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[sunnysideup]

You are purposefully misunderstanding the situation. Of course, you are a MS fanboy so for you this is a win and a victory lap, but there are more reasons to be upset rather than "mommy, I don't want the other kids to play my games" as you are trying to put it.

Look at it this way, what is the most popular graphics card around? A GTX 1050 or so? People are annoyed about the XSS holding back the generation, now most games need to be designed with a really low baseline, with the higher specs versions just being some sliders pushed to the right, it's sad.

How about I/O? All the potential of the i/O subsystem will be under-utilised, because now games will need to be designed with less than half of the 5.5 GB/s I/O speed. Coding of the engine used to be only about maximising a single platform, now it's just a bunch of properties files, just like what the Xbox SX is or what the XSS is.

It's rather sad and annoying to see an era of gaming being lost, it's something that's objectively bad for PS fans, as we gain lose the design of the games exclusively with our console as a baseline and gain nothing. If you think that's not worth to get upset about then I don't know what to tell you.

Yep.

If the games are made in the same way as multiplatform games are, a lot of the appeal is lost. You are not seeing the potential of the hardware and probably getting a subpar experience. Seeing the developer go beyond what previously thought was possible on the hardware has always been such a big part of my interest in the hobby. From playing lionheart on amiga, to thunder force 4 on megadrive, to vagrant story on psx, god of war 2 on ps2 to uncharted 2 on ps3. Getting that tailored experience is such big part of why i like console gaming.

 

[rofif]

I know it's playing great, but it's hard to go back after 1440p high-refresh rate. Also I really sensitive to frame-pacing issues. It's pure technical reasons that make me wait and don't watch any content regarding BB.
At first I've waited for "pro" patch, now for PS5 patch, also both of those consoles don't support 1440p native (shame!). If we get PC version it will be better than both of those.

I understand. I play 4k 60 locked 58fps myself but going back to 30fps 1080p bloodborne is no big deal. i even had 240hz monitor and 144hz monitor.
Don't elite limit yourself. Some ignorance is bliss. Well not now - now the pc version is coming so wait

 

[mindfreak191]

I own or have played all of the mentioned tittles, except Ghost of Tsushima, I will gladly drop money on PC versions of said ports since I don't own a ps4 anymore and a PS5 is still long off. As someone above me said, if you're seriously getting upset that videogames are becoming accessible on multiple platforms, then you should sit down and rethink your priorities in life, and grow up.

 

[EverydayBeast]

PC gamer: give me every game, I'll have the roms anyway

 

[Azurro]

Yep.

If the games are made in the same way as multiplatform games are, a lot of the appeal is lost. You are not seeing the potential of the hardware and probably getting a subpar experience. Seeing the developer go beyond what previously thought was possible on the hardware has always been such a big part of my interest in the hobby. From playing lionheart on amiga, to thunder force 4 on megadrive, to vagrant story on psx, god of war 2 on ps2 to uncharted 2 on ps3. Getting that tailored experience is such big part of why i like console gaming.

Exactly. Under this new philosophy, would a Ratchet & Clank PS5 have been designed as it is? Will it ever happen again? What about the potential for moving objects in and out of memory per frame to increase asset complexity as suggested by Cerny in the PS5 presentation? That is probably out of the window at this point and just replaced with much faster loading times.

While I do care about the financial situation of the company, since usually a profitable venture means it will hang around for a while, I don't care enough about their finances for it to be in my personal detriment with a lower quality of game design.

 

[Derktron]

Many people refuse to understand that companies like Microsoft and now Sony see the potential to adding their games to PC as a secondary market for them. I personally don't see the issues, especially for Sony. People will regardless of anything still buy Sony consoles. Because the fanboys of Sony don't know shit about the market, not everyone owns a PC and does not want a PC. So conventional consoles will still be a thing.

 

[The Fartist]

I would understand some outrage if they simultaneously released their games on PS5 and PC, but we're talking about years apart here people, on Playstation 1st then 2, 3, even 4 years later on PC. This would A: drive some PC users to buy a Sony console knowing they would have to wait years to play a sequel on PC and B: generate more money for said sequel. It's win win.

Get a fucking grip.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yep.

If the games are made in the same way as multiplatform games are, a lot of the appeal is lost. You are not seeing the potential of the hardware and probably getting a subpar experience. Seeing the developer go beyond what previously thought was possible on the hardware has always been such a big part of my interest in the hobby. From playing lionheart on amiga, to thunder force 4 on megadrive, to vagrant story on psx, god of war 2 on ps2 to uncharted 2 on ps3. Getting that tailored experience is such big part of why i like console gaming.

This frame of mind is a fallacy.

There isn't a single game on the PS4 platform that did anything special hardware-wise that a PC graphics card couldn't do. This type of thinking is completely pre-ps4 line of thinking when custom hardware was completely unorthodox. The PC graphics cards and games that had graphics features were always superior to the console hardware post PS3. Part of this is because they are tied to AMD - which is significantly behind the curveball on graphics features and tech. Secondly, it's the fact that the consoles get the low-mid range GPU in power.

The I/O is brand new this generation. And to speak to that, there hasn't been a single exclusive game that has come out that utiltilizes the I/O further than faster loading times. And that's not even significant over the conventional SSD on a PC. The UE5 demo also demonstrated that the bandwidth requirements for that demo was well within what is available now on the PC. Once DirectStorage comes into play, there will be no "superior" I/O for the consoles. It will already be out before the first game even uses assets the way that UE5 demo did.

Simply put, the consoles will always be the low common denominator in game development targets - not the GPUs made for PCs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This frame of mind is a fallacy.

There isn't a single game on the PS4 platform that did anything special hardware-wise that a PC graphics card couldn't do. This type of thinking is completely pre-ps4 line of thinking when custom hardware was completely unorthodox. The PC graphics cards and games that had graphics features were always superior to the console hardware post PS3. Part of this is because they are tied to AMD - which is significantly behind the curveball on graphics features and tech. Secondly, it's the fact that the consoles get the low-mid range GPU in power.

The I/O is brand new this generation. And to speak to that, there hasn't been a single exclusive game that has come out that utiltilizes the I/O further than faster loading times. And that's not even significant over the conventional SSD on a PC. The UE5 demo also demonstrated that the bandwidth requirements for that demo was well within what is available now on the PC. Once DirectStorage comes into play, there will be no "superior" I/O for the consoles. It will already be out before the first game even uses assets the way that UE5 demo did.

Simply put, the consoles will always be the low common denominator in game development targets - not the GPUs made for PCs.

Totally.

But the thinking is since it's PS exclusive, Sony gamers get to cherry pic things without a PC to compare against. And everyone knows a high end rig beats a console every time except for short term launch gains, or the archaic cartridge days when a console could do tons of fast scrolling sprites with parallax scrolling and PC was best for point and click games and turn based baseball games.

So it's bragging rights to say something is the best, but is weird since there is no other system to compete against it for a direct comparison. But all these PS ports lately from Quantic Dream games, Horizon and Death Stranding all look much better on a good PC than any PS4 or PS4 Pro.

What Sony gamers fear is a floodgates open strategy where a PC version is immediately available for comparison.

 

[VFXVeteran]

So it's bragging rights to say something is the best, but is weird since there is no other system to compete against it for a direct comparison. But all these PS ports lately from Quantic Dream games, Horizon and Death Stranding all look much better on a good PC than any PS4 or PS4 Pro.

Yep. I think that is more of the reasoning with people being pissed. This PS vs. the world mentality would disappear because whatever exclusive comes out on PC will 100% dwarf the presentation of the PS version. I think people know this and that their ammunition to argue about the special unique games from the talented studios like ND, Santa Monica, CP, etc.. would all be unwound. Those companies will still be great, but having to bring their vision to the PC with way more power on tap would be a dream come true for them.

What Sony gamers fear is a floodgates open strategy where a PC version is immediately available for comparison.

Yea, that's going to happen anyway. HZD now is outstanding on the PC. Since GG got their engine up to snuff now, their next iteration (H:FW) will go without a hitch when it comes to the PC.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

Can someone explain Sony's strategy of releasing all their games on PC?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yep. I think that is more of the reasoning with people being pissed. This PS vs. the world mentality would disappear because whatever exclusive comes out on PC will 100% dwarf the presentation of the PS version. I think people know this and that their ammunition to argue about the special unique games from the talented studios like ND, Santa Monica, CP, etc.. would all be unwound. Those companies will still be great, but having to bring their vision to the PC with way more power on tap would be a dream come true for them.


Yea, that's going to happen anyway. HZD now is outstanding on the PC. Since GG got their engine up to snuff now, their next iteration (H:FW) will go without a hitch when it comes to the PC.

Historically PC would be it's own world, but since MS is so intertwined with it with Xbox features and GP, Sony gamers not only lose the fight to dedicated PC gamers with good rigs.

But also to those Xbox gamers with good rigs too, or who gravitated to PC. Xbox + PC can be swapped depending who the gamer is. PS + PC are more isolated due to exclusive first party games. So MS has a secondary position in PC gaming.

So when PC wins, MS also wins too.

PS gamers last bastion of bragging is having an exclusive beat dedicated Xbox hardware. When those Sony exclusives come out on PC and beat PS, the bragging will be silly as it's bragging for second best.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Can someone explain Sony's strategy of releasing all their games on PC?

They haven't. They've cherry picked certain games and certain time lines. There is no "all games for PC strategy". At least not yet or anytime soon.

But the point for Sony doing it is to sell more games on another platform (PC). The fact they have stressed more are coming means the strategy is working. Sales earned from PC outweigh and negative reactions from PS gamers wanting a walled garden.

Think of it like the early days of Apple in the 80s and 90s with their walled ecosystem. Then suddenly they morph into Mac with standard specs, MS Office and Windows is allowed to work, iTunes works on PC (at the beginning it only worked on Apple products) etc..... The walled garden broke down when the billions in sales came in no matter how much loyal hardcore Mac users from 1988 didn't like everyone buying iPods and Macs.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Can someone explain Sony's strategy of releasing all their games on PC?

 

[martino]

Somewhat off-topic.



Trailer came out a few hours ago. Looks like I'll be following this acct lol

I'm so ready for this

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Can someone explain Sony's strategy of releasing all their games on PC?

Money.

 

[Dream-Knife]

You are purposefully misunderstanding the situation. Of course, you are a MS fanboy so for you this is a win and a victory lap, but there are more reasons to be upset rather than "mommy, I don't want the other kids to play my games" as you are trying to put it.

Look at it this way, what is the most popular graphics card around? A GTX 1050 or so? People are annoyed about the XSS holding back the generation, now most games need to be designed with a really low baseline, with the higher specs versions just being some sliders pushed to the right, it's sad.

How about I/O? All the potential of the i/O subsystem will be under-utilised, because now games will need to be designed with less than half of the 5.5 GB/s I/O speed. Coding of the engine used to be only about maximising a single platform, now it's just a bunch of properties files, just like what the Xbox SX is or what the XSS is.

It's rather sad and annoying to see an era of gaming being lost, it's something that's objectively bad for PS fans, as we gain lose the design of the games exclusively with our console as a baseline and gain nothing. If you think that's not worth to get upset about then I don't know what to tell you.

Based on your logic, nothing would ever improve. Plenty of games come out to challenge hardware. Crysis 15 years ago and today MS flight simulator 2020.

You realize that consoles are just PCs as well right? My pc has Zen 3 and RDNA2. Your PS5 for Xbox has Zen 2 and RDNA 2.

 

[Sentenza]

You wouldn't think it's that hard to figure out, right?

 

[Guilty_AI]

You are purposefully misunderstanding the situation. Of course, you are a MS fanboy so for you this is a win and a victory lap, but there are more reasons to be upset rather than "mommy, I don't want the other kids to play my games" as you are trying to put it.

Look at it this way, what is the most popular graphics card around? A GTX 1050 or so? People are annoyed about the XSS holding back the generation, now most games need to be designed with a really low baseline, with the higher specs versions just being some sliders pushed to the right, it's sad.

How about I/O? All the potential of the i/O subsystem will be under-utilised, because now games will need to be designed with less than half of the 5.5 GB/s I/O speed. Coding of the engine used to be only about maximising a single platform, now it's just a bunch of properties files, just like what the Xbox SX is or what the XSS is.

It's rather sad and annoying to see an era of gaming being lost, it's something that's objectively bad for PS fans, as we gain lose the design of the games exclusively with our console as a baseline and gain nothing. If you think that's not worth to get upset about then I don't know what to tell you.

You shan't worry. All these concerns are basically delusions born out of clueless people gossiping in gaming forums.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Why would anyone have issue with 3 year old games getting ported to PC? They have been discounted at bargain process forever or would have been by the time they arrive.

Their drawing power has been utilised already. Now they can cash in with a different audience. If you are fine paying for 3 year old ports and that excites you then this is perfect.

This is such a non issue.

 

[Azurro]

Yep. I think that is more of the reasoning with people being pissed. This PS vs. the world mentality would disappear because whatever exclusive comes out on PC will 100% dwarf the presentation of the PS version. I think people know this and that their ammunition to argue about the special unique games from the talented studios like ND, Santa Monica, CP, etc.. would all be unwound. Those companies will still be great, but having to bring their vision to the PC with way more power on tap would be a dream come true for them.

That's silly, there is no "more power on tap" as you put it, all PC games target a GTX 1050 or so as a baseline, you are just getting a slider to the right in terms of settings. A few extra trees here and there, some fluffier clouds, slightly sharper ray tracing reflections. The power of a 3080 is completely wasted on merely resolution and framerate.

I wanted to see much greater asset complexity and higher polygon counts, instead I get a few extra trees and some longer draw distance because everything will have to cater to shittier specs. I find this very underwhelming.

StreetsofBeige you misunderstand, I mean, fanboys will be fanboys and are irrational, but a legitimate fan does have a reason to be annoyed. Not because of some nebulous "fight" against Xbox fanboys or PC, I honestly can't care less if the games show up on PC, and I think very little about Xbox and it's fans, but because games won't be targeting the next generation hardware, but rather antiquated PC graphics cards. It's one of those things I've never liked about PC gaming, it's always been the lowest common denominator in mind with some bells and whistles for bigger graphics cards like ray tracing. It's fundamentally the same visuals, just the performance is wasted on resolution and framerate.

We are getting stuck in 2015 or 2016 visuals for a few more years on PS because of this ridiculous decision.

 

[VFXVeteran]

That's silly, there is no "more power on tap" as you put it, all PC games target a GTX 1050 or so as a baseline, you are just getting a slider to the right in terms of settings. A few extra trees here and there, some fluffier clouds, slightly sharper ray tracing reflections. The power of a 3080 is completely wasted on merely resolution and framerate.

That is completely untrue. Higher resolution textures, better anistropic filtering, longer LOD of those "trees" you are talking about, much more accurate AO, added RT features like area lights, and more accurate shadows make a significant difference in rendering quality - not to mention added benefit of playing it at a true 4k unlocked FPS makes a world of difference. Many of the PS fans want Bloodborne to run at 60FPS without any other changes to the graphics engine and they'd count it as a complete and utter huge difference in gameplay. Please stop downplaying the added benefits of a PC version of the consoles. It's not such a trivial thing.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

That is completely untrue. Higher resolution textures, better anistropic filtering, longer LOD of those "trees" you are talking about, much more accurate AO, added RT features like area lights, and more accurate shadows make a significant difference in rendering quality - not to mention added benefit of playing it at a true 4k unlocked FPS makes a world of difference. Many of the PS fans want Bloodborne to run at 60FPS without any other changes to the graphics engine and they'd count it as a complete and utter huge difference in gameplay. Please stop downplaying the added benefits of a PC version of the consoles. It's not such a trivial thing.

Glad to see you back posting frequently.

 

[THEAP99]

I question why Sony doesn't create a launcher or a storefront where psn accounts can be linked and have cross progression. In that case I'd maybe consider going to PC

 

[Azurro]

That is completely untrue. Higher resolution textures, better anistropic filtering, longer LOD of those "trees" you are talking about, much more accurate AO, added RT features like area lights, and more accurate shadows make a significant difference in rendering quality - not to mention added benefit of playing it at a true 4k unlocked FPS makes a world of difference. Many of the PS fans want Bloodborne to run at 60FPS without any other changes to the graphics engine and they'd count it as a complete and utter huge difference in gameplay. Please stop downplaying the added benefits of a PC version of the consoles. It's not such a trivial thing.

You are not contradicting anything that I've said. You just get some slightly sharper shadows, some better AO, some slightly sharper textures. Honestly, it's really underwhelming, it's still the same basic visuals.

I know you are a huge PC fanboy, but you were raving about the latest Watch dogs and that game is the same exact visuals just with Ray tracing reflections. After 7 years since the previous generation I would expect a lot more than a some boost in resolution and some better trees.

Is it a better experience? Sure. Does it change the visuals underneath? Nah, not in the least. Some sharper shadows and higher framerates but the same last generation visuals with fancy reflections. Big fucking whoop.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Is it a better experience? Sure. Does it change the visuals underneath? Nah, not in the least. Some sharper shadows and higher framerates but the same last generation visuals with fancy reflections. Big fucking whoop.

If you are ok with the less-than-stellar iteration of a game, then why are people stating they'll get a PC if all the exclusives release to it? We would all be happy right now and no one would be complaining 11 pages into a thread.

 

[Ellery]

Awesome. Finally my PC friends get to play some super juicy games they have missed out on.

I might buy one or two of those games for PC as well, but that mostly depends on what is happening to the PS5 counterparts (if they are getting patches for 4K60fps as well).

 

[Fahdis]

You are not contradicting anything that I've said. You just get some slightly sharper shadows, some better AO, some slightly sharper textures. Honestly, it's really underwhelming, it's still the same basic visuals.

I know you are a huge PC fanboy, but you were raving about the latest Watch dogs and that game is the same exact visuals just with Ray tracing reflections. After 7 years since the previous generation I would expect a lot more than a some boost in resolution and some better trees.

Is it a better experience? Sure. Does it change the visuals underneath? Nah, not in the least. Some sharper shadows and higher framerates but the same last generation visuals with fancy reflections. Big fucking whoop.

So why are you so hot and bothered by it coming to PC again?

 

[Azurro]

If you are ok with the less-than-stellar iteration of a game, then why are people stating they'll get a PC if all the exclusives release to it? We would all be happy right now and no one would be complaining 11 pages into a thread.

Because a change of generation used to represent a change in visuals, a leap in terms of rendering quality, assets, everything. I thought it would be a lot more interesting to have visuals with the baseline of a 2080 and I/O of 5.5 GB/s with a highly efficient compression/decompression subsystem.

Instead we are supposed to find, to quote Leadbetter, "a transformative experience" to have some extra trees, some slightly higher resolution AO and sharper shadows. From an academic perspective I do believe some people might find that indeed very good, but from a practical perspective, aside from framerate and to a lesser degree resolution (anything above 1440p is diminishing returns), does anyone even notice any of those during gameplay?

Now that games have to target the lowest common denominator on PC, I'm afraid all we got was a graphics card upgrade instead of a new generation. Nice, but hardly anything revolutionary.

Besides, you haven't replied to what I mentioned before: you find incredible the visuals of a game like Watch Dogs Legion, which is a game that runs on a toaster, it just has some ray tracing bolted on top. I fundamentally disagree with that appreciation for visuals.

 

[demigod]

This is good news as long as 1st party games from Sony doesn't release day 1 on PC. In fact I was hoping this would happen after the PS4 came out and I wasn't able to play PS3 games on it. I'm fine with 6+months out. This means they'll get more sales and are able to make more badass games. Some of y'all are acting like you'll stop buying PS games cause it's coming to PC. Go buy a god damn switch and play there exclusively. Me? I'll be buying games on PS5 and double dip on PC.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Because a change of generation used to represent a change in visuals, a leap in terms of rendering quality, assets, everything. I thought it would be a lot more interesting to have visuals with the baseline of a 2080 and I/O of 5.5 GB/s with a highly efficient compression/decompression subsystem.

Instead we are supposed to find, to quote Leadbetter, "a transformative experience" to have some extra trees, some slightly higher resolution AO and sharper shadows. From an academic perspective I do believe some people might find that indeed very good, but from a practical perspective, aside from framerate and to a lesser degree resolution (anything above 1440p is diminishing returns), does anyone even notice any of those during gameplay?

Now that games have to target the lowest common denominator on PC, I'm afraid all we got was a graphics card upgrade instead of a new generation. Nice, but hardly anything revolutionary.

I mean the consoles got the power of a 2080. What did you expect to happen more than an actual 2080 game on the PC? It's a mid-tier graphics card that chokes on heavy bandwidth requirements. The latest techniques in graphics is RT. You knew that if the PC 2080s didn't have enough bandwidth to harness the full feature set, then a console wasn't going to do it either. Even my 3090 @4k can't handle some of the bandwidth requirements of some games. Keeping 1440p resolution alone eats up most of the performance advantage over the PS4s/Xbox1s. Throw in actual 16x anisotropic filtering for textures and higher res textures > 1k, you are damn near at the peak of the console's GPU power.

 

[Pipoqueiro]

If we look at the other posts, there are several extremely unlikely things, like a remake of Chrono Trigger.

https://twitter.com/CrazyLeaksTrain?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1282095106712051727%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Tales of Arise in the Game Pass in the middle of 2021, and the game has no date yet (not to mention a remaster of Skies of Arcadia which also seems unlikely).






And even a Microsoft portable?




That is, there are several posts shooting everywhere and, luckily, one was true. That is, he is not an insider. It's just a random account that hit a kick (Kingdom Hearts), made other absurd kicks and launches some posts with rumors that are already circulating and therefore have more chance of materializing.

And we also know that another game from sony is coming to PC because it has already been confirmed. But it is very unlikely to be a system seller

 

[Azurro]

I mean the consoles got the power of a 2080. What did you expect to happen more than an actual 2080 game on the PC? It's a mid-tier graphics card that chokes on heavy bandwidth requirements. The latest techniques in graphics is RT. You knew that if the PC 2080s didn't have enough bandwidth to harness the full feature set, then a console wasn't going to do it either. Even my 3090 @4k can't handle some of the bandwidth requirements of some games. Keeping 1440p resolution alone eats up most of the performance advantage over the PS4s/Xbox1s. Throw in actual 16x anisotropic filtering for textures and higher res textures > 1k, you are damn near at the peak of the console's GPU power.

I'll ask you a question, is there really absolutely nothing to gain to target a 2080 and a really fast I/O subsystem as a baseline? Is there really nothing new that can't be done with a 1050 and a slow bottlenecked SSD? That's the new baseline, btw. Is there nothing better to use the extra performance rather than on some extra trees and fluffier clouds that can't be perceived during gameplay? Because I find that prospect depressing, tbh.

BTW, can't you use something else other than native 4K? It's a waste of resources, the differences between that and 1440p are minimal, while the graphics card has to draw 2.25x more pixels.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Every territory matters IMO. 10 million sales is not to be scoffed at and losing Japan is a serious failure.

No matter the demographics. They need to sow the seeds of the future with the younger generations in Japan.

No as the market aint there. They don't do the PS5 type gaming devices.
Can't blame Sony that they prefer casual games like Animal Crossings and Ring Fit Adventure.

 

[AV]

If we look at the other posts, there are several extremely unlikely things, like a remake of Chrono Trigger.

https://twitter.com/CrazyLeaksTrain?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1282095106712051727%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Tales of Arise in the Game Pass in the middle of 2021, and the game has no date yet (not to mention a remaster of Skies of Arcadia which also seems unlikely).

And even a Microsoft portable?

That is, there are several posts shooting everywhere and, luckily, one was true. That is, he is not an insider. It's just a random account that hit a kick (Kingdom Hearts), made other absurd kicks and launches some posts with rumors that are already circulating and therefore have more chance of materializing.

And we also know that another game from sony is coming to PC because it has already been confirmed. But it is very unlikely to be a system seller

One? Try three so far, ignore the dates, that stuff is going to change wildly.

And it's not "another game", it's a whole slate of games, which will most likely include Ghost of Tsushima as Tweeted by him last June, reconfirmed recently.

Not saying he's going to be 100% right but it's too much to ignore when he's Tweeted so little. MS can very much be "working on" a handheld without ever deciding to do anything with it. You really think they haven't at least worked on one at any point in Xbox's lifespan just to see how it goes..?

 

[kyliethicc]

I mean the consoles got the power of a 2080. What did you expect to happen more than an actual 2080 game on the PC? It's a mid-tier graphics card that chokes on heavy bandwidth requirements. The latest techniques in graphics is RT. You knew that if the PC 2080s didn't have enough bandwidth to harness the full feature set, then a console wasn't going to do it either. Even my 3090 @4k can't handle some of the bandwidth requirements of some games. Keeping 1440p resolution alone eats up most of the performance advantage over the PS4s/Xbox1s. Throw in actual 16x anisotropic filtering for textures and higher res textures > 1k, you are damn near at the peak of the console's GPU power.

Its not about resolution or frame rates. Its about legitimate generational leaps in the art form.

None of us have really seen a RTX 2080 running games built around a 2080 as min spec yet. What we've seen a 2080 do so far is run games built around PS4 spec, just running at higher settings, res, fps, etc. But it could do much more. Sure Red Dead Redemption 2 looks great on a 2080, but it had to be able to run on much weaker specs and consoles. If it did not, it could have looker much better (because we know Rockstar has the time & budget.)

I think his concern is that if Sony is going to make their PS5 games be able to be ported to PCs, they would want to offer fairly low minimum specs. Therefore, those specs would be weaker than the PS5. They're not gonna set like a 2070 or 2080 as the required spec GPU, at least not anytime soon. Most PC users do not have said cards. Its a valid concern because min spec for dev's matter. Its perfectly reasonable to want 1st party PS5 games to be able to be made with the PS5 spec as min spec. And the PS5 is different than PS4. PS4 had a basic cheap HDD. The PS5 does not, its legit custom and very fast. Its not like the PS5 just has a basic SATA SSD.

Most of us would not care if games are ported to PC just so long as it doesn't lower the base spec for dev. Issue is, with the PS5's specs vs mainstream PCs right now, that lowering would occur. Mostly due to I/O. Sony are not gonna require a Gen4 SSD for any PC ports in 2022-23. Highly unlikely. Maybe they'd require a SATA SSD, sure.

Will this change in Sony's business strategy limit or hold back PS5 1st party games? Hard to say yet. No one really knows what Sony are planning for PS5 games long term, will they end up on PC shortly after, etc. All of them? Or just some. Will they hold back dev around PS5 I/O to make PC ports easier and faster? Who knows yet. Time will tell.

But I understand his concerns.

Look at what Naughty Dog's devs could do going from PS3 to PS4. This is with old 2013 hardware. It shouldn't be possible, but they pulled it off.

Spoiler

Same idea here with Rockstar. Look at RDR1 vs RDR2 with John. Its a huge leap. Imagine what a RDR3 could look like.

Spoiler

Now its PS5. Imagine what they'll be to create in like 2025. Its exciting. We don't want to see on PS5 just Uncharted 4 Nate, but now rendered in 4K (that's just a port.) We want that next gen leap. Nobody would've wanted Uncharted 4 on PS4 to just be PS3 Nate but at 1080p, instead of 720p. We don't just want John from RDR2 running at a higher res. We want to see that same leap from PS4 to PS5 that we saw from PS3 to PS4.

Again, it might all work out fine. Can't say yet because Sony's 1st party dev future is unclear rn, but time will tell.

 

[Kenpachii]

Will be interesting to see how much it sells on PC. I doubt the market is big for those titles but hey who knows right.

 

[Bryank75]

No as the market aint there. They don't do the PS5 type gaming devices.
Can't blame Sony that they prefer casual games like Animal Crossings and Ring Fit Adventure.

10 million sales is a lot to concede just like that....

I mean, why stop there?

 

[Bryank75]

Will be interesting to see how much it sells on PC. I doubt the market is big for those titles but hey who knows right.

Yeah, 700K sales of Horizon is shit... I don't care what way Jim 'bullshitter' Ryan wants to spin it....

Less than a million sales in a year is a complete waste of time.

 

[Clear]

Will be interesting to see how much it sells on PC. I doubt the market is big for those titles but hey who knows right.

These are primarily older games that have basically been resold to saturation point. They have had most of their juice squeezed out and are now being put on PC to extend brand awareness and bolster interest in the next franchise entry that will no doubt be PS exclusive.

Most game sales are massively front-loaded in terms of revenue potential. Sales may continue to ramp, but typically this is through discounting or incorporation into a service offering which yields a much lower return per unit.

Bottom line is that a year out from launch, the value of exclusivity in 99% of cases is miniscule. Porting to PC is just easy money.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Its not about resolution or frame rates. Its about legitimate generational leaps in the art form.

I'm telling you the legitimate leap is RT. Period. There is no other tricks in rasterization other than proper hair shading, volume clouds (which FS2020 does), and streaming high res photogrammetry textures. Everything else requires too much bandwidth to implement. I know pretty much every goal that realtime rendering is trying to reach being in film for so many years. Trust me when I tell you there just isn't enough bandwidth in these GPUs to want gameplay to look like the cinematics in the videogames. We just aren't there yet.

None of us haven't really seen a RTX 2080 running games built around a 2080 as min spec yet. What we've seen a 2080 do so far is run games built around PS4 spec, just running at higher settings, res, fps, etc. But it could do much more. Sure Red Dead Redemption 2 looks great on a 2080, but it had to be able to run on much weaker specs and consoles. If it did not, it could have looker much better (because we know Rockstar has the time & budget.)

That's the big flaw in you guys' thinking.

Here are bits of a conversation I had today with one of my friends that works for a Microsoft owned company:

"well, that's what most people do here..."

"console devkit are not enough for everyone so that's need to be done on PC first"

"during development, we will decide a targeting platform and what PC spec similar to that platform"

"it's usually aiming to a higher spec and later down grade for lower spec console if we have the time"

I won't give the programmer or the company, so please don't ask..

As you can see here, their workflow is completely counter to what you guys think. And that's just one example. CDPR did another example of targeting high-end PC hardware in Cyberpunk.. we all know how that worked out for last-gen consoles..

I think his concern is that if Sony is going to make their PS5 games be able to be ported to PCs, they would want to offer fairly low minimum specs. Therefore, those specs would be weaker than the PS5. They're not gonna set like a 2070 or 2080 as the required spec GPU, at least not anytime soon. Most PC users do not have said cards. Its a valid concern because min spec for dev's matter. Its perfectly reasonable to want 1st party PS5 games to be able to be made with the PS5 spec as min spec. And the PS5 is different than PS4. PS4 had a basic cheap HDD. The PS5 does not, its legit custom and very fast. Its not like the PS5 just has a basic SATA SSD.

I very seriously doubt that even with the PS5s fast I/O, it can't handle the rendering that needs to be computed from those large datasets in a full-on game. A perfect example of this is FS2020 on the RTX 3090. The GPU can't handle that kind of data with the extreme high levels of content that it's streaming and the photogrammetry terrain with true 3D volume clouds - although it could probably be improved with using DX12. 3090 also can't handle Cyberpunk full on RT graphics settings without DLSS. The bandwidth constraints are real. There is no working around it no matter if you code straight to the metal. Every Sony warrior on this forum ignores that simple fact.

Look at what Naughty Dog's devs could do going from PS3 to PS4. This is with old 2013 hardware. It shouldn't be possible, but they pulled it off.

Spoiler

Same idea here with Rockstar. Look at RDR1 vs RDR2 with John. Its a huge leap. Imagine what a RDR3 could look like.

Spoiler

Now its PS5. Imagine what they'll be to create in like 2025. Its exciting. We don't want to see on PS5 just Uncharted 4 Nate, but now rendered in 4K (that's just a port.) We want that next gen leap. Nobody would've wanted Uncharted 4 on PS4 to just be PS3 Nate but at 1080p, instead of 720p. We don't just want John from RDR2 running at a higher res. We want to see that same leap from PS4 to PS5 that we saw from PS3 to PS4.

Again, it might all work out fine. Can't say yet because Sony's 1st party dev future is unclear rn, but time will tell.

All of these shots are with the introduction of PBR shaders. It came to the PC first then to the consoles. The next-gen feature you guys are looking for is ray-tracing. And it will take a couple generations to fully utilize that since it's the holy grail of rendering. So all I can recommend is stop looking for big leaps every generation. Look at the top-tier PC hardware and find out where graphics are going. Don't look to consoles as they are definitely the lower common denominator.

 

[Kenpachii]

These are primarily older games that have basically been resold to saturation point. They have had most of their juice squeezed out and are now being put on PC to extend brand awareness and bolster interest in the next franchise entry that will no doubt be PS exclusive.

Most game sales are massively front-loaded in terms of revenue potential. Sales may continue to ramp, but typically this is through discounting or incorporation into a service offering which yields a much lower return per unit.

Bottom line is that a year out from launch, the value of exclusivity in 99% of cases is miniscule. Porting to PC is just easy money.

I could also see it damage there day one sales really, why would a PC gamer invest into there echo system and buy it day one when they can play it on there PC for cheaper and the complete edition a year later. It probably puts a lot of people on hold for buying the game. But then like you said it could also advertise the games to a audience that never batted a eye for it.

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm telling you the legitimate leap is RT. Period. There is no other tricks in rasterization other than proper hair shading, volume clouds (which FS2020 does), and streaming high res photogrammetry textures. Everything else requires too much bandwidth to implement. I know pretty much every goal that realtime rendering is trying to reach being in film for so many years. Trust me when I tell you there just isn't enough bandwidth in these GPUs to want gameplay to look like the cinematics in the videogames. We just aren't there yet.



That's the big flaw in you guys' thinking.

Here are bits of a conversation I had today with one of my friends that works for a Microsoft owned company:

"well, that's what most people do here..."

"console devkit are not enough for everyone so that's need to be done on PC first"

"during development, we will decide a targeting platform and what PC spec similar to that platform"

"it's usually aiming to a higher spec and later down grade for lower spec console if we have the time"

I won't give the programmer or the company, so please don't ask..

As you can see here, their workflow is completely counter to what you guys think. And that's just one example.




I very seriously doubt that even with the PS5s fast I/O, it can't handle the rendering that needs to be computed from those large datasets in a full-on game. A perfect example of this is FS2020 on the RTX 3090. The GPU can't handle that kind of data with the extreme high levels of content that it's streaming and the photogrammetry terrain with true 3D volume clouds - although it could probably be improved with using DX12. 3090 also can't handle Cyberpunk full on RT graphics settings without DLSS. The bandwidth constraints are real. There is no working around it no matter if you code straight to the metal. Every Sony warrior on this forum ignores that simple fact.


All of these shots are with the introduction of PBR shaders. It came to the PC first then to the consoles. The next-gen feature you guys are looking for is ray-tracing. And it will take a couple generations to fully utilize that since it's the holy grail of rendering. So all I can recommend is stop looking for big leaps every generation. Look at the top-tier PC hardware and find out where graphics are going. Don't look to consoles as they are definitely the lower common denominator.

Alright well time will tell.

To put it another way, I myself (and I bet many other console only PlayStation users) would say this:

If Jim Ryan and Herman Hulst come out and say "We promise we will always use the PS5's hardware to its fullest potential, we will never hold back a developer just to make a PC port easier" ...

... then I as a PS5 buyer don't care if PC users get to play Sony games. No worries. I don't care if a PC user gets to play the next Naughty Dog game. I just want Naughty Dog to be able to deliver the same impressive technical achievements every game. Their games are polished and beautiful. It's reasonable to worry if that would continue if they had to add PC to dev. Console war BS aside, more people enjoying great games made by hardworking devs is good.

The core idea is console users just want their machines to be used to their fullest potential, and also not get buggy broken multiplatform releases (like CyberPunk on PS4 / XOne) from 1st party devs. (And ya, CP2077 was sent out before it was ready. Still tho.)

Sony and Nintendo studios are really the only devs who get to just focus on 1 platform. Even Xbox has to put every game on PC now. The fear is Sony would become effectively just another multiplatform pub, like Xbox are. And we've seen some very big multiplatform games have some issues at launch on some platforms, like CyberPunk on console, RDR2 on PC, also HZD on PC, etc.

I'll be VERY curious to see what Xbox set the I/O minimum spec on PC for their next gen only games.

Like if the new Forza Motorsport is Series X/S and PC only, what do you think they will require for min spec on PC? A SATA SSD? Or will they really require a Gen3/4 NVMe SSD?

 

[CityHunter1981]

I think Sony will continue only to release older games on PC, when the game doesn't sell on console anymore. It's a good idea at that point to release it on PC to have some additional income without the risk of selling less consoles.

 

[sunnysideup]

This frame of mind is a fallacy.

There isn't a single game on the PS4 platform that did anything special hardware-wise that a PC graphics card couldn't do. This type of thinking is completely pre-ps4 line of thinking when custom hardware was completely unorthodox. The PC graphics cards and games that had graphics features were always superior to the console hardware post PS3. Part of this is because they are tied to AMD - which is significantly behind the curveball on graphics features and tech. Secondly, it's the fact that the consoles get the low-mid range GPU in power.

The I/O is brand new this generation. And to speak to that, there hasn't been a single exclusive game that has come out that utiltilizes the I/O further than faster loading times. And that's not even significant over the conventional SSD on a PC. The UE5 demo also demonstrated that the bandwidth requirements for that demo was well within what is available now on the PC. Once DirectStorage comes into play, there will be no "superior" I/O for the consoles. It will already be out before the first game even uses assets the way that UE5 demo did.

Simply put, the consoles will always be the low common denominator in game development targets - not the GPUs made for PCs.

Yet the high end bespoke games for console often looks as good or better than anything on pc. On a toaster level hardware.

And that is what is so appealing with console gaming. Its not that these games would not look even better on a pc. Its the fact that a 6 year old console can hold its own against hardware that is significantly more powerful.

This will not be the case if they are developed as multiplatform games.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yet the high end bespoke games for console often looks as good or better than anything on pc. On a toaster level hardware.

We've gone around the merry-go-around with this type of argument for the longest time. If an exclusive looks good to you because of the way they implemented a game that's A-OK but it's clearly not because of the tech they used as the tech was already out and test run on the PC long before it (like PBR shaders). The graphics algorithms that come in papers are first made from the film companies. Then a developer doing R&D like Nvidia/AMD or some college implements the features in hardware using a GPU on a PC machine. It then propagates out to the various studios that play with the algorithm and adopt it to their games. You might find some studio use some clever tricks to implement a feature that only works on a console but it's not something that a PC can't do. That's the way it's always been.

What I'm saying is it's purely subjective opinion whether an exclusive looks the best over any 3rd party developer game and not because the hardware in the console allows it to look better. We already know this is a fallacy based on the fact that if that exclusive comes out on the PC, the PC will run that exclusive better and prettier than the console hardware and not because the developer would short-hand the console implementation due to the PC being inferior - hence why this thread has the backlash it has.

 

[turtlepowa]

I think Sony will continue only to release older games on PC, when the game doesn't sell on console anymore. It's a good idea at that point to release it on PC to have some additional income without the risk of selling less consoles.

But the "risc" is still there, because people know they only have to wait some time. And Sony makes 90% singlplayer games, so nothing to miss if you play those later.

 

[Keihart]

Jim Ryan impersonation

 

[Nickolaidas]

Nope. They will be ported too - coming from an ex-ND employee that I am friends with.

Spider-Man coming to PC?

 

[Rathalos]

Perfect timing, I'm building a new PC on Tuesday.