Xbox Surface X!
Surface Play!
Phil Spencer on the ‘console war’ mentality, and Xbox’s shift away from the box
- Thread starter SlimySnake
- Start date
Surface Play!
Hudo
Member
Corporate tribalism by consumers isn't a new thing. There are records of people actually beating each other up because one guy liked Dodge and the other guy liked Ford. Same thing with Pepsi and CocaCola or Apple vs 'Wintel'. Here in Germany, Opel vs. Volkswagen or Adidas vs. Puma.... Usually you'd hope that those consumers will eventually outgrow that mentality, since it's mostly teenagers and twenty-somethings that are doing that, largely due to a lack of money.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
So, here's the true split I tend to see between threads about Microsoft and Sony, threads about Sony are arguing about the potential of the hardware, threads about Xbox are arguing about PR statements they make. Am I about right?
JTCx
Member
This right here is where they fucked up.
Sony
Nintendo
Microsoft is very competitive in their software solutions, yet they've never been so open in their software support for other platforms in history.
It's Microsoft's policy under Nadella. Aditionally, servitization is a big and important trend for tech companies, and one that fits modern lifestyles.
What would you want them do, to first become market leader in unit sales and then shift to a software strategy? Would that make it more genuine to you?
Phil Spencer "Just being honest" Claims Advantage over PS5
Couldn't find it posted, console war me if old... "He's just being honest, feels good after the PS5 reveal" “Just being honest, I felt good after seeing their show. I think the hardware advantages that we have built are going to show up as we’re talking more about our games and frame rates and...www.neogaf.com
Phil Spencer: “We want you to hear the games first, not our console.”
He‘s repressing a laugh as he says that. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Phil Spencer felt “even better” after knowing the PS5 specs
Source: https://www.elotrolado.net/noticias/consolas/phil-spencer-xbox-series-x-precio-ps5 “When he was asked about his reaction to the PS5 architecture presentation, he responds that he felt “even better” about the decisions taken with the Xbox series X.” “Phil admits to have a blind faith in...
The first link: Phil was asked a direct question.
The second link: He said they want you to hear their games first, not their console. Forum dwellers and owners of both consoles know he might be taking a slight jab a PS4 Pro. The wider audience though, how would they know he means the PS4 Pro?
The third link: Phil was asked a direct question
How insecure must you people be to feel so offended. You can still be an opponent of console war while promoting your own technology.
It's like people like you want Phil to start the answer to each question with: "First of all, there is also the PS5, which is REALLY GOOD, I mean REAAALLY GOOD, you should check that you! And after that, if you could pretty please have the time to check out the Series X that would be great!"
By the way, with console war mentality, he means fanboy/girl, not execs. Companies are doing their job, forum dwellers console warring are not.
Greenberg is getting paid for it, are you?
Last edited:
GHG
Gold Member
Sensational reply as usual.
Ignore the hypocrisy and instead go after the person who dares to highlight the rampant hypocrisy.
I'm sure Greenberg is proud of you.
Jigga117
Member
What do you think your post is going to do? CHANGE THE WORLD. I mean you sound like this is your calling or somthing that you have to call this man out. Your thinking is THIS post will change the minds of people all over the world that see me call this mans "bs" out. Someone you don't know personally but your triggered by twitter tweet. Oh I remember you. You were triggered by something Greenberg said in another thread like a month ago. Hey everyone Neogaf Karen is here.
Last edited:
GHG
Gold Member
Considering the tone of your post I don't think I'm the one who is "triggered" here.
It would be nice if Phil put his money where his mouth is, he's the head of Xbox who will have final say on everything they're doing, including their marketing strategies.
I'm in agreement with what he's saying in the OP but he's not practicing what he's preaching. So what's the point?
Sony
Nintendo
There is no hypocricy.
Series X has a set of advantages over the PS5, which they can promote. That's not console warring.
In the same way, PS5 can (and probably will) market that the PS5 is the fastest* console. That is not console warring.
'Not console warring' and promoting your own console are not mutually exclusive.
Another example, the Xbox One X is a better piece of technology than the PS4 Pro is every single possible way: stonger, quieter, more feature rich. Did Xbox bash PS4 Pro? No they didn't. They simply stated their own advantages: most powerful console ever (which is true) and true 4K (which is true).
At the bolded If 'not console warring' and pro consumerism is Xbox' policy. Then 98% of what they've been doing is in alignment with that policy.
And you're discrediting that policy with several tweets that might not adhere to that if you squint your eyes and read it with a certain motive.
If you genuinely think he's not practicing what he's preaching, then you're ignoring the 98% he does and focusing on the 2%. Which is things he's not directly involved with. You're delusional if you think he checks or should check every tweet.
Last edited:
pasterpl
Member
Do you mean the fact that Sony fans are triggered by anything that Phil says and they have an "itch" and need to comment in every single Xbox thread and try to derail it?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is what I find annoying, especialy of a figure many Xbox fans see as a messiah that can do no wrong... not the concepts, but how hypocritical this all sounds. He is the head and thus responsible for ALL things Xbox so yes even those ads.
His team is constantly following strategies that Phil then denounces while trying to stick them on the competitors while trying to score pro-consumer points/virtue signal with the gaming press and public. "Exclusives tied to a device a bad" —> "Xbox announces they are going to keep buying studios and make more games exclusives to their platform", "There is no place for this kind of console war mentality" —> "His team and sometimes himself keep releasing console war feeding statements and ads", etc...
SkylineRKR
Member
Spencer isn't stupid. He knows he can't beat Sony in sheer numbers. Even Sony at its worst, and MS at its best (PS3 - 360) reflected this. MS stopped posting sales data and pretty much embraced the whole "we're in this together" things. Meanwhile, MS is also trying to court studios, signed deals like Rise of the Tomb Raider and basically does stuff to win market share. I mean, they should do stuff, they want our money.
Then, the marketing squad who he probably greenlits, is constantly taking pot shots at Sony. Nothing wrong with that honestly, but Spencer then acts the good cop whenever he comes out.
I do think he's a gamer, and he's a decent figurehead for the job, but he's obviously playing an act. Whenever MS gains the upper hand on the market, he won't embrace such open ness as he did recently with cross play and all. He's then in the position that there is nothing to gain.
Then, the marketing squad who he probably greenlits, is constantly taking pot shots at Sony. Nothing wrong with that honestly, but Spencer then acts the good cop whenever he comes out.
I do think he's a gamer, and he's a decent figurehead for the job, but he's obviously playing an act. Whenever MS gains the upper hand on the market, he won't embrace such open ness as he did recently with cross play and all. He's then in the position that there is nothing to gain.
Klayzer
Member
Does he not know this is a discussion board? Xbox executive speaks people are going to react. Funny, you dont hear Xbox fans complaining about old news when pr is boasting about power and teraflops. Isn't that old news also. Just be real, anytime Phil is taken to task by his own comments, his fanclub gets all pissy and bitchy.
GHG
Gold Member
I highlighted the following statement:
not 'my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.'
Sounds great on paper but the reality is that's exactly what his marketing team are going out there and doing.
You'd be correct in saying that's their job, but then in that case he shouldn't be out here saying things that are contradictory to a large part of their marketing strategy that has played heavily on the whole "my piece of plastic is better than yours" thing.
This is what happens at the start of every console generation, it's actually standard practice in the industry. Whoever has the most powerful box will shout about it, whoever has certain features the competition lacks will shout about it, so I have no idea why he's trying to promote this "good guy Xbox, we don't do competition/console wars" facade when everyone understands why they do it when they have the opportunity. He's trying to rewrite what doesn't need to be rewritten, nobody is going to pop off at them for saying their console is more powerful or "better" in certain aspects when it factually is.
Regarding "console wars", if someone created a post that read exactly like the following tweet... :
What do you think the result would be? Do you not think they would be called out for being a console warrior?
Last edited:
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I mean that the FUD over PS5 is people trying to make you believe it performs worse than it does and the FUD over Series X has nothing to do with the system's power capabilities but things their PR team say. You can call Sony fans "triggered" over MS saying things that are sometimes inherently designed to cause these reactions but most PS5 threads are "x dev says y aspect of PS5 is great" and people get upset about that, it'd be one thing if it was Sony themselves constantly back-patting themselves, but even that is weird to cause so much hysteria if it can't be proven wrong (anything to do with the system's power, for instance) but it's almost always some other developer who got access to a dev kit and yet it causes hysteria all the same. This thread for instance is inherently going to cause crap because for Spencer to bemoan console warring while Microsoft PR takes pretty open jabs at the competition is so weird, like they're fueling the war with stuff like the tweets linked above or Phil's own comment about how they want you to "hear their games, not their console" a swipe at how loud many PS4/Pros were. What has Sony's PR done to stoke the fires of console wars, though?
WelshBluebird
Member
"Shift away from the box" but also boasting about having the most powerful box. Doesn't really match up that well!
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
If he wants to distance Xbox from console war mentality, they should stop giving a platform to Aaron Greenberg, Tim Dog, Discord FUD and all the other crap they interact with.
GHG
Gold Member
What? The result of making a simple statement of fact about the advantages of the Series X? If it was done here I suspect there would be a lot of hurt feelings and the spamming of the report button by a certain cohort of GAF members.
Tells me everything I need to know, thanks.
It's difficult to do as Phil says when the marketing is promoting a different type of behaviour.
Really? Profit you say?
It's always the most insecure kid who's shouting and taking a pop and MS should be insecure, they finished 3rd this gen, below a 720p machine. MS had the most powerful hardware and still could not produce a single game that said: you have to buy me.
Now this gen XsX will have no exclusives. That is the single biggest mistake they're making. No exclusives means no point in buying XsX because when PC gets its SSD solution XsX becomes lowest common denominator in its own ecosystem. It means their product is going to age even faster.
I think MS desperately want Sony to acknowledge them, they want Sony to fire back but the reality is the 360 gen is when they were ahead on price and time and still lost! But the real failure here was planning ahead for the next gen. They did not line up enough games for X.
I mean, you want to talk about how much of a mess they're in? The naming convention of the box itself is laughable. They're so insecure they decided not to go with sequential numbering because it would mean that Sony are always "higher" but MS strategy should have been the same as nintendo. Build a library of established, exclusive IP and build your core audience. I used to be a 360 guy. That gen was incredible. The titles on blue and green were insane.
Now I can just completely ignore the XsX because I have a PC and more money than sense.
Ailynn
Faith - Hope - Love
FranXico
Member
I don't know. Some of the supportive and outright sycophantic reactions I read here seem to suggest he's right.
One thing most people aren't aware off is PR and Marketing are two worlds. They have intersections but they aren't the same. As Head of Xbox and brand representative Phil is doing classic PR work. He leads into interviews, encourages product strengths and shares the product vision. Yes he became a bit salty here and there but he never downplayed the competition, he focused on the own product. Even though he was clearly poking fun at the competition in this video extract, it was basically about highlighting the strength of his own product. Traditionally, marketing is much more aggressive, as we are talking about an US company even more. The official Xbox channels are mixing up both worlds with clear tendencies in marketing behaviour.
I'm personally not a fan of this behaviour (Xbox channels), as I think that the focus on one's own product already opens up many communication opportunities. On the downside, Xbox has been doing that for the entire generation after it failed at the start. They haven't gained much from this strategy, so I understand why they have become more aggressive. They are fighting against a 1:2.5 Ratio on sales, popularity and many other aspects. Fan base and brand strength of PS(5) are strong and Xbox is declining. It requires a change and I can fully imagine that it will change again if the expectations in terms of sales and subscriptions are not met in the first year. Good communication always adapts to the circumstances.
Sony as a Japanese company will in principle always drive the reserved communication. It they always positioned themselves as a premium product manufacturer (Apple has taken this concept to the extreme). However, the mentality of the company and the basic orientation is in essence much older then the PlayStation brand. Not to mention the fact that they are at a point where they simply have to "carry on as before".
Last edited:
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
I really don't see anything wrong with the "console warrior mentality" when it's done in a light-hearted way. Both PlayStation & Xbox have had little digs at each other in the past, the most famous recent example being the "How to share games on PS4" video, at the beginningof this generation. Nintendo & Sega (& their respective fans) used to go at it, back in the day. That kind of stuff is all in good fun & I don't think most people would have a problem with it, no matter on which side they plant their flag. There's nothing wrong with feeling a sense of investment in your console of choice & maybe having a little playful dig at "the other side" from time to time.
The issue is with childish fanboys. The type who take every slight directed at their favourite company to heart & go to war, defending said company's honour with a desperate passion.
We all know them. Quite a few of them are active posters on GAF. We all know it.
Those guys are the problem. If they could just chill out, sit back & relax for a minute & stop taking this stuff so seriously, then we would all feel the benefits.
Phil Spencer always tries to talk a good game & I actually quite like the guy. He is a gamer. He is passionate about the hobby, as well as being a corporate guy who gets rich doing what he does. I agree with his words about both sides being able to succeed at the same time, in different ways. I do think he's off the mark about "console wars" though. It's also hypocritical to pretend that he's above it all, when he's had little digs at the competition himself.
The issue is with childish fanboys. The type who take every slight directed at their favourite company to heart & go to war, defending said company's honour with a desperate passion.
We all know them. Quite a few of them are active posters on GAF. We all know it.
Those guys are the problem. If they could just chill out, sit back & relax for a minute & stop taking this stuff so seriously, then we would all feel the benefits.
Phil Spencer always tries to talk a good game & I actually quite like the guy. He is a gamer. He is passionate about the hobby, as well as being a corporate guy who gets rich doing what he does. I agree with his words about both sides being able to succeed at the same time, in different ways. I do think he's off the mark about "console wars" though. It's also hypocritical to pretend that he's above it all, when he's had little digs at the competition himself.
Kokoloko85
Member
Phil The passive aggressive guy in charge of xbox..xcloud?
HaveButOneLife
Banned
With crossplay and how much closer to each other hardware wise that consoles have pretty much ever been, I'm surprised it still exists. Microsoft pulls one of the biggest 180's in gaming history and they seem to be working very hard on their exclusives lineup and people still want to pile up on them? On top of the fact that they've done so many pro-consumer things that changed everybody's perspective of them since E3 2013.
And Sony and Nintendo are delivering on the exclusives front. There's no better time than now to be a gamer and yet this fictitious console war still exists to one-up fanboys that we subjectively don't like.
And Sony and Nintendo are delivering on the exclusives front. There's no better time than now to be a gamer and yet this fictitious console war still exists to one-up fanboys that we subjectively don't like.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Holy shit the hurt is real. Sony fanboys are doing more Xbox threads than Xbox fanboys.
Crying about console warring when its all 90% of you contribute to. Spec thread holds all the evidence lol
.
Crying about console warring when its all 90% of you contribute to. Spec thread holds all the evidence lol
.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Its only fun for most of these fanboys when their the ones shitposting. When someone responds their offended like the twitter mob.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
"Working very hard on their exclusive lineup" and yet not able to make Series X games until "a couple of years" down the line.
Worse, instead of acknowledging that their games are not ready, they are trying to claim they deliberately did not have Series X games available to make people who didn't upgrade, feel better.
I would give them props for trying if they were not so disgusting. No, Xbox 360 does not love you and neither does PS4. Xbox is not anybody's friend, and especially not anyone's friend just because they couldn't get their act together and release next gen games on time.
pasterpl
Member
you mean like when Sony was trolling ms drm fiasco?
sonomamashine
Member
It's fun to read all these triggered fanboys comments, you're too fragile and sensitive.
Imagine if Ps5 was stronger than XsX, Cerny said...
Cerny is AMAZING OH MY GOOOOOOSH
This is embarassing.
Everytime MS, Xbox, Phil says anything, fanboys get triggered & start warring.
Imagine if Ps5 was stronger than XsX, Cerny said...
Cerny is AMAZING OH MY GOOOOOOSH This is embarassing.
Everytime MS, Xbox, Phil says anything, fanboys get triggered & start warring.
SleepDoctor
Banned
It's fun to read all these triggered fanboys comments, you're too fragile and sensitive.
Imagine if Ps5 was stronger than XsX, Cerny said...
This is embarassing.
Everytime MS, Xbox, Phil says anything, fanboys get triggered & start warring.
If it was, the spec thread would have died March 18th.
Why follow people on Twitter you hate so much tho? Makes no sense, like they just want to get offended.
Demon2blades
Member
So Sony games are repetitive pig slop then? ... Lol. It's not whatever you want to play it's whatever ms outputs you ain't gonna be playing mario or god of war using xcloud.
Kev Kev
Member
i love how someone tries to be positive and even constructive and we all turn it into another reason to argue lol
i actually really like his "my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic quote". because it really feels childish like that ya know? especially here on gaf where im pretty sure the average user age is somewhere in the thirties. yeah i get it, theres a lot of context here and hes probably full of shit. but it doesnt change the fact that his take is a much better one than "nah lets keep bickering like spoiled little brats arguing about which candy is the best at the candy store".
i really wish gamers would stop being babies about consoles and just buy the one they want (or all of them!) and play the games they like. if they cross platform, are exclusive or break exclusivity or shit like that, then so be it! nothing worth throwing a tantrum bout or arguing with people on the internet (youre not gong to change anything with your little posts so why waste your time? [you know your gonna be mine sorry i will leave now]).
i actually really like his "my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic quote". because it really feels childish like that ya know? especially here on gaf where im pretty sure the average user age is somewhere in the thirties. yeah i get it, theres a lot of context here and hes probably full of shit. but it doesnt change the fact that his take is a much better one than "nah lets keep bickering like spoiled little brats arguing about which candy is the best at the candy store".
i really wish gamers would stop being babies about consoles and just buy the one they want (or all of them!) and play the games they like. if they cross platform, are exclusive or break exclusivity or shit like that, then so be it! nothing worth throwing a tantrum bout or arguing with people on the internet (youre not gong to change anything with your little posts so why waste your time? [you know your gonna be mine sorry i will leave now]).
thelastword
Banned
It's a forum. Industry heads and people say things, we discuss. No one is losing sleep or taking this to heart, if XBOX fails it's on Phil. Surely he should be doing more hands on at his studios instead of doing an interview per minute. MS suppose to have their own PR guy. I find Phil is doing too many interviews and it's not like it's changing perception and adoption about the brand.....Phil has been going at it for a while now...
That second one, "my word". I have never seen that before.....Was there a thread about it? That is the most fanboyish statement I've seen in years, but Phil is now preaching against fanboyism in typical let's stone Mary Magdalene form.......Phil Spencer "Just being honest" Claims Advantage over PS5
Couldn't find it posted, console war me if old... "He's just being honest, feels good after the PS5 reveal" “Just being honest, I felt good after seeing their show. I think the hardware advantages that we have built are going to show up as we’re talking more about our games and frame rates and...
Phil Spencer: “We want you to hear the games first, not our console.”
He‘s repressing a laugh as he says that. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Phil Spencer felt “even better” after knowing the PS5 specs
Source: https://www.elotrolado.net/noticias/consolas/phil-spencer-xbox-series-x-precio-ps5 “When he was asked about his reaction to the PS5 architecture presentation, he responds that he felt “even better” about the decisions taken with the Xbox series X.” “Phil admits to have a blind faith in...
That statement is impressive to be honest "we-want-you-to-hear-the-games-first-not-our-console".....It's sleek I'll give him that, but it's also full of irony, with a heavy dose of fanboyism and butthurt because they/he is not doing so well in the industry. It seems like Phil is under immense pressure form his bosses and he is projecting his failures on everybody else, but himself...
Food for thought Phil. Decisions are what determine outcomes. At least concede that you guys did not fire this gen and try and do better, but stop bs'ing people with quotes, like the problem is them. If your games are not ready for next gen, just say so, instead of telling people you are a good guy, proconsumer because they can still use old hardware, then soon after that you announce that you are cutting off that old hardware. People are not dumb Phil, it's reasons like this why people don't adopt XBOX as you would like. You say one thing today, but say another thing tomorrow. You hype one thing today, but severely under-deliver on the day. There is nothing wrong with the industry, other console manufacturer's are having a great time and raking in cash. I also happen to think the industry will grow quite a bit next gen...I've already discussed that in another thread and given my reasons why...People need to see Phil, not hear. I don't think your XBOX diehards will be as tethered to your words next gen, if you persist with the same methods or gain the same ends. It doesn't seem that Phil is changing his strategy at all...and trying to improve...
Indeed.
Exactly, Phil has no issues with GreenBerg, Colt Eastwood, Mister X and all the XBOX discord faithful. You could see in every interview he and Greenberg are taking swipes at the competition, as opposed, I've never heard Shu and these Sony execs focus and speak about XBOX. Yet he postures himself as this white knight "who only wants to see the industry grow". You can't blame people who are not interested in your product phil, you have to do things to entice them, the consumer is not the problem.
As you say he is virtue signalling and making appeals primarily to communication channels to address this, it's why he put this out there. Phil? people being dissatisfied and expressing it is not preventing growth of the industry, not at all....
I'll say this, and mark my words, soon, many articles will pop up talking about "fanboys are preventing industry growth", you just wait. Phil is pretty much making an appeal to journalists and forums to present this and enforce this, he is making an appeal. So if forums start culling people who speak against XBOX, perhaps then XBOX can do better and have less of a dark cloud over it right? I do think he is overestimating the influence console wars has on any of these results, the majority of people who buy these games don't even go or argue on forums, maybe twitter is more popular now, but i'm not in those circles to gauge. But what's clear is that people arguing on forums don't stunt growth. Good and a variety of games that appeals to a large and diverse demographic is what accelerates growth. Going into China, Africa, India and trying to better tap those markets is what can expand this industry, but first console makers must ensure they have an appealing and diverse portfolio to market and sell in the first place....
replicant-
Member
This is bizarre.
anothertech
Member
Spoken like a true underdog.
Isn't it funny that one company modus is so in your face "stop comparing, it's bad for gaming, exclusives' are bad, sales numbers don't matter, we all get trophies..."
While the other is basically just silent while releasing exclusive after exclusive letting the games speak for themselves?
Its all in the subtext.
Isn't it funny that one company modus is so in your face "stop comparing, it's bad for gaming, exclusives' are bad, sales numbers don't matter, we all get trophies..."
While the other is basically just silent while releasing exclusive after exclusive letting the games speak for themselves?
Its all in the subtext.
LeftThumbstick
Member
Quite funny considering the initial launch hype of the PS4 was built around Xbox's failings.
Yet, Phil is a monster because he said he "felt good" after seeing his competitions reveal. Such a bad guy for being excited about his own product under his name
Sony
Nintendo
You highlighted a statement that belongs to a broader statement. The whole passage:
"This idea that in order for the industry to grow, some companies must succeed and others must fail … it doesn't help gaming reach the potential it should," Spencer tells The Post. "We should be driven to help gaming as an industry grow, for creators to take the biggest risks they can. When a great game comes out, we should applaud it, whether it's for PC, or PlayStation or on a Switch. We should focus on this industry that we love and see it continue to grow. And we should protect it from the issues that it does have. If we're going to spend energy, let's go spend it on those things, not 'my piece of plastic is better than your piece of plastic.' I don't think that's a productive conversation."
When it comes to actually following up on that:
- Microsoft has been pretty timid in marketing Xbox One X compared to PS4 Pro.
- Microsoft has supported Nintendo Switch
- Microsoft has been supporting cross-play with PS4 (and Switch)
- Microsoft entered a cloud gaming partnership with Sony for the benefit of the industry
So taking a part of a bigger statement and using that as the sole argument why Phil is a hypocrite not only does a disservice to what Microsoft have been doing, but is also disingenuous. Additionally, you linked this tweet:
What is wrong with this tweet?