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[finowns]

Why? they've never been great to the UK (though neither has china or russia.)

Never been great to the UK?! I have to hear this.

 

[hariseldon]

Arguably the best indicator of the wulhan virus impact (some of it is indirect, e.g. caused people not going to see a doctor fearing to get infected): increase in the number of deaths. Official figures are close to real:




EU is a weak counterbalance to Russia, but that "poor southern nations" is getting annoying.
The whole "apologies, Italy" was pandering to a successful PR campaign.
It was about weeks, when C19 suddenly become scary and NONE of Italy's neighbors was sure it wouldn't hit them the same way WITHIN DAYS.

What kind of leader would send out medical equipment/medics in this situation?

Where was the solidarity from the Northern states? However, actually I was referring more to the economic side of things, pre-covid, as covid is just the latest manifestation of an EU that kicks the can down the road instead of dealing with issues. The EU screwed Greece at the cost of hundreds of lives as suicide rates skyrocketed and poverty reached lethal levels. Its actions led to the 'technocrat' government in Italy, against the democratic wishes of the people. The ECB sets its financial policies for Germany, not for the south, which can do nothing to ameliorate its debt problems. The EU has long been inadequate, covid is just another manifestation of that inadequacy.

 

[pLow7]

Arguably the best indicator of the wulhan virus impact (some of it is indirect, e.g. caused people not going to see a doctor fearing to get infected): increase in the number of deaths. Official figures are close to real:




EU is a weak counterbalance to Russia, but that "poor southern nations" is getting annoying.
The whole "apologies, Italy" was pandering to a successful PR campaign.
It was about weeks, when C19 suddenly become scary and NONE of Italy's neighbors was sure it wouldn't hit them the same way WITHIN DAYS.

What kind of leader would send out medical equipment/medics in this situation?

This "cause people to not see a doctor and get infected" including some people ( Like that bullshit german BMI paper ) that say that people weren't getting important operations and died could be exageratted if we look at some data we have:

As you can remember, i already posted the differences in deaths between March Avg. 2015-2019 and 2020 by using some cities in the North that where particularly hit by this. Now keep in mind, the whole country went into full Lockdown, not only the North of Italy. Southern part of Italy incl. Rome didn't get hit by a Corona-virus Wave, numbers where really low, which is extremely fortunate since the southern part of italy has really bad infrastructure.

But if we look at the Numbers, we see that Deaths went down in southern Italy. And in some cases like Rome, even by 9,7%.

A marzo mortalità aumentata del 49,4%, ma il virus lascia un'Italia spaccata: Bergamo +568%, Roma -9,4%

I dati dell'Istat certificano la realtà di un Paese segnato molto diversamente dal passaggio del Covid 19: in 36 province il dato è raddoppia…

www.repubblica.it

Granted, this numbers of course does not include people that perhaps would have normally gone to see the doctor and wouldn't and in the process will die in the following years because the lack of threatment. I think we can only look at that retrospectively in a few Years. But things like "Many people that had a Stroke etc. and didn't go to a hospital died cause of this" are not backed by numbers.

 

[llien]

But if we look at the Numbers, we see that Deaths went down in southern Italy. And in some cases like Rome, even by 9,7%.

Note the difference in scale.
Numbers fluctuate from year to year.
When it went down it was by 10%. When it went up it was by hundreds. We can't compare the two.

Where was the solidarity from the Northern states?

So Italy is hit surprisingly hard, seemingly out of blue, surely nobody expected it, everyone around it is scared and expects to get hit within days... exactly what kind of "solidarity" was missing, let alone from "Northern states" specifically?

The ECB sets its financial policies for Germany, not for the south, which can do nothing to ameliorate its debt problems.

You are mixing EU and Euro zone, Poland, for instance, is in EU, but not in Euro zone.
Greece was spending more than it could afford, it's Greek government fucking up things up not some mystical greedy bastards in the north being guilty of not gifting them money.

The rest is just slogans from anti-EU camp, better than BoJo red bus slogans, which was outright lies, but still cheap.
Naturally, when someone goes from acting on his own to acting as a group, things stop being tailored for a single person. Ignoring the other side of it, such as zero currency risks for business and much more efficient cross border activities, could present it in negative light.

 

[hariseldon]

Note the difference in scale.
Numbers fluctuate from year to year.
When it went down it was by 10%. When it went up it was by hundreds.


So Italy is hit surprisingly hard, seemingly out of blue, surely nobody expected it, everyone around it is scared and expects to get hit within days... exactly what kind of "solidarity" was missing, let alone from "Northern states" specifically?


You are mixing EU and Euro zone, Poland, for instance, is in EU, but not in Euro zone.
Greece was spending more than it could afford, it's Greek government fucking up things up not some mystical greedy bastards in the north being guilty of not gifting them money.

The rest is just slogans from anti-EU camp, better than BoJo red bus slogans, which was outright lies, but still cheap.
Naturally, when someone goes from acting on his own to acting as a group, things stop being tailored for a single person. Ignoring the other side of it, such as zero currency risks for business and much more efficient cross border activities, could present it in negative light.

Consider the failure to provide any kind of material support, combined with the later refusal to run coronabonds as needed by the southern states. Come now, you can do better. Do I have to tell you about each individual EU policy? Or are you just sealioning?

Greece was spending too much, undoubtedly, with its overly-generous pension schemes but the point is that the way it was dealt with was utterly inhumane. Still, I'm glad you think that causing hundreds of deaths is just an anti-EU slogan. As for acting as a group instead of an individual, does that mean that if the group decides to throw an individual under the bus it's ok? And do you honestly think that policies focused on Germany's economy will match the vastly-different economies of the southern states? The EU should never have been constructed that way - it should have been first blocks that were relatively homogenous (ie northern states in block a, eastern in block b and southern in block c, roughly) and then slowly brought together, but for idealistic reasons this was not done. Oh and as a bonus the poorest states are the ones having to enforce the EU's borders (doubly important during a pandemic) with little support from the EU.

 

[Jezbollah]

Between the Med migrant crisis and the lack of support for COVD19, I can see an EU referendum in Italy in the near future.

 

[hariseldon]

Coronavirus: Frontline workers first to get ‘game‑changing’ antibody test

A test to tell whether someone has had Covid-19 has passed Public Health England checks in a long-awaited development that Boris Johnson previously said would be a “game-changer”.The blood test detects antibodies in patients who have been exposed to the virus, even if they never developed symptoms.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Previously we tried to get tests but found them not up to the job (and this has been an ongoing issue throughout the pandemic - lots of suppliers incapable of producing quality product especially in the field of PPE but importantly in testing too). Quoting due to paywall.

Coronavirus: 'Game-changing' antibody test gets green light for widespread use
A test to tell whether someone has had Covid-19 has passed Public Health England checks in a long-awaited development that Boris Johnson previously said would be a "game-changer".

The blood test detects antibodies in patients who have been exposed to the virus, even if they never developed symptoms. The approval paves the way for it to be used as part of a mass NHS antibody testing programme.

This will allow officials to gauge how extensively the virus has spread and could give those who test positive more freedom under mooted plans for "immunity passports". Experts expect those who have had Covid-19 to be immune for two or three years.

There is a chance that it could lead to the lockdown being lifted earlier if it shows that large swathes of the population have been unknowingly infected.

"The great thing about having a test to see whether you've had it, is suddenly a green light goes on above your head and you can go back to work safe and confident in the knowledge that you are most unlikely to get it again," Mr Johnson said of the test in March. "So for an economic point of view, from a social point of view, it really could be a game-changer."

Edward Argar, a junior health minister, told BBC Breakfast: "It's only just gone through the Public Health England assessment as being reliable, as doing the job, and therefore we are having discussions. But we are keen to get as many as quickly as we can and get them out, primarily to the front line first, the NHS, social care and then more widely. Because this really will be — as the prime minister said — this has the potential to be a game-changer."

Roche, the Swiss pharmaceutical company, is talking to the government about how its test will be incorporated into the country's testing programme but it has indicated that it can supply hundreds of thousands of kits a week.

Matt Hancock, the health secretary, added last week that the UK was in talks with Roche about a "very large-scale roll-out" of the antibody tests.

John Newton, the national co-ordinator of the programme, said: "Last week, scientific experts at PHE Porton Down carried out an independent evaluation of the new Roche SARS-CoV-2 serology assay in record time, concluding that it is a highly specific assay with specificity of 100 per cent. This is a very positive development because such a highly specific antibody test is a very reliable marker of past infection. This in turn may indicate some immunity to future infection, although the extent to which the presence of antibodies indicates immunity remains unclear."

A spokeswoman for the Department of Health and Social Care said: "We are exploring the use of antibody testing across the NHS and ultimately the wider public. We are delighted that devices are progressing through validation, and are actively working on our plans for rolling out antibody testing and will make announcements in due course."

A specificity of 100 per cent means that there are no false positives, so no one is identified as having the antibodies who actually does not. Previous antibody tests ordered in mid-March failed to pass accuracy tests. The new Roche antibody kit also received emergency approval in the United States last week.

Dr Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organisation's health emergencies programme, said that no one could predict when the disease would disappear. "We have a new virus entering the human population for the first time, and therefore it is very hard to predict when we will prevail over it," he told a digital conference run by the Financial Times.

"And it is important to put this on the table: this virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities. And this virus may never go away. HIV has not gone away; we've come to terms with the virus and we have found the therapies and we found the prevention methods, and people don't feel as scared as they did before and we're offering long healthy life to people with HIV."

Jeremy Hunt, chairman of the health and social committee, said that the government's response to the pandemic had been impaired by "too much secrecy" over the scientific advice it received.

He said that there should be questions as to why Sage, the government's scientific advisory group for emergencies, did not model the South Korean approach of test, track and trace, telling the Today programme: "Had we been much more public, as the Bank of England is with interest rate decisions, those oversights wouldn't have been made."

Mr Hunt accepted some responsibility for the lack of testing capacity at the beginning of the outbreak, admitting that when he had been health secretary "we were over-focused on pandemic flu and not on Sars-like viruses".

It is an essential component of the herd-immunity strategy, and vital to the government having adequate data given it has been flying blind for much of this crisis with insufficient information.

And in a sign that the government is going to put some effort into breaking China's stranglehold and bring critical infrastructure home (or at least not depend on a single hostile state)..

UK is too dependent on China for critical goods, Tories warn

Britain is too dependent on China for imports that are key to critical national infrastructure and the economy, a conservative think tank has concluded.Active pharmaceutical ingredients needed to make painkillers, antibiotics and anti-viral drugs are among the 71 critical goods for which the UK re

www.thetimes.co.uk

UK is too dependent on China for critical goods, Tories warn


Britain is too dependent on China for imports that are key to critical national infrastructure and the economy, a conservative think tank has concluded.

Active pharmaceutical ingredients needed to make painkillers, antibiotics and anti-viral drugs are among the 71 critical goods for which the UK relies heavily on Beijing for supplies, according to the Henry Jackson Society. Industrial chemicals, metal products and consumer electronics including mobile phones and laptops are also on the list of items.

More than 20 Conservative MPs are seeking an amendment to the trade bill going through the Commons in the wake of the reports' findings, The Times can reveal. They have written to Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, calling on the government to conduct an annual audit of the imported goods for which it is strategically dependent on authoritarian states such as China, and to prioritise new trade deals that reduce this dependency.

The letter was written by Bob Seely, who also leads a group of MPs critical of Huawei, and has been signed by the former cabinet ministers Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis and Owen Paterson. The 22 MPs believe that the Covid-19 pandemic has prompted all nations to reassess their approach to trade and supply security. Britain is among those that have placed restrictions on the export of crucial goods, as it has struggled to source personal protective equipment and other kit.

The Henry Jackson Society, which has long taken a hawkish stance on China, said that the Chinese Communist Party's handling of the coronavirus crisis, in which it has attempted "to avoid responsibility and accountability by deflecting blame and suppressing criticism", should call into question the country's reliability.

The think tank has analysed international trade data to identify the categories in which the UK is a net importer, relies on China for more than 50 per cent of imports, and in which China has a greater than 30 per cent market share of global trade.

The report concluded that Britain was "strategically dependent" on China in 289 categories of the internationally-recognised "harmonised system" of product classification. Of these, 71 were categories crucial to critical infrastructure and the economy. The think tank repeated the exercise for the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand — the other nations in the Five Eyes alliance, the closest intelligence-sharing group in the world. Collectively, the five powers were dependent on China in 5,910 categories of goods, of which 319 were essential for critical industries.

The think tank concluded that this left all of these states vulnerable to Beijing's influence, as it accused China of increasingly resorting to "wolf warrior diplomacy" based on crude bullying and threats. The five nations should urgently prioritise "decoupling" trade from China in goods linked to critical industries, it said.

Public attitudes towards China appear to be hardening in the UK, according to a Survation poll commissioned by the think tank last month. In light of the Covid-19 crisis, 63 per cent of Britons said that they supported the idea of the government adopting a tougher trade, investment and security policy towards China. Sixty-two per cent said that they supported the government bringing back manufacturing of medical supplies from China.

In an article for The Times Red Box today, Mr Seely said: "Those that govern us need to wake up to the new reality and stop clinging to a future consigned to history. We need to reduce our dependency on China and collectively negotiate a new future with Beijing that respects our economic, ethic and political values, not undermines them. That is the best way for us, and for the Chinese state."

 

[MisterFalcon]

Japan suicides decline as Covid-19 lockdown causes shift in stress factors

April’s 20% drop compared with a year earlier may be the result of delays to start of school year, less commuting and more time with family

www.theguardian.com

Turns out lockdowns do not lead to more suicides then they save in prevented infections after all.

 

[llien]

Consider the failure to provide any kind of material support

Let me assume, that solidarity is about being part of some block and not just being a neighbor.
Now let me ask for the THIRD TIME, let's say you are a head of any of the countries you just put blame on (I recall, it had to be EU country and it had to be in the north, why the heck not), Italy goes from no problem into dear god, people are dying en mass within days. Nobody knows what happens next, most likely scenario is that everyone will get hit hard. Your move as a head of the country "showing solidarity" please.

...refusal to run coronabonds as needed by the southern states...

Refusal to have rules as loose as someone in southern states, that tend to spend more than they earn, has requested.

Greece was spending too much, undoubtedly, with its overly-generous pension schemes but the point is that the way it was dealt with was utterly inhumane. Still, I'm glad you think that causing hundreds of deaths is just an anti-EU slogan.

Greece was spending left and right and not only on pension schemes, they have hordes of people doing nothing "working for the government". Greek government was LYING about finances for years.
UK was free to land a hand and give Greek government more money to waste at its terms. I don't recall that happening and I remember it was before Brexit and it's not like bond by Greek government were only offered to eurozone countries.

Mere 100 billion debt relief (money gifted) was negotiated by evil germano-european bastards.

That, besides "sustainable fiscal policy causes deaths" being one hell of an argument and Greece having one of the lowest suicide rates in the world and suicide rates among females dropping in 2010.

I sense there is more chance of the pope converting to Buddhism than of us agreeing on this so I'll leave it here and maybe we can shit up some other thread.

Discussion is not about agreeing, but about arguments. questions and answers. When basic question is asked 3 times and gets no answer, there is no discussion.

 

[hariseldon]

I sense there is more chance of the pope converting to Buddhism than of us agreeing on this so I'll leave it here and maybe we can shit up some other thread.

 

[Jezbollah]

Really good news about the antibody test. Let's manifacture the fuck out of it and test EVERYONE.

 

[Bullet Club]

 

[pel1300]

Japan suicides decline as Covid-19 lockdown causes shift in stress factors

April’s 20% drop compared with a year earlier may be the result of delays to start of school year, less commuting and more time with family

www.theguardian.com

Turns out lockdowns do not lead to more suicides then they save in prevented infections after all.

What is this BS? Japan is NOT under lock down. My friend in Tokyo is going to the park everyday. Says it feels not much has changed.

 

[Lanrutcon]

So the President of my country alluded to extending the lockdown for certain regions based on Corona numbers last night, with official word coming soon. Today my company sent out notifications of retrenchments.

I think I'm fine based on what my manager says, but until I get the official email I'll be anxious.

Fun times, but I live in commercial heart of my country and we're second in number of infected due to population density. Kinda saw it coming.

 

[Nymphae]

WHO: Herd immunity for the coronavirus is a 'dangerous concept'

Herd immunity is an epidemiological term usually reserved to describe how the population as a whole is protected from a disease

www.telegraph.co.uk

Asked about the concept being applied to the Covid-19 pandemic, the WHO said "no-one is safe until everyone is safe" and it is "dangerous" to think that countries can "magically reach herd immunity".

 

[hariseldon]

WHO: Herd immunity for the coronavirus is a 'dangerous concept'

Herd immunity is an epidemiological term usually reserved to describe how the population as a whole is protected from a disease

www.telegraph.co.uk

The WHO are fucking useless. There's nothing 'magical' about herd immunity, it's how immunisation programs have worked for decades. Absolute fuckmuppets of the highest order - it's like they're deliberately giving bad advice so China can kerbstomp the west.

 

[Stouffers]

Japan suicides decline as Covid-19 lockdown causes shift in stress factors

April’s 20% drop compared with a year earlier may be the result of delays to start of school year, less commuting and more time with family

www.theguardian.com

Turns out lockdowns do not lead to more suicides then they save in prevented infections after all.

..in Japan.

 

[Jooxed]

So the President of my country alluded to extending the lockdown for certain regions based on Corona numbers last night, with official word coming soon. Today my company sent out notifications of retrenchments.

I think I'm fine based on what my manager says, but until I get the official email I'll be anxious.

Fun times, but I live in commercial heart of my country and we're second in number of infected due to population density. Kinda saw it coming.

Stay safe man.

 

[diffusionx]

The WHO are fucking useless. There's nothing 'magical' about herd immunity, it's how immunisation programs have worked for decades. Absolute fuckmuppets of the highest order - it's like they're deliberately giving bad advice so China can kerbstomp the west.

*millenia

The way these esteemed experts keep doubling down, ratcheting up hysteria, it's wild.

Nobody has explained to me why this COVID-19 virus is where all the concepts of epidemiology, developed over generations, fails to apply. And the only solution is to be really scared and literally lock yourself in your home forever.

 

[hariseldon]

'If we look at under 25s, there are 17 million of them in the country. We have had 26 deaths recorded and again many will have had other conditions. That's still just one or two per million... Let's compare it with the over-nineties, now more than one per cent of the over-nineties in this country have so far died from Covid-19, just in four weeks essentially. So that's a substantial proportion. That is 10,000 times the risk of the younger people.'
– Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter saying Covid-19's risk to pensioners is up to 10,000 times the risk to 10-year-olds.

 

[The Incarnation]

Probably 25mcg

or 1000iu.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[NorwayBot]

The WHO are fucking useless. There's nothing 'magical' about herd immunity, it's how immunisation programs have worked for decades. Absolute fuckmuppets of the highest order - it's like they're deliberately giving bad advice so China can kerbstomp the west.

They're afraid of the term "herd immunity" because that reminds "them", the professional medical community, that they're not the ones wielding the power over life or death, Darwinism is, - survival of the fittest. (read immune system)

Herd immunity will be established whatever WHO think of concepts or not. Let's hope it is done through a vaccine, but you know if not.........................let's roll.

 

[ManaByte]

Mayor Garcetti Plans To Keep The City Locked Up Until We Have A Cure | KFI AM 640 | The John Kobylt Show

Listen to John Kobylt Weekdays from 1 PM - 4 PM on KFI AM 640!

kfiam640.iheart.com

The City of Los Angeles is lying to us.


These restrictions are going to be DRAGGED out. No matter what we do, no matter how much the curve flattens, it just keeps going on.

The mayor of Los Angeles said we will be able to loosen restrictions within the next few months.

Well, he then joined Good Morning America and now he is claiming the city will never be fully opened until there is a cure for COVID-19.

 

[Sakura]

Coronavirus: Frontline workers first to get ‘game‑changing’ antibody test

A test to tell whether someone has had Covid-19 has passed Public Health England checks in a long-awaited development that Boris Johnson previously said would be a “game-changer”.The blood test detects antibodies in patients who have been exposed to the virus, even if they never developed symptoms.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Previously we tried to get tests but found them not up to the job (and this has been an ongoing issue throughout the pandemic - lots of suppliers incapable of producing quality product especially in the field of PPE but importantly in testing too). Quoting due to paywall.



It is an essential component of the herd-immunity strategy, and vital to the government having adequate data given it has been flying blind for much of this crisis with insufficient information.

And in a sign that the government is going to put some effort into breaking China's stranglehold and bring critical infrastructure home (or at least not depend on a single hostile state)..

UK is too dependent on China for critical goods, Tories warn

Britain is too dependent on China for imports that are key to critical national infrastructure and the economy, a conservative think tank has concluded.Active pharmaceutical ingredients needed to make painkillers, antibiotics and anti-viral drugs are among the 71 critical goods for which the UK re

www.thetimes.co.uk

I'd figure the UK is probably around 8 to 12% already/currently infected.
Herd immunity strategy is a hard sell when you still got so long to go.

 

[hariseldon]

I'd figure the UK is probably around 8 to 12% already/currently infected.
Herd immunity strategy is a hard sell when you still got so long to go.

Not such a hard sell if you get all the low-risk people out there spreading it hard and fast to each other while shielding the rest - if you go for the under-25s only being out there, with a VERY low death rate (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/coro...n-got-you-all-in-check.1521975/post-258168144) you can get a good kick-start, then let the 25-30s out and so on up to such a point as you have bloody good immunity and the virus has nowhere to go. With corona-parties for the young you could get this done pretty quickly.

 

[synchronicity]

They're afraid of the term "herd immunity" because that reminds "them", the professional medical community, that they're not the ones wielding the power over life or death, Darwinism is, - survival of the fittest. (read immune system)

Herd immunity will be established whatever WHO think of concepts or not. Let's hope it is done through a vaccine, but you know if not.........................let's roll.

Yes, the mainstream medical community is just about the most self-important, unjustifiably pompous group to have ever existed. I'm not talking about *all* individual members that make up the community, but the community as a whole. It's absolutely sickening, and hilarious to me.

 

[Sakura]

Not such a hard sell if you get all the low-risk people out there spreading it hard and fast to each other while shielding the rest - if you go for the under-25s only being out there, with a VERY low death rate (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/coro...n-got-you-all-in-check.1521975/post-258168144) you can get a good kick-start, then let the 25-30s out and so on up to such a point as you have bloody good immunity and the virus has nowhere to go. With corona-parties for the young you could get this done pretty quickly.

This is way easier said than done though. Many younger people live with older families. Much of the workforce and a large portion of the economy is driven by people 50+.
I have absolutely zero confidence a government could properly facilitate such a strategy.
I feel it's more likely that by the time you get herd immunity there is already a vaccine, and a bunch of people died for no real reason.

On the other hand there probably isn't a whole lot you can do unless you are willing to take super draconian measures.

 

[hariseldon]

This is way easier said than done though. Many younger people live with older families. Much of the workforce and a large portion of the economy is driven by people 50+.
I have absolutely zero confidence a government could properly facilitate such a strategy.
I feel it's more likely that by the time you get herd immunity there is already a vaccine, and a bunch of people died for no real reason.

On the other hand there probably isn't a whole lot you can do unless you are willing to take super draconian measures.

I'd say there'll be a reasonable chunk of the population who can still do this - more if you ensure they don't have contact with their grandparents while it runs its course - and bearing in mind the death rate under 25 is absolutely miniscule, we're not talking about a lot of deaths, very very few, especially compared to the likely deaths caused by the economic impact. People have adapted with considerable discipline to staying at home, something that would have been thought impossible previously, so the idea that you couldn't get all healthy under-25s (or at least a useful percentage of them) and work up through the age groups is not impossible and it would do a cracking job of starving the virus of oxygen. Remember, the vaccine might not come in time to save the economy from total collapse.

 

[Rat Rage]

Micrograms. You know what I mean.

You can safely take 50 mcg, which is 2000 I.E vitamin D.

 

[iconmaster]

The New York Times is starting to realize that, whupz, maybe a total lockdown is a bad plan.

Opinion | How to Reopen America Safely (Published 2020)

Months ago, I called for a long lockdown. Now we must minimize collateral damage.

www.nytimes.com

In late April, the United Nations World Food Program reported that 250 million people may face starvation as a result of the economic impact of Covid-19. In America, local food banks are already congested with record wait times. There are other serious consequences of continuing stay-at-home orders and prolonging economic disruption. Deferred medical care, mental health problems, domestic violence and one of the biggest pre-Covid-19 public health problems in the United States — loneliness — are all magnified by in-home sheltering. The economic and public health harm associated with sheltering is yet to be fully measured.

While I'm facepalming internally, I'm also glad to see progressives waking up to this.

 

[Hydroxy]

I don't agree with herd immunity strategy but also don't expect vaccine to be available for the next 2 years and even it its available the ideq of vaccinating the entire world is a logistical nightmare so its seems an impossible task as well.

 

[rykomatsu]

I don't agree with herd immunity strategy but also don't expect vaccine to be available for the next 2 years and even it its available the ideq of vaccinating the entire world is a logistical nightmare so its seems an impossible task as well.

The only strategy is herd immunity. A lot of people don't seem to realize this, but when it became evident that China and WHO colluded and were not forthcoming with valid and correct information, there has never been any other strategy. It will be by natural exposure / selection AND vaccination. Anyone who tells you otherwise is feeding you unicorn poop with sprinkles.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Japan suicides decline as Covid-19 lockdown causes shift in stress factors

April’s 20% drop compared with a year earlier may be the result of delays to start of school year, less commuting and more time with family

www.theguardian.com

Turns out lockdowns do not lead to more suicides then they save in prevented infections after all.

Most of Japan's suicides are due to hating work/school due to an oppressive environment, forced overwork and long hours, incessant bullying, and power harassment. More people staying home and not being in those environments seems like it would lead to a reduction in suicides to me.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

I love how people are arguing that certain areas should be opened up because they're not reporting a lot of cases. As if the concept of transportation doesn't exist. Opening up an area that isn't hit hard by corona is just going to cause people in surrounding areas to drive to that opened area and most likely increase the case counts in the opened areas.

Edit: I'm listening to the Jim and Sam Show and they had a phone interview with Trump Jr and he mentions how the part of upstate New York he's in has little to no cases and wondering why things are closed. How much of a simpleton do you have to be to not understand people travel?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I love how people are arguing that certain areas should be opened up because they're not reporting a lot of cases. As if the concept of transportation doesn't exist. Opening up an area that isn't hit hard by corona is just going to cause people in surrounding areas to drive to that opened area and most likely increase the case counts in the opened areas.

Edit: I'm listening to the Jim and Sam Show and they had a phone interview with Trump Jr and he mentions how the part of upstate New York he's in has little to no cases and wondering why things are closed. How much of a simpleton do you have to be to not understand people travel?

All you're doing is making an argument that things can literally never be opened again until the virus is somehow magically eradicated.

 

[Joe T.]

I love how people are arguing that certain areas should be opened up because they're not reporting a lot of cases. As if the concept of transportation doesn't exist. Opening up an area that isn't hit hard by corona is just going to cause people in surrounding areas to drive to that opened area and most likely increase the case counts in the opened areas.

Edit: I'm listening to the Jim and Sam Show and they had a phone interview with Trump Jr and he mentions how the part of upstate New York he's in has little to no cases and wondering why things are closed. How much of a simpleton do you have to be to not understand people travel?

That logic would shut the entire world down until every last case was snuffed out and that was never an option because of the deception from the country of origin.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

All you're doing is making an argument that things can literally never be opened again until the virus is somehow magically eradicated.

We need to be very careful - this is going to be a 2-3 year thing. I think people are going to be surprised at the way life will change because of this. Opening up needs to be done gradually and distancing and mask protocol needs to be enforced heavily.

 

[Nymphae]

I love how even when scores of professional experts are stating completely opposite points of view, everyone is a fucking expert on this thing because of their trusted sources.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

We need to be very careful - this is going to be a 2-3 year thing. I think people are going to be surprised at the way life will change because of this. Opening up needs to be done gradually and distancing and mask protocol needs to be enforced heavily.

Or, just be realistic, and focus on protecting vulnerable populations while sensibly opening things up for the rest of the world and recommending things like masks indoors, etc. We need to find a way to live with this thing and locking people up in their homes and killing the economy is simply not the answer.

 

[DeepBreath87]

The only strategy is herd immunity. A lot of people don't seem to realize this, but when it became evident that China and WHO colluded and were not forthcoming with valid and correct information, there has never been any other strategy. It will be by natural exposure / selection AND vaccination. Anyone who tells you otherwise is feeding you unicorn poop with sprinkles.

This is the truth. There is no other way. And people have been so misinformed about the risk of this disease. Its worse than the flu but its not so much worse that we should destroy our society over it. For healthy people under 40, there is very little risk. For them it is essentially the flu, which also kills the random younger person in very rare instances. We need to be allowing the disease to run its course to a certain degree. That is the only long term solution. There is nothing else. We can't plan for things that may never happen, like vaccines or cures.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

I love how even when scores of professional experts are stating completely opposite points of view, everyone is a fucking expert on this thing because of their trusted sources.

Well, this was kind of created by the President when you create a COVID group and then continually counter things they've said and created a lot of confusion, what do you expect.

 

[Liljagare]

You can safely take 50 mcg, which is 2000 I.E vitamin D.

On a sidenote, studies have been done with up to 600000 IU vitamin D administered, You need massive doses to get a toxic effect if you are healthy when it comes to it, only people chugging jars and jars should worry about overdosing.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well, this was kind of created by the President when you create a COVID group and then continually counter things they've said and created a lot of confusion, what do you expect.

Fuck... didn't expect this to be another TDS goober.

Yeah, it's almost like no one knew a goddamn thing about this disease and premiere experts around the world have seen their recommendations/opinions on the matter "evolve" over time.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

Or, just be realistic, and focus on protecting vulnerable populations while sensibly opening things up for the rest of the world and recommending things like masks indoors, etc. We need to find a way to live with this thing and locking people up in their homes and killing the economy is simply not the answer.

Oh for sure and you're going to see that in a lot of states but it's a slow rollout and it should be.

 

[Liljagare]

Or, just be realistic, and focus on protecting vulnerable populations while sensibly opening things up for the rest of the world and recommending things like masks indoors, etc. We need to find a way to live with this thing and locking people up in their homes and killing the economy is simply not the answer.

I would say we simply need to innovate, the biggest hurdle are people who will say "It'll never work" before we even try something.

Innovation is what is needed imho.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

Fuck... didn't expect this to be another TDS goober.

Yeah, it's almost like no one knew a goddamn thing about this disease and premiere experts around the world have seen their recommendations/opinions on the matter "evolve" over time.

TDS?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

TDS?

Trump Derangement Syndrome. Everything is always Trump's fault. Always bringing up Trump even when it's not relevant or barely relevant.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

Trump Derangement Syndrome. Everything is always Trump's fault.

Hardly. If you don't see the issue with how Trump handled this thing, sweet mother. The best thing Trump wanted to do was close flights to China and he got stumped on that but as we found out, the virus was in the states already. The issue is with China and their bullshit lying.

 

[Nymphae]

Hardly. If you don't see the issue with how Trump handled this thing, sweet mother. The best thing Trump wanted to do was close flights to China and he got stumped on that but as we found out, the virus was in the states already. The issue is with China and their bullshit lying.

The failures of the scientific community to provide reliable data, well into this crisis, is more of a concern to me honestly, as are the failings of the WHO and CDC and the media. Nobody handled this well it's a fucking joke, amazing that you can pin it on one man.