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[MrFunSocks]

Which has more potential to pull more power, 350 watt power supply or 300 watt power supply? Its not for peak rms is it? Who in their right mind would think otherwise? Hmmm definitely not an "engineer"

Yeah it doesn't really make much sense to think the Xbox will use more power lol.

Remember, the whole thing about the variable clock speeds on the PS5 is because it has a power budget. It has a constant power draw. If the power draw is known and constant then why would they use a psu thats 50+ watts more than needed? The XSX can use maximum 300 watts. The PS5 can use maximum 350, and while the xbox power draw isn't constant, the PS5s is - so again, if the PS5 power draw is constant, why put a much bigger power unit in than necessary? It makes no sense.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Yeah it doesn't really make much sense to think the Xbox will use more power lol.

Remember, the whole thing about the variable clock speeds on the PS5 is because it has a power budget. It has a constant power draw. If the power draw is known and constant then why would they use a psu thats 50+ watts more than needed? The XSX can use maximum 300 watts. The PS5 can use maximum 350, and while the xbox power draw isn't constant, the PS5s is - so again, if the PS5 power draw is constant, why put a much bigger power unit in than necessary? It makes no sense.

That's why I hate commenting on these threads, only to get quoted by "engineers", which have not a clue about the cubic space, or materials that are needed to dissipate heat, yet think that a bigger heatsink, higher frequency, bigger PSU, "variable" clocks, etc, will use less power...

 

[borborygmus]

All the machines this gen are very ugly.

Ps5 looks like it used to be nice before it melted.

Xbox Series X looks like a NAS or power supply or something.

Xbox Series S looks like an intercom.

 

[TheDreadLord]

lmao. You're calling that a clusterfuck? Like, without even being articulate about why it is? Can you even come up with one of your own points or are you going to checklist twitter?


I can see components actually blocking airflow on the XsX to the point where one side is going to be cooled and the other, especially if laid on it's side, is going to start frying eggs. Not to mention the top vent which is actually partially blocked by the green plastic inserts further reducing dissipation.

With extended play, in real world conditions, it's going to fun seeing what happens to people's XsX's but to be honest there won't be many games being played for sessions long enough to warrant heat death so I guess the efficiency of the design is moot.

If you were given a PC case of that size and told to put all those components in it, how many of you would stack the blocks that way? I mean airflow is about balance and this arrangement looks brute-forced.

Do you realize that what you're saying that is blocking the Series X airflow is actually a vapor chamber? MS approach of using a dual mobo in fact allows for a more even cooling and distribution of air inflow and at the same time it keeps the form factor smaller if compared to the PS5 more traditional design.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Or perhaps the computer engineering and programming experience. Bitterness and delusion? I'll gladly put my credentials up against yours.

Are you actually arguing that the Xbox XSX internals is well thought out or even had decent amounts of work put into it? Compare it to the elegance of the PS5 design or, for a similar form factor, the 2013 Mac Pro which it clearly derived some kind of inspiration from. The difference in execution is like looking at a Rembrandt painting vs a kindergartner's crayon sketch.

Imagine the bitterness and ignorance one must carry to deny what is so obvious to anyone with even a modicum of knowledge.

To wit:

Behold the skillful engineering and beauty!

This crap is literally why Microsoft continues to be Microsoft, and people not in engineering don't really get it.

How do you look at yourself in the mirror?

 

[Dr Bass]

How do you look at yourself in the mirror?

It's a nice experience, I gotta say.

It's funny how the only thing people who don't seem to like what I have to say can come up with are lame jabs that wouldn't even be effective against a child. Go get a life my brother.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

This crap is literally why Microsoft continues to be Microsoft, and people not in engineering don't really get it.

Fucking thicc.

 

[sinnergy]

If you don't understand that series X is also a design and engineering feature than you clearly have no idea what you are talking about ...

It even has a split motherboard .. that is quite unusual.. and to fit all this stuff in such a tight space is remarkable to say the least ..

 

[kuncol02]

Yeah it doesn't really make much sense to think the Xbox will use more power lol.

Remember, the whole thing about the variable clock speeds on the PS5 is because it has a power budget. It has a constant power draw. If the power draw is known and constant then why would they use a psu thats 50+ watts more than needed? The XSX can use maximum 300 watts. The PS5 can use maximum 350, and while the xbox power draw isn't constant, the PS5s is - so again, if the PS5 power draw is constant, why put a much bigger power unit in than necessary? It makes no sense.

Sony could in theory adopt bigger safety factor when they designed consoles, or even calculate it differently, but I feel like it's to big difference for only that.

 

[Redlight]

lmao. You're calling that a clusterfuck? Like, without even being articulate about why it is? Can you even come up with one of your own points or are you going to checklist twitter?


I can see components actually blocking airflow on the XsX to the point where one side is going to be cooled and the other, especially if laid on it's side, is going to start frying eggs. Not to mention the top vent which is actually partially blocked by the green plastic inserts further reducing dissipation.

With extended play, in real world conditions, it's going to fun seeing what happens to people's XsX's but to be honest there won't be many games being played for sessions long enough to warrant heat death so I guess the efficiency of the design is moot.

If you were given a PC case of that size and told to put all those components in it, how many of you would stack the blocks that way? I mean airflow is about balance and this arrangement looks brute-forced.

Wow. I actually did preorder a Series X but I'm having second thoughts after reading this expert critique.

How could MS spend millions on design and research, hire expert product engineers and electronics wunderkinds of all kinds, test and iterate probably thousands of times and then drop the ball so badly! Oh, how I wish that they'd spoken to Jokerevo first!

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Well sounds like PS5 might be running cooler.

 

[Snake29]

If you don't understand that series X is also a design and engineering feature than you clearly have no idea what you are talking about ...

It even has a split motherboard .. that is quite unusual.. and to fit all this stuff in such a tight space is remarkable to say the least ..

Indeed, but lets wait how the airflow will be and how they cool all components that block the ventilation holes. To me the airflow doesn't look that great in this console.

 

[EDMIX]

All the machines this gen are very ugly.

Ps5 looks like it used to be nice before it melted.

Xbox Series X looks like a NAS or power supply or something.

Xbox Series S looks like an intercom.

Pretty much.

I'm even more hype for the PS5 slim seeing how they have lots of room for a revision later on. I'm still getting one at launch, but still interested in a better looking one down the line like a Slim or Pro etc.

Seriously now, someone better fucking make a Perfect Cell plate cover (I might do it myself shiiiiiiit) lol

 

[Futaleufu]

We went from teraflops to SSDs to temperatures.

Console gaming was a mistake.

 

[Admerer]

Both companies did great in their designs.

Props to Microsoft for delivering the more powerful console in such a small and elegant form factor.

Props to Sony for going the extra mile with making sure the cooling system was up to par with our expectations.

I actually want to buy a XBSX even though I'm heavily invested into the PS ecosystem.
I find either console's design perfectly acceptable.

We'll have to wait for thermal and noise reviews to determine who designed the better console.

 

[Silent Viper]

What's crazy about the PlayStation heat sink? The Xbox has a vapour chamber lol. The Xbox is better engineering because it's more powerful and it's in a significantly smaller console, and the airflow and design seem smarter. Air goes in one end, through the entire console, and out the other.

Smart and sensible post but ppl will not understand

 

[FrankWza]

So again, either ps5 will draw more power (which is expected), or Sony over engineered their cooling solution.

nope. Neither. Because the first one is not why they used this cooling solution. I've explained to you why they did. And I've explained why you cannot over engineer something that is addressing the one major complaint of your last console. They can't have a crazy noisy fan again.They didn't skimp on other parts to get this done. They were coming in at these specs and were going to do everything they could to see that a noisy console would not happen again. I used the 360 to XB1 example because it is a comparable situation. Regardless of when it happened or how long ago it happened. Except Msoft DID skimp and came in way underpowered to BEGIN last gen after THEIR last major complaint.(RROD)
If it ends up being overkill nobody will even know or care. It was still worth the size to try and guarantee a quiet console as long as they didn't sacrifice performance in other areas. Judging by the gameplay trailers, they haven't. More people would have had second thoughts if they didn't do everything they could to address the noise than people concerned with its size, because again, it was THE issue that PS4 owners had. The quote below is from the blog post that had the tear down.

"We felt it was inevitable to make a generational leap in terms of performance in order to deliver a new, next-generation gaming experience. However, to do so, we had to balance every aspect of the system, from focusing on reducing the noise level to enhancing the cooling capacity, more than ever before."

 

[Yoboman]

In the end we've probably got two products that set out to do similar things, and look like they've nailed it while having slightly differing approaches to the problem

But thats all the nuance you'll get from me

 

[Dodkrake]

Reading through the topic, it looks like some people from "both sides" of the "barricade" seem to misunderstand what "good engineering" constitutes. This is a highly subjective subject matter, so you first need to state your goal, then infer on that proposition.

So let's quickly analyze based on what we know from both consoles (visually and by quotes from their Marketing and other reps)

Xbox Series X

• Premise: The idea was to create a console that could fit pretty much anywhere in your media center, that was as powerful as possible. It also needs to be quiet.
• Results: We got a console that is very compact and can easily fit anywhere in your media center, while running quiet. It's also the most powerful console, at least speaking in TFlops. To me, this is good design, because it reaches what it has proposed itself to achieve.
• The compromises: To achieve such design, the console's GPU needs to be clocked lower than comparable cards from the same architecture. It also seems to be running hot, but this is not to say it will overheat. Please don't think I'm stating that.

PS5

• Premise: The idea was to create a console that ran as fast as possible while being cool and quiet so as to prevent past gen's issues
• Results: We got a console that by player reports runs cool and quiet. No data on running fast, but going by GPU clockspeeds, this seems to have been achieved.
• The compromises: To reach such high clocks, the console needs to have a bigger than normal cooling design, as well as a bigger than normal shell. This makes it less accessible to be placed in some smaller media centers.

These are all objective points, and show that both consoles have reached their proposed design philosophies and ideas. If mechanically their designs can be considered form over function? We're yet to see, but so far nothing indicates that one or the other are poorly designed.

 

[AgentP]

The Xbox one X is superior to the PS4 Pro in every way as far as I've read. Heat output is more for Pro, less power. I never owned an Xbox one X but my Pro sounds like a jet engine. I'm not as confident in Sony as I was 20 years ago to build quality machines, everything about my Pro felt cheap and thrown together, while being hideous in design. I just happen to prefer Sony games and VR.

Pro came out 1 year earlier, that seems overlooked.

 

[FrankWza]

Pro came out 1 year earlier, that seems overlooked.

you're right. I forgot about this in some of myposts when the size and quietness of the onex was mentioned. Makes it less impressivethat they had an extra year. It was more powerful and smaller than pro but did they have a choice after the discrepancy in launch consoles size and power in 2013?

 

[Romulus]

Pro came out 1 year earlier, that seems overlooked.

I'm more referring to Pro's size and heat output, despite being less powerful. The reason why it has less power is another discussion, but the time lapse is the most important factor.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Haven't completely read through the thread yet, but who's piece of plastic is winning the argument for best piece of plastic? And do y'all think the argument will be done before nap time?

 

[Lort]

Pro came out 1 year earlier, that seems overlooked.

That just explains why its performance is worse not why its loud as a jet, that was Sonys choice / bad design.

 

[Gavon West]

Damn, I just can't get over how massive the PS5 is. It's basically a PC.

PC/Truck/?

 

[Gavon West]

Series X is just a master class of design in every way.

Other people may laugh at this statement but the Series X is hands down the best design. Smaller, more powerful and still quiet. Thats the epitome of great hardware design. Anyone calling the PS5 great or brilliant in comparison to the Series X is lying to themselves. Itll do its job well enough though.

 

[Gavon West]

First off someone with an account from 2017 with 68 posts has no valeu to me.

Not a good trait in this day and age?
Jumping to conclusion yet you are the one saying xbox proves ps5 doesnt have to be as big but when i point out that xbox runs fucking hot like extreme hot and maybe its a good thing ps5 is as big you tell me i know shit and make shit up and youtubers just click bait etc they all lie......

Buddy you are a joke.
You are a funny man

Series X isnt running hot. Fanboy FUD from Sony fanboys. Its already been debunked but rabid Sony fans took the bate and ran with it. The PS5 is decent but it falls face first in comparison to the Series X and S.

My personal opinion about the exterior is its ugly AF. Seriously. It literally SCREAMS Im a viceo game machine. Thats horrible.

 

[AgentP]

That just explains why its performance is worse not why its loud as a jet, that was Sonys choice / bad design.

You don't think one year of time plays into the amount of performance they get per dollar? How about pitting that 2019 RTX2080 vs a 2020 RTX3080?

 

[Truespeed]

Series X isnt running hot. Fanboy FUD from Sony fanboys. Its already been debunked but rabid Sony fans took the bate and ran with it. The PS5 is decent but it falls face first in comparison to the Series X and S.

My personal opinion about the exterior is its ugly AF. Seriously. It literally SCREAMS Im a viceo game machine. Thats horrible.

The PS5 has a design language and was actually designed by an experienced design team. The Xbox Series X looks like a cheap Hisense fridge void of any design aesthetic. It's what you get when you ask an intern from the Excel team to design your console when he's not tightening up the graphics in Halo 5.

 

[The Inventor]

They are both machines and they both were built with a purpouse.
If they end up having no issues, then the smaller, minimalistic and (on paper) more powerful Series X would be the better machine, don't you think?

 

[M16]

ps5, bigger but much weaker
they had to overclock it to shit, put on a massive cooler and liquid metal to soften the blow as much as they could
how anybody can say good design baffles me. just straight fanboyism

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

You miat have missed all the videos about how hot the xbox is. Borderline burn inducing.

I'm waiting on a revised version before I buy it. I'd say in a year or two I'll get one. I think it's going to be a big issue after launch.

 

[MasterCornholio]

ps5, bigger but much weaker
they had to overclock it to shit, put on a massive cooler and liquid metal to soften the blow as much as they could
how anybody can say good design baffles me. just straight fanboyism

The XSS is what I would consider "much weaker". Not the PS5 though.

 

[Andodalf]

Yeah it doesn't really make much sense to think the Xbox will use more power lol.

Remember, the whole thing about the variable clock speeds on the PS5 is because it has a power budget. It has a constant power draw. If the power draw is known and constant then why would they use a psu thats 50+ watts more than needed? The XSX can use maximum 300 watts. The PS5 can use maximum 350, and while the xbox power draw isn't constant, the PS5s is - so again, if the PS5 power draw is constant, why put a much bigger power unit in than necessary? It makes no sense.

The PS5 doesn't have a set Power budget, the APU does. If the console had a set power budget, then charging your controller would mean lowering the APU spped which would be terrible. Adding an expansion NVME will add more to the budget. Spinning a disk drive. Using a USB device. APU being constant =/= console being constant.



The XSX has a design that is efficient and proficient above all else. People saying that's a poorly thought out design are idiots. You can not like it, but it's objectively successful and their split Mobo that enables it is very innovative.

 

[sendit]

While my opinion on which console looks better goes towards the PS5. I can't honestly say the PS5 internals where put together better than the XSX. Just look how cleanly every inch of space is used (XSX).

 

[Knitted Knight]

The XSX has a design that is efficient and proficient above all else. People saying that's a poorly thought out design are idiots. You can not like it, but it's objectively successful and their split Mobo that enables it is very innovative.

I think it's not unreasonable to say that there should be some healthy skepticism at the very least when you look at this and some of the reports going around:

Vs. this marketing animation.

 

[lachesis]

Well, I respect Sony's approach of trying to keep the traditional console design with abundance of cooling solution. I think they did good job with inside layout. Everything seems to have purpose to it - and that strange form is to compensate that inner workings and airflow - how the forehead of the console is curved to force the air's direction internally towards APU and PSU side, etc.

Having said so... by trying to stick to the traditional console single board layout, it made the console the largest ever, and I'm not really too sure if it was the right choice... or had they had any choice to begin with. All the reinforcement around APU, really show that they were worried about MB bending and all - as the sheer physical size of the board is pretty large.

Although very unlikely, I wonder if the rumors of Sony trying to play catch up game by OC'ing the GPU more than they planned for are true and maybe it ended up playing a role in the design of the console? (I mean, MS originally showed the design of Series X on December of last year - and we didn't even get to see PS5's design until full 6 month after - June of 2020, and Cerny's presentation was in April 2020, which by then MS already have working prototype of XSX and laid all their chips to the press, except the price.) Of course, it's just a rumor - so I could be very wrong, that Sony just wanted to keep the cards close to.

I also respect MS's approach of thinking outside of the box, which is ironically shaped like a shoebox. In this case, it looks like the console itself is designed to fit to the box, although the thermal solution was pretty much "given" when you think of such shape - aka, Apple's Mac Pro 2013... even though Mac Pro (which I've been using it for several years now) had weird triangle shaped cooling fins - and it gets pretty warm on top. Either way, by doing so, they achieved more powerful and more compact console - which I find also is quite commendable... and it only cost $499, not $3000 like Mac Pro. By dividing MB into 2 sections and reinforced by the central metal chasis - it's really unlikely that the board would warp like Xbox 360.

While XSX is marginally lighter than PS5, due to the size differences, I think XSX would feel much denser & heavier, feeling really like a brick - and PS5 may be large, it probably would feel much lighter than its look. It is certainly lighter than original Fat PS3 by more than 1lb.

But as a fan of video games, and also physical "consoles" - I am very much excited to get my hands on both of them in a few weeks.

 

[SatansReverence]

I think it's not unreasonable to say that there should be some healthy skepticism at the very least when you look at this and some of the reports going around:

Vs. this marketing animation.

How many times do you need to be told that there are air intakes on the back?

 

[lachesis]

I think it's not unreasonable to say that there should be some healthy skepticism at the very least when you look at this and some of the reports going around:

Vs. this marketing animation.

I also think the animation is pretty misleading - I think bulk - more than 50% of the air for the heat sink would to come in from the large rear vents near the ports, not from the bottom. There's huge space below the heat sink, and also large amount of holes towards the backward of the console near by the HDMI/SSD ports.

Of course there will be a little bit of air coming in from bottom - but it will be more of helpful in terms of redirecting the airflow from the rear port than actual volume of air coming in.

ODD side does look quite cramped - so I'm little curious of how the airflow would be like. Perhaps that metal shielding between ODD and IO board would have more openings than demo unit? PSU unit would need some venting too... and we shall see what it's like in real thing, hopefully soon.

 

[Cleared_Hot]

The Xbox internal design is so bad compared to what Sony did with the PS5. The Xbox parts are just mashed together with a fan on top with so many of the holes blocked. If you put the Xbox sideways the big round stand just sits there looking ridiculous, not to mention blocking nearly all air intake. The PS5 has a freakin' compartment for the attachment screw and they even give you a small bit to fill the screw hole when you lay it sideways. So much attention to detail. It's just a completely different approach to system design, and sadly the Xbox XSX continues Microsoft's "legendary" design chops. I don't get how Microsoft can still churn out the kinds of products it does in every area when they have decades of seeing superior competition. They don't even seem to get why they turn out inferior products. It's maddening.

Well hey now... Surface's are dope and definitely nice than the macbooks the last 5 years

 

[Dr Bass]

Well hey now... Surface's are dope and definitely nice than the macbooks the last 5 years

I disagree, but to each their own.

 

[Knitted Knight]

How many times do you need to be told that there are air intakes on the back?

What the hell are you taking about lol? I know there are intakes on the port side. And if I believe correctly, you argued against the idea of those very port-side intakes being the best thing going for the console design. On that thread you called everyone who disagreed with your claims a clown. Take a hike.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I disagree, but to each their own.

Macbooks are honestly shit when you realize price to performance, since they value form over function. Surface laptops have better gpu's, and have even better form as well as function. Anyone in the industry acknowledges this.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What the hell are you taking about lol? I know there are intakes on the port side. And if I believe correctly, you argued against the idea of them being the best thing going for the console design on that thread you called everyone who disagreed with your claims a clown. Take a hike.

If you know there are intake on the port side, why even post that to insinuate FUD? All of your posts recently incite a bit of FUD.

 

[ethomaz]

Well hey now... Surface's are dope and definitely nice than the macbooks the last 5 years

Well each own their own.
I should never take a Suface over a MacBook unless it is free
MacBook design and construction are still amazing.

 

[Knitted Knight]

If you know there are intake on the port side, why even post that to insinuate FUD? All of your posts recently incite a bit of FUD.

Well the obvious being that there are two rows of port-side intakes. Only 1 row directly feeds the APU, and half of those holes on both rows are somewhat blocked. Add to that the low elevation of the stand, and any location where the port sides don't get enough air coming in and you have poor air circulation. The post I quoted said the XSX was designed with efficiency in mind, and was a proficient design. I merely said, looking at all the info we have now - the pics of the system, hands-on reports etc.. that there should be healthy skepticism on that idea; specially if the counter argument is based on marketing animations taken at face value. Cry elsewhere about FUD.

 

[SatansReverence]

What the hell are you taking about lol? I know there are intakes on the port side. And if I believe correctly, you argued against the idea of those very port-side intakes being the best thing going for the console design. On that thread you called everyone who disagreed with your claims a clown. Take a hike.

The XSX has intakes on the back and the bottom. The APU side has unobstructed fresh air intakes directly over the large vapour chamber to the fan. The rest of the components that produce a fraction of the heat are cooled through the other side.

But here you are, trying to spread your bullshit once again.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Well the obvious being that there are two rows of port-side intakes. Only 1 row directly feeds the APU, and half of those holes on both rows are somewhat blocked. Add to that the low elevation of the stand, and any location where the port sides don't get enough airflow and you have poor air circulation. The post I quoted said the XSX was designed with efficiency in mind, and was a proficient design. I merely said, looking at all the info we have now - the pics of the system, hands-on reportse etc that there should be healthy skepticism on that idea; specially if the counter argument is based on marketing animations taken at face value. Cry elsewhere about FUD.

Is that early review or consumer release hardware? If you honestly know this, please let us know?

 

[Knitted Knight]

Is that early review or consumer release hardware? If you honestly know this, please let us know?

Why don't you expand on the point you're trying to make instead of crying FUD. Otherwise why take you seriously?

 

[Kagey K]

You don't think one year of time plays into the amount of performance they get per dollar? How about pitting that 2019 RTX2080 vs a 2020 RTX3080?

Did airflow change in that year? They couldn't have made it quieter because people knew something about air in 2018 that they didn't understand in 2017?


This is a fucking stupid argument.