sendit
Banned
Disagree. My 3090 would curb stomp the PS5's performance. Once again PC Master race wins. /s
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NXG - HZD 60fps Patch
- Thread starter N1tr0sOx1d3
- Start date
Disagree. My 3090 would curb stomp the PS5's performance. Once again PC Master race wins. /s
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Alex has already disputed the video pretty much on twitter after the legend that is that playstation fanboy Joe something made some crazy tweet saying ps5 was better than pc.
Nxgamer surely must have known what it would do posting this type of content and deffo deserves some flack for it.
If you know anything about pc gaming it's that first gen ryzen just wasn't competitive for gaming, something Zen 2 fixed massively. The fact that his pc is that old and he is legit using it for this comparison is embarrassing for himself. I would love to hear what inspired him to do the video, and if it's anything but trying to make the ps5 look better than pc... I would say he needs to invest in a better more up to date pc if he expects to be able to compare this tech seriously.
It's like some random anybody influencer pulling our some 3 to 5 year old pc out of his bedroom and comparing it to his new shiny ps5 that he got for free from Sony.......because let's not forget that this guy got the full shebang from Sony...... interesting that.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
He used a 3 year old cpu and gpu. Are you saying the ps5 is only comparable to an amd ryzen 2000 series cpu?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
This game looks noticeably worse now. Lots of shimmering like the resolution was downgraded. It looks like it's running in 1080p mode from the PS4 Pro version rather than resolution mode.
Md Ray
Member
On PS5?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Yeah
Md Ray
Member
Yep, glad I'm not the only one to notice that. I just fired it up on PC and saw a ton of shimmering even at native 4K. The game hasn't aged well image quality-wise compared to say Uncharted 4.
Playing this game for the first time and thus game looks incredible. The last game I played was Spiderman Remastered (which also another game I played for the first time) in RT performance mode. Maybe technically Spiderman is better, but for me personally Horizon just looks so much more better.
So glad I have been LTTP with s ton of PS4 games, this is my 3rd 60fps LTTP game back to back from God of War to Spiderman to this all in 60fps. I'm glad I had a big break from videogames for a chunk of the PS4 gen it has paid off well for me.
So glad I have been LTTP with s ton of PS4 games, this is my 3rd 60fps LTTP game back to back from God of War to Spiderman to this all in 60fps. I'm glad I had a big break from videogames for a chunk of the PS4 gen it has paid off well for me.
Shmunter
Member
Suffice it to say, Pc I/o is a strange thing.
My boy is now a pc gamer with a i7/2070 combo. He enjoys it because many of his friends play as well, mods etc. While the game runs at high framerate, he was stunned at the hitches Fortnite has during e.g. the lobby sequence as other players load in. Nvme drive and all. Console never misses a beat here.
Witnesses it myself, all his friends with various specs get it also so it's not uncommon.
My boy is now a pc gamer with a i7/2070 combo. He enjoys it because many of his friends play as well, mods etc. While the game runs at high framerate, he was stunned at the hitches Fortnite has during e.g. the lobby sequence as other players load in. Nvme drive and all. Console never misses a beat here.
Witnesses it myself, all his friends with various specs get it also so it's not uncommon.
MrFunSocks
Banned
There are lots of TVs, especially OLEDs, that have VRR too.
PC Gamers don't care about frame rate fluctuations because anyone that considers themselves a "pc gamer" would own a Gsync/freesync monitor. They basically don't even cost more than a normal monitor.
MrFunSocks
Banned
His whole channel is and always has been trying to make Sony consoles look good. Like just look at his list of videos on his channel - it's just all PS5 videos, and PS4 videos before that. Zero Xbox specific content.
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Digital Foundry might as well change their channel name to Microsoft Xbox Entertainment if you believe that then.
MightySquirrel
Banned
Lets make OP even funnier, why not:
3liteDragon
Member
Link to the video.
His "aLLeGiAnGE", lol.
(He reviewed The Medium in February when it was only on Series X|S and PC at launch)
wut???
His first podcast with MLiD, he explains he's been a senior developer and programmer for years now but on the commercial side, he works for a multinational tech company. He does a lot of dev work in terms of data centers migration, CRM software development, ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning software), database management and etc. And yet he's much more knowledgeable with tech in video games compared to any of the DF members (not trying dissing them here, they do good work imo analyzing footage and frame counts but don't possess any technical knowledge when it comes to game development, and again, I don't mean any disrespect to them by saying that, just pointing it out).
(timestamped, 14:19-20:40, NX Gamer's History, Working in Big Tech Companies)
He's made much more informative hardware and game development analysis videos on both consoles which I highly doubt you bothered watching anyway.
Next Generation Consoles: The GPU and what we can expect? | Let's Talk [https://youtu.be/nu9Qh6GbMgI]
Next Generation Consoles: The SSD Leap is the biggest? | Let's Talk [https://youtu.be/nUQsTFbXnnk]
Next Generation Development and Details - What Lies ahead? | Let's Talk [https://youtu.be/6lCzutYI3iA]
First it was the dumb posts in the PS5 exhaust temps thread and now this shit, and you're complaining about your posts being deleted & receiving ban warnings...
MrFunSocks
Banned
Being a software dev on the commercial side is irrelevant. I myself have almost 20 years experience as a software dev in multinational billion dollar companies. Currently employed at one. Doesn't mean I pretend to know about the Xbox series Xs ray tracing APIs being unfinished like he did.
oh you are one of the people that can't understand that hotter exhaust does not equal better cooling lol. Enough said. To the ignore list you go. Have fun.
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Rea
Member
Shimmering is not much related to low resolution. It is more likely due to poor anti aliasing.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Sure it does…
kyliethicc
Member
Its checkerboard 2160p on PS5. (The resolution mode from PS4 Pro.)
And the performance mode on PS4 Pro is actually 1368p, not 1080p.
assurdum
Banned
The ps5 in BC emulate the PS4 CPU ...
assurdum
Banned
Lol. That's the CBR solution of Guerrilla. Nothing is changed. People notice it just now. CBR in theory works better with higher Fps how can be worse at the same resolution?
Low Moral Fibre
Member
I think most people are being very civil. If this was a DF video where PS5 got even a little flack or a wild conclusion was jumped to it would be 200 pages now with a million personal insults towards Alex or Tom.
It's clear it's his CPU with single core performance of maybe a 2013 to 2015 Intel CPU that is causing drops not his 2070.
I have to go to 4k native before I can get the bridge section to drop to the same level as in his video and even then its only 0.1% lows and it still doesn't drop as low as 46 FPS as in his video - I must have a very strong 2070S:
And here is 1577p which is still more pixels than the PS5:
Should my conclusion be that it's the unified architecture of the PS5 that is holding it back? No, this game is a poor port on PC and a BC game on PS5 so any conclusions you jump to are immediately stupid.
The only conclusion I can come to is that I have a similar GPU to him but a much better CPU and my performance is miles better so clearly this game is CPU bound at higher framerates.
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GymWolf
Member
I think non-gsync monitor are still the most common by far, gsync is still kinda of a novelty, but i don't really follow the monitor market so maybe i'm wrong.
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GymWolf
Member
So we are saying the same thing basically, pc players hate framerate flactuations so much that they go out of their way to buy gsync monitors, a vrr oled tv or just play with settings like me (until i can get an oled with vrr myself.) to eliminate the problem.
Neat.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
The fuck am I reading?
Is this one of those "youre an IT guy you know everything about computers"
John also has a tech degree and was a software engineer and has been working in IT pretty much as long as NXG second they have deep dive talks with actual game and engine developers....the chances of someone guessing better than people who got knowledge from the horses mouth is very slim.
Im not dissing NXG im sure he knows quite alot about game development and has had a few chats with people.
But the DF guys are basically industry standard now and are constantly improving their knowledge with direct interviews and interactions with actual game developers and hardware developers.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I dont think you can even buy a none Adaptive Sync monitor anymore?
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Looks like DF members are actually starting to get wind of this
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Md Ray
Member
The frame-rate dips he saw were very much likely due to shader caching, IMO. Did a fresh install on my 3070/3700X rig after watching NXG's vid, waited for it to complete optimizing shaders, and then jumped into the gameplay at a very conservative 1440p, DF optimized (med-high) settings with a 60fps cap. The result?I think most people are being very civil. If this was a DF video where PS5 got even a little flack or a wild conclusion was jumped to it would be 200 pages now with a million personal insults towards Alex or Tom.
It is clear it's his CPU with single core performance of maybe a 2013 to 2015 Intel CPU that are causing drops not his 2070.
I have to go to 4k native before I can get the bridge section to drop to the same level as in his video and even then its only 0.1% lows and it still doesn't drop as low as 46 FPS as in his video - I must have a very strong 2070S:
And here is 1577p which is still more pixels than the PS5:
Should my conclusion be that it's the unified architecture of the PS5 that is holding it back? No, this game is a poor port on PC and a BC game on PS5 so any conclusions you jump to are immediately stupid.
The only conclusion I can come to is that I have a similar GPU to him but a much better CPU and my performance is miles better so clearly this game is CPU bound at higher framerates.
Well, see it for yourself:
Oh, before that, here's a quick screenshot of the HW resource monitor to show idle CPU/RAM/GPU util. before booting up the game (0 background apps running except for OS-related tasks):
Here:
It stutters so much initially on the first run to the point it feels unplayable for a moment, but after a while, the perf gets stable when you go into the same location where it stuttered heavily before, there are still one-off stutters here and there but nothing major. So this has got to be shader caching related problem and likely what we see in NX's vid as well, nothing to do with his HW of choice, IMO.
Mind you, the CPU I'm using is slightly faster than PS5's and what Michael has used in his vid and the GPU is also quite a bit more powerful + I'm putting a lot less rendering load on it, yet I see some nasty hitches, frametime spikes, something that not even PS4 suffers from. The PC version definitely has issues and isn't as stable as the console versions as he concluded at the end.
Here's HZD's CPU cores utilization if anyone's curious:
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Fess
Member
He has said that he has a preference, and we all do no matter if we own everything or not, it's no big deal imo, you have to look past that.
DF has a preference for Xbox, or at least Alex and Tom. I think John prefer PS. Not sure about Rich, I think he's fairly unbiased but likes the clicks lol
And Gamer Nexus obviously prefer PC.
Unbiased analysis are rare but all of us should be able to make up our minds from the data all of them are presenting, you have to mix and match. Usually when they start highlighting differences at 400% zoom or weird things happening in very specific situations you can just ignore them. Same goes if there is like 1 fps difference or 200p difference. Nobody could spot that without an analysis tool.
martino
Member
The frame-rate dips he saw were very much likely due to shader caching, IMO. Did a fresh install on my 3070/3700X rig after watching NXG's vid, waited for it to complete optimizing shaders, and then jumped into the gameplay at a very conservative 1440p, DF optimized (med-high) settings with a 60fps cap. The result?
Well, see it for yourself:
Oh, before that, here's a quick screenshot of the HW resource monitor to show idle CPU/RAM/GPU util. before booting up the game (0 background apps running except for OS-related tasks):
Here:
It stutters so much initially on the first run to the point it feels unplayable for a moment, but after a while, the perf gets stable when you go into the same location where it stuttered heavily before, there are still one-off stutters here and there but nothing major. So this has got to be shader caching related problem and likely what we see in NX's vid as well, nothing to do with his HW of choice, IMO.
Mind you, the CPU I'm using is slightly faster than PS5's and what Michael has used in his vid and the GPU is also quite a bit more powerful + I'm putting a lot less rendering load on it, yet I see some nasty hitches, frametime spikes, something that not even PS4 suffers from. The PC version definitely has issues and isn't as stable as the console versions as he concluded at the end.
Here's HZD's CPU cores utilization if anyone's curious:
it's clearly a port problem and the choice of doing it this way was poor.
sadly numerous games rely on this (on top of my head another big one is borderlands 3)
i was even not able to run those 2 games initially because i disabled virtual memory on my system...so it seems to obligatory use hdd/ssd for it.
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GymWolf
Member
I sincerely doubt that, there are infinite brands of monitors out there and i doubt that every single brand is now with gsync included.
But who knows, i absolutely hate playing on a monitor so i don't really follow the market flow.
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NXGamer
Member
Correct, it was not.… and? I am not sure what is your point? You are free to make your own "is there a PC faster than a PS5 and can I buy it now?" (Hint: yes) video on YouTube, but I do not think it wasNXGamer 's point.
I can see some in this thread are taking this (again) into a platform war. Now I did explain all this in the video AND my full PC review last year, but I want to just validate here so any who want to read and discuss can know the facts and how I presented AND my take away from those calling "Foul" in this thread.
So, for those saying this is wrong (?) I should not have done or should change the below:-
1) Cannot use a PC spec of a RTX2070 OC with an OC 2700x as this is not "fair" or correct even though it represents a spec that is higher than 85% of the Steam PC population (So way more than most), Why?
2) I cannot compare Checkboard to Native PC even though actual Pixel count is lower on PC without the CB even taken into account?
3) I cannot test the effects as even though this game has a PS4 setting it still cannot be used for?
From my aims and my description this video and test was
1) To show the benefits of developing a game around a specific piece of hardware/API/Construction
2) What that CAN mean in the PC space and the effort to address that
3) How well the PS5 runs BC compared to other titles and how the old PS4 and Pro design has been factored into it.
4) What this could mean once the team utilise the PS5 native benefits in new games such as HZD
5) A look ahead to what Death Stranding DC could offer in terms of a more involved PS5 port and update.
Let's discuss from this please.
Thanks
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NXGamer
Member
We chatted in DM, and yet here you are blocking people with discussion, EliteDragon discussed and presented facts to you and you just fingers in ear and block him, very poor show man, very poor.
martino
Member
1) is as always is the worst argument ps5 is 2-3% of console population if we go there....and those 15% pc population is also growing and for now bigger than it. But worst of all it's an irrelevant metric on the actual performance subject.
It's sad to see this kind of fallacious move when the topic should be about to comparing performance on samey hardware, no ?
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MrFunSocks
Banned
You don't have to "go out of your way" to get a VRR monitor. Buy any new monitor that's not a budget 60hz 1080p and it'll likely have freesync support. Buy any of the new OLEDs or big brand other than Sony TV'S and it'll have VRR.
I've got a VRR ultrawide monitor at work where I don't even play games.
PC gamers like the fact that the framerate is unlocked and you can tinker to extract every last drop of performance with VRR. It's not a crutch like you think it is, it's a performance enhancer.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
The frame-rate dips he saw were very much likely due to shader caching, IMO. Did a fresh install on my 3070/3700X rig after watching NXG's vid, waited for it to complete optimizing shaders, and then jumped into the gameplay at a very conservative 1440p, DF optimized (med-high) settings with a 60fps cap. The result?
Well, see it for yourself:
Oh, before that, here's a quick screenshot of the HW resource monitor to show idle CPU/RAM/GPU util. before booting up the game (0 background apps running except for OS-related tasks):
Here:
It stutters so much initially on the first run to the point it feels unplayable for a moment, but after a while, the perf gets stable when you go into the same location where it stuttered heavily before, there are still one-off stutters here and there but nothing major. So this has got to be shader caching related problem and likely what we see in NX's vid as well, nothing to do with his HW of choice, IMO.
Mind you, the CPU I'm using is slightly faster than PS5's and what Michael has used in his vid and the GPU is also quite a bit more powerful + I'm putting a lot less rendering load on it, yet I see some nasty hitches, frametime spikes, something that not even PS4 suffers from. The PC version definitely has issues and isn't as stable as the console versions as he concluded at the end.
Here's HZD's CPU cores utilization if anyone's curious:
Ah so similar to fortnite where the first round or 2 gets massive stutters but it clears up after your go thru it a few times.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I think you would have to go out of your way to find a non Adaptive sync monitor these days.
Like literally hunting a monitor from 2014 or something.
This is the cheapest monitor I could find from a 2 second google search and even it has freesync.
Its not even 1080p.
Obviously i dont mean literally every monitor has adaptive sync, but i mean theres a 99% chance the monitor you buy today if its widescreen it likely has adaptive sync.
GymWolf
Member
Edit: it seems like gsync monitor are more mainstream than what i thought, not sure about vrr oled tho.
But listen, we are discussing about nothing really here, i do think that serious pc gamers are more disturbed by uneven framerate compared to console players, do you think that i'm wrong about this simple concept?!
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GymWolf
Member
Well shit, i really didn't thought that this tech was already so mainstream.I think you would have to go out of your way to find a non Adaptive sync monitor these days.
Like literally hunting a monitor from 2014 or something.
This is the cheapest monitor I could find from a 2 second google search and even it has freesync.
Its not even 1080p.
Obviously i dont mean literally every monitor has adaptive sync, but i mean theres a 99% chance the monitor you buy today if its widescreen it likely has adaptive sync.
I hate the fact that i hate playing on a monitor, gsync must be a fucking dream to use, you don't even need to play with the game settings that much to achieve smooth framerate (at least this is what people say).
What are the best cheap\middle brands if i wanna spend around 200\250 dollars for a 1440p 24\27 inches monitor?!
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assurdum
Banned
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
I found it hard to find a good 24" 1440p and ended with a gigabyte m27q which I'm really enjoying. It's quite good for the price as well. I think AOC makes some very good budget monitors with freesync. Harder to find a budget one with gsync
MasterCornholio
Member
I really did tell him multiple times that he really needs to think it over before posts. Hopefully he understands why he needs to do that by now. I have him on ignore but I still notice his impact.
Arioco
Member
In fact Gamer Nexus made a video on how a GTX 1060 can crush a PS5 (which is just ridiculous, which I know too well since I have both a 1060 and a PS5) and people didn't lose their minds like they are doing know over this new Horizon analysis.
Not joking. A fucking 1060!
Read the comments and you'll see people joking about PS5 Pro targeting a GTX 1070.To top it all I suspect he's running DMCV on PS5 at 4K whereas on the 1060 the game is running at 1080p, but hey, PC Master Race didn't seem to care, they to busy bitching about Michael over this analysis.
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martino
Member
GHG
Member
Let me clear one thing up. With the exception of
Kenpachii
most of these guys are not PC gamers.Take from that what you will.
I think you would have to go out of your way to find a non Adaptive sync monitor these days.
Like literally hunting a monitor from 2014 or something.
This is the cheapest monitor I could find from a 2 second google search and even it has freesync.
Its not even 1080p.
Obviously i dont mean literally every monitor has adaptive sync, but i mean theres a 99% chance the monitor you buy today if its widescreen it likely has adaptive sync.
You don't have to go out of your way. Most monitors sold are built with the purpose of office use in mind. BenQ, Dell, Lenovo etc all sell monitors without freesync support. To get a monitor that also had gsync you need to be shopping in the category of monitors that are specifically built for gaming purposes.
Unless you are a gamer and know what you're looking for you can easily end up with a monitor without freesync support. These are the top selling monitors in my region on amazon:
amazon.ae Best Sellers: The best items in Computer Monitors based on Amazon customer purchases
amazon.ae Best Sellers: The best items in Computer Monitors based on Amazon customer purchases
www.amazon.ae
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Whelp, now its confirmed, ps5 is better than PC. Hopefully we will see a pc2 soon that can match the hardware.
I mean, obviously, because like ps5 pc seemed to be fixed hardware given how we talk about it here.
Very poor choice of words around these parts.
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NXGamer
Member
No, it is the best PC I have access to (I am independent and do not get free hardware) but this does not negate the test OR the results.
Covering more than 85% of the PC space is a better example of the Console versus PC conversation though. I would love, and have been trying, to get higher end hardware to get an even better coverage than I have, it continues.
However, the same argument you are making can be levied at the 1% that have a 3090 - I9/Threadripper PC and then say PC beats console, I believe this test is more reflective of the reality.
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