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[pixelation]

Level design won't be as big a change as what you think.

So many people will be disappointed it seems with what next generation games look like as it seems to be their first switch over from one to generation to the next.

You can only see what's on the screen so a level design like open world games like the witcher 3 are already showing us the limit of what our eyes would see in real life so next generation level design will just put more in the world.

Draw distance and a million other things can be adjusted to allow a game to be on a garbage console like the xbox one original on let's an open world game and have everything turn on for a xbox series ☓ version.

An awful lot of us have pc's that more powerful than the two next generation consoles so already understand.

You will be disappointed when you see your chosen consoles games also have a ps4 version and don't look massively different than today's offerings.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

You will be disappointed when you see your chosen consoles games also have a ps4 version and don't look massively different than today's offerings.

Unless games are not design from.the start to take advantage of the ram + SDD + audio + controler, i fear it's gonna be this gen all over again. Better resolution, better fps, at full price. Lots here hate this gen for that, being a "glorifided" PS3 gen (i would loved a ps3 pro).The XBOX 3rd party reveal is made with lots of ps4 games with better resolution. Wanna play PS4 games, just get one! Better res, get a pro!

I hope i'm wrong... That's why i saw BC for PS1, 2, 3 to be that important.

 

[Guilty_AI]

That is only in ghraphical sense but next gen could potentially(or should) mean a chance to design systems or stuff that won't work on current gen.

People are really overestimating the advances this gen will bring.

Stuff like ray tracing and SSD's, their advantages are largely related to cutting development time rather than improving the games themselves. That's largely the reason why devs are excited. All that'll happen at the beggining is that they'll still need to do things the usual way before being able to gradually shift to the new tech as standard.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I guess that's why Knack looked so goddamn good, it was PS4 exclusive.

Also the guy literally says one device can have exclusive features. They haven't shown Halo on XSX yet, why would he give any concrete info about the XSX vs Xbone version lol

 

[welsay01]

how do you explain that GTA 5 allows you to fly across the map in a Jet on the same hardware? or JustCause 4?

Not without compromise though. Planes in GTA 5 are slow. They're barely faster than the fastest cars in the game and that's due to the limitation of asset streaming speed.

 

[splattered]

I know, but Microsoft's games will not be exclusive to XBSX. Sony's first party offerings will be exclusive to the PS5 and Sony first party always knocks it out of the park technologically speaking (even when their hardware is less powerful than the competition).

First run of 1st party PS5 games are NOT going to be completely exclusive to the PS5 outside of maybe some small quirky titles here and there.

They have a 110 million user base... they will NOT risk losing all those software sales, especially during/after this stupid pandemic.

Lets say PS5 sells 10 million consoles in the first year... that's 100 million potential game sales that you think they are going to just ignore to try and FORCE people to get a ps5?

Not happening.

 

[01011001]

Unless games are not design from.the start to take advantage of the ram + SDD + audio + controler, i fear it's gonna be this gen all over again. Better resolution, better fps, at full price. Lots here hate this gen for that, being a "glorifided" PS3 gen (i would loved a ps3 pro).The XBOX 3rd party reveal is made with lots of ps4 games with better resolution. Wanna play PS4 games, just get one! Better res, get a pro!

I hope i'm wrong... That's why i saw BC for PS1, 2, 3 to be that important.

the issue is that we are approaching a point where graphical improvements will become less and less noticeable.
honestly, raytracing will be the biggest change this gen. and what raytracing does is it makes games look more believable. and that is what games will be next gen, they will look more believable and/or more temporarily stable. meaning, less pop-in, less issues with lighting and more realistic lighting, finally working reflections where you would expect them to be with none of the glitch-like issues ScreenSpace effects have.

that's what next gen is gonna be like... that and way faster loading and most likely better framerates.

and honestly, I have no issue with that. the biggest issues modern games have is all the small blemishes that eventually add up.

Not without compromise though. Planes in GTA 5 are slow. They're barely faster than the fastest cars in the game and that's due to the limitation of asset streaming speed.

ok, how fast would you want a flying dino in Horizon to be? faster than a fighter jet in GTA? faster than a fighter jet in JustCause 4? and the fastest cars in GTA5 are also really damn fast at full speed on a straight road you're barely able to react to oncoming traffic in the super high end cars

 

[Elder Legend]

Should probably hold off on these predictions until we see footage from both sides, sounds like we will have something to compare head to head in July

Probably the most wisest thing that anyone has said in this thread.

I'd let Digital Foundry do the talking once we get the head to head comparisons with games like Valhalla and etc.

As for 1st party both will look incredible, so not worried.

 

[DrScissorsMD]

One thing I don't see people mention much in discussions like this is how MS's pre-existing BC efforts and PC releases tie into this. While not being the primarily goal of said efforts, they've already laid a tonne of the groundwork to allow for far better scalability with their games than PS would have. And that's not a slight on PS, as they just haven't released their stuff on PC. But MS wouldn't have kept current gen supported if they weren't confident they could do it without hurting their next gen and they'd already have plenty of experience and lessons learned from PC releases and BC/FC setting up to get it done. End of the day only time will tell if their next gen efforts are graphically on par with whatever PS does, but I'd be confident they'll be close at worst.

 

[01011001]

One thing I don't see people mention much in discussions like this is how MS's pre-existing BC efforts and PC releases tie into this. While not being the primarily goal of said efforts, they've already laid a tonne of the groundwork to allow for far better scalability with their games than PS would have. And that's not a slight on PS, as they just haven't released their stuff on PC. But MS wouldn't have kept current gen supported if they weren't confident they could do it without hurting their next gen and they'd already have plenty of experience and lessons learned from PC releases and BC/FC setting up to get it done. End of the day only time will tell if their next gen efforts are graphically on par with whatever PS does, but I'd be confident they'll be close at worst.

what most likely happened is that they looked at their first 12 months of planned Series X releases and then looked if these games can still run in Xbox One... they tried, and indeed they could... so they will release it on it.
I bet it was that simple.

 

[skneogaf]

Surely it doesn't make sense to make a game that only works on a ps5 that has already had its availability numbers reduced for the launch.

How many consoles will be available till December 31st? One million, two million?

The ps4 has one hundred and ten million in potential customers hands so no way are will there be many if any ps5 exclusive games.

Plus the ps5 can do a version of backwards compatible so surely developers can make their ps4 game work on a ps5 who have both dev kits to work with.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

the issue is that we are approaching a point where graphical improvements will become less and less noticeable.
honestly, raytracing will be the biggest change this gen. and what raytracing does is it makes games look more believable. and that is what games will be next gen, they will look more believable and/or more temporarily stable. meaning, less pop-in, less issues with lighting and more realistic lighting, finally working reflections where you would expect them to be with none of the glitch-like issues ScreenSpace effects have.

that's what next gen is gonna be like... that and way faster loading and most likely better framerates.

and honestly, I have no issue with that. the biggest issues modern games have is all the small blemishes that eventually add up.



ok, how fast would you want a flying dino in Horizon to be? faster than a fighter jet in GTA? faster than a fighter jet in JustCause 4? and the fastest cars in GTA5 are also really damn fast at full speed in a straight road.

At 399/499€, i have zero problem with that, as long as we get enough exclusives from Sony. That's why i think 1st party will be really important and key for hardware makers and consumers. They'll likely be the only ones to take absolutely full avantage of the hardware with most 3rd party products looking mostly the same on both consoles (ps5 will have no problem to run ps4 games at 4k/60 fps).

 

[Bryank75]

Yup... we all knew it. The exclusives will let the next gen shine brightest and PlayStation has by far the strongest hand there.
Xbox have had the most powerful console for the last few years, what changed? The games didn't get any better....

 

[welsay01]

ok, how fast would you want a flying dino in Horizon to be? faster than a fighter jet in GTA? faster than a fighter jet in JustCause 4? and the fastest cars in GTA5 are also really damn fast at full speed in a straight road.

I dunno. As fast as the game designers want them to be I guess.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Yup... we all knew it. The exclusives will let the next gen shine brightest and PlayStation has by far the strongest hand there.
Xbox have had the most powerful console for the last few years, what changed? The games didn't get any better....

Again, in fairness, no game was built for the ground up with the X as lead platform. RDR2 hit true 4k on X, that's pretty impressive.

PS4 has the best looking games gen, for sure, but that could definitely change when XsX is eventually sole platform a game is developed for

 

[Bryank75]

Again, in fairness, no game was built for the ground up with the X as lead platform. RDR2 hit true 4k on X, that's pretty impressive.

PS4 has the best looking games gen, for sure, but that could definitely change when XsX is eventually sole platform a game is developed for

Maybe but there is no guarantee, whereas PS has a track record. Also by that time we will already be expecting mid-gen refresh....

 

[01011001]

At 399/499€, i have zero problem with that, as long as we get enough exclusives from Sony. That's why i think 1st party will be really important and be key for hardware makers and consumers. They'll likely be the only ones to take absolutely full avantage of the hardware with most 3rd party products looking mostly the same on both consoles (ps5 will have no problem to run ps4 games at 4k/60 fps).

I'm talking full utilization of the hardware, most we will get is a more cohesive looking image will less blemishes. you pretty much can't do much more anymore.
we are not only at a point where graphic improvements are less and less noticeable, we are also at a point where the manpower of the developers are coming to the point where they can't really do much more in a reasonable amount of time.

like, character models and car models in games like Forza are already so good, there's little left to improve other than LOD detail
even if you double the amount of polygons a 3D models has from this gen to next gen, the difference will be almost unoticable.

here an example of what I mean, these polygons double their amount of corners they have with each step down. after a while you need to REALLY zoom in in order to notice any difference at all, and even then it is really hard

(zoom in if needed, this pic has a huge resolution)

a circle can only go so round, and 3D models can only have so much detail until they are so small that were in sub-pixel terretory even on a 4k screen.

 

[teezzy]

People act like graphical scaling hasn't existed on PC for fucking ages at this point.

Get a grip, fanboy.

 

[Melee Attack]

off course the graphics can be improved on the series X
but what about the Ai if it's smarter it's not the same game any more. So the First Party studios can't optimize the Ai for Series X.

Why is nobody worried about that?

 

[RCU005]

I think Microsoft can still have great looking games, even better looking than PS5 since they have the power to do so. The difference (if noticeable) will be from the game design. Sony got all their first party studios working on PS5 since 2 years ago (IIRC), and something they do pretty well is taking advantage of their hardware.

Like Mike Cerny said, the SSD is not only for lower load times (or any), but it allows for completely different design philosophy. If that is something that can be conveyed since the beginning, and it's something that is actually noticeable, it will be very impressive.

Microsoft will make the games look great, but it will just be like a higher resolution, better textures, etc. from an Xbox One game. Sony on the other hand, COULD do something actually innovative.

I still think that Sony committing to the PS5 ( and a generational change overall) it's a smart move. They know that people move on regardless, because games start being developed for the newer console sooner or later. Also, they want people to move to the PS5 faster, so having games that they can only play on PS5, is what's going to entice people to do so.

 

[01011001]

off course the graphics can be improved on the series X
but what about the Ai if it's smarter it's not the same game any more. So the First Party studios can't optimize the Ai for Series X.

Why is nobody worried about that?

because look at modern games, and then look at their AI... AAA games haven't had any jumps in AI since Halo 3. AI is not only CPU bound, but also depended on how well the developers can design the AI. you know, someone has to actually code that shit. and in 99% of all cases it is a human limitation not a hardware limitation when it comes to AI behavior

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Like Mike Cerny said, the SSD is not only for lower load times (or any), but it allows for completely different design philosophy. If that is something that can be conveyed since the beginning, and it's something that is actually noticeable, it will be very impressive.

Microsoft will make the games look great, but it will just be like a higher resolution, better textures, etc. from an Xbox One game. Sony on the other hand, COULD do something actually innovative.

The XsX doesn't have a fast enough SSD for innovation too?

Why is it so popular to pretend like the XsX doesn't have a generational leap in storage bandwidth too?

 

[RCU005]

The XsX doesn't have a fast enough SSD for innovation too?

Why is it so popular to pretend like the XsX doesn't have a generational leap in storage bandwidth too?

The SSD of the PS5 is much more than just the bandwidth. The entire system is designed to remove bottlenecks. Something that Microsoft has not said anything about it. Yes, they have a generational-leap-SSD, but the way it's designed for the PS5 is completely different.

With that said, even if Microsoft had the same SSD (maybe it does, Microsoft hasn't said anything about how they remove bottlenecks, etc). Microsoft is making games for Xbox One, so they can't do actual design changes that could only be posible on XSX (the first year). Sony, on the other hand WILL have PS5 exclusives, designed from the ground up for the PS5, which like I said, if that is something that can be noticeable, it will make a difference against LAUNCH games.

XSX will only have graphical improvements, more like a DVD movie released in 4K. Same movie, just looks better.

When Microsoft begins to develop games from the ground up just for the XSX, then we will be able to compare both of their power advantages, but at LAUNCH, PS5 will have the advantage if Sony is taking advantage of the PS5 AND you can tell.

 

[pqueue]

Clarify for me. How is this point not a shitty version of console war/fanboy crap?

It is pure supposition, based on incomplete information, yet stated as if it is a fact.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Clarify for me. How is this point not a shitty version of console war/fanboy crap?

It is pure supposition, based on incomplete information, yet stated as if it is a fact.

I honestly would have bet 20 bucks that this thread wouldn't last 20 replies. I was sure of that based on the thread title alone.

I woulda been out 20 bucks

 

[CatLady]

I honestly would have bet 20 bucks that this thread wouldn't last 20 replies. I was sure of that based on the thread title alone.

I woulda been out 20 bucks

Clarify for me. How is this point not a shitty version of console war/fanboy crap?

It is pure supposition, based on incomplete information, yet stated as if it is a fact.

This thread was absolutely created as console war bait and I can't understand why it wasn't locked long before it got this far.

I read through it for the lulz, but I don't begin to understand why some of you are attempting to have an honest discussion in such an obvious troll thread.

 

[polybius80]

ok, how fast would you want a flying dino in Horizon to be? faster than a fighter jet in GTA? faster than a fighter jet in JustCause 4? and the fastest cars in GTA5 are also really damn fast at full speed on a straight road you're barely able to react to oncoming traffic in the super high end cars

I dont think they can be compared 1:1 we dont know how HZD works under the hood compared to GTAV, I havent played HZD but its map chunks look more complex than GTAV, for example the terrain look way more complex, I remember guerilla mention their engine use tiny pieces to build their maps in killzone if they use the same in HZD then they are very complex maybe that is not good for a fast travel while GTAV has relatively simple terrain that can be easily streamed and then load the LOD details, its a PS3/360 game at its core, so PS4, Xbox one and PC only add some better assets, better textures, shader effects and more trees but the terrain and most detail is intact

 

[TearInto5th]

I just want to know what Housemarque are up to, and traditionally always being a launch title for Sony, I can't even imagine what they're doing for a AAA game.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

I just want to know what Housemarque are up to, and traditionally always being a launch title for Sony, I can't even imagine what they're doing for a AAA game.

Namco Bandai and Square and From Software and SEGA will be there, like a 100%. Same with EA, Activision and 2k.

 

[Neo_game]

Although IMO gfx fidelity is getting irrelevant. I think one big advantage PS5 exclusives has that they are not limited to Xbox S. Sony will also concentrate on MP games this gen but SP games is still their forte so may be in few years we will see it.

 

[SlimySnake]

First year and last. Ms will be playing catch up all gen.

I have no idea what they were thinking with this launch.

 

[bitbydeath]

pixelation so what exactly would a game look like that is designed for SSD? how would you improve from something like GTA 5, The Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2? RDR2 especially already has so little noticeable pop-in on Xbox One X while looking crazy good. what could an SSD improve from there when it comes to leveldesign?

Think real detailed cities.

 

[Big-G]

Honestly Idc which console has the better visuals. We are at a point in graphic fidelity to me that just about every AAA game looks top notch. Im more interested in what your game is about and how I will play is. Both consoles will have amazing visuals and I think we are in for a real treat this gen.

 

[Journey]

No doubt, just look at Godfall

Pfff that shit looks dope! a prime example of what you can achieve when it's not hampered by the PS4

Here's another prediction, why 2020 will be the best year ever!

2020 is guaranteed to be dope, it's jut LOGICAL!

 

[Stuart360]

First party games, def possible, especially while Microsoft are still supporting XB1, but op you have to realize that every game Micosoft showed yesterday (except the 1 or 2 that are exclusive) will also be on PS5.

 

[AlexxKidd]

I mean, Sony's literally releasing a game next month on the 2013 PS4 that looks better than everything shown at Microsoft's Xbox Series X 'next gen, game changing' extravaganza so you bring up some very real possibilities.

 

[ethomaz]

Probably for the whole generation.

 

[ethomaz]

First run of 1st party PS5 games are NOT going to be completely exclusive to the PS5 outside of maybe some small quirky titles here and there.

They have a 110 million user base... they will NOT risk losing all those software sales, especially during/after this stupid pandemic.

Lets say PS5 sells 10 million consoles in the first year... that's 100 million potential game sales that you think they are going to just ignore to try and FORCE people to get a ps5?

Not happening.

I'm pretty sure only MLB The Show will be cross-gen like happened with PS3 to PS4.

After TLOU2 and GoT first party games will exclusives to PS5.

 

[DrScissorsMD]

Yup... we all knew it. The exclusives will let the next gen shine brightest and PlayStation has by far the strongest hand there.
Xbox have had the most powerful console for the last few years, what changed? The games didn't get any better....

Some of you dudes need to let this BS narrative go. Did the PS4Pro have any games made specifically for it in its limited time as the most powerful console? XB1X was a mid (almost late) gen refresh. You don't make software specifically for a mid gen refresh, it's just not logical. Same as when you guys bring up XB1X in sales arguments, it's just not relevant when put in context. It was never intended to close the gap.

 

[Bakkus]

Not gonna matter if the artstyle is uninspired like it is for all their first party titles.

 

[Bryank75]

Not gonna matter if the artstyle is uninspired like it is for all their first party titles.

Riiiiight.......

 

[Psykodad]

Some of you dudes need to let this BS narrative go. Did the PS4Pro have any games made specifically for it in its limited time as the most powerful console? XB1X was a mid (almost late) gen refresh. You don't make software specifically for a mid gen refresh, it's just not logical. Same as when you guys bring up XB1X in sales arguments, it's just not relevant when put in context. It was never intended to close the gap.

Using upgraded systems in the same gen that only a small fraction of the userbases own isn't making a strong case.

 

[Chan]

I think the MS decision is a double-edged sword.

I am happy for people who aren't ready for a gen shift and remain on a xone. They will get the whole package.

But people who do shift gen will get deprived of true next gen performance for 2 years. One might as well wait to buy the console.

Personally I don't like it. But I can understand their move.

 

[Kagey K]

Let's say this goes the other way. Despite them catering to the XB1, the Series X games look better, then what?

If you think companies are going to start only making games for PS5 then today's Xbox "flop" is going to really disappoint you.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Hell, ill take Ghost and the last of us. Best graphics Ive seen.

 

[killatopak]

exactly.
the Witcher 3 is a good comparison point. the game looks crazy good on PC is fully open world with no barriers blocking your line of sight... yet it can run on the Switch by dropping draw distance and other settings.

pixelation so what exactly would a game look like that is designed for SSD? how would you improve from something like GTA 5, The Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2? RDR2 especially already has so little noticeable pop-in on Xbox One X while looking crazy good. what could an SSD improve from there when it comes to leveldesign?
and stop with that Horizon flying across the map shit. that is 100% an Engine issue not a hardware issue, since so many games have fast vehicles that allow you to fly across detailed open maps. games made with the Rage Engine, Apex Engine or even Call of Duty's engine can do that with ease now.

it's actually pretty simple to prove. Just play Star Citizen on HDD vs SSD.

The game is literally designed to play on an SSD without any console baggage. There is simply no way to play it on an HDD without severely tanking performance.

This isn't an engine issue it has everything to do with how many small objects are continuously loaded from the SSD. HDD can't deal with the massive number of small files that are needed to be read. Even if you can theoretically find an HDD that has the same speed as an SSD it will only be able to perform the same speed on files that are massive and not on thousands of small files. e.g. 10gb on one file versus 10 gb split up into tens of thousands of files.

 

[PocoJoe]

The XsX doesn't have a fast enough SSD for innovation too?

Why is it so popular to pretend like the XsX doesn't have a generational leap in storage bandwidth too?

Because they stated that they will support xbox one for few years. Cant build game from ground up to support SSD if they drag ONE behind them.

And people dont say that xsex doesnt have fast SSD too, they say that PS5 have faster and maybe more optimized one, and then xbots come to cry how it doesnt matter. And then repeat how 12 is more than 10

 

[Adam_802]

lmao, sure op whatever you say

 

[Craig of War]

LOL how about we wait for when the AAA games are release on both console than we can compare

 

[Vroadstar]

Always is and always will be. Just look at the 2 new very good looking AAA games coming one after the other, and then compare to what X released recently, Sony exclusives will always be topping X games, it's not even a contest anymore.