iHaunter
Member
Seriously Sony, how hard can it be:
Their engineers are a lot smarter than you.
And myself for that matter, so let's agree that they know what they're doing yes?
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Sony patent hints at 3D stacked chips with dual heatsink
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
Their engineers are a lot smarter than you.
And myself for that matter, so let's agree that they know what they're doing yes?
longdi
Banned
Painted it to better see what is what.
green - PCB
orange - heatsink/heatpipes
blue - main chip with housing
Basically chip is placed not on PCB but on heatplate that heatplate has miniheatpipes coming throught it on other side of pcb where lies heatsink with fins. center of chip is used to cool via heatplate and PCI lanes go around the rim of chip. Consoles don't need a lot of PCI lanes so it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of underside is without PCI lanes unlike something like PC chip. Then there is other heatsink which lies on top of housing with paste in traditional way.
neat design, but i doubt it would poliferate to PC as PC chips have massive amount of PCI lanes and there is simply no space for heatplate. With such setup you can cool chip from two sides which is especially important for 3D stacked chips.
I believe PS5 will have the same PCI lanes as Ryzen 3. 16 to gpu, 4 to the integrated ssd and 4 to the rest+ssd expansion.
Btw is 1 also the heatsink? Dont seem like it. The heatsink is just 21. Not sure it is enough though.
If the other chips are closer to the main chip the data will be closer to the chip & use less power to move the data around & you will get better performance.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
You might need to be put through a table exactly like that gif for not knowing who they are.
Dontero
Banned
It is clearly custom chip. Which means they can play with PCI lanes as much as they want and you shouldn't use Ryzen3 as base.
Yes 1 is heatsink but general. MEaning it could be heatsink with fan or some other design but point is that it will be cooling chip from top.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Sony is about winning generations.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
That thing must be running hot as hell on the devkit front!
Agnostic2020
Member
From patent:
" 1, another heat dissipation device may be arranged on the upper surface of the integrated circuit device 5. By doing so, two heat dissipation devices are provided in the integrated circuit device 5, so that the cooling performance can be improved."
Agnostic2020
Member
Great Post. Maybe O onQ123 can add it to op ?Painted it to better see what is what.
green - PCB
orange - heatsink/heatpipes
blue - main chip with housing
Basically chip is placed not on PCB but on heatplate that heatplate has miniheatpipes coming throught it on other side of pcb where lies heatsink with fins. center of chip is used to cool via heatplate and PCI lanes go around the rim of chip. Consoles don't need a lot of PCI lanes so it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of underside is without PCI lanes unlike something like PC chip. Then there is other heatsink which lies on top of housing with paste in traditional way.
neat design, but i doubt it would poliferate to PC as PC chips have massive amount of PCI lanes and there is simply no space for heatplate. With such setup you can cool chip from two sides which is especially important for 3D stacked chips.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Just waiting for them to show the box and tell us the price
If this is what lets them run the console clocked so high and it remains quiet even at max load, thats awesome
If this is what lets them run the console clocked so high and it remains quiet even at max load, thats awesome
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Great Hair
Banned
The image is most likely not to scale 1:1, but based on this image the PS5 is going to be a slim console, where only the BDrom will eat up most of the thinkness.
Add a fan 25mm on top of the heatsink and it seems well below, within the 10cm mark? A similar approach like with the PS2 case. Rather small upper part with a fat booty due heatsink, fan and 4K Drive.
LostDonkey
Member
JUST SHOW ME YOUR BOX YOU DIRTY BITCH!!!!
From the patent it's another part of the console like the wifi chip & so on that can be placed there like a heatsink but it can also be another heatsink in that place for better cooling
LordKasual
Banned
oh my good lord you just brought me back
"all kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinds"
geordiemp
Member
At least we are not asking your engineering opinion then.
MasterCornholio
Member
Just going to pretend I understand how impressive that is
Now that's interesting.
Painted it to better see what is what.
green - PCB
orange - heatsink/heatpipes
blue - main chip with housing
Basically chip is placed not on PCB but on heatplate that heatplate has miniheatpipes coming throught it on other side of pcb where lies heatsink with fins. center of chip is used to cool via heatplate and PCI lanes go around the rim of chip. Consoles don't need a lot of PCI lanes so it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of underside is without PCI lanes unlike something like PC chip. Then there is other heatsink which lies on top of housing with paste in traditional way.
neat design, but i doubt it would poliferate to PC as PC chips have massive amount of PCI lanes and there is simply no space for heatplate. With such setup you can cool chip from two sides which is especially important for 3D stacked chips.
Nice but you should probably use the updated image where it's a 9 instead of 1 , it's basically another board with the Wifi chip & SSD on it & able to have another heatsink on top of it
Dontero
Banned
It is not 1:1, just general design. I also wouldn't say that it will be slim console based on that patent. To me it screams that they have issues with managing heat from their highly clocked chip and they had to get innovative to cool chip from both sides not just like in tradition from one side.
AMD doesn't have right now any GPU that runs above 2Ghz and those who run near 2Ghz have heatsinks nearly as big as half of PS4 size. If anything it says that console will be thick. Both sides cooling definitely is neat design and pretty innovative but generally speaking if you look at something like SEX there isn't any free space and yet it is pretty big.
I wouldn't be shocked if PS5 will be the size of SEX volume wise.
That is just general patent not strict design. That upper board is basically whatever to have context for heat-sink design. For 100% there will be heatsink on top of that chip because otherwise using heatsink on other side of PSB wouldn't make any sense. Heatsink on other side of PCB also won't be able to cool properly whole chip which means that heatisink on top of chip will be bigger than that on other side of PCB. Thus why i didn't use 9 as cue for orange block on top of chip.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Their engineers are a lot smarter than you.
And my for that matter, so let's agree that they know what they're doing yes?
If a more traditional solution met their goals then I don't see why they would waste R@D to make something that's not needed.
Once they open up the system all shall be answered.
Dontero
Banned
You don't get things slimmer by adding second cooler on other side of PCB. It is the opposite. Also you don't use secondary cooler if you really don't need it. Which means chips is running hot and they had to get creative to cool it.
Imho key here is that they will be using 3D stacking. 3D chips should be way harder to cool as you have stacked furnaces generating heat instead of one.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Very intrigued by this after reading up on it. I'm loving the customization and tech put into the PS5 so far that we've seen. I eagerly await breakdown videos too so better tech minds than myself can really dig in and show us what we've got in the PS5,
Exciting times.
Exciting times.
Handy Fake
Member
We Sony fans like to refer to the above maneuver as a "pirouette". We're fancy.
Shmunter
Member
I say, get me out of these wet clothes and into a dry Martini.
ToxicPhantom
Member
Awesome! I need another heater in the house. Thanks Sony!
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
There is a drawing of it in the patent, but is is a designer drawing, so not clear for the most of us.No picture in the patent?
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
The chip is directly soldered to the PCB. BGA with center land for heat dissipation.Painted it to better see what is what.
green - PCB
orange - heatsink/heatpipes
blue - main chip with housing
Basically chip is placed not on PCB but on heatplate that heatplate has miniheatpipes coming throught it on other side of pcb where lies heatsink with fins. center of chip is used to cool via heatplate and PCI lanes go around the rim of chip. Consoles don't need a lot of PCI lanes so it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of underside is without PCI lanes unlike something like PC chip. Then there is other heatsink which lies on top of housing with paste in traditional way.
neat design, but i doubt it would poliferate to PC as PC chips have massive amount of PCI lanes and there is simply no space for heatplate. With such setup you can cool chip from two sides which is especially important for 3D stacked chips.
Dontero
Banned
Yes and no. It is soldnered at outer rims to PCB but central part is soldnered to heatplate. Otherwise heatpipes wouldn't work correctly.
Because it runs hot.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
is it running to hot that traditional cooling methods won't work?
Die Namek Ability
Member
Maybe it does or maybe Cerny wanted have heat controlled by voltage and this was the best way to accommodate that? I really dont know or have insight im just speculating.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Just seems a bit strange, wonder if it will be super quiet this way as we know ps4 was super loud at times
Agnostic2020
Member
Yea ps5
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why don't you go build a new console and sell it? Since you're so smart.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Is there any indication that this is for PlayStation?
I'm big into Sony mirrorless cameras, and they have been doing a lot of stacked CMOS sensor+processor chips since around 2017. Heat dissipation is a big problem in mirrorless cameras with typically smaller bodies than DSLRs, so I have a feeling this might be more for that kind of use case.
I'm big into Sony mirrorless cameras, and they have been doing a lot of stacked CMOS sensor+processor chips since around 2017. Heat dissipation is a big problem in mirrorless cameras with typically smaller bodies than DSLRs, so I have a feeling this might be more for that kind of use case.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Painted it to better see what is what.
green - PCB
orange - heatsink/heatpipes
blue - main chip with housing
Basically chip is placed not on PCB but on heatplate that heatplate has miniheatpipes coming throught it on other side of pcb where lies heatsink with fins. center of chip is used to cool via heatplate and PCI lanes go around the rim of chip. Consoles don't need a lot of PCI lanes so it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of underside is without PCI lanes unlike something like PC chip. Then there is other heatsink which lies on top of housing with paste in traditional way.
neat design, but i doubt it would poliferate to PC as PC chips have massive amount of PCI lanes and there is simply no space for heatplate. With such setup you can cool chip from two sides which is especially important for 3D stacked chips.
Thank you for this colored version.
Do you want traditional cooling methods? If so why?
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Insane Metal
Gold Member
Screw 12TF, gimme dual heatsink tech babyyy
Virex
Banned
Are you retarded?
Oddvintagechap
Banned
He mentions that the consoles will probably use 3D stacking at 12:32.
With those clocks speeds PS5 is pushing, along with 3D stacking, Sony is making something exotic.
Ar¢tos
Member
If humanity wasn't constantly reinventing and improving things we would still be riding horses instead of driving cars. Is that what you want?
What's wrong with having new ideas?
Registering a patent doesn't mean it will ever be used or where it will be used, this might not be for a console, Sony makes a lot of other devices.
Dontero
Banned
If anything it is cache and I/O. Cache is one of the things that doesn't want to easily scale down. So probably they will use main chip at 7nm with cpu and gpu and separate chip maybe at 12nm with I/O and cache
phil_t98
#SonyToo
well it would be cheaper to be traditional wouldn't it