Support NeoGAF

[StreetsofBeige]

''Bethesda's Graphics Engine was overhauled for FO76, allowing for "16 times the detail" and allowing players to "see distant weather systems from across the map," which will affect Starfield.²⁰ ''

LOL. Shit. I missed that Bethesda claim.

 

[Trogdor1123]

They have done this for their previous two releases. Announcement in May, trailer in June, and release in October/November of the same year. Skyrim had a trailer announcement in Dec 2010 and released in Novemeber 2011 the next year. So just 10 months from announcement to release.

No, I recall that but they wouldn't make it a launch title would they?

 

[Jaxcellent]

Really curious to see how this will pan out, I skipped on that online fallout game, service based online don't appeal to me, also subscribtions and micro transactions don't appeal to me, if they fuck this up, it could hurt them in ways thet dudent think possible, really hoping they make something special and consumer friendly though... I guess I miss the Bethesda of old.

 

[JOEVIAL]

No, I recall that but they wouldn't make it a launch title would they?

We will have to wait and see, but I totally get what you're saying. Bethesda have never released a game at the launch of a new console. If they did, it would be cross-gen. The initial install base of PS5 and Series X will be super low for a few months, as it always is for a new console release.

 

[Andodalf]

We will have to wait and see, but I totally get what you're saying. Bethesda have never released a game at the launch of a new console. If they did, it would be cross-gen. The initial install base of PS5 and Series X will be super low for a few months, as it always is for a new console release.

Oblivion was supposed to be a launch game, but missed it by a few months. I could see it for sure, they’re games have legs and should sell well even as a launch title

 

[Trogdor1123]

We will have to wait and see, but I totally get what you're saying. Bethesda have never released a game at the launch of a new console. If they did, it would be cross-gen. The initial install base of PS5 and Series X will be super low for a few months, as it always is for a new console release.

Maybe if it is cross gen? But I'm pretty sure they said it needed a new generation or something. I might be confusing it with elder scrolls though.

 

[yugoluke]

Do you know if any UE game that has a similar system of NPC independence? Where they can freely follow schedules Independent of anything else, needed to eat and sleep. And any game it’s number of physics objects that can be tracked and persist through saves. BGS games wouldn’t be the same at all on unreal unless they customized the engine so much it was just off brand gamebryo. And that’s what you get in a game like the outer worlds, a sterilized, neutered version of what BGS games feel like, that isn’t the same at all. And it was still a more buggy game than your average unreal title.

Disregarding the fact that no one ever just “makes a new engine”, if they had the “new engine” do the same things, it would have many of the exact same problems. Any game with persistent physics objects like theirs will have issues with physics jank. Any game with the number of NPCs and level of interaction they have will run into scripting errors. The current engine does not just have a line of code that says if:gamebryo:then:bugs=yes. The bugs come up because of the interactions between the massive ambitions of the systems in the games. Its a miracle these games work as well as they do, which is why literally no other game even tries to do most of what they do.

Ok I learned a lot of stuff here, however I am not sure how I should be processing this? Am I supposed to make peace with poorly performing games with subpar graphics? I am not sure what the takeaway is here.

I think the spirit of the criticism of the engine is more of a critique of a few things in general. Mechanics that feel bad, dated graphics, and too many bugs. Additionally we have been seeing similar types of issues across many BGS games in TES and Fallout franchises. These are not isolated issues. Our concern is that it will be more of the same.

So Andodalf, what are your expectations for Starfield and future games from BGS on their current engine tech? Would like to hear your opinions on this.

 

[Andodalf]

Ok I learned a lot of stuff here, however I am not sure how I should be processing this? Am I supposed to make peace with poorly performing games with subpar graphics? I am not sure what the takeaway is here.

I think the spirit of the criticism of the engine is more of a critique of a few things in general. Mechanics that feel bad, dated graphics, and too many bugs. Additionally we have been seeing similar types of issues across many BGS games in TES and Fallout franchises. These are not isolated issues. Our concern is that it will be more of the same.

So Andodalf, what are your expectations for Starfield and future games from BGS on their current engine tech? Would like to hear your opinions on this.

I expect that any game, regardless of Dev or engine, that does what these games do, will have similar issues. There should hopefully be at least a slight improvement over time in terms of stability, which was true for BGS games barring 76 (and Skyrim PS3). That doesn’t mean bugs don’t suck, and it’s completely valid to avoid the games on account of them if they bother you.

I think it’s crazy to say that these games have bad graphics, Morrowind was incredibly impressive at the time, as was Oblivion, and Skyrim was considered one of the best looking games around when it came out. Fallout 4 was a relative step back compared to Skyrim, but looking back, most people described that game at the time as average. Looking back at reviews, only fallout 3 and 76 were said to have graphics that were behind the times. And given how 76 is basically a multiplayer expansion for an already visually mediocre game several years later, that’s not surprising. It really seems to be a fallout problem for BGS which is weird. That aside, I think we need to see more than 1 iteration of this engine look less than stellar before we describe the company’s graphics as a whole as “dated”.

I think the best area of Critisism is the game mechanics, becuse those are things that absolutely can, and should be changed or improved. If you want to argue that the games becoming more casual focused hurt them as RPGs, that’s super fair. The fact that combat has seemingly never been a focus enough to get it feeling anything more than passable is not good in a series of games that are so combat heavy. Their animations have needed improvement since Oblivion.

Basically, IMO it’s totally fair to be annoyed by bugs, as they can 100% harm your experience. But it’s unrealistic to think they’ll leave. You should expect the games to improve graphically and mechanically every iteration, and to keep up with gaming at large, although I’d say there’s no real cause for concern in the graphical department yet. If they don’t, then it’s totally valid criticism. Regardless of all this. Unless the games fundamentally change, or someone else puts out a comparable experience, These game are going to have massive success even if they disappoint somewhat.

Unless it’s an always online forced multiplayer shared world that seems to think people like pvp way more than they do. That probably wouldn’t do as well.

 

[deriks]

But
"IN SPAAAAAAAAACE"

 

[snotcricket]

Very excited to see this game get revealed (hopefully within the next few months) and I'm sure I'll snort the stardust that this game has to offer when they do their deep dives into the environments, gameplay and lore they have been doing the past few games unveilings.
A big question mark with Starfield is the star jumping mechanic/space travel and how well it is executed and if its doing anything other than basic new Sci-Fi setting, Although being a new IP will go a long way with this game for me and many others.
If it's received as anything less than great as a whole package it will magnify the folks sentiment that CDPR can out Bethesda, Bethesda, albeit I feel they are doing different approaches under the same open world rpg umbrella.
I feel like there is an epic Sci-Fi rpg wave of games that has the potential to start showing with Starfield, Cyberpunk 2077 and others? and hopefully we see some influence from Outer Wilds start to trickle out.

 

[anthraticus]

The sci-fi RPG I'm looking forward to is....Colony Ship: A Post-Earth Role Playing Game.

I'm expecting anything from Bethesturdia to be the same banal shit they've been doing...

....BUT WITH A SCI-FI 'SKIN'

 

[cormack12]

 

[rofif]

So they finished it but will decide to release it in 3 next years after internal patching and it will still be broken

 

[JOEVIAL]

Yup... if this other rating is true... this all but confirms Starfield will get revealed within a few weeks and will probably release before the end of the year. Super crazy to think we are so close to another Bethesda Softworks RPG. Don't care what people say about Fallout 4, it has the best gameplay and exploration in the series. Bar none. Fallout 4 was one of my favorite games of this gen, and Skyrim, Fallout 3, and Oblivion are three of my other favorite games. So count me excited for Starfield, but still cautious because of the whole Fallout 76 debacle which I'm still bitter about.

 

[Pallas]

I’m not ecstatic about the engine they’ve used since Morrowind, but I’ll give them some slack for at least attempting a new IP. I just know to expect a very massive game world with bugs and broken quests.

also PEGI18? Maybe they can one up Cyberpunk 2077 genitalia customization.

 

[MMaRsu]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding something. You don’t really need to create a “new” engine, actually no company creates new engines for every game or the like. Take for example Call of duty, they have been using the same engine since the original Modern Warefare, no need to create a new one. You just recreate parts of it, that’s what you are tasked with when the development of a new game starts. Specific parts of the engine are rewritten until they are tailored for the new game. Rockstar also does the same thing. They have been using RAGE since gta IV and just improved parts of it for every new game. Unreal Engine 5 is also not completely new, it’s based on ue4. It just got some major updates and they decided to call it Unreal Engine 5. This is fundamentally a good practice it reduces time and money needed to create something new. The problem with Bethesda’s engine is that they don’t really improve the flaws which it had since the very beginning. Also it needs some major overhaul in some of its parts as it starts to look aged in some areas, but there is no need for a completely new engine.

Cod has been using the Quake 3 engine since a long time ago. That engine was pretty much perfect, hold that up against Bethesda's engine which has been broken since Oblivion.

but keep making these dumbass excuses.

 

[TheMan]

They really need to knock this one out of the park. Here's hoping it ain't shite.

 

[All_Might]

Cod has been using the Quake 3 engine since a long time ago. That engine was pretty much perfect, hold that up against Bethesda's engine which has been broken since Oblivion.

but keep making these dumbass excuses.

Wow okay I wasn’t trying to defend them in any way... I was trying to say they don’t necessarily need a new engine, but they could also try to fix their problems inside their own engine, which is what we do with our game.
What is wrong with this toxicity, why would I make excuses for a company ?

 

[rofif]

They really need to knock this one out of the park. Here's hoping it ain't shite.

Idk... Based on their output recently... Their last good game was Skyrim. Then the company completely changed. Fallout 4 had it;s moments but it was rather trash. Especially story and characters

 

[Jayjayhd34]

This has me hyped hope this isn't some big troll. Enjoyed fallout 4 a lot never tried fallout 76 as online isn't my thing most of the time.

 

[TheMan]

Idk... Based on their output recently... Their last good game was Skyrim. Then the company completely changed. Fallout 4 had it;s moments but it was rather trash. Especially story and characters

Oh yeah, I agree bethesda has an uphill battle ahead and a lot to prove. That said, they're finally moving on to a brand new engine so that gives them a better shot of putting out something that looks good and is less buggy. Then again maybe not. I just hope that if it's bad, it's really really bad so at least we'll have something to laugh at.

 

[Camreezie]

Even with the USK rating I would be massively surprised if they go ahead with a release this year. Surely going up against Cyberpunk would be suicidal?

 

[rofif]

Even with the USK rating I would be massively surprised if they go ahead with a release this year. Surely going up against Cyberpunk would be suicidal?

Really? We get few new games in 1 years and it's a suicide?
We used to have so many more game coming out each month...
They can release on the same day as cyberpunk for all I care. I kinda lost a hype for 2077 anyway

 

[Camreezie]

Really? We get few new games in 1 years and it's a suicide?
We used to have so many more game coming out each month...
They can release on the same day as cyberpunk for all I care. I kinda lost a hype for 2077 anyway

It's a very high profile RPG , which had interest drummed up for years. If Bethesda announce and release this soon after like they did with Fallout 4 could be suicide if it's close in release date to Cyberpunk. If theres a gap probably not

 

[The Hamburglar]

The SSD can do a lot of things including move mountains, but what it’s can’t do is improve a Bethesda game in the their shitty engine.

 

[Andodalf]

It's a very high profile RPG , which had interest drummed up for years. If Bethesda announce and release this soon after like they did with Fallout 4 could be suicide if it's close in release date to Cyberpunk. If theres a gap probably not

I mean, they put fallout 4 in the same year as the Witcher 3.



On the topic of the ratings update on their website today, it appears to have just been a visual glitch. It happened to Deathloop as well, and the actual webpage says it wasn’t been changed in a while

 

[Camreezie]

I mean, they put fallout 4 in the same year as the Witcher 3.

Good point however there was a considerable gap of May to November. I'm just saying hopefully theres a considerable gap between the two.

 

[Andodalf]

Good point however there was a considerable gap of May to November. I'm just saying hopefully theres a considerable gap between the two.

I think it positioning itself as a next gen title, coming out after both consoles, will do wonders to help separate it from titles that care before, even if both titles are cross gen. Starfield would be the first Big Open world WRPG of the gen

 

[niilokin]

 

[MightySquirrel]

I so can't wait

 

[dorkimoe]

This has me hyped hope this isn't some big troll. Enjoyed fallout 4 a lot never tried fallout 76 as online isn't my thing most of the time.

I was the same way, go try fallout 76 though, you can play it completely solo. I am having a blast

 

[Perrott]

And that's why fanboys like him are not a reliable source of information.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Reading those Todd quotes caused my subconscious to immediately begin blasting "Tell me lies" throughout my brain space.

 

[Moses85]

This isn’t the real deal. To get a USK ranking, the game has not to be finished.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Spoiler: Open me

 

[TeamGizzyy]

Bethesda has used up all my goodwill. It went to..

I'll take a vacation day off work and buy anything they make...

To..

Ehh.....

 

[BusierDonkey]

I look forward to Starfield and it's paid mods store, along with constant micro-updates to break non-official mods that are an order of magnitude better than what they curate in the store.

Definitely waiting until 6 months after launch before even considering this game. Then I'll see how they are supporting it and the mod community.

Idk... Based on their output recently... Their last good game was Skyrim. Then the company completely changed. Fallout 4 had it;s moments but it was rather trash. Especially story and characters

Valentine was really good, like a shining beacon in a sea of shit. Dogmeat was also really well done, he behaved just like a actual Shepard which despite getting me killed a lot, was kind of cool. The art and music in general were also really well done.

The story was hot garbage though. It's too bad they didn't leave it in the oven for another couple years to work out all the kinks.

 

[Starfield]

Really? We get few new games in 1 years and it's a suicide?
We used to have so many more game coming out each month...
They can release on the same day as cyberpunk for all I care. I kinda lost a hype for 2077 anyway

Cyberpunk is coming in September. IF Starfield is coming this year it will come out this November. 2 Months apart from each other.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

Really? We get few new games in 1 years and it's a suicide?
We used to have so many more game coming out each month...
They can release on the same day as cyberpunk for all I care. I kinda lost a hype for 2077 anyway

Yeah I think you underestimate the overall demand for more games at the moment. I personally feel the game market has been in a serious dry spell for about the last two years. Sure a lot of decent games have released in that time but not many GREAT games from the BIG developers. 2020 is looking good but everything got delayed into the second half of the year. It will be a heavy half but I don't expect people will be skipping some of these big arse games if they're good enough to get the attention. Especially looking at the market and the way consoles and games are selling at the moment due to CV19.

 

[rofif]

Yeah I think you underestimate the overall demand for more games at the moment. I personally feel the game market has been in a serious dry spell for about the last two years. Sure a lot of decent games have released in that time but not many GREAT games from the BIG developers. 2020 is looking good but everything got delayed into the second half of the year. It will be a heavy half but I don't expect people will be skipping some of these big arse games if they're good enough to get the attention. Especially looking at the market and the way consoles and games are selling at the moment due to CV19.

Exactly. It's dry af

 

[Bernkastel]

 

[ZZZZ]

 

[Bernkastel]

 

[IntentionalPun]

Thanks random twitter person!

 

[Bernkastel]

 

[JimmyRustler]

I perfectly expect this game to be shown as Xbox exclusive before the Series X launch. MS would be dumb not to do something like this.

 

[Andodalf]

I perfectly expect this game to be shown as Xbox exclusive before the Series X launch. MS would be dumb not to do something like this.

Todd has been outspoken about not showing games too long before launch. Unless It's a spring title I think VGAs is the absolute earliest we'll see it, with e3 being more likley.

But with an acquisition, who knows.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Todd has been outspoken about not showing games too long before launch. Unless It's a spring title I think VGAs is the absolute earliest we'll see it, with e3 being more likley.

But with an acquisition, who knows.

If I be MS exec, I make them show it. If nothing else but to sour the PS5 launch.

 

[devilNprada]

I perfectly expect this game to be shown as Xbox exclusive before the Series X launch. MS would be dumb not to do something like this.

Why launch is sold out already, shouldn't they wait until sales slow up a bit?

 

[UnNamed]

Starfield? Considering Bethesda past, I would say Starglitch.