TLOU2 in native 4k60fps, but im not expecting much more enhancements.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Did you read the first post?
It's about PlayStation 5 is superior in other ways.
Where did I say it's more powerful overall? That's right, no where.
I backed up my post with evidence how it can play out. You tried to downplay it as much as possible.
Reindeer
Member
That's not evidence, that's assumption and speculation lol.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
yes. But the ps5 has the equivalent to 20+ cores all the time. A game for pc would basically have to dedicate 11+ cores all the time to match ps5's streaming capability if it doesn't have custom i/o, on top of the 8 cores for the game.
edit:
the bottlenecks shown on the slides. edit: The ps5 custom i/o is equivalent to over 11 ryzen cores working fulltime to remove them.
PC "star citizen" SSD:
PS5 SSD:
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. You PlayStation fanboys love making stuff up on the fly 
.then communicates to the developer to make the game only for those with a 64-core CPU.
LOL
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