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Anybody know the “ins and outs” of a ketogenic diet?

Cutty Flam

Banned
I’m going to go for it. Yesterday and today, carbs have been limited pretty severely. Not gonna lie, I’m pretty damn hungry right now, despite eating adequate protein and I’m pretty sure I got enough fat...but probably will have to eat a bit more from now on

Feels pretty good, but I’ll definitely need to eat more berries and greens soon

I’m kind of excited about the transition if I can make it last. It’s for the best, kind of an extreme way of eating but I’ve gone to extreme measures before regarding dietary choices. I just hope I can find the right variation for me ratively quickly so I don’t have to experience the “keto flu” as it’s been called

Would appreciate any help or advice a lot bros! Thank you for your time
 

Jooxed

Gold Member
Steak and eggs, high fats avocados stay away from sugary fruits and carbohydrate vegetables. Though be careful drastically switching your diet right now it could mess with your immune system.

Might be better to start slow and limit portions and go on walks. When I started losing weight just eating smaller portions did wonders for me.
 

Cutty Flam

Banned
Steak and eggs, high fats avocados stay away from sugary fruits and carbohydrate vegetables. Though be careful drastically switching your diet right now it could mess with your immune system.

Might be better to start slow and limit portions and go on walks. When I started losing weight just eating smaller portions did wonders for me.
Good looking out man. This is definitely not the time to be having a weak immune system at all. I think I’ll have some berries tmrw, and I definitely need to eat more greens before magnesium levels get too low

I think it’s time though. I’m 28, and although fairly healthy, all the carbs during previous years have probably taken their toll by now. It’s so much easier to work out without carbs weighing you down all the time. I swear, it was so difficult to judge when to workout because they always seemed to get in the way. Don’t get me wrong, I love them, but I think I can do with 20-50g per day if the benefits and style of diet put me on the map for better health overall. Plus, sugar free options taste amazing albeit kinda pricey at times

I can get used to this diet if I start to see better hormone levels, lower fat acculation and greater fat burning, higher energy, better mood and clarity of thought

Seems like this diet could be the answer for me maybe. Maybe for a ton of others too
 

Rat Rage

Member
Why do you want to go keto to improve your health? I don't get why people always strive for some extreme diets (no carbs, no meat, only meat), when they absolutely don't need to.

Just eat everything in moderation, stop eating added sugar in EXCESS amounts (limit it to about 20 gramms a day total - and especially avoid sugar drinks and only drink plain water, tea, etc) and do a lot of sport. It will improve your physical and metal health a lot.

If you are overweight and have problem with food cravings, add more of the really filling stuff, like whole grains (whole rain pasta, oatmeal) to your diet. They make you so full, you don't even want to eat anymore. And if you still crave food, eat a lof of extra veggies, which help to make you full as well.

Simple as that.
 
I'd recommend low carb instead. It's what I've been doing now for a few weeks and have never been happier. What I will do is eat a few complex carbs for breakfast (50 g of oat, Brown Rice etc) and then eat no more complex carbs throughout the day. I eat fish with veggies for noon and meat with veggies for dinner. For in between I'll make myself a yoghurt with all Kinds of shit in it (fruits, Greek yoghurt, Avocado, Casein Protein etc) which I eat a few spoons from when I get hungry. And that's it.

After 2-3 weeks of this I think I might just have found the best Nutrition I've had in my life. I litteraly get all the ingredients my Body Needs and making mad Progress with my physique. I'm Pretty much dead all the time anyway but that's more because I Train 6 times a week.
 

gela94

Member
I’m going to go for it. Yesterday and today, carbs have been limited pretty severely. Not gonna lie, I’m pretty damn hungry right now, despite eating adequate protein and I’m pretty sure I got enough fat...but probably will have to eat a bit more from now on

Feels pretty good, but I’ll definitely need to eat more berries and greens soon

I’m kind of excited about the transition if I can make it last. It’s for the best, kind of an extreme way of eating but I’ve gone to extreme measures before regarding dietary choices. I just hope I can find the right variation for me ratively quickly so I don’t have to experience the “keto flu” as it’s been called

Would appreciate any help or advice a lot bros! Thank you for your time

Keto is awesome, don't listen to the people who want to tell you that this is extreeeeeeeeeme. First it's about your body relearning properly to use ketones instead of glucose as fuel and second it's about gaining the ability to go longer periods of not eating so that your body gets into autophagy to start recycling shit and reducing inflammation and also it helps in getting a better relationship with food.
The eastiest way to start is just low starch vegetables (leafy greens) and eggs or meat (but not just muscle meat, try to eat some organmeat too) In the beginning you should eat very fatty so that you will be satisfied avoid vegetables oils!!! Use coconut oil or animal fat for frying.
Keto is not just low carb it is also high fat, without eating enough fat you will feel hungry and the beginning will be difficult because you will go through withdrawl from carbs. To avoid the keto flu try drinking salt water or electrolyte drinks without any sugar or sweetener!
I'm doing keto for almost 2 years and its pretty great so keep on fighting.
 
Avoid sugar. The sugar and refined carbs are what give you strong hunger pangs in the first place. I think keto is fumbling in the dark toward some genuine diet practices. I "went keto" without ever really trying to go keto. My recommendation is to use fasting to keep your total glycogen stores low/empty while generally avoiding carbs (OMAD).

Your overall goal isn't to "avoid carbs" nor to "stay in ketosis". Your overall goal is simply to keep your glycogen stores empty. This can be done via a strict diet like keto or just by fasting once or twice a day. I think the fasting is 1000x easier and simpler.

Regarding the "keto flu", your body uses glucose in the protein-folding process. If glucose is scarce due to keto diet, your body has a harder time fighting off viruses which take advantage of the protein-folding process.
 

betrayal

Banned
The only sensible uses of a ketogenic diet are professional jobs like bodybuilding or certain sports when it comes to weight loss. But even there, there are far better, healthier and easier alternatives.

A ketogenic diet is absolutely not recommended compared to the "Use your brain when you eat diet". Not for long-term weight loss and certainly not to improve your health and/or fitness.

Here are some videos based on studies. The studies themselves are linked. Just have a look at them and educate yourself. Your body will thank you for it.


On the site or on the Internet there are many more articles, videos and studies that strike the same note. If you want to eat healthy and lose weight, eat natural foods as much as possible (meat, fish, etc. are allowed ofc) and avoid processed foods. The shorter the list of ingredients, the better the product. Eat whatever you want, but just cook yourself and you will be a healthier, slimmer and fitter person in a few months. You can also look forward to finally developing a healthy sense of appetite again.

PS: Also very important: move more. Whether it's sport or just regular long walks, it doesn't really matter at first. People are made to move a lot. The whole body is based on it.
 
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South

Banned
Just started it a week ago! Its great - can eat meat if you love meat!
It's harder for vegans.
I'm also combining it with intermittent fasting and OMAD - one meal per day!

Keep it up get some keto strips to check you are on Keto and try to do some exercise too!
 

betrayal

Banned
Just started it a week ago! Its great - can eat meat if you love meat!
It's harder for vegans.
I'm also combining it with intermittent fasting and OMAD - one meal per day!

Keep it up get some keto strips to check you are on Keto and try to do some exercise too!

OMAD is a form of intermittent fasting. You cannot do it without fasting.

But apart from that I can only recommend not to do a keto and even less to combine a keto with OMAD. This is a recipe for disaster. You do this for a week, it's not an achievement. Anyone can do it. The hard time comes after 2-3 weeks and there is no reason to put up with it. Hormone levels, health, fitness and who knows what else will be severely affected. I know I am just some NeoGAF poster, but I can only advise you from the bottom of my heart to follow a reasonable diet.

Of course I am not completely against a ketogenic diet. There are aspects where it is beneficial. For example, if I can make money by marketing this diet form.
 

South

Banned
OMAD is a form of intermittent fasting. You cannot do it without fasting.

But apart from that I can only recommend not to do a keto and even less to combine a keto with OMAD. This is a recipe for disaster. You do this for a week, it's not an achievement. Anyone can do it. The hard time comes after 2-3 weeks and there is no reason to put up with it. Hormone levels, health, fitness and who knows what else will be severely affected. I know I am just some NeoGAF poster, but I can only advise you from the bottom of my heart to follow a reasonable diet.

Of course I am not completely against a ketogenic diet. There are aspects where it is beneficial. For example, if I can make money by marketing this diet form.
Why I am putting up with anything I am very happy! Im not feeling hungry and very happy after my evening meal. Normally before lockdown I would skip breakfast and go to work, and at lunch have a small snack and then go home and eat whatever.

Zero carbs in = maximum strength out. Can't go wrong. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

Nice strawman...keto is about 20grams-40grams of carbs a day. I drink diet drinks, and use almond milk and dont really eat bread or pasta before so its perfectly achievable.
 
i lost 5 lbs eating pancakes and whipped cream and fake maple syrup and brownies and banana cream pie with even more whipped cream and sugar
 

darkestdame

Banned
I feel like not enough people talk about how important water, greens, & fiber intake is important with this diet.

If not, bowel movements aren't going to be fun.
 

daveonezero

Banned
Its not something you really do all the time. Keto is a state of your body. If you aren't testing (with a blood test) if you are in ketosis or not you will never really know. All sorts of foods could trigger you to be out.

I would just focus on healthy whole foods. Cut out sugar and grain based carbs. Do that and you will probably feel better.

That an intermittent fasting.

Keto isn't just something you jump into. It takes time for your mind and body to get used to it. So train yourself to go without food for longer and longer times. Something that is possible when you stop eating shit food.
 
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ManaByte

Member
The only sensible uses of a ketogenic diet are professional jobs like bodybuilding or certain sports when it comes to weight loss. But even there, there are far better, healthier and easier alternatives.

A ketogenic diet is absolutely not recommended compared to the "Use your brain when you eat diet". Not for long-term weight loss and certainly not to improve your health and/or fitness.

Here are some videos based on studies. The studies themselves are linked. Just have a look at them and educate yourself. Your body will thank you for it.


On the site or on the Internet there are many more articles, videos and studies that strike the same note. If you want to eat healthy and lose weight, eat natural foods as much as possible (meat, fish, etc. are allowed ofc) and avoid processed foods. The shorter the list of ingredients, the better the product. Eat whatever you want, but just cook yourself and you will be a healthier, slimmer and fitter person in a few months. You can also look forward to finally developing a healthy sense of appetite again.

PS: Also very important: move more. Whether it's sport or just regular long walks, it doesn't really matter at first. People are made to move a lot. The whole body is based on it.

This.

Keto can actually be dangerous if done for too long as your body isn't getting the nutrients it needs.
 

Grinchy

Banned
I am very far from an expert on this stuff, so take what I say with a bucket of salt.

I know keto "works," but is it actually the right move? If you want to lose a bunch of weight quickly, it can do that. But ask yourself if you are really going to spend the rest of your life "needing to eat more berries and greens soon." Is this genuinely a long-term strategy?

A real long-term strategy that doesn't become a life's obsession is counting calories. If you consume the right amount of calories and do some exercise, you can eat like a normal person, not research for hours about what does and doesn't have carbs, obsess over how you desperately want pizza but can't have it for eternity, and still lose weight and maintain the loss.
 

joe_zazen

Member
For some , it is like a religion. Best guide imo is listening to your body. Everybody is different. One thing, always have some leafy greens available for snacking. If you dont want to eat leafy greens, you arent really hungry.

oh, and get a treadmill/ exercise bike. Try gaming while exercising.

edit: try cutting out all sugars first.
 
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joe_zazen

Member
I am very far from an expert on this stuff, so take what I say with a bucket of salt.

I know keto "works," but is it actually the right move? If you want to lose a bunch of weight quickly, it can do that. But ask yourself if you are really going to spend the rest of your life "needing to eat more berries and greens soon." Is this genuinely a long-term strategy?

A real long-term strategy that doesn't become a life's obsession is counting calories. If you consume the right amount of calories and do some exercise, you can eat like a normal person, not research for hours about what does and doesn't have carbs, obsess over how you desperately want pizza but can't have it for eternity, and still lose weight and maintain the loss.

very true. I tried thePeterson all beef diet for mood, not weigght. And holy shit, eating ceased to be anything but fucking work.

edit: i do find eating sugar is bad for my mood, but regular low gi carbs are fine.
 
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As long as you eat fibrous vegetables and berries it's fine. Always have some broccoli, spinach, kale, green beans, etc. with your meals, and snack on portioned berries, nuts, and cheese if you need to. Cook everything in butter and/or ghee as well to bump up the fat content and flavor. Salt your food and drink a lot of water.

It's really not all that different from a normal diet, just no sugar and grains and and fruit. Counting calories requires you to portion and weigh food anyway, no different from checking carbs, and you need to have variety just like you would anyway too. People pretend it's more difficult but it's not. What's different about eating a "balanced" meal of rice, chicken, and a vegetable followed by a banana and eating a nice steak with broccoli and berries and cream for dessert? It's all variety. That rice is just an energy source like the fat in the steak (and the butter you top it with). What you eat on the side supplements it (the veggie and the banana, or the broccoli and berries).
 
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joe_zazen

Member
As long as you eat fibrous vegetables and berries it's fine. Always have some broccoli, spinach, kale, green beans, etc. with your meals, and snack on portioned berries, nuts, and cheese if you need to. Cook everything in butter and/or ghee as well to bump up the fat content and flavor. Salt your food and drink a lot of water.

It's really not all that different from a normal diet, just no sugar and grains and and fruit. Counting calories requires you to portion and weigh food anyway, no different from checking carbs, and you need to have variety just like you would anyway too. People pretend it's more difficult but it's not. What's different about eating a "balanced" meal of rice, chicken, and a vegetable followed by a banana and eating a nice steak with broccoli and berries and cream for dessert? It's all variety. That rice is just an energy source like the fat in the steak (and the butter you top it with). What you eat on the side supplements it (the veggie and the banana, or the broccoli and berries).

like anything, there are some who make it hard on themselves.

my SO tried going raw for a few months, it was like a second job, lol.
 
Nice strawman...keto is about 20grams-40grams of carbs a day. I drink diet drinks, and use almond milk and dont really eat bread or pasta before so its perfectly achievable.

Sorry, I was shitting around, I'm not a doctor. All I know is what I've gathered from Rogan's podcast. Seems legit. I try the evening fasting and that's good. My wife tries super low carbs and that's done her wonders.

But yeah, ignore my ignoramus post lol
 
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All I know about Keto is that Brendan Schaub swears by it on his podcast, even calls himself the The Keto Kid, yet he is fatter everytime I see him and always talks about cheating on his diet. "I'm on Keto but I have had Cinnabon 3x the last 2 days."
schaub is funny as shit lol

he says he just started doing keto and doesnt feel hungry at all

lmao its cause you loaded up on pizza and cinnabon the days prior

and then 4 days into keto now youre starving again so you cheat day by loading up on cinnabon again

now youre back on keto like omg i never feel hungry on keto lmaaaaa
 

SpiceRacz

Member
I did keto for roughly 6 months. I had a lot of succes with it. Here's a few bits of info from my experience.
  • For the first few days, eat as much as you can. You're probably going to get hungry pretty frequently. Do not count calories.
  • Make sure you are getting electrolytes. Your body will not retain water the same way.
  • Get creative with your meals. One thing that will make people burn out quickly is eating the same shit over and over. Try to have food ready quickly that way you're not resorting to eating bullshit and staying on track.
  • Find out what foods you're sensitive to and what your limit is on carbs. You can test this by using a keto stick about an hour after eating. You might find you're sensitive to certain artificial sweeteners or a certain food. Everyone is different.
  • Try to include vegetables and if you're not eating much of those then take a fiber supplement.
  • Your stomach is going to need time to adjust. So, don't be discouraged when you haven't shit for 3 days and you're suddenly having to run to the bathroom. This may not be the case for you, but it is for a lot of people.
  • The keto flu fucking sucks. I think you can avoid it if you're eating plenty of food and getting the necessary electrolytes. If it's going to occur, it will usually happen in the first week.
 
Nicotine can help with appetite as well. I've never done keto, but I do powerlifting in bulk-cut cycles. During my cuts, I'll vape to help with my appetite. It also gives a little bit of energy which helps, since nicotine is a stimulant. It also doesn't have all the shit in it that cigarettes do.

I don't normally vape otherwise, but I can't deny the benefits. Also, take caution, cause you know, it's nicotine.
 

Cutty Flam

Banned
Thanks for the input fellas, I’ve been reading and listening acutely to every bit of advice

I need to try to figure out how the glycogen aspect of this diet works. That’s my only main concern really. How can I perform as much volume as I usually do, if I eat so little carbs is the auestion? My workout was so much tougher yesterday because I know my glycogen stores were first to go, and highly depleted

So that’s my main concern and only concern really. I follow a high volume training regimen so unfortunately in that regard, keto is doing me wrong. I was struggling hard to do half or so of the volume I did easily four days ago....

So yeah, glycogen stores and keto may be the reason I avoid this diet for the time being until I fully understand the science. I’m not as muscular as I would like yet, so training with depleted glycogen might be a huge issue I cannot overcome right?
 

ManaByte

Member
hahahaha wut

nutritionfacts.org lol

Post more vegan propaganda, please.

It's not vegan propaganda. It's Nutrition 101 and Health Science 101. You learn this shit in your first year of general ed. It's OK for a short term thing, but it can be dangerous if you make it a lifestyle.
 
It's not vegan propaganda. It's Nutrition 101 and Health Science 101. You learn this shit in your first year of general ed. It's OK for a short term thing, but it can be dangerous if you make it a lifestyle.

Ahh, they definitely aren't bullshitting you there. (hint: not everything you learn in school is the absolute truth)

dr-greger.jpg


Dr. nutritionfacts.org himself.

So healthy. Definitely listen to that guy.
 
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Thanks for the input fellas, I’ve been reading and listening acutely to every bit of advice

I need to try to figure out how the glycogen aspect of this diet works. That’s my only main concern really. How can I perform as much volume as I usually do, if I eat so little carbs is the auestion? My workout was so much tougher yesterday because I know my glycogen stores were first to go, and highly depleted

So that’s my main concern and only concern really. I follow a high volume training regimen so unfortunately in that regard, keto is doing me wrong. I was struggling hard to do half or so of the volume I did easily four days ago....

So yeah, glycogen stores and keto may be the reason I avoid this diet for the time being until I fully understand the science. I’m not as muscular as I would like yet, so training with depleted glycogen might be a huge issue I cannot overcome right?

You don't train volume on a cut, or on keto. You train intensity. Keep intensity high. On my workouts during a bulk, I aim for 5x5. On a cut with the same weights, no way. Do the same weights you do at a lower volume, but keep the intensity the same no matter what.

Also, you can't build muscle on keto. Muscle comes from bulking. If you want muscle, bulk and don't worry about how much weight you gain. If you want to lose fat, cut, and don't worry about your volume going down. There's no secret science behind it, you have to pick what you want to do between the two.

If you want to lose weight first on keto, then do that for a bit. Then once you're happy with your current weight, start bulking up on a strength or hypertrophy program.
 

digital haze

Neo Member
The only sensible uses of a ketogenic diet are professional jobs like bodybuilding or certain sports when it comes to weight loss. But even there, there are far better, healthier and easier alternatives.

A ketogenic diet is absolutely not recommended compared to the "Use your brain when you eat diet". Not for long-term weight loss and certainly not to improve your health and/or fitness.

Here are some videos on studies. The studies themselves are linked. Just have a look at them and educate yourself. Your body will thank you for it.
I can't disagree with these sentiments enough. First of all, I have lost (and long-term maintained) weight from a ketogenic diet. I have never felt better throughout the day from any other diet. My body (and mind) thank me for it. Secondly, those videos are equating Atkins to a ketogenic diet. It is absolutely anything but. Atkins is a high protein diet and keto is a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet; This distinction is important, as high amounts of protein will be metabolised the same as carbohydrates. (Additionally, keto should not be confused with other low carb diets as they don't stress the moderate protein). Going by the tone of the guy's voice and the choice data, I'm willing to believe that guy just has a vendetta against keto (or at least the Atkins diet). But I do agree, "use your brain", avoid Atkins.

It's not vegan propaganda. It's Nutrition 101 and Health Science 101. You learn this shit in your first year of general ed. It's OK for a short term thing, but it can be dangerous if you make it a lifestyle.
What I learned was "it's ok to eat sugar" as long as it's "in moderation" as part of a "healthy, balanced diet". I don't see how sugar can be a part of a "healthy, balanced diet", in moderation or otherwise, given what it does to the body. It's totally devoid of nutrients on top of that. Also, "calories in, calories out" is not sound advice as not all calories are equal in how the body reacts to them.

I need to try to figure out how the glycogen aspect of this diet works. That’s my only main concern really. How can I perform as much volume as I usually do, if I eat so little carbs is the question? My workout was so much tougher yesterday because I know my glycogen stores were first to go, and highly depleted

glycogen stores and keto may be the reason I avoid this diet for the time being until I fully understand the science. I’m not as muscular as I would like yet, so training with depleted glycogen might be a huge issue I cannot overcome right?
Your body can produce glucose when needed from fat, ketones, and dietary protein. However, after about 1-3 weeks your body will become 'keto-adapted' (when the cellular machinery has adapted to using ketones) and your endurance and energy levels will likely be greater than they ever were while running on glucose. Ketones are conservative to body muscle. The only time you'll be losing muscle on keto is if your protein levels are too high or you go too long without eating. This is a good video on the topic of keto and body building.

Keto is pretty simple. Don't eat food/drinks with sugars like sucrose, glucose, lactose, etc or 'hidden sugars' like maltodextrin, dextrose, aspartame, etc. Remember that carbohydrates are essentially sugars and treat them as such. However, you should ignore the carbohydrates in vegetables when tallying your daily limit. Avoid starchy vegetables. Eat tons of cruciferous vegetables. Do not snack between meals (eating spikes insulin and slows weight loss), have it at the end of a meal. Don't be afraid of fats, but do avoid vegetable oils. Omega-6 oils are inflammatory, avoid them though sunflower oil is ok. Omega-3 is anti-inflammatory. Aim to eat only nutrient dense foods and organ meats occasionally. You don't need a ton of protein, even when building muscle; You will have to experiment to find your tolerance (around 3oz-8oz). Drink only water if you can. Don't be afraid of consuming a lot of (it's better to be over the limit than under it). Doing keto without fasting is a mistake. You want to get down to two or even one meal a day without being in a huge caloric deficit. The benefits of intermittent fasting (18+ hours) are huge. Only eat when you're hungry. That can't be stressed enough. I'm not talking a little feeling in the stomach that you can ride out, you should really be hungry.

I've possibly missed something important out but that's a quick rundown.
 
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Tesseract

Banned
unless you are testing for ketogenesis, i dunno why you'd bother

just fast a bunch, 0mad also works
 
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p_xavier

Authorized Fister
I've been doing Keto for 4 years. Lost 61lbs and been in the best shape and great blood results. Nutrionists are frauds. If you find ketogenic meals to be bland, just add more butter. And your constipation is more of your carbs than anything else... no fiber needed.
 
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digital haze

Neo Member
unless you are testing for ketogenesis, i dunno why you'd bother

just fast a bunch, 0mad also works
There's not much point testing for ketones, unless you're doing expensive blood tests. Ketones in the urine and breath are waste products, markers that will eventually go away after your body fully adapts to using them. I've never done any of these tests; I just see them as a way to show at an early stage 'something is happening' to beginners and sceptics.

Food goes in, poop comes out.
That's certainly the goal. No one likes being egg-bound.
 
The first few days you will be tired and then things slowly return to normal. I think you can get similar results with a diet of exclusively meat and vegetables and whatever condiments you need for them, but for some reason that's not fashionable.


The first diet I had that worked was me eating as much pork and home made fries as I could. I lost more than 20 pounds by doing that. Yes, fries are a vegetable. I was eating more than a pound of pork a day.
 
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