Support NeoGAF

[ManaByte]

I'm surprised no robber has taken advantage of the mask law.

>Dress up as pic related
>Show up to store/bank claiming you're a customer
>Steal stuff and run out.

Are you kidding? It's happening all the time in CA now that they've emptied the prisons of the felons and murderers to make room for people who just want to go to work.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

I get it, people are idiots and it is frustrating. But the virus is never going away because that’s just how viruses work.

Nor really? Isolate everyone complete for 1-2 month and the virus would be gone forever.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Went to Costco for the first time in weeks and they were completely out of steaks and hadn't had any in for over a week according to one of the staff. They also had a limit on how many meat items any customer could purchase due to supply problems.

Not a good sign.

Nor really? Isolate everyone complete for 1-2 month and the virus would be gone forever.

That's impossible without some kind of authoritarian all powerful world government.

 

[cryptoadam]

LA has so many test and so few people to give them to that now anyone who wants it can get a test.

Wasn't the mayor saying a few days ago they have to stay closed till August or something?

 

[cryptoadam]

Ya I can't really agree with those people. Putting on a mask when your inside isn't too much to ask. The mask is about protecting others not yourself. If your in your home or in a small group spaced out outside fine whatever enforcing masks is draconian. But inside, especially a store I see no issue. Store is a private establishment and they have the right to set the rules.

 

[diffusionx]

Nor really? Isolate everyone complete for 1-2 month and the virus would be gone forever.

Sure, if By “isolate” you mean lock everyone in their homes, dont let them out, even for food, the government shoots anyone on sight they see walking around. If someone dies in a house, everyone else has to live with the dead body for the entire time.

Do that and maybe the virus is gone forever, unless the people enforcing the isolation have it, which they will.

Edit: and if we have 100% compliance, of course.

 

[Nymphae]

Just thought I would share this book I've been reading with anyone who is interested, it's pretty well researched and it's been a fascinating read so far.

Amazon link

 

[DeepBreath87]

Nor really? Isolate everyone complete for 1-2 month and the virus would be gone forever.

Yeah we could lock everyone down. Except for the people who keep the lights on. And the food on the table. And the people that deliver everything. And anyone who takes care of sick/old people. And whoever watches those people’s kids. And warehouse workers. And gas station attendees. And....

And anytime one of them gets sick, we can start the clock again. In some ideal world, we could do this for a month and eradicate this. But obviously that’s not going to happen

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Yeah we could lock everyone down. Except for the people who keep the lights on. And the food on the table. And the people that deliver everything. And anyone who takes care of sick/old people. And whoever watches those people’s kids. And warehouse workers. And gas station attendees. And....

And anytime one of them gets sick, we can start the clock again. In some ideal world, we could do this for a month and eradicate this. But obviously that’s not going to happen

More like people do not have the guts for it. They would wish they had when they see the second wave. It is very short term pain, 1 month vs months to years. To sovle this we need extreme contract tracing, the level that most american would refuse to do. The idea is when nearly all the people got isolate, we can actually start contract tracing among the essential worker.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Sure, if By “isolate” you mean lock everyone in their homes, dont let them out, even for food, the government shoots anyone on sight they see walking around. If someone dies in a house, everyone else has to live with the dead body for the entire time.

Do that and maybe the virus is gone forever, unless the people enforcing the isolation have it, which they will.

Edit: and if we have 100% compliance, of course.

At that point, we can actually start contract tracing

 

[ManaByte]

Walt Disney World Warns Guests That They “Voluntarily Assume All Risks Related to Exposure to COVID-19” In New Liability Disclaimer - WDW News Today

A daily-updated resource for news and information on the Disney resort around the world.

wdwnt.com

 

[diffusionx]

Walt Disney World Warns Guests That They “Voluntarily Assume All Risks Related to Exposure to COVID-19” In New Liability Disclaimer - WDW News Today

A daily-updated resource for news and information on the Disney resort around the world.

wdwnt.com

I'm fine with this. We are supposed to be free people, after all. Not subjects ruled by Governor Mommy.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

CCP bashing news

 

[DeepBreath87]

More like people do not have the guts for it. They would wish they had when they see the second wave. It is very short term pain, 1 month vs months to years. To sovle this we need extreme contract tracing, the level that most american would refuse to do. The idea is when nearly all the people got isolate, we can actually start contract tracing among the essential worker.

No it’s because it won’t be a month or two. The number of people required to continue working is far too great. It’s not a matter of guts. It’s that the idea is stupid and ignorant of reality.

In order to provide basic living needs to 330 million people, millions will need to continue working. Those millions will continue getting sick even at lower levels. And because this virus is so minor in many people, it is almost impossible to trace at low levels. How do you think it was able to spread for 2-3 months in the United States before people really noticed? So unless you’re testing life sustaining workers almost daily, which would be millions of tests a day, you won’t come close to eradicating the virus. Not to mention an estimated 20% false negative rate on most nasal swab tests.

So you’d constantly have to keep moving reopening back because people are still getting sick. You’d never be sure the virus was at low enough levels to ensure it didn’t come back. Then there’s international travel to consider. It’s the kind of idea that falls apart in 5 minutes because it’s superficial and dumb. It’s not about guts.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Naturally there cannot be international travel during that time period. It is not a dumb idea at all. How do you think China was able to semi get it under control? By forcible locking people up. By having true essential working outside with mandatory mask requirement, not the wish-washing about not mandatory, weekly virus check, eliminating the virus is not a pipe dream. Or we could face with possibility of million of death by the end of the year.

Currently the virus is spreading like a plague in usa is because people are NOT willing to do what's necessary. People refuse to self-isolate even if they were in contract with at risk individual Too many people believe in their entirement that they do not need to wear mask. People in Asia like in South Korea are about to trace it, so why can't we? Let face it, it is entitlement of freedom of privacy. In my city there is still the shelter at home order in place yet every night police have to keep going to at risk area to disspure the people gathering. Stupid District 11.

 

[EviLore]

New York City man arrested in Hawaii after posting beach photos on Instagram

"We appreciate the assistance of local people who spot flagrant violations of our emergency rules on various social media sites and report them to the appropriate authorities," said Hawaii Attorney General Clare Connor.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Tell_men]

New York City man arrested in Hawaii after posting beach photos on Instagram

"We appreciate the assistance of local people who spot flagrant violations of our emergency rules on various social media sites and report them to the appropriate authorities," said Hawaii Attorney General Clare Connor.

www.cbsnews.com

Jesus. It takes an accumulated amount of virus to even get sick. Going outside, it disperses in even the slightest wind. If you’re jogging, you can jog without a mask, but if you come across someone, put on your mask. Try not to trail another jogger, and if you do, put some distance in between you and them. 6 feet minimum, 17 feet preferred.

Arresting people while releasing inmates, this is just idiotic. A person taking photos of empty beaches isn’t a threat. There is more of a threat of transmission during the arrest and being in the same car as an officer as they come into contact with lots of people.

 

[rykomatsu]

So can someone tell me this?

1. Why do coronaphobes want to impose their will onto everyone else? People wanting to or are OK with getting back to normalcy are not forcing coronaphobes to leave their homes nor are they breaking down coronaphobes homes doors and running in and breathing on them...

2. Why do coronaphobes believe everyone shares the same value system as themselves? There are plenty of folks who put a higher value on things more than life itself.

3. Why are we basing policy on fear? As more and more data comes out, it's clear that the severity of the pandemic is nowhere near where it was predicted to be. There are very clear risk profiles that are known now such that policy can be much more targeted and less destructive in nature.

 

[pLow7]

So can someone tell me this?

1. Why do coronaphobes want to impose their will onto everyone else? People wanting to or are OK with getting back to normalcy are not forcing coronaphobes to leave their homes nor are they breaking down coronaphobes homes doors and running in and breathing on them...

2. Why do coronaphobes believe everyone shares the same value system as themselves? There are plenty of folks who put a higher value on things more than life itself.

3. Why are we basing policy on fear? As more and more data comes out, it's clear that the severity of the pandemic is nowhere near where it was predicted to be. There are very clear risk profiles that are known now such that policy can be much more targeted and less destructive in nature.

I'll answer this from a Perspective of someone that is against strict Lockdowns, but i'm still strictly against "opening all things up" like some here are suggesting. They way germany did is is imo the smartest way to get out of this. We never had a complete Lockdown. We had contact restrictions, but you still could go out, even when we were at peak. Shops are opening slowly, but only strict rules and hygiene standards are making this possible. Without mandatory masks and keeping distance, all of this isn't possible. If you can't do that, things should be kept locked down:

1. Because people still have to go out? There's basic needs that are done outside of your home. Opening up everything, means that you have a high risk of getting the Virus just by going outside to get grocery. Strict rules don't kill the virus, but it highly reduces the risk of you getting it while doing your basic stuff. Also you are asking basically every Nurse,Doctor,caregiver etc. to stay home.

2. Can't answer that, but i'd love if people would value the life of a person higher than economic stability. But since im not an american i won't argue with you. We have slightly different standards in europe.

3. The disease is still as deadly as it was in the beginning. Numbers in Northern Italy, UK and Spain don't lie. Yes young people and Sub 50s have a small possibility to die. Still, there's plenty of people +60 that served your country a lot more than anybody in this forum, sick people and other people in the risk groups including your parents/grandparents. They all deserve to live a long life imo.


I agree that Lockdowns in a lot of instances are not the best strategy anymore, but opneing up everything and "go back to normal" is dumb and will result in many people dying.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

So can someone tell me this?

1. Why do coronaphobes want to impose their will onto everyone else? People wanting to or are OK with getting back to normalcy are not forcing coronaphobes to leave their homes nor are they breaking down coronaphobes homes doors and running in and breathing on them...

2. Why do coronaphobes believe everyone shares the same value system as themselves? There are plenty of folks who put a higher value on things more than life itself.

3. Why are we basing policy on fear? As more and more data comes out, it's clear that the severity of the pandemic is nowhere near where it was predicted to be. There are very clear risk profiles that are known now such that policy can be much more targeted and less destructive in nature.

We're in the midst of a pandemic, and the best way to control it is a cohesive public health response. "You do what you want" isn't going to cut it, and most of the people here mitigating the threat are benefiting from the comfort and safety of the curve flattening from the lockdown.

Also, some of us have to look after people that get sick. I'm not allowed to turn away sick people simply because they were idiots.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Naturally there cannot be international travel during that time period. It is not a dumb idea at all. How do you think China was able to semi get it under control? By forcible locking people up. By having true essential working outside with mandatory mask requirement, not the wish-washing about not mandatory, weekly virus check, eliminating the virus is not a pipe dream. Or we could face with possibility of million of death by the end of the year.

Currently the virus is spreading like a plague in usa is because people are NOT willing to do what's necessary. People refuse to self-isolate even if they were in contract with at risk individual Too many people believe in their entirement that they do not need to wear mask. People in Asia like in South Korea are about to trace it, so why can't we? Let face it, it is entitlement of freedom of privacy. In my city there is still the shelter at home order in place yet every night police have to keep going to at risk area to disspure the people gathering. Stupid District 11.

In China they locked sick people in their homes while they starved to death. They dragged the sick outside and forcibly quarantined them. If you call that guts, I guess you and I have a different definition. China is an authoritarian brutal nation. You’re right in that they are better at annihilating any resistance to the state.

China didn’t have to worry about the freedom of its citizens because they don’t have any. If you think that’s a good idea, you should see about emigrating. Annihilating the virus is nonsense at this point.

 

[JordanN]

Ok, now THIS is epic.

 

[The Scrivener]

Nor really? Isolate everyone complete for 1-2 month and the virus would be gone forever.

lol, only took 259 pages for the biggest shitpost to turn up, not bad...

Don't tell me, you must a SCIENTIST, right?

 

[The Scrivener]

So can someone tell me this?

1. Why do coronaphobes want to impose their will onto everyone else? People wanting to or are OK with getting back to normalcy are not forcing coronaphobes to leave their homes nor are they breaking down coronaphobes homes doors and running in and breathing on them...

2. Why do coronaphobes believe everyone shares the same value system as themselves? There are plenty of folks who put a higher value on things more than life itself.

3. Why are we basing policy on fear? As more and more data comes out, it's clear that the severity of the pandemic is nowhere near where it was predicted to be. There are very clear risk profiles that are known now such that policy can be much more targeted and less destructive in nature.

Don't be so Coronaphobist! You must be a total idiot to say that, you're clearly not a scientist, therefore you are not allowed to speak, to enact you fundamental human right. Reported.

/sarcasm

 

[diffusionx]

Jesus. It takes an accumulated amount of virus to even get sick. Going outside, it disperses in even the slightest wind. If you’re jogging, you can jog without a mask, but if you come across someone, put on your mask. Try not to trail another jogger, and if you do, put some distance in between you and them. 6 feet minimum, 17 feet preferred.

Arresting people while releasing inmates, this is just idiotic. A person taking photos of empty beaches isn’t a threat. There is more of a threat of transmission during the arrest and being in the same car as an officer as they come into contact with lots of people.

No, the issue is not that he was outside, it is that Hawaii has a mandatory quarantine period for out-of-state travelers, which he didn't abide by. He signed the paper acknowledging it then was like, "fuck it, yolo"

I want to get the fuck out of here... but I am not going to go to another state and break their established rules just because I feel entitled to a vacation. Whether or not I agree with those rules, it doesn't matter.

 

[pLow7]

Don't be so Coronaphobist! You must be a total idiot to say that, you're clearly not a scientist, therefore you are not allowed to speak, to enact you fundamental human right. Reported.

/sarcasm

Wow, the cringe Is strong in this post

 

[DeepBreath87]

2. Can't answer that, but i'd love if people would value the life of a person higher than economic stability. But since im not an american i won't argue with you. We have slightly different standards in europe.

I just wanted to comment on this here because its a common argument and is just so small minded its hard to tolerate. Economic stability is what allows for human life to exist at the level it does on this planet. Do a search for the devastation the current economic trends are going to cause, especially in developing nations. Economic stability provides the environment for people to produce and distribute food so that billions of people can survive. It allows provides the incentives that allow hospitals to function, including the production and distribution of supplies domestically and internationally. People say this shit like the economy is all about restaurants and amusement parks or something.

The economy provides everything you have in your life that you don't make yourself. Everything. Keeping that functioning and stable is more important than some large number of lives. The fact that you don't realize that is a failure of you, not of Americans.

 

[diffusionx]

Like Elon Musk said on Joe Rogan recently, "if you don't make stuff there is no stuff."

Unless the value of a single life is worth all of civilization reverting to a tribal state, we have to stop being afraid of this thing and move on with our lives. Remember that civilization was built in the face of much worse diseases than COVID-19.

 

[The Scrivener]

Wow, the cringe Is strong in this post

Yeah, I dunno, I'm in a weird mood I guess. My boss thinks I'm a conspiracy theorist and we're all dumb. I'm not gonna argue, I'll lose my job. GAF is my stress relief sometimes

I think the issue that anyone who denies wanting a vaccine is misinformed or holds a bad belief is a strawman, or the wrong answer.

I believe that it's a freedom of speech issue, that if the whole world has to come together and take a vaccine, then I stand up for freedom of speech, regardless of belief.

But what we see are that people like me, or rykomatsu perhaps, are told that we should shut up and not ruin it for the rest of them.

I don't really "believe" that Gates wants us all dead, I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I simply support truth, I wish not to take a vaccine. As per the Rogan clip on this page, a range of alternative treatments must be a consideration. This is my view. Freedom of speech, hence freedom of body. Based of freedom of thought: political, religious, philosophical, or ignorant.

 

[The Scrivener]

Remember that civilization was built in the face of much worse diseases than COVID-19.

Wow, this is so true, good point. And if you look at the fact that there was no "mainstream media" back then to fight against (whenever, wherever that was.)

Sorry GAF for shitposting so much. I wake up, log on, and go blah. I respect you all in this thread. We lost a few along the way, I'd hate to be one of them. RIP ORI and djau lol fun times.

 

[ROMhack]

I just wanted to comment on this here because its a common argument and is just so small minded its hard to tolerate. Economic stability is what allows for human life to exist at the level it does on this planet. Do a search for the devastation the current economic trends are going to cause, especially in developing nations. Economic stability provides the environment for people to produce and distribute food so that billions of people can survive. It allows provides the incentives that allow hospitals to function, including the production and distribution of supplies domestically and internationally. People say this shit like the economy is all about restaurants and amusement parks or something.

The economy provides everything you have in your life that you don't make yourself. Everything. Keeping that functioning and stable is more important than some large number of lives. The fact that you don't realize that is a failure of you, not of Americans.

Sure but keeping people healthy also allows for the functioning of that healthy economy. It's a two way relationship.

It's why it's all about balance and the #1 question governments are trying to find an answer to.

 

[pLow7]

I just wanted to comment on this here because its a common argument and is just so small minded its hard to tolerate. Economic stability is what allows for human life to exist at the level it does on this planet. Do a search for the devastation the current economic trends are going to cause, especially in developing nations. Economic stability provides the environment for people to produce and distribute food so that billions of people can survive. It allows provides the incentives that allow hospitals to function, including the production and distribution of supplies domestically and internationally. People say this shit like the economy is all about restaurants and amusement parks or something.

The economy provides everything you have in your life that you don't make yourself. Everything. Keeping that functioning and stable is more important than some large number of lives. The fact that you don't realize that is a failure of you, not of Americans.

No Go read my Post again and then reconsider.

There's a middle ground between locking peope down completely and Going back to normal. It's up to the each country to reach a point where you A. Safe peoples life and B. Safe the Economy.
I don't know where you live, but where i live the majority of the economy went business as usual. Sure some Places had to start Home Office, and other places needed to close. But the majority of business are open and running. So this is not about "Fuck your Economy peoples lifes are more important". The economy is already in danger even if you Open everything up. Go look at Sweden, they didn't lock down ( While that's not completely true since they had one, it was just not forced ) the economy tanked.

But that's not what i mean with "i'm no american, so i can't comment". You guys ( At least some of you ) value freedom a lot. And that's okay, it's part of your country. But that's also the reason why so many people are in danger right now. I don't know how many times i've read that people already lost their homes . Things like these are not possible here where i live. So again, there is a big difference between clothing things down in the US and clothing things down in Europe. I'm happy the country where i live is doing what it's doing right now.

Yeah, I dunno, I'm in a weird mood I guess. My boss thinks I'm a conspiracy theorist and we're all dumb. I'm not gonna argue, I'll lose my job. GAF is my stress relief sometimes

I think the issue that anyone who denies wanting a vaccine is misinformed or holds a bad belief is a strawman, or the wrong answer.

I believe that it's a freedom of speech issue, that if the whole world has to come together and take a vaccine, then I stand up for freedom of speech, regardless of belief.

But what we see are that people like me, or rykomatsu perhaps, are told that we should shut up and not ruin it for the rest of them.

I don't really "believe" that Gates wants us all dead, I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I simply support truth, I wish not to take a vaccine. As per the Rogan clip on this page, a range of alternative treatments must be a consideration. This is my view. Freedom of speech, hence freedom of body. Based of freedom of thought: political, religious, philosophical, or ignorant.

I don't think Vaccines will be mandatory. The boss of the german CDC said, that there will be no mandatory Vaccines because it wouldn't be a wise decision. Vaccines should only be given to people of the risk group.

 

[DeepBreath87]

No Go read my Post again and then reconsider.

There's a middle ground between locking peope down completely and Going back to normal. It's up to the each country to reach a point where you A. Safe peoples life and B. Safe the Economy.
I don't know where you live, but where i live the majority of the economy went business as usual. Sure some Places had to start Home Office, and other places needed to close. But the majority of business are open and running. So this is not about "Fuck your Economy peoples lifes are more important". The economy is already in danger even if you Open everything up. Go look at Sweden, they didn't lock down ( While that's not completely true since they had one, it was just not forced ) the economy tanked.

But that's not what i mean with "i'm no american, so i can't comment". You guys ( At least some of you ) value freedom a lot. And that's okay, it's part of your country. But that's also the reason why so many people are in danger right now. I don't know how many times i've read that people already lost their homes . Things like these are not possible here where i live. So again, there is a big difference between clothing things down in the US and clothing things down in Europe. I'm happy the country where i live is doing what it's doing right now.



I don't think Vaccines will be mandatory. The boss of the german CDC said, that there will be no mandatory Vaccines because it wouldn't be a wise decision. Vaccines should only be given to people of the risk group.

I read it again, you said "i'd love if people would value the life of a person higher than economic stability".

That is a false choice. Maybe its not exactly what you meant to say, but its a bumper sticker argument people make all the time. I'm not for opening everything, but the idea we are actually saving lives at all over the long term is debatable. Especially if you consider that the average age of people dying from this disease is close to 80. There is a massive difference between 80 year olds dying and 40 year olds dying. That might make people uncomfortable to say, but its a fact. That doesn't mean we just go about our business either. I'm all for masks. I'm all for cancelling large events for a while. I support temporary economic hardship if it prevents loss of life.

I'm just not sure we are even accomplishing that. If you read about what happens during difficult economic times, there is a cost in human life to that. And it is significant. My general feeling is we should protect the elderly by asking them to stay home, protect nursing homes as much as we can without imprisoning the poor people inside them for months on end, and most every under 60 who is generally healthy needs to get on with most things while doing smart things like wearing masks, washing hands, social distancing as much as they can, ect.

 

[pLow7]

I read it again, you said "i'd love if people would value the life of a person higher than economic stability".

That is a false choice. Maybe its not exactly what you meant to say, but its a bumper sticker argument people make all the time. I'm not for opening everything, but the idea we are actually saving lives at all over the long term is debatable. Especially if you consider that the average age of people dying from this disease is close to 80. There is a massive difference between 80 year olds dying and 40 year olds dying. That might make people uncomfortable to say, but its a fact. That doesn't mean we just go about our business either. I'm all for masks. I'm all for cancelling large events for a while. I support temporary economic hardship if it prevents loss of life.

I'm just not sure we are even accomplishing that. If you read about what happens during difficult economic times, there is a cost in human life to that. And it is significant. My general feeling is we should protect the elderly by asking them to stay home, protect nursing homes as much as we can without imprisoning the poor people inside them for months on end, and most every under 60 who is generally healthy needs to get on with most things while doing smart things like wearing masks, washing hands, social distancing as much as they can, ect.

Yes, because A. is the result of B. It's a shitshow if people loose their homes because they can't work for a few months.

I Don't see anyone arguing that. But that's not what some folks are asking. My answer was to a post that said that people want to go "back to normalcy". There is no back to normal if you don't want many people to die. ou have to find a middle ground between saving peoples life ( Health ) and saving life (Economy). You wont get the first if you go "back to normal" and of course you won't get the latter if you stay lockdown for years. But the Virus is a few Months old, people including scientists know shit. So until now, there is no perfect solution.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Yes, because A. is the result of B. It's a shitshow if people loose their homes because they can't work for a few months.

I Don't see anyone arguing that. But that's not what some folks are asking. My answer was to a post that said that people want to go "back to normalcy". There is no back to normal if you don't want many people to die. ou have to find a middle ground between saving peoples life ( Health ) and saving life (Economy). You wont get the first if you go "back to normal" and of course you won't get the latter if you stay lockdown for years. But the Virus is a few Months old, people including scientists know shit. So until now, there is no perfect solution.

Again, saying "i'd love if people would value the life of a person higher than economic stability" is a false choice. B is also a result of A. Without a healthy economy, you don't have healthy people. The idea was sold as "flattening the curve" to prevent excess death due to inability for health system to cope with patient overload. And then it was to continue some level of mitigation to prevent mass reinfection. That is how it was sold to people and why they went along with it.

People wonder why there is such pushback against these orders. Its because the goalposts have been steadily moving in many places. Americans have been dealing with vastly different situations depending on the state they are from. People have been told to sacrifice for a goal. When that goal is accomplished, they are then told they need to keep sacrificing for a new goal which appears to be contact trace the disease away. People never agreed to that. We were told 15 days to slow the spread, then 30. Now its been over 60 with no end in sight. I work for a large healthcare system. We saw the lowest census we have had in 10 years during this.

 

[pLow7]

Again, saying "i'd love if people would value the life of a person higher than economic stability" is a false choice. B is also a result of A. Without a healthy economy, you don't have healthy people. The idea was sold as "flattening the curve" to prevent excess death due to inability for health system to cope with patient overload. And then it was to continue some level of mitigation to prevent mass reinfection. That is how it was sold to people and why they went along with it.

People wonder why there is such pushback against these orders. Its because the goalposts have been steadily moving in many places. Americans have been dealing with vastly different situations depending on the state they are from. People have been told to sacrifice for a goal. When that goal is accomplished, they are then told they need to keep sacrificing for a new goal which appears to be contact trace the disease away. People never agreed to that. We were told 15 days to slow the spread, then 30. Now its been over 60 with no end in sight. I work for a large healthcare system. We saw the lowest census we have had in 10 years during this.

Why is it a false choice? If you can't secure health while your country has to drive back economy you've done a shit job. Even IF you go into a total lockdown, basic needs like health Care should be avaible.
Italy went into FULL Lockdown for 2 months, even closing all business that were not systemically relevant. Why is a country like Italy that compared to the US is a dwarf in terms of economy able to pull this off?
The need of having a healthy economy to have healthy people is a faulty one, that's all.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Why is it a false choice? If you can't secure health while your country has to drive back economy you've done a shit job. Even IF you go into a total lockdown, basic needs like health Care should be avaible.
Italy went into FULL Lockdown for 2 months, even closing all business that were not systemically relevant. Why is a country like Italy that compared to the US is a dwarf in terms of economy able to pull this off?
The need of having a healthy economy to have healthy people is a faulty one, that's all.

We’re talking longer term here. Read any articles about what economic depressions due in terms of public health. Suicides and drug addiction rates skyrocket. Loss of access to healthcare increases. Read about how many cancer diagnosis we’ve missed in the last 2 months alone. Read about what experts think is going to happen over the next year in Africa when it comes to starvation. Remember the migrant issues they had in Europe? I’m sure you do. Well if there is mass starvation, you better believe those people are moving if they can.

You’re thinking in the immediate. Yes, things don’t collapse. They just degrade and there is a human cost to that and “lives are more important than the economy” doesn’t come close to seeing the whole picture

 

[cryptoadam]

Italy is probably going to enter its 4th recession. Its having economic problems too.

Coronavirus is devastating the Italian economy.

The country’s economy was already in serious difficulty before the pandemic hit. Now, Italy could enter its fourth recession in a decade.

www.americamagazine.org

Pretty much every country has had a giant economic downturn from the virus this isnt an exclusive USA thing. Hell China had its lowest growth in decades. Unemployment is sky rocketing pretty much everywhere.

 

[EviLore]

 

[pLow7]

We’re talking longer term here. Read any articles about what economic depressions due in terms of public health. Suicides and drug addiction rates skyrocket. Loss of access to healthcare increases. Read about how many cancer diagnosis we’ve missed in the last 2 months alone. Read about what experts think is going to happen over the next year in Africa when it comes to starvation. Remember the migrant issues they had in Europe? I’m sure you do. Well if there is mass starvation, you better believe those people are moving if they can.

You’re thinking in the immediate. Yes, things don’t collapse. They just degrade and there is a human cost to that and “lives are more important than the economy” doesn’t come close to seeing the whole picture

All of this is only the case if you stay locked down forever. We are talking about telling people to keep distance, telling Restaurants to only let a certain number of people in, telling shops only a certain number of people can enter, making masks mandatory.
I don't see how any of this will result in a major economic depression. A country going solo and opnening up will not change the economic disaster that will come. What happens if 10 people of a major Farm get infected? What happens if 10 Workes of Tesla get infected? Do the factories remain open? What about Teachers or Schools?
Yes the Virus isn't killing everybody, but a lot of them still are knocked down and feel very ill. What about the people that have to go back to work, but have people in the risk group at home? Do you force them to work? Right no, the risk isn't as high. But if you open up, the probability will raise.

I Think there's people that did the math and that are far smarter than we are with these, and there is a reason why they decide that opening up isn't the Go to Solution, even economically.

 

[Aggelos]

Itagaki's daughter also contracted COVID-19

Tomonobu Itagaki - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tell_men]

No, the issue is not that he was outside, it is that Hawaii has a mandatory quarantine period for out-of-state travelers, which he didn't abide by. He signed the paper acknowledging it then was like, "fuck it, yolo"

I want to get the fuck out of here... but I am not going to go to another state and break their established rules just because I feel entitled to a vacation. Whether or not I agree with those rules, it doesn't matter.

Go type into Google: How long is a hawaii vacation. The answer: usually 5 days, but they recommend 10.

Hawaii has been on lockdown since March 25th, and yet they are still taking tourists for their money. People do not go on vacation to be locked up in a hotel room... especially Hawaii. It wasn’t until this happened that Hawaii finally said tourists shouldn’t come here. You don’t take people’s money and then tell them to stay inside during your vacation. If Hawaii was truly concerned about this, they should have canceled all flights and refunded tourists their money. No, instead they’re double dipping with these fines. Money for the hotels. More money for the state.

 

[DeepBreath87]

All of this is only the case if you stay locked down forever. We are talking about telling people to keep distance, telling Restaurants to only let a certain number of people in, telling shops only a certain number of people can enter, making masks mandatory.
I don't see how any of this will result in a major economic depression. A country going solo and opnening up will not change the economic disaster that will come. What happens if 10 people of a major Farm get infected? What happens if 10 Workes of Tesla get infected? Do the factories remain open? What about Teachers or Schools?
Yes the Virus isn't killing everybody, but a lot of them still are knocked down and feel very ill. What about the people that have to go back to work, but have people in the risk group at home? Do you force them to work? Right no, the risk isn't as high. But if you open up, the probability will raise.

I Think there's people that did the math and that are far smarter than we are with these, and there is a reason why they decide that opening up isn't the Go to Solution, even economically.

You put too much faith in people charge I think. They fuck up all the time. It’s just usually the stakes aren’t so high. They are manipulated by public sentiment. They need to balance the right action with perception. Politics play a role. This isn’t just science. I think we kind of agree about what is necessary. We just live in places that are doing different things. My Governor is in the top 5 worst in the country when it comes to dealing with this.

 

[cryptoadam]

All of this is only the case if you stay locked down forever. We are talking about telling people to keep distance, telling Restaurants to only let a certain number of people in, telling shops only a certain number of people can enter, making masks mandatory.
I don't see how any of this will result in a major economic depression. A country going solo and opnening up will not change the economic disaster that will come. What happens if 10 people of a major Farm get infected? What happens if 10 Workes of Tesla get infected? Do the factories remain open? What about Teachers or Schools?
Yes the Virus isn't killing everybody, but a lot of them still are knocked down and feel very ill. What about the people that have to go back to work, but have people in the risk group at home? Do you force them to work? Right no, the risk isn't as high. But if you open up, the probability will raise.

I Think there's people that did the math and that are far smarter than we are with these, and there is a reason why they decide that opening up isn't the Go to Solution, even economically.

Every country is opening up. Germany spain italy UK Canada etc... they are doing it at different speeds but pretty much everywhere is planning to end their lock downs. Some places like Slovania have declared their pandemic over. Others like Nordic countries are talking about travel being allowed again.

 

[diffusionx]

Go type into Google: How long is a hawaii vacation. The answer: usually 5 days, but they recommend 10.

Hawaii has been on lockdown since March 25th, and yet they are still taking tourists for their money. People do not go on vacation to be locked up in a hotel room... especially Hawaii. It wasn’t until this happened that Hawaii finally said tourists shouldn’t come here. You don’t take people’s money and then tell them to stay inside during your vacation. If Hawaii was truly concerned about this, they should have canceled all flights and refunded tourists their money. No, instead they’re double dipping with these fines. Money for the hotels. More money for the state.

Give me a fucking break. The fourteen day quarantine period is, yes, a deal breaker for tourists. So he should have canceled the trip, not went, signed the form, then broke the rules he agreed to. At what point are people responsible for their own behavior?

 

[DeepBreath87]

Give me a fucking break. The fourteen day quarantine period is, yes, a deal breaker for tourists. So he should have canceled the trip, not went, signed the form, then broke the rules he agreed to. At what point are people responsible for their own behavior?

Do you know for sure they were willing to refund his money? If they’re open and allowing you to come, maybe they won’t offer a refund. Alternatively yes, if he could get a refund, he should’ve cancelled instead of breaking their rules.

 

[diffusionx]

Do you know for sure they were willing to refund his money? If they’re open and allowing you to come, maybe they won’t offer a refund. Alternatively yes, if he could get a refund, he should’ve cancelled instead of breaking their rules.

Yes literally every single tourist place is offering refunds and changes. Nobody is saying, “oh you booked this $5000 trip 6 months ago and now there is a global pandemic, tough shit.”

 

[synchronicity]

Sure, if By “isolate” you mean lock everyone in their homes, dont let them out, even for food, the government shoots anyone on sight they see walking around. If someone dies in a house, everyone else has to live with the dead body for the entire time.

Do that and maybe the virus is gone forever, unless the people enforcing the isolation have it, which they will.

Edit: and if we have 100% compliance, of course.

Even that wouldn't work because many people live in apartments/shared dwellings that circulate air (and the virus) among the units and tenants. There is no type of isolation that will eliminate the virus.

Jesus. It takes an accumulated amount of virus to even get sick. Going outside, it disperses in even the slightest wind. If you’re jogging, you can jog without a mask, but if you come across someone, put on your mask. Try not to trail another jogger, and if you do, put some distance in between you and them. 6 feet minimum, 17 feet preferred.

Arresting people while releasing inmates, this is just idiotic. A person taking photos of empty beaches isn’t a threat. There is more of a threat of transmission during the arrest and being in the same car as an officer as they come into contact with lots of people.

Fear and panic makes fools of many.

 

[Tell_men]

Give me a fucking break. The fourteen day quarantine period is, yes, a deal breaker for tourists. So he should have canceled the trip, not went, signed the form, then broke the rules he agreed to. At what point are people responsible for their own behavior?

At what point are tourist hotels held responsible? There’s plenty of blame to go around. They’re baiting people to break the law by saying hey come spend thousands of dollars only to be confined. If they truly cared, they wouldn’t offer refunds. They would mandate and force refunds.