Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Huge article by Nature today.

SARS-Cov-2 has 1000x more virus peak density near your respiratory system than SARS for an infected individual, and this peak often appears BEFORE any symptoms.
 
We'll see the (US) numbers at 8:30 am ET today, but holy shit. If Goldman released new estimates so close to the release, they were probably tipped off.



It was 3.283 million people last week.
 

The fucking XR terrorists are readying themselves to cause trouble, surprise surprise. FFS even ISIS decided to stop being terrorist shits during this.

Revealed: Extinction Rebellion's plan to exploit the Covid crisis

The group sees 'silver linings' in the pandemic

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s we contemplate the havoc being wrought by coronavirus, most of us see mainly sickness, death and economic ruin. Dr Rupert Read, spokesman for the climate protest group Extinction Rebellion — plus sometime Green party candidate, and associate professor of philosophy at the University of East Anglia — has rather a different view. In this pandemic, he writes, 'there is a huge opportunity for XR… It is essential that we do not let this crisis go to waste.'

Read's thoughts are set out in a paper entitled 'Some strategic scenario-scoping of the coronavirus-XR nexus.' The paper is not meant to be widely read. 'NB, this is a confidential document for internal XR use, NOT for publication!' he writes at the head.

Small wonder. After all, says Read, even if the gloomiest projections of national and global mortality turn out to be accurate, 'the direct risk to most of us from corona is low, and the direct risk to humanity is low in the sense that even a very bad case scenario of a hundred million deaths, though horrible, would hardly break us.'

Read says that the virus 'may overwhelm some healthcare systems', including Britain's NHS — in which case, 'many of those who then need medical treatment, ill and old people especially, will not be able to get it, and some/many of them will die.'

But there is a bright side, he insists, because the virus will also test the 'vulnerable, just-in-time systems' of trade. This, in turn, 'might set off cascading breakdown effects, given how interconnected we have allowed our global system to become, how fragile and un-resilient many of our systems are, and how close to the edge some of them are already. Corona might lead indirectly to partial or complete collapses, especially in more vulnerable countries.'

That is a prospect Read seems to relish. If, he writes, 'the government tries to stimulate the economy to counter the corona-induced stock-market crash… we should firmly reply (if necessary, including via actions) that it is unacceptable to use the coronavirus as an excuse for more harmful economic growths [sic] that will simply exacerbate an under-lying eco-crisis that is also killing right now.'

XR thinks the pandemic is Gaia's punishment for our profligate, consumerist lifestyles
This, he goes on, is 'the government's most vulnerable point. The corona crisis makes clear what we climate activists have seen for years: that the government isn't coming to save us… it is possible that the entire system may be weakened by this. The likes of Trump and Johnson, in their dire failure to have acted precautiously so as to protect citizens, might find themselves far more vulnerable, within months.'
Read is a leader of an extremely fashionable cause. XR receives donations from all sorts of affluent people. Its leaders are often interviewed by the BBC, and Read himself has been a guest on Question Time. Notoriously, last year, even as its 'rebel' hoards brought London to a standstill, XR was granted an audience with Michael Gove.

You don't have to be a climate change sceptic to find this puzzling. Last year, a report by Policy Exchange's Security and Extremism unit showed persuasively — purely on the basis of the XR leadership's own utterances — that the movement's ultimate aims are 'the breakdown of democracy and the state'. Most of its followers, the report added, 'are completely unaware of this objective, despite it being readily espoused by their leaders… Celebrities, politicians and members of the public have been seduced into believing that Extinction Rebellion's methods and tactics are honourable and justified, when clearly they are not.'

XR's leaders have said many times that they want to abolish parliament and capitalism. They have declared war on modernity, and although aviation accounts for just 2 per cent of global CO2 emissions, nothing would please them more than to see commercial flying abolished, or at least drastically curtailed. The virus's leap from animals to humans at a Wuhan wetmarket has nothing to do with global warming, but XR thinks the pandemic is Gaia's punishment for our profligate, consumerist lifestyles.

Moreover, when it speaks to itself in private, XR makes no secret of the way it mobilises support — through fear, exaggeration and protests. Another XR document I have acquired is a record of recent discussions by its 'Action Strategy Group', which set out 'core principles and projects' it thinks 'essential' for the coming months.


Among the group's 'top ideas' are to 'scare' people by stressing the 'fear of death, famine, air pollution… fear of hell, hell on earth, fire floods', with 'children and vulnerable people on the front line'. This year, the same document says, XR must be ready to embrace what it calls 'extreme sacrifice', arguing: 'We must encourage more extreme actions to achieve meaningful change… Extreme self-sacrificial actions can act as a vanguard for the movement, inspiring people in their rebellious journey and focusing the world's attention.'

What might they consist of? No half-measures here: A 'hunger strike to the death', and possibly 'one person [committing] suicide' in a public place such as the London Stock Exchange. An XR spokeswoman said these proposals were 'brainstorming', and that the group would 'not encourage anyone to put their own life at risk'.

Rupert Read is a bit of an expert at what that document calls 'fear visioning'. In October, notwithstanding XR's insistence that its claims are based on science, he told hundreds of children at the Schools Climate Conference at University College London that the damage of global warming was so great it no longer made sense to ask them what they wanted to do when they grew up. Instead, he insisted, 'We have reached a point in human history where we have to ask, "What are you going to do if you grow up?"'

Dr Tamsin Edwards, a distinguished — and very much non-sceptical — climate scientist from Kings College London, expressed horror when Read posted his lecture online: 'Rupert, I am shocked at this talk. Please stop telling children they may not grow up due to climate change,' she tweeted. 'It is WRONG… I thought you wanted to be supported by evidence… I sincerely hope you no longer tell such untruths as "IF you grow up" and that you will now take it offline.'

She was wasting her time. 'It is not wrong,' Read replied. 'You have no expertise that can show it is wrong… MANY will die.'

This is the context in which Read sets out the 'opportunity' presented by the pandemic. During the spring and early summer, Read says, when the crisis is at its peak, XR should concentrate on 'helping communities remain as corona-free as possible, and helping ensure that those who get infected get help as much as possible'. Admirably, its members should 'ensure that the vulnerable and those in self-quarantine are not abandoned (countering loneliness).'

Having built up a resultant stock of good will, 'the moment to make these very real parallels, between climate and corona, is when the virus starts to wane. Because that is when there will suddenly be a collective sigh of relief, and huge ideological forces will swing into action to say: start shopping and jetting again, go back to "life as normal". That is the moment when we need to say (in words, and actions): let's not jump from the frying pan of coronavirus to the fire of climate cataclysm.'

According to Read, when the crisis begins to pass, XR must 'seek to continue the silver linings of the corona tragedy: the massively reduced carbon emissions… The moment that siren voices call for a return to business as usual, that is the moment to say NO and to offer/insist on a better alternative.' People will see that the virus was 'a dry run' for the climate emergency, and this will make XR's demands 'more pertinent than ever'. Asked about his paper, Read added: 'It would be a gross collective dereliction of duty if we were not as a nation to learn from this coronavirus. The crisis it has imposed upon us should be used to ensure that we make ourselves less vulnerable to future crises: whether future pandemics, or the climate crisis. That's just common sense.'




Extreme as Read and his cohorts are, there is every sign that other influential figures are beginning to argue on similar lines — that the post-crisis world needs to be both different and less enjoyable, with things such as cheap foreign holidays, easy mobility and rising standards of living consigned to the past.

'When the corona crisis is over, we'll remember there's something infinitely worse and more destructive hanging over us: the threat to our planet,' the veteran BBC reporter — and inveterate earner of air miles — John Simpson tweeted last week. According to the Oxford historian Peter Frankopan, the days of a 'me-first world' may be over, and if they are, 'one beneficiary will be the climate: after all, the world's lungs are already breathing more easily thanks to the collapse of industrial production'.

How a populace picking itself up after months of lockdown to survey a bleak vista of impoverishment and economic devastation may view such messages when the time comes remains to be seen. It may depend on whether, with hindsight, the measures now being taken are seen as justified — or, as some are already arguing, as a catastrophic overreaction, which slightly prolonged the lives of a relatively small number of old and infirm people at an almost unimaginable cost. Either way, Read's thoughts are a guide to the coming battlelines.
 
Dr. Robert Gallo was on MSNBC and he said that there is an existing vaccine that may help with Covid-19. He said we are going to hear about it very soon. I wouldn't too much thought into yet until the report comes out.



creating the vaccine isn't the issue, its the testing etc that takes time. It takes up to a year.
 
Don't forget ramping up production to supply 7 billion people with the vaccine. Not a trivial task.

Yea we got somebody here nearby that got militairy protection now ( company ) that has 10 vaccines in the work. They choose last week the final one they going to do human trails with. but the production is a big issue, they are basically starting production already last week in masses for the vaccine, but gotta wait until tests are done which is going to take up to a year or so. I think the company is called "American medical group Johnson & Johnson". They are pretty high profile as they already developed multiple cures for diseases before.
 
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Glad to see the ultratwat Peston exposed.

Where is this even from? What's "television centre"? That's oddly unspecific.

Anyway, takes quite a bit of hubris to start arguing with a doctor about things you learned about from some random source online in the last week.
 
Good thing we start helping each other, all that hate in te world needs to be something left in the past, forever.
You mean this is the real Alien invasion, where the world needs to put there tribal culture aside and start seeing the whole world as part of the human race, instead of nations trying to one up each other...?

if only we would be that lucky.. but i have my doubts.. there will always be psychopaths, trying to gain power over others and exploiting the situation..
 
Yesterday right shulder blade on my back ached and today my right lung aches when I take a very deep breath or blow nose. temp is 36.6... I am at work yay
 
Yesterday right shulder blade on my back ached and today my right lung aches when I take a very deep breath or blow nose. temp is 36.6... I am at work yay
Also had this, 2 weeks ago, never got fever, I did had a bit of shortness in breath still have sometimes an ache in the back, but feel fine , can still do jogging . Could also be hay fever.
 
Where is this even from? What's "television centre"? That's oddly unspecific.

Anyway, takes quite a bit of hubris to start arguing with a doctor about things you learned about from some random source online in the last week.
Television Centre is the home of the BBC.

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It probably sounds a bit weird to foreigners, but pretty much everyone over here would know what that means.

I did note that that journalist skated so close to pointing out how obviously bollocks the chinese numbers where when trying to argue his case, with the question of why if this test doesnt work the way he thinks it does, why are the CCP using it as evidence for their lack of infection? Sadly he only just brushed against that epiphany instead of putting 2 and 2 together.
 
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Yesterday was +76,872 new cases if today matches that we will hit 1M cases
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or we might be there already because China lies
 
So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.
 
We'll see the (US) numbers at 8:30 am ET today, but holy shit. If Goldman released new estimates so close to the release, they were probably tipped off.



It was 3.283 million people last week.

Good god that's sad. I wish well for people that lost or will lose their jobs

Im so grateful to work everyday in an hospital even though I can't see my kids, I know we will be alright after this
 
So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.
While it seems a bit frustrating and hopeless now, the CCP WILL pay for this mess. It's our job as free citizens to not let anyone forget what they have done or make any excuses.
 
So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.
After the bunch of orders from China that were sent with defective equipment I actually think this might be a good idea.
 
From the source, they only require the products to have a Chinese certification, in addition of the one for the importing country. It won't really fix the case of defective equipment being delivered, for example in EU they were supposed to meet the EU certification already and didn't.
It's not like there's an easy way to enforce it anyway, compliance with certification is usually just a form you fill when selling your product. Not meeting that quality can get the company in trouble afterwards, but at the moment you receive your order, nobody has checked that it was compliant.
 
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NY resident u/madfrogurt documenting their experience.
("code blue" is medical jargon for when a patient suddenly needs immediate intervention to survive, for example a heart attack or complete respiratory failure)

Day 1.
3 COVID cases in a census of 14 (one hospitalist called out sick today so I got to spend my morning scrambling to get caught up with the new adds).
49M with no significant PMH who tested positive for COVID. Fever and DoE for a couple weeks now. A couple weeks. Now it's at rest too, which brought him in.
He was desatting to the high 80s on 2L O2, nurse bumped it to 4L. SpO2 mid 90s now. He feels fine so long as he doesn't get out of bed.
His lungs sound like shit, bilateral basilar rales to about a third of the way up. Nurse is concerned and I'm concerned that he's heading towards ARDS. So I do the typical CXR and ABG so I can at least get a baseline if he goes south.
I found out later that to minimize exposure, we shouldn't get serial imaging or labs more than once a day. Oh, and BIPAP doesn't help apparently so the progression is just maxing out O2 on a nonrebreather then proceeding directly to intubation. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, just straight to the tube.
The hospital is receiving 3-4 extra non-COVID patients from another hospital that is already maxed out. Already.
The other residents not already scheduled for inpatient or the ICU got told to expect to be mobilized to come in.
I'm terrified.
I'm going to do what I can to protect my team as the senior. I'm going to make COVID cases volunteer only, or I'll see all of them myself and write the notes.
All I want to do is go home and cry and go to sleep.


Day 2
"Queens is drowning, it's underwater."
All hands on deck meeting with the medical director of the hospital. Went over the new guidelines (which change daily) about the number of transferred patients we're getting from maxed out hospitals, and everything from personal protection equipment, to the shitty disposable stethoscopes in the rooms, to COVID management, to the fairest way of splitting up positive COVID cases among the hospitalists. Lots of back and forth on the idea of COVID-only rounders vs evenly splitting up the cases. They flat out said the extra Residents would be working a COVID only service.
I chimed in asking how long it was before we are a COVID MAJORITY hospital, at which point this becomes moot. I figure it'll be with the next 2 days.
37 confirmed positive COVID patients. 17 rule outs. 7 COVID patients on ventilators. (Overall census is low too, only 139 active cases because we've been kicking out the not-too-ill.)
2 confirmed on my census, 2 highly likely pending, 1 low likely.
One of those high-likely is 29.
Had a curbside consult with an ICU attending.
Med redditors: I've now heard from both a pulmonologist and ICU attendings who say unlike your typical septic patient, COVID cases should be dry before they need to be intubated. And having patients self prone can improve SpO2 by 5-10%.
Oh and when I said one my patients is hypoxic on high flow O2 and might need to be intubated, he asked her age (88), flat out said she'd never get off the ventilator and then darkly implied that we're close to a point where "decisions" would have to be made.
...
Last night, immediately after I got home I vomited from the anxiety of the day. Held it together that long at least.


Day 3.
Code Blue right off the bat at 7:35. COVID in the ICU, transferred an hour earlier from another maxed hospital. From the chart: 66F with DM2, CAD, HTN. 5 days of cough and body aches, a little short of breath. She was seen by an ED physician just after midnight two days ago. Within 8 hours she had crashed and required intubation. Multifocal pneumonia with positive COVID. Officially admitted to that ICU 24 hours later. Transferred to our ICU 24 hours after that, and 1 hour later her Discharge Note for the Expired Patient was written.
She marks the first COVID patient I've seen die.
The anxiety I felt a couple days ago isn't so bad now. It's clear there was no avoiding this mass casualty event. Now there's just work to do.
The thing about intubating a COVID case is it's a high risk droplet bomb going off around the guys and gals most needed right now: intensivists, anesthesiologists and those badass ICU nurses who are all needed to tube people whose lungs are filling up with fluid. Hospitalists might be able to pick up the slack, but they haven't the same muscle memory.
So as I'm watching this woman die in her closed glass box of an ICU room, a grizzled doctor with the swagger of an old intensivist says to no one in particular, "Is that a confirmed positive? Not going anywhere NEAR there!"
A nurse over to my left says, "We shouldn't have to Code cases like this." And it's not with the same tone as "This is pointless," it's "This puts us in danger for nothing." I stay out of the room, the extra manpower of one extra resident won't be worth the PPE for chest compressions. But my chief resident is in there.
He's a good guy; hope he doesn't get sick.
(As I write this, I get a call that one of my patients has died. Non-COVID, was in denial about her metastatic cancer, COPD, CHF progressively worse shortness of breath but still wanted to be intubated. She got her wish and died within an hour or two still.)
Then a Rapid Response at 7:56. Then a Rapid Response at 8:01. Then a Rapid Response at 10:30. That last one was for the patient I just mentioned who passed, we put her on BIPAP and loaded her up with Lasix. Then a Rapid Response again at 12:30, again for my patient, watched the intubation occur. There was a minor discussion of where to put her, since the ICU and CCU were full. We're in the process of transitioning the SICU into another ventilator bay.
Lunch arrives sometime after 13:00. Here's one silver lining to all this: the community has gone out of its way to shower us with food. My lunches and dinners (residents know to always raid the hospitalists' office and grab a plate before heading home to crash) have been Mediterranean chicken kebobs on Sunday, chicken piccata on Monday, and pizza today. It genuinely raises moral.
Another Rapid as I'm talking to some other residents and wolfing down a slice. Most of these Rapids have been for non-COVID cases. The ones that are about COVID cases turn into intubation events.
I was wrong yesterday when I predicted we'd become a majority COVID case hospital in 2 days. We crossed the 51% threshold today.
I was naïve when I thought I could volunteer for the resident-run COVID wing so that one less of my fellow residents would be put at risk. We're all at risk. So now we have 3 residents and an outpatient attending looking over 10 confirmed COVID cases.
My census of 13 today has 5 confirmed and 1 suspected COVID patients. I wish we could make these cases voluntary, but all we can do now is limit exposure and spread out the cases somewhat.
I get a call that our 88 year old COVID patient is desatting on 6L supplemental O2 via nasal canula. So we put her on a non-rebreather. I get a call that she's desatting down to the mid-80s when talking in long sentences despite the 100% oxygen she's receiving via mask. The nurse is spooked, and the current plan is to do a Full Code should she tank. So the patient and I get to have The Talk.
The Talk is basically asking people if they want to receive (often futile) CPR that cracks their ribs as they die, or if they would prefer to be attached to machines when they die. But I don't put it like that. I say things like "chest compressions" and "a plastic tube down your throat" but made it clear that if she were to be sedated for the intubation, she may never wake up. And despite our plans and treatments, her body is taking actions that will most likely (but we can never say guaranteed) going to end her life. Not today, but it's a good time to put things in order.
The patient said her daughters want everything to be done for her, but she doesn't want to be on machines when she dies. I said that was reasonable. She asked me what I would do, and what I would want for my mother.
I'm not proud of this next part.
I told the truth. I said that my mom and I have worked in medicine, and she would never want to be intubated if it was a long shot she'd ever recover. I told her I recently only rescinded my own Do Not Intubate order because were I to get COVID and need intubation, I'm a young, healthy guy who could survive it. But were I hit by a truck and braindead, I'd never want to be intubated. She said she'd call her daughter back and explain things.
I get a call later saying this very sharp 88 year old lady has signed the form declaring her Do Not Resuscitate / Do Not Intubate.
Intubation would have been the wrong choice here, I believe that. And I only told the truth (which I usually avoid by saying things like "it's not for me to make you decide either way.")I helped the patient make her personal wishes count at the end of her life so she could die on her terms.
But, in the back of my head, I was also thinking I saved the nurses from having to witness a pointless and traumatic CPR and I saved one likely-inevitable ICU bed and a ventilator.

I don't feel like writing anymore today.

Day 4
"The residents should run the Code Blues, they're probably better trained than us."
I'll start off with what is good.
We're becoming more adept at treating COVID cases. With a growing census of confirmed COVID positive patients (10 COVID positive in a census of 16 today), we're getting a better sense of how this bastard virus behaves. There are the easy presentations: 40F w/ no significant PMH presenting w/ a 7 day hx of fever, dry cough, fatigue found to have bilateral ground glass infiltrates, elevated LFTs, lymphocytopenia and even fucking hypokalemia on admission. Might as well not even swab to confirm. (But the ED will, oh yes, because now they're swabbing everyone and costing us probably 30-40 PPE kits per admission while we wait the 24 hours for the COVID test to result.)
But then there was the subtle one: 73M w/ multiple comorbidities who was diagnosed with simple CHF exacerbation and sepsis secondary to a UTI (positive UA and UCx) who was tubed on arrival to the ED, admitted straight to the ICU, found to be COVID negative 3/21. He is taken off the vent within 24 hours and discharged to the floors. Because he's COVID negative you see. We treat him with antibiotics, work up his NSTEMI which he managed to throw in during his first day admitted and kind of take mild interest in his recurrent fevers. But he's not coughing and is satting well.
Yesterday, my team and I thought "This guy has a normal white count, elevated LFTs and recurrent fevers. Forget the last test, order a repeat COVID." I do this several hours before speaking with the attending physician. During table rounds, he pointedly asked me if I was aware of the protocols the Command Center had put in place for repeat testing. I say no, as these protocols change every day. (Side note: N95s are now rated for indefinite use, not just 4 days. Hope we didn't toss all those other ones away for no reason!) "Cancel the test, let's get Infectious Disease on board and ask them their input."
I put in for the ID consult, I... "forget" to cancel the COVID repeat or inform the Command Center. Busy day as you saw from yesterday. Comes back positive. We know what this bastard virus looks like.
But we spent 2-3 days in his room without our N95s on.
We would have spent more in there had we not tested.
We're still early, but we know how fast or how slow a case progresses. Our younger patients, the 41F and the 49M might get discharged to home quarantine as early as tomorrow! They're not reliant on supplemental oxygen and haven't had fevers for >24 hours. Our older patients aren't as lucky. No one on our census so far has been intubated. The 73M whose COVID we caught late rapidly progressed to requiring supplemental oxygen and was transferred to the SICU as the last stop before ventilator land.
We're getting better as a team of residents. We're all more than a little scared. I've talked to my favorite resident / current carpool buddy / best second-in-command about my anxiety about this situation. How the adrenaline kicks in when I'm on the floors and makes me feel less afraid and more focused. The crash after work is awful and the anxiety kicking back in takes a drink or two to knock down, but fuck it, I'm better at my work when I'm not terrified.
Oh and the food remains the best part of the day. Thank you, local places that sent great sandwiches for lunch and Greek for dinner. Makes the rest of this easier to write about.
Now on to what's not good.
The hospital is now greater than 2/3rds COVID cases. The ratio of ventilators for COVID patients to non-COVID patients is 7:1.
We're maxed out on the capacity of our Intensivists, intensivist PAs, and Anesthesiologists. The sprawl of the traditional ICU has taken over essentially anything that used to be elevated care and we're still scrambling for beds. A handful of Internal and Family Med Hospitalists are being recruited to act as lieutenant Intensivists overseeing the ventilated. I mean lieutenant in its original definition: "substitute," "deputy," literally "place holder." They report to the Intensivists directly.
At lunch today, it was declared that due to the sheer number of Rapid Responses and Codes, and due to the overwhelming census of the Greater ICU, Residents responding to Rapid Responses are not expected to get any Intensivist backup.
I'm no stranger to Rapid Responses. You hear the call over the PA and are given a floor, you rush upstairs and enter a room blind with someone either choking, or unconscious, or bleeding, or seizing, or with a heart rate incompatible with life. You remain calm, you ask the patient questions while asking the nurses to give a summary of the patient's medical background, current admission issues, latest changes, vitals, labs, imaging. Scary, but doable.
During the meeting, the Medical Director said the Hospitalists would be asked to run Code Blues. The Hospitalists balked.
See, Intensivists ran every single Code Blue in the hospital before now. One Hospitalist said, "We haven't run a Code since residency! The residents should run the Code Blues, they're probably better trained than us." The room of a couple dozen full-blown-attending Hospitalists nodded in agreement. I was the only resident there, too stunned to speak up. No final decision was made.
I know the timing of Epi pushes and ACLS algorithms enough that a couple days' review would cement it pretty well. But the actual pressure of making the call for a defibrillation or a push of atropine or adenosine is so beyond what I'm emotionally prepared for.
CPR is a violent, ugly thing with a fatality rate that is 100% for COVID patients with lungs too full of fluid for their heart pumping to matter. Even if I were to run everything perfectly, the person is still going to die. Let alone if I make the wrong call.
I've come to terms with the idea that I'm going to see COVID patients die under my care a whole fucking lot.
I don't want to be forced to watch them die under my care from three feet away while I make a series of life or death decisions that are guaranteed to be utterly pointless.


Day 5
"If you're going to stroll around here, you're going to need full PPE"
"Usually takes about 20 minutes, then everyone's arms get tired"
If this hospital is at war, it's ceding territory at an alarming rate.
Here's the layout of the field: we've got medsurg wings on the cardinal points of the compass (except 2SW for some reason) in a somewhat random pattern from first floor to fifth: 1N, 2S, 2SW, 3N, 3E, 5E, 5S. The ICU, CCU, CICU, and SICU are floating around the periphery of the 3rd floor.
By the time I started Day 1, 2SW and 5E were already on lockdown and designated as COVID territory. My team alone had a total of two pending and one confirmed COVID cases.
By Day 2, the CICU became a conflict zone and joined 2S and 5E. 5 COVIDS or pendings.
By Day 3, my team had pending tests in 5S as well. 6 COVIDs or pendings.
By Day 4, the 5th and 2nd floors were entirely given over to COVID. 3E still had some non-COVID evacuees waiting to be transferred to the last bastions of 1N and 3N. Everything ending with -CU is overrun by this point.
It's Day 5. My census stands at 15, of which 9 are COVID positive. There's talk of clearing out 1N sooner or later even.
The hospital is fairing less well: of the 170 or so inpatients (not counting the 25 or so Greater ICU COVID positive people on vents), 100 are COVID positive, and a third more have pending tests.

So those are the numbers. Actually walking the halls puts the change from Day 1 to Day 5 in starker contrast.
The amount of PPE used per nurse or CNA has steadily increased. On any floor (except the Last Bastion wings), if you squint your eyes all you can see is uniform green paper scrubs with blue hairnets and and blue paper booties and blue paper masks +/- an N95 underneath. If you look further down the hall you'll see a spray of yellow as one of them gowns up to enter a patient's room. (The nurses have been using Sharpies to write their names on the paper gowns so people can tell each other apart.)
Maybe you'll spot a Resident in a long white coat rush by.
And by every single door on wheeled tables usually topped with hospital food are boxes and boxes of blue gloves and yellow gowns. Might be my imagination, but the boxes of face masks are disconcertingly not as ubiquitous.
The Greater ICU is less colorful. Just window after window of people on vents. Walk the whole length of it and count maybe one person who's conscious. Most don't look like our usual ICU clientele of the cachectic elderly. These are mostly men (my imagination?) ranging from their 50-70s.
I made the mistake of asking who the youngest intubated COVID patient on the unit was.
Younger than me.
So we finish at the ED. It's not chaotic like a Saturday night. Sure there are a few beds in the hallways, but that's nothing new. I walked the length of it too. Some people on oxygen here and there, wider variety of ages.
Lots of people getting gowned up to enter rooms though. And I know we're supposed to take them off at the door of the patient's room, why are people walking around-
"HEY! If you're going to stroll around here, you're going to need full PPE. With an N95 on!"
The ED is now considered COVID home territory.

I don't feel like a soldier. I don't feel brave for showing up to my job. I most certainly don't feel like a hero.
I feel like the tide came in way too fast and now I'm staring at waves from below.


Day 6
"There's another Anesthesia Stat. Don't know where we're gonna put that one."
55M with PMH of uncontrolled DM2, HTN, CKD3. Admitted 5 days ago for fever, SoB, dry cough, you get it. COVID positive on Day 1. Went to a COVID medsurg floor, experienced worsening hypoxia on NC, and started on nonrebreather. By Day 5, transferred to the newest territory grab of the Greater ICU, the Post-Anesthesia Care Unit - the PACU. We're not doing surgeries anymore, so no anesthesia, so that's free real estate to park the intubated.
One other thing. The PACU was never meant for anything longer than a few hours' stay and has only drapes between beds. No doors or walls means this is COVID home turf. You have to completely PPE up to even enter the unit.
This newest long walk of ventilated COVID patients is kept alive by 2nd string equipment. No modern touch screens, no real time graphs, just an aged-beige box with some dials and digital-clock-red settings. It does the same job - you can set the PEEP, FiO2, RR, AC/PSV just as precisely as the modern machines.
Even the third tier stuff never intended to serve as ventilation for the 10-14 days of ventilation COVID patients may require works well. These are the surgical ventilators the anesthesiologists used to use back when we did surgeries. They have been liberated to serve the Greater ICU. We've even drafted the ad hoc ventilators of the local community of outpatient docs to act as reserves.
Code Blue called on the 55M gentleman above. The team rushes up and I am deeply relieved that it's not a Code I have to run. By the time we get our PPE on (takes about 3 minutes), he's already being intubated. No chest compressions required. We put in some orders, we watch the Veteran Attendings tube their first patient of the day. It is only about 8AM.
"Anesthesia Stat to the ED" heard on the overhead PA means someone is getting intubated essentially right after they enter the door. The Intensivist sighs and wonders out loud where they're going to place this next patient on a vent.
The Greater ICU is quickly becoming The Empire of the ICU as more unused departments get swallowed up by the need to house the intubated.
...
I try to comfort myself with knowing I'm still living in the good days, relatively speaking.
No one on the hospital staff is sick. No one on my team or Residency program is sick. I'm not sick. We still have beds and ventilators, at least for the time being.
We've still got a week and a half for this to reach its peak.

You're a reasonably healthy guy in your mid 50s.
Sure, you had a health scare when you were in your mid 30s, a pretty big scare come to think of it. You had some chest pain whenever you worked too hard and went to a heart doctor and after a bunch of tests wound up getting some kind of mesh tube in your heart. Or something. Doesn't matter. You see your heart doctor every year and he tells you you're fine. Maybe lose a couple pounds. Here's a pill you should take for your blood pressure. Maybe you know the name of it, maybe you don't. But you still see your heart doctor, even two decades later, because you want to be healthy.
Your other doctor worries about your sugars. He tells you to take a different pill. Metformin. You know that one's name. Your other doctor also tells you to lose some weight. And he says he doesn't like how high this blood test number is. But you feel fine. It doesn't hurt like the chest pain you had.
Maybe you work at a gas station. Maybe you're a public notary, doesn't matter. You're definitely blue collar. Hair's thinning and mostly grey, you keep it buzzed pretty close to the scalp. You haven't shaven for the past week or so it seems, because you got sick.
You come down with the flu. Fevers that leave you sweating and chills that put you under the extra blankets you keep on the top shelf of your closet. You don't take a temperature though. You just feel awful. And the cough keeps you up at night. You're not coughing up any goo though, so that's good. Right?
You put up with it for a week. The fevers aren't going away. What's more worrying is that it's getting harder to breathe. Not the kind of hard to breathe when you had your heart issue, no, this is taking the wind from you when you walk the length of your room to go take a wiz. So you overcome your stubbornness and go to an Urgent Care.
This new doctor says he doesn't like the sound of your lungs and orders a chest Xray. Your new doctor says you have pneumonia and gives you two more pills to take. Antibiotics. They'll help you start breathing better again.
But you don't start breathing better. And the fevers only go away for a little when you take Tylenol. And you're having to breathe faster now even in bed. You wait three more days, taking the antibiotics which were supposed to fix you, until you're scared enough to head to the Emergency Room. Because you can't breathe.
The nurses put some tubing under your nose and now you don't have to breathe so hard. You're seen by yet another new doctor in the afternoon. He's wearing a lot of stuff your other doctors never wore. It's hard to hear him as he speaks through two masks. He probably says something about that virus that's going around. The COVID virus. And you're shocked because you thought it was the flu, and you haven't been around any sick people. You don't know where you got it from.
Four hours later a different doctor comes by (also wearing a lot of masks and a yellow dress) and says you're heading upstairs. He asks you even more questions. By this time, you had to switch to a face mask to get enough oxygen to breathe ok.
You spend the night in the hospital. You're woken up at 11PM, 1AM, 2AM, and 5AM for a nurse to come take your vitals. If you take your mask off for even a minute, you feel like you've just run up 2 flights of stairs.
Your newest doctors (there's a few of them) wake you up around 8AM. They listen to your lungs, look at the monitor next to your bed that beeps sometimes, and frown. You can tell even under the masks. They say you're going to get different pills. One of them isn't usually used to treat the COVID, but you're desperate to breathe and you agree to it.
Your nurse keeps coming into your room to check your monitor a few times in an hour. You're breathing just as fast as you were at home, even with the mask of oxygen on.
Suddenly there's a lot of talk outside your room. Maybe you can make it out over the sound of the whooshing air into the mask and your own breathing, maybe not. Doesn't matter.
If you were listening, you'd hear an anesthesiologist asking why he was called stat to the room when a decision hasn't been made yet to intubate or not. (Intubate. Do you know what that word means?) You hear a different doctor ask why they weren't called earlier to first evaluate the patient before the anesthesiologist was called. After a minute or two you see a tall doctor (you've lost track of how many new doctors you've seen) enter your room, again with the masks, and the yellow dress.
Things start to move faster now.
He speaks quickly but seemingly without worry in his voice. "How are you feeling?" (Did he even pause to introduce himself? You can't remember.) You answer in clipped words. "It's not hard to breathe," you say, "but I just can't catch my breath."
He explains that your oxygen is too low despite the mask. And he says the only way to help you keep breathing is to stick a plastic tube down your throat and hook you up to a machine. He explains you'll be asleep while it's in. You agree, because why the hell wouldn't you?
He exits just as quickly as he came in. Again, if you're listening closely, outside the door you hear him say to some people you can't see, "We don't need to intubate in the room, we've got a good five or ten minutes before he goes south. Get him to the pack you."
You probably didn't hear that last thing right.
You're rolled out of your room in your stretcher to an elevator. You go up and are wheeled into a busy room of lines with beds of other people with tubes down their throats, with only drapes to separate them. You're pushed past dozens of people in yellow dresses and masks and plastic windshields on their face. There's more of those same dings and bells you heard from your own monitor, but they're all over the room echoing off the floors and walls and ceiling.
Another doctor says you're going to go to sleep. You look scared. You don't ask any questions, you just keep breathing. The monitor behind you keeps dinging.
You don't even realize they pushed the medicine into your veins in the two seconds it takes for you to stop feeling or hearing anything.

Maybe you remember being in a fog as the medicine wore off a little. Maybe. You choke on the thing in your throat. Your eyes well up. Then you go back to sleep less than a minute later when you're given more medicine. You hope you don't remember that.
Now you're wherever we go when we sleep.
You hope you wake up.
 
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Part 4

Day 8
"A beautiful day in hell"

The 88F who signed the DNI/DNR was transferred from our service to a sister service also staffed with Residents a few days ago. The hand over occurred for no reason other than she was roomed in a wing that the COVID team recently took over wholesale. My team is no longer in charge of her case. But I've been chart-stalking her vitals and prognosis regardless because she's still my patient.
And the prognosis is not good. Even on a 100% nonrebreather, her sats are in the mid 80s. Without the DNI, she would have been on a ventilator a day or two ago. She's tachypneic, taking a breath every other second or so. Palliative care has been consulted and she's been placed on ever increasing amounts of morphine to help curb her air hunger. As of this afternoon, she's been placed on a morphine drip. She's still wide awake, but her prognosis is dire.
That's a word we get to use in charts. Dire. Seems almost melodramatic.
I decide to use some of the free time I have on this puddle-grey afternoon to leave my call room bunker and go visit her. I make a brief stop to get an update from her new team. It's as bad as I thought. I ask if she's going to make it through the night. Probably. Maybe not tomorrow night though.
I put on the PPE including my shiny new and properly fitted N95 I picked up that morning, and enter the room. I make a point to avoid reading the Fox News's chyron on the room's TV. We make small talk about her lemon ice cup. She likes it, I tell her I like them too and have stolen a fair number of them from the floor's patient fridge over the years.
She knows something is up. She asks why I'm checking in on her, and I can see her get a little out of breath taking the mask off for even a few seconds then saying one sentence. I say I don't like the direction her oxygenation is going, and I'm concerned.
"So I'm losing my battle?"
Really starting to hate that metaphor.
"This comes as a surprise."
She met with our Palliative care team 2 days prior and comfort care was started.
She asks flat out what her prognosis is.
Once again, because I am an idiot, I tell her the truth.
I say that she might be seeing the end of her life sooner rather than later. Maybe less than 1 week at the rate things are going. I avoid using the word dire. When she asks if she's dying, I say unfortunately, yes.
"So you transfer me to another doctor and I'm dying. Your team must feel like failures."
Not a word of that is misquoted or taken out of context.

Spotted a new homemade sign right below the hospital's entrance marker as you drive in. Block letters on white plywood:
YOU ALL
R
HEROES



Day 9
"You want to push another epi?" "Sure, why not."

Overhead on the hospital PA: "As you know, today is National Doctor's Day. Let's conclude this quiet moment by standing where you are and applauding our heroic physicians."
As that played, half a dozen nurses and I were frantically getting into our PPEs outside a suspected COVID room to rush into a Code Blue.
Surprisingly, no one stopped to applaud.
Inside, the calming voice was drowned out by the hiss of a nonrebreather, the labored expiratory moans of the patient, and the warning dings of the bedside monitor. The bedside monitor was not happy that the patient's heart rate was somewhere in the high 160s and was letting the room know its opinion on the matter.
Narrow complex ventricular tachycardia. But the patient isn't hypotensive or otherwise unstable. You don't lay on the paddles of a defibrillator for that.
"You're going to feel a little funny for a second," is what the nurse says to reassure the patient. What she really meant was, "We're going to stop your heart for a second or two to reset your circuit breaker, so if it feels like you're dying briefly, it's because you are." The nurse draws up some adenosine, the other MD in the room slams the bolus into the patient's veins, and everybody gets to watch the monitor flatline for a held breath before a heart rate returns. Takes two boluses for it to take.
Problem solved.
For 73 minutes.
Nothing was playing overhead for the second Code Blue. Thankfully, an intensivist was already inside running the show. I guess the Residents haven't been left out to fend for ourselves yet. This time around the bedside monitor was simply furious that the patient stopped breathing.
Pulseless electrical activity, PEA. The heart's wires are firing but the pump isn't working. You don't lay on the paddles of a defibrillator for that either.
Hollywood has lied to you your whole life.
"Do you think we're going to be able to resuscitate him?" "He's full Code." "But do you think we're going to be able to resuscitate him?" "No, but…" "Right, so it doesn't matter. We're running the Code."
I get my exercise for the day by pressing on the patient's chest for a couple minutes.
"I don't really want to intubate him." The patient gets intubated anyway.
The respiratory tech on my right (I think it's the RT, at least, everyone looks the same unders layers of PPE) gets a small spray of pink frothy fluid on her gown. Thank Christ for PPE.
A few people cycle through pushing on the patient's chest. We haven't felt a pulse since the Code began.
"How long has it been?" I suspect there's a countdown timer in the intensivist's brain that's ticking towards an alarm labeled Ok, We Tried.
More compressions. Pretty sure I feel a rib break under my palms. That sensation never ceases to make me wince.
Another epi. Still no pulse.
The Doppler to check for a pulse is silent.
The timer goes off.
"That's it."
Time of death called.

Feels like COVID is eroding the edges off everyone's soul in the hospital.
The initial novelty of sharp fear and apprehension standing outside COVID rooms before entering is giving way to a constant background dull dread as we gown up for the tenth or twentieth time that day.
I see my incredibly sharp attending boss distracted, needing to be reminded two or three times whose room he's about to enter.
The lack of success in curing our patients is also taking its toll. "Successes" have mostly been defined as sending a patient home with personal oxygen tanks and explicit instructions on when to return if they get worse. We've had some milder cases that got sent home without oxygen, but they seem fewer than the number we send to get tubed.
I feel very bitter about this. It makes the sign out front, a sign that expresses nothing but pure gratitude and love, seem somehow mocking.


Day 10
"How many for you?" "Two." "Of twelve? Not so bad."

88F w/PMH of HTN, prediabetes, Afib (on Coumadin) presented w/ a 3 day hx of progressive SoB, cough and subjective fevers. Found to be COVID-19 positive. Hospital course significant for clinical deterioration during stay requiring supplemental O2 via NRB. Repeat CXR 3/29/20 showed interval development of diffuse increased interstitial markings concerning for multifocal B/L PNA. Pt started on comfort measures but was found to be…

Let's start over.
There once was a woman who lived a really long time. Let's call her Ethel; she looks like an Ethel.
Like any octogenarian, Ethel had a few health issues, for which she took exactly seven pills each morning. It sounds like she lived a full life. We only really know that she was a NON-SMOKER and LIVES AT HOME. No one wrote down anything more than that in the box that's supposed to summarize Ethel's social life. She had a husband who was her emergency contact. There's no box to check if they loved one another, but it's probably a given that this theoretical box would house a neat little checkmark inside. She had at least one daughter, whose name probably could be found in a chart under "Most Favorite Person in the World."
Unlike other octogenarians, Ethel never visited the hospital. She saw doctors, sure (that was the price of growing old) but as far back as the computer can look, there's no record of her ever setting foot inside the Emergency Room, up until ten days ago at least.
Ten days ago she came to the hospital because it was getting harder to breathe. She also had a fever and her muscles were always sore, but it was the huffing and puffing that scared her enough to head in. She got some oxygen and was given a room inside the hospital all to herself. She got that room because she had COVID – that virus which was causing the whole world to go crazy and her neighborhood to shut down. But the nurses were kind and the food wasn't so bad. The oxygen helped her breathe. She was getting those drugs the President said would cure COVID. She probably liked the President. She sure liked to watch the News on TV.
On her third day in the hospital, a doctor came by and explained that since she needs a mask to breathe, if things got worse, the next step would have to be putting her to sleep and hooking her up to machines to keep her alive. Ethel didn't want that. But her Most Favorite Person in the World would want her to FIGHT, so she reluctantly said she would be ok with a plastic tube down her throat. But the doctor said that this was Ethel's choice, not her daughter's, and it was an important one. He left the room so she could decide what to do.
The form she signed was bright pink. It had boxes on it that housed neat little checkmarks next to DO NOT REVIVE and DO NOT INTUBATE.
Ethel continued to take her medications and continued to breathe with a mask. Sometimes the very nice nurses would tell her to lie on her belly because it would help her breathe better. It was getting harder to breathe, even with the mask. Ethel thought the medications were making it harder to breathe, but believed once she completed the five days, she would start feeling better and could go home.
Those five days came and went. She wasn't feeling better and could not go home. Another doctor came by and explained that her specialty was helping people feel better towards the end of their lives (which was only a possibility in her case, not something written in stone.) Ethel liked the morphine this other doctor gave her because it made it easier to breathe. Ethel did not like the anxiety pills this other doctor gave her because they made her drowsy.
One day the same doctor she saw right before signing the bright pink form came to visit her again. He said she was going to die. Ethel was very angry at this because she thought she was doing better. She said some things which in the bigger scheme of things aren't that important. But really she just wanted the doctor to call her family to tell them what was going on.
Ethel got more and more morphine. She kept asking for it so often that the nice nurses put a machine in her room that gave her morphine around the clock.
Ethel couldn't or maybe didn't want to answer the doctor's questions anymore.
Ethel was very tired during the day, so she mostly slept.
Ethel went to sleep one afternoon and didn't wake up.


227 of 257 patients in the hospital are COVID positive. 41 COVIDS on ventilators. The ICU has expanded to the Cath lab. 1N and 3N have fallen, they're both COVID units now. I don't know how many ventilators we have left.
The passing of "Ethel" today marks the first patient formerly under my team's care to be killed by COVID.
It's so much easier to write fiction than it is to write about how angry and sorry I feel.
I open up my email and the first one is titled "Heroes." Overhead PA propaganda announcements play Here Comes the Sun and say "Not all superheros wear capes, some wear scrubs and gowns" and I want to pound my desk and go for a walk anywhere outside of these walls without a goddamn mask on my face.
I don't want to humanize my patients more by imagining their lives outside their rooms back when they were healthy.
I don't want to do the hard, right thing and be honest and get hurt.
I don't want to see my patients be put on ventilators and/or die.
But I will. I have to.
 


Glad to see the ultratwat Peston exposed.


Who the hell is this guy.. He even tries to argue with the other guy! What he says is indeed dangerous. People could end up causing harm or death to others because they think they don't have the virus and can't give it to someone else. "I just tested myself, I don't have the virus, so we're safe"... How is a "journalist" covering this not able to grasp the difference between antibodies and viruses, it's crazy.


Here's something new I learned today:

abV81M1.png


With that said, I guess a mask is still better than none (if you can avoid touching it with your hands) if the virus is contained in a fluid (?).
 
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If the leading virus expert in South Korea is saying we should all be wearing masks, we should be wearing masks. I'd take his advice over the WHO any day. Also it isn't really true to say a 'defective' mask isn't worth wearing (well, unless it has a golf ball sized hole in it) as research shows even wearing a regular scarf over your face, can reduce the risk by 49%.
 
So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.
No, if you read it, the obvious conclusion is that they don't want the bad press of selling sub quality equipment. This appears to be drawn up so as to mitigate the chances of that happening.
It also states that the equipment sent must comply with the purchasing countries regs.
Seems like QC to me
 
Similar to New York State / New York City, over 80% of our cases are centered around the Detroit area which accounts for less than half the state's population.

Sad to see that our efforts to close schools and social distance aren't having much of an effect.

It sucks for the metro area; every day I check and am relieved to see that my county isn't seeing much expansion in our number of cases. One more reason I'm glad I moved from the East side!

You are arguing with an AEN pusher.

Alternative Education Needs? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Well....at least we are past the point of sugar coating anything?

I'm of a mind that sugar coating in these types of situations is infinitely better than the alternative; people tend to behave terribly in crisis situations when fears are allowed to foment unchecked. That's when the worst facet of humanity gets shown in the mob.

It seems like they are pulling military assets close to the country. The drug trafficking sounds more like an excuse to have our navy close to home and deployed.

That's a good observation, IMO. I'd certainly be doing that, especially to try and keep all of the naval crews from getting sick all at the same time (Navy is gonna get slammed with this).

Some of you have low standards

True. I think most men are kinda designed to, though? Any port in a storm...


The fucking XR terrorists are readying themselves to cause trouble, surprise surprise. FFS even ISIS decided to stop being terrorist shits during this.

No kidding; you can even see it from some of the posters on this very site who've been shitting up threads with almost word for word snippets from that article. Lol

You mean this is the real Alien invasion, where the world needs to put there tribal culture aside and start seeing the whole world as part of the human race, instead of nations trying to one up each other...?

if only we would be that lucky.. but i have my doubts.. there will always be psychopaths, trying to gain power over others and exploiting the situation..

It is and is gonna be a political ammunition bonanza for the current crop of politicians the world over. Hold onto your butts for the "You killed citizens in the crisis!" ads.

So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.

China continues to stay classy. :messenger_astonished:
 
So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.

The faulty equipment that Spain and the Netherlands received was from an unlicensed medical products company. The Chinese government has already said and emphasized this several times last week. Of course, you cannot read that in most media when it comes to China or Russia. What is evil is and remains evil forever and what must not be, must not be.

This is just like with fake Rolex watches or fake handbags. This may all be great and nice if you can't afford the original, but with medical products it's a whole different level.
 
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So now China is banning the export of "Unlicensed" PPE such as face masks, so now the west has even less chance of getting much needed supplies.


No fucking problem to have Chinese people clearing the shelves of retail outlets in the west of equipment and importing it to China though!

Cunts, absolute cunts.
Probably related to the fact that both Spain and the Ukraine bought hundreds of thousands of defective tests from a Chinese supplier (from a supplier that did not have state approval). Maybe they want to avoid a similar situation with PPE.
 
The faulty equipment that Spain and the Netherlands received was from an unlicensed medical products company. The Chinese government has already said and emphasized this several times last week. Of course, you cannot read that in most media when it comes to China or Russia. What is evil is and remains evil forever and what must not be, must not be.

This is just like with fake Rolex watches or fake handbags. This may all be great and nice if you can't afford the original, but with medical products it's a whole different level.
Probably related to the fact that both Spain and the Ukraine bought hundreds of thousands of defective tests from a Chinese supplier (from a supplier that did not have state approval). Maybe they want to avoid a similar situation with PPE.
Take it easy, you guys. Too much logic and not enough HOO-RAs. Get with your scheduled program.
 

Huge article by Nature today.

SARS-Cov-2 has 1000x more virus peak density near your respiratory system than SARS for an infected individual, and this peak often appears BEFORE any symptoms.

This thing is far too sophisticated for my liking. Uncomfortably so.
 
if this shit last long enough to ruin economy etc, do you think people are gonna start treating chinese people like they were treating islamic people after the twin tower attack?
here in sicily a lot of chinese places closed for fear of retaliation from italian citizen many weeks ago...and we are not even near the peak of this virus...
 
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if this shit last long enough to ruin economy etc, do you think people are gonna start treating chinese people like they were treating islamic people after the twin tower attack?
here in sicily a lot of chinese places closed for fear of retaliation from italian citizen many weeks ago...and we are not even near the peak of this virus...


It has already started
 
Dr. Campbell on some study with good news?



Thanks for posting this. I actually spoke with my wife about the appalling and frightening ~10% (!) death rate in Italy yesterday, and we both kinda looked at each other and shuddered.. So yes the numbers presented in the video is indeed encouraging albeit still by all means tragic.
 
if this shit last long enough to ruin economy etc, do you think people are gonna start treating chinese people like they were treating islamic people after the twin tower attack?
here in sicily a lot of chinese places closed for fear of retaliation from italian citizen many weeks ago...and we are not even near the peak of this virus...
I doubt it. There will be some idiots acting irrationally, but most people have issues with the Chinese government and not the people.
 

It has already started
I doubt it. There will be some idiots acting irrationally, but most people have issues with the Chinese government and not the people.
well then...

kacho, you really understimate how ignorant\stupid\desperate people can be in situation like this, there is no logic with hate feelings when you lose both your home and all your money.
 
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kacho, you really understimate how ignorant\stupid\desperate people can be in situation like this, there is no logic with hate feelings when you lose both your home and all your money.
Feel free to quote me in a few weeks if that starts becoming the norm, but I seriously doubt that happens.
 
kacho, you really understimate how ignorant\stupid\desperate people can be in situation like this, there is no logic with hate feelings when you lose both your home and all your money.

If you feel hatred in this situation, then you generally have a problem with yourself. I don't want to drift too much into the psychological aspect, but hate, with very few exceptions, always has its source in yourself.
 
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