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NXG - HZD 60fps Patch

Nobody cares if you test on a outdated system that's not representative of the market. U can test whatever u like on whatever u want if you clearly state next towards it in a comparison that u are using outdated hardware and experiences can verify with more modern architectures where this is no longer a issue.

U don't do that instead u dig yourself in and start to come with all kinds of bullshit arguments and make a console warrior video about best played on PS5, while the game is leagues ahead on PC with higher end hardware. If u don't believe so go google top end hardware and horizon and u will see exactly what i mean.

Then u start to dig yourself into a corner when called out and come with a shit argument because u have no argument about "majority of the market" which makes absolute zero sense. Because the majority of the console market isn't having PS5's for its breakfast also.

Hell there are probably more 3080+ Ampere cards in the wild + amd ryzens 5000 series then PS5's sold entirely in comparison. So that argument also falls flat on there face.

But then if you even look further then that. is that if you actually look at the majority of the market.

U have
:

1) no clue what cpu they have to start with as steam doesn't say anything about architectures, they just say 4 cores / 6 cores / 8 cores ( far more then ps5's sold by the way ) and majority of them are intel. a 6 core of intel = dwarfs your cpu big time as its a minimum of 8700k at minimum in single core performance and even budget 4 cores already steamrol a 2700 for a while now in 95% of the games. Hell as its intel most of those 4 core chips steamrol a 2700 and we are talking here entirely in far far far more hardware then PS5's ever sold on top of it.

2) those people will never ever go over 1080p, which means far less taxation on there hardware which makes benching at higher resolutions completely pointless, exactly what people also stated with your higher resolutions on a budget card. 4k is very much a pipedream and 1440p is very much a niche resolution PC, 1080p is still the main focus here.

3) they will never use a mixture of PS5 settings, they will use whatever settings give them managable performance, as they give zero fucks about consoles and there settings to to start with. if they did they would have gotten a console at this point

4) only 1 million copy's i think are sold or even less of the game on PC ( maybe more i wouldn't know ) on a userbase that's 120m+ active montly gamers and 1,3b accounts which survey does take into account ( maybe not all ) even if the absolute worst case scenario, only 1,2% of the market is actually playing the game ( at best not even 0,1% at worst ). Compare that towards hardware and u will see a single 3070 card already outperforms that.

Then back to consoles.

If you compare the PS5 market vs the console market and then compare it towards PC market and its hardware, u will soon rather then later realize that the PS5 = infact a premium product for enthusiasts the same as a ton of hardware is on PC right now but will become the standard when time moves on, this also counts for PS5 so comparing it to potato hardware is useless.

Affording hardware:

If you can't afford hardware, nobody blames you for that. We all been there and everybody does on PC whatever they can.

But don't start to make statements as u do in your video that ps5 version si the best version u can play and that includes PC that simple is extremely ignorant and frankly if yhou would have done some googling you would have seen that its nowhere near true at all and sounds incredilbe ignoratnt ot he point of just console warrior behavior. Its just beyond idiotic to mention stuff like this. It kinda makes the entire video idiotic to its core.

Because simple youtube googling and u would see what is possible on PC.



Technical conclusions are also wrong:

Pci-e 4 needed to get smooth frame rate because of bottlenecks. yet pci-e 3.0 isn't getting bottlenecked for shit by this game its not even using a fraction of its bandwidth. its shit coding that's wrong with this game back in the day, and with recent patches they seemed to fixed it and push far beyond what consoles are capable, the reason u see so much issue's is your cpu situation.



Your setup makes no sense and your attitude makes it even worse.

Its your typical build that's made by somebody that doesn't know much about PC hardware and it shows.

As many people already pointed out towards you including me over several video's is your attitude of how you present video's with specifically the PC department, u talk about PC as a unity and if your PC doesn't run it, then that's representative for the entire market as u do at the 12 mark u do this more in other videos. Now this could be true if you actually had hardware to backup your statement like for example this:

A guy with a 3090 and a 5950x not getting good performance and talks for the entire market then yes we can all agree with his take. A guy with a potato PC with mix matches hardware drawing the same conclusion over the entire market is simple ignorant and honestly when that person pretents to be a expert and places himself as such it seems platent trolling, the same reason why the PS5 refresh guy gets massive shit on the internet. U are doing the same thing here.

As i said before and many others.

2700 ryzen isn't representative for the market in any way, and it was never a good gaming CPU even when it launched. its a work CPU. U clinging on it while ~8 year old intel cpu's perform about the same and still clinge towards the idea that somehow any pc developer will optimize for it even while AMD see's it as a product is just you being special.

2070 RTX was never a high resolution card, it can do 1440p with trade offs don't get me wrong, but its a in between 1080-1080ti GTX card in 2022 almost, that's what 5 years old if not 6 years old on rastarisation. I have no clue who adviced you to buy a 2070 to start with, it was never a good card. not for its time period, not now. Its borderline budget i would say in current times.

Anyway lets quit rambling as everybody already pointed it out to you so many times, yet u keep sticking your head in the sand.

Conclusion:

Because i already pointed out to you many times how idiotic your benchmarks are that involve your PC setup and u refuse to move forwards or simple state the obvious to eliminate all the critique in your videos which is easily done as i explained before.

I gave you enough time to improve or at least become reasonable in your video's, because honestly the real issue is not your video is you drawing conclusions in that video that are just laughable wrong not even the material i would say that much and even getting worse with this video and your 12 minute conclusion.

At this point i don't think this guy is improving ever, its clear he lacks the knowledge. Makes up arguments to try to validate his idiotic already lost statements to the point i would just call him either a troll or having a agenda himself aka console warrior,

But then again i am not shocked, tech youtubers in general aren't the brightest these days and i love to shit on them because of that.

His main mistake he ever made was pushing his content on a website i am part off, i like to call these clowns out all day long.

Someone can't really accept a different opinion than yours and go on, it seems.
 
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Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg
 
Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg
1620p should be a good resolution to compared against PS5 4K CBR (which is around 1530p but CBR rendering is far from being free).
 
Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg
Let's compare to 4k ultimate quality. 3700x - 3080. 80avg. Funny enough, same on cpu and gpu so that CPU is a minimum for 3080 to not bottleneck it
For an "ultimate" quality, the pop up lod and shadows lod look terrible. The meridian flyby looks like shit

cLpIEhn.jpg
 
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Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg
there's a preset called "original", thats what ps4/ps4 pro settings are, it also applies to ps5 due to Backwars compatible stuff
 
TL;DR

I think what he means is that Michael sucks, but I'm not sure because I didn't read it either. 🤷‍♂️

Wonder what Michael did to infuriate all those guys that seem to hate him. I've been following and supporting him ever since he started making his comparisons and videos many years ago and he's a very nice guy and in fact I think he doesn't get enough credit for his excellent work, which is as good as DF and sometimes even better. Apparently Horizon runs now amazingly on PC and if you say otherwise you're a console warrior and a shill. I doesn' t matter that PC player have been complaining about this game's performance since it launched.
Oooh boy you should read the DF videos and accusations of shilling, lying, cheating etc. etc. You're going to have a filled day defending those guys, unless you think, like some people here, that only DF fails in the their analysis, or that they do it on purpose.

My stance on this is simple, they both (DF and NXGamer) know more about it than myself, so i just listen and read and take the information i find pertinent. If i would only talk shit about their work, if i could proove why they're wrong (either of them) but that's me.
 
Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg
How is a 3700X/3070 combo ahead by 10% than a 3800X/3070 Ti combo? It should be the other way around.
1080p/Ultimate
jMzL56a.png


Let's compare to 4k ultimate quality. 3700x - 3080. 80avg. Funny enough, same on cpu and gpu so that CPU is a minimum for 3080 to not bottleneck it
For an "ultimate" quality, the pop up lod and shadows lod look terrible. The meridian flyby looks like shit

cLpIEhn.jpg
Looks like my PC is punching above its weight. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Usually, the difference between 3070 and 3080 would be larger around ~33%, but here we see it reduced to a 23% difference.
4K/Ultimate
DgiFXz0.jpg
 
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Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg

Here's CPU test on 10700K: [would love to see the results with latest Ryzen 5900X to see how far ahead that is]

Horizon-Zero-Dawn-2021-09-03-22-41-36-507.png


I think we should give props to devs for the patches if anything this game perf got improved leaps and bounds from launch.
 
I actually feel that way about El Analista De Bits. DF, NXGamer and VGTech are fine with me. Only slight issue that I have is with Alex.

Alex is right on this though. We can't benchmark PS5 v PC in this game: a) CB rendering adds some extra load no matter how small on gpu or cpu or both and b) it's locked at 60 fps on ps5.

This is probably the closest shot we'll ever get to see PC v ps5 - 2720 x 1530 original preset [a few more pixels , but no cb] :

Horizon-Zero-Dawn-2021-09-03-23-47-33-034.png


To call this a bad port is to put in nicely - disingenuous. What GPU would you need to get 60 at those settings, idk 3060, or lower?
 
DF is the most professional channel I've found yet who do these sort of comparisons, so yeah it's hard to disagree with them. Every one can make a mistake it's a matter of admitting them !

So what's wrong with NXgamers tools then? Digital Foundry said his tools are fine. Something that they never said about El Analista De Bits and even criticized him for those tools. El Analista rarely admits his mistakes in comparison.
 
Maybe read my post again .

Anyway I do follow DF, Analysethebits and used to follow NXGamer. Never heard of vgtech before though.

Why are you following El Analista De Bits? DF has an issue with him especially with the tools that he uses.

Edit: I'm curious as to why you don't believe the HZD port doesn't have issues on PC.


I remember watching videos and reading articles about those issues from DF.
 
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main issue was the pascal performance (dunno about maxwell)

gtx 1060 rendered around 25-32 fps and rx 580 rendered around 45-50 fps

they fixed pascal performance bringing gtx 1060 perf to near rx 570 levels

outside of that the perf remained same throughout the entire release
 
Why are you following El Analista De Bits? DF has an issue with him especially with the tools that he uses.

Edit: I'm curious as to why you don't believe the HZD port doesn't have issues on PC.


I remember watching videos and reading articles about those issues from DF.
Hmmm. Ok fine. I'll repeat one more time. I follow DF for their benchmarks and Analyzerofbits for visual comparison NOT their fps benches.

I'm playing HZD on PC and can basically lock to 120 fps at PS5 settings. That certainly doesn't sound like big issues to me.

Oh I'm sure you missed how PS5 version still has visual glitches in cutscenes where it was fixed on PC... strangely no mention of that by NXGamer, but he called ps5 the best version :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
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Hmmm. Ok fine. I'll repeat one more time. I follow DF for their benchmarks and Analyzerofbits for visual comparison NOT their fps benches.

I'm playing HZD on PC and can basically lock to 120 fps at PS5 settings. That certainly doesn't sound like big issues to me.

Oh I'm sure you missed how PS5 version still has visual glitches in cutscenes where it was fixed on PC... strangely no mention of that by NXGamer, but he called ps5 the best version :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Of course with a powerful enough PC you can brute force anything.

But the PC version still had issues at launch and while most of them were fixed there's still some issues left. Which could account for anything strange that happens with the game on certain PC hardware. I about this from DF which you seem to trust.

Beyond polish and stability, performance was a genuine problem back in the day. Nvidia GPUs based on the 10-Series Pascal architecture suffered particularly, to the point where the GTX 1060 delivered performance that was worse in spots than the far less capable PlayStation 4 GPU. Its closest AMD equivalent - the Radeon RX 580 - fared better, but over 6TF of compute power was not capable of consistently doubling the performance of the 1.84TF PS4 graphics core. There's good news and bad news here. Whether it's down to Guerrilla Games' optimisation, Nvidia driver improvements or a mixture of both, the GTX 1060 is now much, much more effective. The improvement is big: the benchmark registers a 65 per cent boost to performance, while in-the-moment stutter is reduced by a great degree.
 
How is a 3700X/3070 combo ahead by 10% than a 3800X/3070 Ti combo? It should be the other way around.
1080p/Ultimate
jMzL56a.png



Looks like my PC is punching above its weight. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Usually, the difference between 3070 and 3080 would be larger around ~33%, but here we see it reduced to a 23% difference.
4K/Ultimate
DgiFXz0.jpg
decided to give my own spin with my trusty old 2700x i've been bitching about for 2 pages (lmao xd). ofc this is not representative of real 2700x performance since im rocking 3466 cl14 + crazy tightened timings with micron e-die (well everyone has their own tactics)

played around a bit, no apparent stutters as i've exaggerated, also installed it on an SSD though

T4aCPB2.jpg


+ 1527p original preset... but then again, ps5 is locked to 60... doesnt meant all it can do is 60, maybe it can do 70-90 at times, we may never know

9yvuQpR.jpg
 
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Of course with a powerful enough PC you can brute force anything.

But the PC version still had issues at launch and while most of them were fixed there's still some issues left. Which could account for anything strange that happens with the game on certain PC hardware. I about this from DF which you seem to trust.

When did PS5 patch came out? Why should we look at a launch version and not updated PC version, if we're talking about it today, not a year ago?

PS4 version received 25 updates since launch [you know same version that runs on PS5 but with 60 fps patch] and yet it still has cutscenes anomalies.

PC version received 11 updates and it is currently in as perfect state as you probably get and has no glitches in cutscenes that is still present on ps5.
 
When did PS5 patch came out? Why should we look at a launch version and not updated PC version, if we're talking about it today, not a year ago?

PS4 version received 25 updates since launch [you know same version that runs on PS5 but with 60 fps patch] and yet it still has cutscenes anomalies.

PC version received 11 updates and it is currently in as perfect state as you probably get and has no glitches in cutscenes that is still present on ps5.

I didn't post a link to the launch version though.


Granted the article was from March so it might be a little outdated. But it certainly isn't about the PC version at launch.

Edit:

I believe this is the article that you're making a reference to.

 
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decided to give my own spin with my trusty old 2700x i've been bitching about for 2 pages (lmao xd). ofc this is not representative of real 2700x performance since im rocking 3466 cl14 + crazy tightened timings with micron e-die (well everyone has their own tactics)

played around a bit, no apparent stutters as i've exaggerated, also installed it on an SSD though

+ 1527p original preset... but then again, ps5 is locked to 60... doesnt meant all it can do is 60, maybe it can do 70-90 at times, we may never know

9yvuQpR.jpg

Whow 82 fps 99% on CPU ! So 2700X is clearly not a problem and is likely performing close to PS5 even though it's an older gen cpu. Zen 1+ i believe, there was a node shrink with 2000 series.
 
How is a 3700X/3070 combo ahead by 10% than a 3800X/3070 Ti combo? It should be the other way around.
1080p/Ultimate
jMzL56a.png



Looks like my PC is punching above its weight. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Usually, the difference between 3070 and 3080 would be larger around ~33%, but here we see it reduced to a 23% difference.
4K/Ultimate
DgiFXz0.jpg
No idea, I can double check if it's clocked down somehow (edit: nope), it's my Cubase rig so I haven't bothered tweaking it for performance.
Looking at your graph you don't have as severe dips. Could the bottleneck for me be the ram or hdd?
Anyway just wanted to show that the game is eating system resources, the average framerate is fine but it's all over the place, without gsync it wouldn't be a pleasant experience.
 
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Whow 82 fps 99% on CPU ! So 2700X is clearly not a problem
Of course, it's not. 👇
The drops are not all related to CPU, the battle with the Sabretooth at the start for example is 100% GPU bound from a fill-rate perspective from the alpha and particles.
For HZD and many games throughout a frame and play it will be I/O, MEM, CPU, Cache, ROP, ALU, Bandwidth etc etc etc. In my tiny test here in HZD we can see all of these at points, specific issues that present themselves at various points.
a game is never just limited by 1 thing. Hanging your hat on the 2700 being the sole reason is not only foolish but wrong.
8-core Zen+ is and should be very much capable of at least doubling the frame rate on well-optimized ports that are designed with 8-core Jaguar CPUs in mind.
 
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Those 8K graphics settings at Max on Horizon PC are beautiful but I'm glad I'm not exposed to that too much and own away by PS5 patched version. I know many GAFers here probably don't pay for their electric bills, either living in rented accommodation with bills included or living in parents house. But here in the UK energy prices will go up again this winter, and the power draw for playing PC games on those max settings in comparison to a PS5 is a massive difference. PC gaming is no doubt superior but man is it expensive. I'm just glad consoles can finally have 60fps games more often because in the PS3/PS4 generations that 30fps limit was a disaster.
 
Those 8K graphics settings at Max on Horizon PC are beautiful but I'm glad I'm not exposed to that too much and own away by PS5 patched version. I know many GAFers here probably don't pay for their electric bills, either living in rented accommodation with bills included or living in parents house. But here in the UK energy prices will go up again this winter, and the power draw for playing PC games on those max settings in comparison to a PS5 is a massive difference. PC gaming is no doubt superior but man is it expensive. I'm just glad consoles can finally have 60fps games more often because in the PS3/PS4 generations that 30fps limit was a disaster.
Yup. PC gaming isn't for everyone, but you don't have to waste performance on pointless things. Only reason everyone is posting ultimate graphs here is because there are so many things that can affect performance so it'll be impossible to do a 1:1 comparison if you can tweak whatever you want. I never accept bad framerates, I drop whatever needed to get things to look smooth, still play on 1080p screens too because it's a waste for me to go higher.
On console I'm stuck with the settings chosen by the devs. In this case it's not a problem but it wasn't long ago when even racing games were 30fps on console and you couldn't do anything about it. This gen is so far pretty awesome.
 
How about the fact that not everyone will have the specs to run it at 4K or higher (or even less) on 60 FPS?
Yeah because everyone has a ps5 right now...

I'm pretty sure that there are more 2080ti, 3070, 3080,3090 plus all the high end amd gpu that can run the game at 4k60 (or even 1800p60 that is already better than cb4k) than ps5 out in the market.

And we only talk about resolution and framerate, i would argue that even 1440p60 with high/ultra details and anisotropic at 16x look already fairly better than 4kcb with console details, and ifwe count that, we can include gpus like 2070/2080super and more.

So why exactly is horizon on ps5 less rare than all these pc configurations were the game runs even better?!

(Sorry for the english but you get my point)
 
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Yup. PC gaming isn't for everyone, but you don't have to waste performance on pointless things. Only reason everyone is posting ultimate graphs here is because there are so many things that can affect performance so it'll be impossible to do a 1:1 comparison if you can tweak whatever you want. I never accept bad framerates, I drop whatever needed to get things to look smooth, still play on 1080p screens too because it's a waste for me to go higher.
On console I'm stuck with the settings chosen by the devs. In this case it's not a problem but it wasn't long ago when even racing games were 30fps on console and you couldn't do anything about it. This gen is so far pretty awesome.

Let's hope 60fps is the standard going forward. If not I will have to move to PC gaming.
 
Had to give it a run on my 3070ti, which currently is about 2x PS5 in price.
What gfx settings did NX use?
I got a minimum fps in ultimate quality juuust above 60fps, in 1080p. It's mostly hovering around 100fps though and looks absolutely silky smooth with gsync. But it's definitely a demanding game.

QCiGeVg.jpg
My 3060ti
pztjpxn.jpg


Something must be up with something in your pc
 
Let's hope 60fps is the standard going forward. If not I will have to move to PC gaming.
it will be, there's no doubts/discussions/possibilities about it.

they're not crammed with 5400 rpm slow harddisks + 1.6 ghz tablet cpus

they're primed with high speed nvme ssds and 3.7ghz+ 8/16 zen 2 configuration

if a dev end up only providing 30 fps with such a CPU, that is completely on dev. they managed to squueze out 30 fps in allot of games with 1.6 ghz jaguar and 60 fps in some games with the same crap cpu.

gpu wise you can always go down in resolution
 
it will be, there's no doubts/discussions/possibilities about it.

they're not crammed with 5400 rpm slow harddisks + 1.6 ghz tablet cpus

they're primed with high speed nvme ssds and 3.7ghz+ 8/16 zen 2 configuration

if a dev end up only providing 30 fps with such a CPU, that is completely on dev. they managed to squueze out 30 fps in allot of games with 1.6 ghz jaguar and 60 fps in some games with the same crap cpu.

gpu wise you can always go down in resolution
Yeah but this will not help the triangle/primitive generation cost which also doubles with 60 FPS.
 
My 3060ti
pztjpxn.jpg


Something must be up with something in your pc
Hmm yeah I wonder what it is. I know there is a silent and game mode on the graphics card but I don't know how to check or change it, I think game mode is default but I have no idea tbh.
I actually tried tweaking things with Afterburner now as well, slight overclock from a Guru3D guide, and barely any noticeable difference at all:
gAC4C0P.jpg

9Ph8LHs.png

🤷‍♂️
 
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Hmm yeah I wonder what it is. I know there is a silent and game mode on the graphics card but I don't know how to check or change it, I think game mode is default but I have no idea tbh.
I actually tried tweaking things with Afterburner now as well, slight overclock from a Guru3D guide, and barely any noticeable difference at all:
gAC4C0P.jpg

9Ph8LHs.png

🤷‍♂️
150 and 1000 is a decent OC. I'm not sure what's up
 
Yeah but this will not help the triangle/primitive generation cost which also doubles with 60 FPS.
lets see

a jaguar chip at 1.6 ghz scores a whopping 95 STR in cpu-z


ryzen 3600 scores a solid 488 STR in the same test. said 3600 is probably operating at 4 ghz so if normalize it to 3.6-3.8 ghz, lets say its 475.

475 / 95 = a whopping 5 times IPC/single core horsepower right there. simple as that.

5 times...

mix SMT into the soup...
 
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