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[CobraXT]

neil Druckmann is rumored to be the person that pushed veteran developers and writers out of ND so there is a possibility that the game is a failure
from the beginning due to lack of vision and form the fact that most ND team now is second tier and inexperienced developers .. the sjw agenda was
most likely implanted to win ratings from woke journalists and push away any criticism .. neil is just a fraud and scam artist

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

There are about 3 misconceptions in this thread alone ill start with the "These characters cant be role models"
Point blank neil is a moron straight up he obviously never played any of those games or is completely bias as hell to even say that. So lets look at Ellie how is this character anymore of a role model then Ayanya from DOA Ellie is still a psychopath and a uncensored edgy 13 year old edge lord. I didn't know telling kids to cuss was the new norm I also didnt know being a psychopathic was one either news to me. The absolute arrogance of Neil thinking he split the Atom of how to make a female character is stupid Ellie is pretty much an unfunny version of RE4" Ashley" And isnt neil apart of the same group that preaches female empowerment and inclusive ness and they can do what ever they want seems awfully hypocritical for him to be calling out other creates then.

2. False flagging on youtube by naughty dog
if neil is about creating art you realize that art is subjective and open for critique that is like half of the reason behind art. Under no law does ND have the right to strike down critique videos and using a third part mafia like entity to do it. Those videos show NO leaked gameplay or screenshots. What Neil wants is everyone to just praise it like slice bread without spoiling anything the people who are pissed have every right and reason to be.

3. Politics in gaming
If you want to put your personal views in a game do what ever but your asking for people to be turned off. Since everyones views differ. No way is a person some Racist or Bigbot because they disagree with your views the end and dont want to spend $60+ dollars on your propaganda peace either accept it or dont. But like the art point I made Neil wants to hide behind both of them to damage control why people are pissed when hes the one that caused the anger in the 1st place.

 

[Woggleman]

Idk I can find a weak female killing 100s of males without any effort 'realistic' .

TLOU fantasy world is just as real as a female dominating NBA making chase down blocks on Giannis and becoming finals MVP by locking down Lebron and averaging 40 PPG.

Some concessions have to be made for entertainment but the people in the game are not meant to look like cartoon characters.

 

[Woggleman]

The only reason strong women and gays are even considered political is because of sexism and homophobia. In a just world it would be considered normal.

 

[Whitesnake]

His issue is that we're seeing too many of these female characters. He realized this because he almost tried to make one himself in The Last of Us with the clickers.

But his problem isn't that there's "too many" of them, his problem is that they exist at all. He calls them "misogynistic", "marginalizing", etc, while also implying that this sexuality makes these characters bad role models. He believes that sexualized characters will spread misogyny and will negatively affect little girls.

And he's using these terms to describe Cortana ffs.

He believes these characters are both an indicator of societal woes, like misogyny and self-esteem issues, and also a vector through which those societal woes spread. He thinks these characters' mere existence is sacrilege.

 

[InterMusketeer]

He doesn't say anything about them being 'bad characters' b/c too sexy. His critique was very specific - He doesn't like overly sexualized characters. It's funny many accuse this of being an SJW feminist value (which it is) but it overlaps deeply with conservative values. Every conservative wants their daughter dressing modestly. Heck,I think every dad wants their daughter dressing modestly. So when he sets out to create a nonsexualized female character that his daughter can look up to, I don't see the issue.

All the game characters he talks about and shows are 18+ games with plenty of violence. His daughter shouldn't be seeing these characters in the first place.

 

[DForce]

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves

We don't normally interview developers the day their game comes out. And to be fair, we didn't exactly speak to Naughty…

www.eurogamer.net

Do you see Neils's name? I see Amy

Where's your evidence that Neil had any influence on the character then? We know for a fact it was Amy's character, so it's your turn.

They interviewed a few people from ND.

That's not proof, dude.

Neil Druckmann - Co-lead game designer, Co-writer

Like with Uncharted 2 we wrote Chloe to be quite sexual and she uses that to her advantage.

That's enough proof.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

They interviewed a few people from ND.

That's not proof, dude.

Neil Druckmann - Co-lead game designer, Co-writer


That's enough proof.

The developer quotes Amy specifically. That's proof enough its her character. I don't see Neil's name referenced anywhere.

Where'd you pull that quote from? That's quite hilarious because if that's referring to TLL I'd love to see the sexual innuendos she was known for in U2.

 

[DForce]

But his problem isn't that there's "too many" of them, his problem is that they exist at all. He calls them "misogynistic", "marginalizing", etc, while also implying that this sexuality makes these characters bad role models. He believes that sexualized characters will spread misogyny and will negatively affect little girls.

And he's using these terms to describe Cortana ffs.

He believes these characters are both an indicator of societal woes, like misogyny and self-esteem issues, and also a vector through which those societal woes spread. He thinks these characters' mere existence is sacrilege.

Neil Druckmann

I don't think you CAN'T have sexualized female characters, but if you're going to do it, make sure there's meaning behind it. Pay it off. Show how that's important

If you make sexualized female characters, they're still going to be objectified. That's the truth. You're appealing to sexual desires of men and some women. There's really no debating that.

Do you think Quiet was not designed to appeal to a male audience?

Be honest. We are seeing a lot of those characters in video games. I don't have a problem with it personally, but I can admit that's what that they're designed.

 

[DForce]

The developer quotes Amy specifically. That's proof enough its her character. I don't see Neil's name referenced anywhere.

Where'd you pull that quote from? That's quite hilarious because if that's referring to TLL I'd love to see the sexual innuendos she was known for in U2.

Eurogamer: Uncharted 2 has lots of new characters, most notably Chloe Frazer. What's her background and what's the journey that she's on?

Justin Richmond: From the beginning we always wanted - I know Amy [Hennig, game director] wanted - Chloe to be a foil for showing not only what Drake could have been if was a little bit darker, but also to play off Elena, because Elena's the good girl that does the right thing all the time, and the more heroic version of what Drake could be.

But there was never that other side of Drake, which we really wanted to show in this game and it was important for Amy to show that this whole world of treasure hunters is a little seedy, and so we needed a character that was believable and funny, but a little bit darker than Drake and was going to push the boundaries on what was acceptable and what was not.

As far as what her actual backstory is: I'm not sure we can talk about that much

Amy didn't create the character herself, it was a team effort. That's why he says "WE". You're desperate in trying to make it look like Neil doesn't want these type of characters in his game at all.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Amy didn't create the character herself, it was a team effort. That's why he says "WE". You're desperate in trying to make it look like Neil doesn't want these type of characters in his game at all.

You claimed Niel was the one who designed Chloe to be sexualized.

So where's you evidence? If a developer is referring Amy specifically then that is evidence enough that the character is hers.

He doesn't want these characters. That's why TLL is dry as fuck in humour.

 

[Jtibh]

disagree completely. An ugly man can get a beautiful girl - by personality or money. An ugly woman can't get a handsome man, even if she has money or a great personality.

You not from around here otherwise you would not say this if you ever been to walmart.
I swear most of those guys are with that fat fugly bitch cuz of fear.

 

[DForce]

You claimed Niel was the one who designed Chloe to be sexualized.

So where's you evidence? If a developer is referring Amy specifically then that is evidence enough that the character is hers.

He doesn't want these characters. That's why TLL is dry as fuck in humour.

I said that's the way he designed Chloe and then I said show me proof he didn't have ANY influence. Should be obvious to people that most characters are not made by one person alone.

You can say what you want, but the fact of the matter is, he had influence on the character and he was a co-writer on the game.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I said that's the way he designed Chloe and then I said show me proof he didn't have ANY influence. Should be obvious to people that most characters are not made by one person alone.

You can say what you want, but the fact of the matter is, he had influence on the character and he was a co-writer on the game.

Amy was the director. We see quotes from the developers referencing Amy specifically about how [bold] she [/bold] wanted the character to be portrayed.

Again, where's your evidence it was how he wanted to design Chloe?

 

[DForce]

Amy was the director. We see quotes from the developers referencing Amy specifically about how [bold] she [/bold] wanted the character to be portrayed.

Again, where's your evidence it was how he wanted to design Chloe?

I already quoted Neil's.

You also have to prove him wrong and you can't.

Eurogamer: Uncharted 2 has lots of new characters, most notably Chloe Frazer. What's her background and what's the journey that she's on?

Justin Richmond: From the beginning we always wanted - I know Amy [Hennig, game director] wanted - Chloe to be a foil for showing not only what Drake could have been if was a little bit darker, but also to play off Elena, because Elena's the good girl that does the right thing all the time, and the more heroic version of what Drake could be.

But there was never that other side of Drake, which we really wanted to show in this game and it was important for Amy to show that this whole world of treasure hunters is a little seedy, and so we needed a character that was believable and funny, but a little bit darker than Drake and was going to push the boundaries on what was acceptable and what was not.

She emphasized the level of importance.

It was a team effort.

If you can't prove to me that he didn't have any influence on her design then I'm done.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I already quoted Neil's.

You also have to prove him wrong and you can't.



She emphasized the level of importance.

It was a team effort.

If you can't prove to me that he didn't have any influence on her design then I'm done.

I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that's the design Neil intended. We know it was Amy's because she's specifically quoted.

Or did you just lie?

Oh and yeah, again that quote is bullshit because whatever "sexualized personality" she had in TLL is gone

 

[Whitesnake]

Neil Druckmann


If you make sexualized female characters, they're still going to be objectified. That's the truth. You're appealing to sexual desires of men and some women. There's really no debating that.

Do you think Quiet was not designed to appeal to a male audience?

Be honest. We are seeing a lot of those characters in video games. I don't have a problem with it personally, but I can admit that's what that they're designed.

So we're back to claiming that "she flirts to get her way" is a compelling reason, but "she takes on the appearance of the woman who made her and whom her AI is based on" is not. Again, these standards are blatantly hypocritical and make no sense.

And feels that these characters are mysoginistic, but claims that he has no problem with them, which would mean that he believes misogyny isn't an issue, no? He can't have it both ways, he can't claim that these characters are problematic to the real world but then backpedal by saying "but I dont think they're bad tho".

 

[DForce]

So we're back to claiming that "she flirts to get her way" is a compelling reason, but "she takes the appearance of the woman who made her and whom her AI is based on" is not. Again, these standards are blatantly hypocritical and make no sense.

And feels that these characters are mysoginistic, but claims that he has no problem with them, which would mean that he believes misogyny isn't an issue, no? He can't have it both ways, he can't claim that these characters are problematic to the real world but then backpedal by saying "but I dont think they're bad tho".

I think strippers are objectified, treated as less etc. but do you think I'm going to close my eyes when I see a hot chick stripping out in public?

No. lol

You can talk about how there's too many female characters like this, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't make characters like that. It just means you would rather see more characters who are not sexualized.

 

[Strategize]

You are generalizing and projecting. Make a better argument than telling others how you can peer into the minds of the masses and people won't be critical of your opinion.

TLOU is in my top 5 ever, I've seen countless videos and countless comments over the years. And my takeaway is simple, for the vast, vast majority of people Joel and Ellie are The Last of Us.

Sure many of them may like the combat, the visuals, the infected design, the music, but at the end of the day, it all comes back to Joel and Ellie. I've seen more than enough evidence that I'm confident to call this a fact.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

TLOU is in my top 5 ever, I've seen countless videos and countless comments over the years. And my takeaway is simple, for the vast, vast majority of people Joel and Ellie are The Last of Us.

Sure many of them may like the combat, the visuals, the infected design, the music, but at the end of the day, it all comes back to Joel and Ellie. I've seen more than enough evidence that I'm confident to call this a fact.

So in your opinion then, which you share with some people. Hardly countless. That has no meaning.

 

[oagboghi2]

He doesn't say anything about them being 'bad characters' b/c too sexy. His critique was very specific - He doesn't like overly sexualized characters. It's funny many accuse this of being an SJW feminist value (which it is) but it overlaps deeply with conservative values. Every conservative wants their daughter dressing modestly. Heck,I think every dad wants their daughter dressing modestly. So when he sets out to create a nonsexualized female character that his daughter can look up to, I don't see the issue.

You're making a lot of wild generalizations about people.

 

[Whitesnake]

I think strippers are objectified, treated as less etc. but do you think I'm going to close my eyes when I see a hot chick stripping out in public?

No. lol

You can talk about how there's too many female characters like this, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't make characters like that. It just means you would rather see more characters who are not sexualized.

That analogy doesn't make any sense. Niel thinks these characters spread misogyny/sexism and are bad role models, but backtracks. If you proclaim that strippers are a detriment to society by virtue of their mere existence but then end it with saying "but I'm not saying strippers are bad tho" then that's a pretty blatant attempt at preemptively deflecting criticisms about the extreme statement you had just made.

And you still have yet to property address the fact that Niel's standards for good sexualization and bad sexualization make no sense. The sexualized characters in games for which he was a writer have less justification for their sexualized nature than even the specific examples he's lambasting. There is no reasonable set of standards you could create wherein Cortana is problematic but Chloe is not.

His take is dumb and hypocritical, and I don't understand why you and OP are taking it upon yourselfs to keep reaching for straws by continuously recontextualizing and re-interpreting what he said. You're not his PR team, you can admit that his take is an ill-thought-out piece of rhetoric.

 

[Strategize]

So in your opinion then, which you share with some people. Hardly countless. That has no meaning.

Tell me then, why is TLOU so popular? I mean clearly you're the expert here.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Tell me then, why is TLOU so popular? I mean clearly you're the expert here.

It's a good gaming experience. I liked it. I am not going to peer into the minds of people I don't know to tell you why they liked it.

I can't test that hypothesis. So I wouldnt make the claim.

 

[Nethernova]

i couldnt stand ellie in tlou 1 and it had nothing to do with an agenda

just did nothing for me

much prefer clem in TWD

 

[Arachnid]

You can't find me a single quote where he says "sexy characters cannot be deep or interesting or inspirational." Indeed, Chloe from Uncharted is incredibly sexy. And she uses her sex appeal to get her way.

He didn't direct either of the games she showed up in. In fact, the Uncharted he directed is the only one she didn't show up in other than the first (she wasn't in the series until 2).

 

[DForce]

That analogy doesn't make any sense. Niel thinks these characters spread misogyny/sexism and are bad role models, but backtracks. If you proclaim that strippers are a detriment to society by virtue of their mere existence but then end it with saying "but I'm not saying strippers are bad tho" then that's a pretty blatant attempt at preemptively deflecting criticisms about the extreme statement you had just made.

And you still have yet to property address the fact that Niel's standards for good sexualization and bad sexualization make no sense. The sexualized characters in games for which he was a writer have less justification for their sexualized nature than even the specific examples he's lambasting. There is no reasonable set of standards you could create wherein Cortana is problematic but Chloe is not.

His take is dumb and hypocritical, and I don't understand why you and OP are taking it upon yourselfs to keep reaching for straws by continuously recontextualizing and re-interpreting what he said. You're not his PR team, you can admit that his take is an ill-thought-out piece of rhetoric.

Technically, they do bring out certain behaviors in men. You can see right now that people are upset that he's not making "attractive" characters.

Cortonana is going to attract men based on her appearance than Chloe. It doesn't matter if she has a backstory because the sexualized nature is there.

You can deny it all you want, but they designed the characters to attract a male audience. I don't think it's anything wrong it it, but I'm willing to admit these things.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

My problem is with ruining perfectly good IP by forcing hard left wing dogma into it. If you want to make a game like that from scratch then be my guest, but don't ruin already established games with it.

But they wont because they are authoritarian by nature and want everyone to accept their message.

 

[Woggleman]

How is not authoritarian to tell the creator of an IP what to do with it? At the end of the day it is his intellectual property.

 

[Whitesnake]

Technically, they do bring out certain behaviors in men. You can see right now that people are upset that he's not making "attractive" characters.

That's a pretty wild mischaracterization of what people are saying. No one is of the belief that all characters need to be sexy. Ellie certainly doesn't look like she would be on the cover of Maxim, but nobody takes issue with her.

Characters who are ugly are going to get responded to accordingly. Most people are making memes of Abbie because despite being a young woman, she looks like a grown man. This is compounded by the fact that it's pretty obvious that she looks like that because Druckmann wanted to promote "unconventional beauty" or whatever and instead just created a laughingstock.

It is not the lack of sexy characters, it is the context surrounding this particular ugly character.

Cortonana is going to attract men based on her appearance than Chloe. It doesn't matter if she has a backstory because the sexualized nature is there.

So the standard is based on how sexy it is? Characters aren't allowed to be above a certain cup size or have a thigh gap or what?

Druckmann's ideology is fundamentally flawed. That's why, despite your attempts, you will never be able to recontextualize it in a way that makes it sound reasonable.

It's not reasonable.

You can deny it all you want, but they designed the characters to attract a male audience. I don't think it's anything wrong it it, but I'm willing to admit these things.

Where exactly have I denied anything of the sort? I haven't acknowledged this point because it's like saying water is wet. Yes, sexually attractive characters are designed to have people be sexually attracted to them. That's kinda the point. Everyone already knows this, but you seem to believe it's a profound statement.

And if you agree there's nothing wrong with it, then why are running PR for a man who quite literally believes it's a detriment to our society? That's not him stating his personal preferences, he's telling you he believes these female characters' bodies amplify problems in our society.

That's a dumb take to have, and most importantly it comes with implication that people who disagree with him are "part of the problem".

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Technically, they do bring out certain behaviors in men. You can see right now that people are upset that he's not making "attractive" characters.

Cortonana is going to attract men based on her appearance than Chloe. It doesn't matter if she has a backstory because the sexualized nature is there.

You can deny it all you want, but they designed the characters to attract a male audience. I don't think it's anything wrong it it, but I'm willing to admit these things.

That may be a a misrepresentation of the argument. Niel can make who ever he wants the way he wants.

When he shares his view in the creative process and how he sees the market he works in, he is open to criticism.

Without going into spoilers for 2 you really can't go much deeper than, "besides being a little psychopathic firecracker, Ellie was gay too... huh... ok."

 

[DForce]

That's a pretty wild mischaracterization of what people are saying. No one is of the belief that all characters need to be sexy. Ellie certainly doesn't look like she would be on the cover of Maxim, but nobody takes issue with her.

Characters who are ugly are going to get responded to accordingly. Most people are making memes of Abbie because despite being a young woman, she looks like a grown man. This is compounded by the fact that it's pretty obvious that she looks like that because Druckmann wanted to promote "unconventioonal beauty" or whatever and instead just created a laughingstock.

It is not the lack of sexy characters, it is the context surrounding this particular ugly character.

That's your personal belief that the character is ugly. People consider Nadine ugly, but that's their opinion. You believe that are making these characters "ugly" on purpose, which is ridiculous. This is en entirely subjective matter because people don't feel the same way as you do.

I always see women who have muscles always get accused of being manly or trying to a man. Many guys find them attractive whiles others don't. So it's all subjective.

So the standard is based on how sexy it is? Characters aren't allowed to be above a certain cup size or have a thigh gap or what?

Druckmann's ideology is fundamentally flawed. That's why, despite your attempts, you will never be able to decontextualize it in a way that makes it sound reasonable.

It's not reasonable.

People call MK 10 and MK 11 characters "ugly" because they're covered up in comparison to MK 9.

Where exactly have I denied anything of the sort? I haven't acknowledged this point because it's like saying water is wet. Yes, sexually attractive characters are designed to have people be sexually attracted to them. That's kinda the point. Everyone already knows this, but you seem to believe it's a profound statement.

And if you agree there's nothing wrong with it, then why are running PR for a man who quite literally believes it's a detriment to our society? That's not him stating his personal preferences, he's telling you he believes these female characters' bodies amplify problems in our society.

That's a dumb take to have, and most importantly it comes with implication that people who disagree with him are "part of the problem".

It's really not my fault that you don't understand what he's saying. If he said people shouldn't make sexualized female characters, then he would've told the person how it's not right to make sexualized female characters.

 

[The Alien]

Do you really think Ellie is a good role model?

Right.

Yet the same people who supported a lesbian character's post-apocalyptic journey by purchasing 8 million copies of the first game are now homophobes.

Got it.

 

[Macapala]

Ellie.... a role model??? She's a fucking murderer!!

Cuckma'am is a hack.

 

[Whitesnake]

That's your personal belief that the character is ugly.

Yeah. So?

Again, nobody said he can't make ugly characters. People are just making fun of this particular character because they're ugly. If you believe those two sentiments are identical then there's nothing I can so to help you understand.

I always see women who have muscles always get accused of being manly or trying to a man. Many guys find them attractive whiles others don't. So it's all subjective.

I like muscular women. I like them a lot, actually.

Issue is Abby doesn't look like a muscular woman, she looks like a man.

People call MK 10 and MK 11 characters "ugly" because they're covered up in comparison to MK 9.

I wouldn't call them ugly (except maybe sheeva), but they've explicitly confirmed that they toned down the sexiness in MK11.

That statement also nothing to do with my point of Druckmann's standards not making any sense. You seem deathly afraid of addressing that point.

It's really not my fault that you don't understand what he's saying. If he said people shouldn't make sexualized female characters, then he would've told the person how it's not right to make sexualized female characters.

He describes the existence of sex appeal in female characters as "misogynistic", "marginilizing", and implies that their sexuality means they're not fit to be role models.

If you were to ask him whether or not he thinks misogyny and marginalization are acceptable in our society, what do you think his answer would be?

If he wants to get rid of misogyny and marginalization, and he thinks titillating caharcters designs are both of those things, then one can logically conclude that he would prefer titillating designs not exist in our society at all.

Unless you think he believes both of those traits are good things?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Abby's a women?

 

[DForce]

Yeah. So?

Again, nobody said he can't make ugly characters. People are just making fun of this particular character because they're ugly. If you believe those two sentiments are identical then there's nothing I can so to help you understand.

I like muscular women. I like them a lot, actually.

Issue is Abby doesn't look like a muscular woman, she looks like a man.

Again, subjective. It's your opinion. That doesn't make it a fact.

I wouldn't call them ugly (except maybe sheeva), but they've explicitly confirmed that they toned down the sexiness in MK11.

That statement also nothing to do with my point of Druckmann's standards not making any sense. You seem deathly afraid of addressing that point.

I'm addressing it, but you're unable to understand the point. I can't sit here and try to explain it 10 different ways to help you understand where he's coming from.

He describes the existence of sex appeal in female characters as "misogynistic", "marginilizing", and implies that their sexuality means they're not fit to be role models.

If you were to ask him whether or not he thinks misogyny and marginalization are acceptable in our society, what do you think his answer would be?

If he wants to get rid of misogyny and marginalization, and he thinks titillating caharcters designs are both of those things, then one can logically conclude that he would prefer titillating designs not exist in our society at all.

Unless you think he believes both of those traits are good things?

He wouldn't. What also matters what he means by "misogynistic." It's likely he's referring to being prejudice against women. If ND makes a fighting game featuring a brand new female characters, people might complain as to why all the women in the game are "ugly" and they're not sexy enough. That attitude can be influenced based on other fighting game characters we see in video games. That's his belief if we see too many sexualized female characters, but that STILL doesn't mean he thinks no one should design a sexualized female character.

 

[oagboghi2]

Again, subjective. It's your opinion. That doesn't make it a fact.


I'm addressing it, but you're unable to understand the point. I can't sit here and try to explain it 10 different ways to help you understand where he's coming from.


He wouldn't. What also matters what he means by "misogynistic." It's likely he's referring to being prejudice against women. If ND makes a fighting game featuring a brand new female characters, people might complain as to why all the women in the game are "ugly" and they're not sexy enough. That attitude can be influenced based on other fighting game characters we see in video games. That's his belief if we see too many sexualized female characters, but that STILL doesn't mean he thinks no one should design a sexualized female character.

Are you purposely trying to avoid white snakes argument?

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Issue is Abby doesn't look like a muscular woman, she looks like a man.

When she was first introduced in 2017, not a single peep about her looking like a man. And again, hung up on appearance. A superficial critique that tells me nothing of her personhood.

 

[DForce]

Are you purposely trying to avoid white snakes argument?

He can't turn his opinion into a fact. A person being attractive is subjective and I don't know why you don't understand that.

Neil prefers his characters to be nonsexualized when it comes to their costume design, and that's not a problem

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

He can't turn his opinion into a fact. A person being attractive is subjective and I don't know why you don't understand that.

Neil prefers his characters to be nonsexualized when it comes to their costume design, and that's not a problem

Do you see him claiming his opinion as a fact? That's just you projecting to avoid his argument

And I think you mean nonattractive.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

When she was first introduced in 2017, not a single peep about her looking like a man. And again, hung up on appearance. A superficial critique that tells me nothing of her personhood.

Directly quoting someone and then referencing the reactions of others isn't a way to make your argument.

You are not good at this whole making a coherent argument thing are you?

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Directly quoting someone and then referencing the reactions of others isn't a way to make your argument.

You are not good at this whole making a coherent argument thing are you?

Not just the reactions of others. The reactions of everybody. Show me a single person who was complaining about this character we were introduced to in 2017 looking like a man. Hell, there was WIDE speculation that it was Ellie's mom.

 

[Papa]

So you'd prefer your daughter with big tits and a small waist?

Hell yeah I want my daughter to be hot because it means her mother is probably hot. I'm all about dem genes brah.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Not just the reactions of others. The reactions of everybody. Show me a single person who was complaining about this character we were introduced to in 2017 looking like a man. Hell, there was WIDE speculation that it was Ellie's mom.

That isn't my argument nor is it my job to prove your assertion. You can't make up counter points to arguments that weren't made and expect me to capitulate to you.

Your a bad faith poster. I can't believe anything you have said this entire thread that you created because you refuse to engage with what is being said by others past using it to spring board another nonsensical statement after another.

 

[Papa]

Honestly, I don't think anything's changed between TLoU, Uncharted 4 and TLoU2. They've always been like this. Even dating back to Uncharted 1, I saw people complimenting the female characters and their lack of sexualization.

Naughty Dog's always been like this.

Chloe and Elena were still feminine. I played the entire game without ever suspecting they were hiding a giant dong.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Not one of those most beloved female characters, she is hasn't been out that long. Anyways if reading how he works and he likes politics SJW stuff in his games, all that told me was to just not buy ANY ND game, hell maybe not any Sony exclusives (unless they remake Legend Of Dragoon).

 

[Whitesnake]

When she was first introduced in 2017, not a single peep about her looking like a man. And again, hung up on appearance. A superficial critique that tells me nothing of her personhood.

I wasn't critiquing her personhood.

I'm explicitly talking about what she looks like. No more, no less.

She looks like a man.

I also haven't paying much attention LoU2 news until now (LoU1 wasn't my cup of tea) so I only learned about her through the leaks.

 

[TriSuit666]

I do have a problem with people equating sexuality to weakness. I understand the "male gaze" argument, but I think owning your sexuality and being brave enough to flaunt it can be empowering.

Certainly this point is important wrt Cortana, because the AI's are given the ability to choose how they represent themselves, it's just Druckman misrepresents that point to ram home his poorly thought out ideological opinion.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

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