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[remember_spinal]

"Since the game was completed and placed on the market (which happened on April 1st 2021), the Company has been entitled to royalties payable if specific proceeds (as defined in the agreement) from its sales ensure that the publisher recovers a predetermined level of costs incurred in connection with the development, promotion and distribution of the game. The level of royalties depends on the amount of specific proceeds from the game's sales.

"The Group received no royalties from the publisher for the period to December 31st 2021, which means that as at the reporting date net proceeds from the sale of Outriders were insufficient to recover the costs and expenses incurred by the publisher to develop, distribute and promote the title.

"This was confirmed by the royalty statement for the fourth quarter of 2021, received by the Group from the publisher. "

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8602...it-in-2021-people-can-fly-confirms/index.html

People Can Fly also says that there is no guarantee that Outriders will ever become profitable.

"There can be no assurance that net proceeds from the sale of Outriders in future periods will be sufficient for the publisher to recover the costs incurred and to pay royalties to the Group."


It's also worth mentioning that Square Enix has full IP and publishing rights to the Outriders brand. That means People Can Fly may not have made any money from Outriders' commercial release as of 2021.

"Under the development and publishing agreement, the Company transferred to the publisher its existing and future intellectual property rights (copyrighted property rights) in Outriders, as well as any DLCs, sequels and additional game-related products. The Company also waived its moral rights for the benefit of the publisher."

People Can Fly also says it may refuse to make new DLC and expansions for Outriders, and if it does, Square Enix may choose another developer to make new content.

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8602...it-in-2021-people-can-fly-confirms/index.html
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8602...it-in-2021-people-can-fly-confirms/index.html

Outriders didn't make a profit in 2021, People Can Fly confirms

Outriders didn't turn a profit throughout 2021 and developer People Can Fly have not received any royalty payments from the game.

www.tweaktown.com

 

[nominedomine]

The Gamepass effect.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

The Gamepass effect.

You mean the SquareEnix effect

 

[Desless1]

The Gamepass effect.

Well, Gamepass is the reason why I pre-ordered the DLC.

 

[nominedomine]

You mean the SquareEnix effect

You think MS would've gave them more money if they asked nicely?

This is the position publishers will find themselves more and more as people are being taught not to buy games.

 

[remember_spinal]

The Gamepass effect

I think it’s gonna be tough for third party AAA games to really make a profit from being on the service day one if they don’t have MTX or some kind of extra DLC/seasons attached to it.

I think it works for indies because of the low cost of development, but big games need bigger checks to make up for loss of all those sales. I also think people on other platforms will probably be turned off from the fact that its being offered free on another

 

[nominedomine]

I think it’s gonna be tough for third party AAA games to really make a profit from being on the service day one if they don’t have MTX or some kind of extra DLC/seasons attached to it.

I think it works for indies because of the low cost of development, but big games need bigger checks to make up for loss of all those sales. I also think people on other platforms will probably be turned off from the fact that its being offered free on another

You can divide the $15 in any way you want, it will never make more money than a game selling well.

MTX ain't something people are willing to pay for everything as well, not every game is Fortnite.

 

[March Climber]

The Gamepass effect.

I feel like this game is the wrong case to use that on.

 

[nominedomine]

I feel like this game is the wrong case to use that on.

Why? One of the biggest cases of day 1 release no?

 

[Stuart360]

I think it’s gonna be tough for third party AAA games to really make a profit from being on the service day one if they don’t have MTX or some kind of extra DLC/seasons attached to it.

I think it works for indies because of the low cost of development, but big games need bigger checks to make up for loss of all those sales. I also think people on other platforms will probably be turned off from the fact that its being offered free on another

Well luckily for them they dont have to put their games on Gamepass. Microsoft doesnt kidnap the families of the devleopers and puts a gun against their head until the devs sign on the dotted line.
These things are calculated with all factors in play. The offer from Microsoft is then estimated against what they think they will lose from some Xbox gamers not buying the game.
Square was obviously happy with the deal or they wouldnt of done it.
The game also wasnt on PC gamepass remember, it was only Xbox.

 

[March Climber]

Why? One of the biggest cases of day 1 release no?

Well, I mean in terms of the quality of the game itself. It's not a strong enough case because word of mouth and middling user reviews also hurt it's push. I'll be swayed to your corner once I see a big industry darling/titan of a game fail because of gamepass.

 

[nominedomine]

Well, I mean in terms of the quality of the game itself. It's not a strong enough case because word of mouth and middling user reviews also hurt it's push. I'll be swayed to your corner once I see a big industry darling/titan of a game fail because of gamepass.

I don't understand, if it was a better game wouldn't it be leaving even more money on the table?

I get that a publisher get desperate when they think they have a flop on their hands, but ultimately this is what MS wanted to pay for the game.

A game being available for $15 on a subscription service will devalue it on every platform. Who is going to buy the Batman movie now that it's available on HBO? People even make fun of the other services that are trying to charge you for the movie (as people make fun of Sony trying to sell games for $60 when they are available on gamepass). The same thing apply here.

I'll never drop $60 on a game that I know is available for $15 or even less. I would rather burn my money.

 

[Stuart360]

You can divide the $15 in any way you want, it will never make more money than a game selling well.

MTX ain't something people are willing to pay for everything as well, not every game is Fortnite.

MTX made up soemthing like 70% of gaming revenue last year, something like that anyway.

 

[nominedomine]

MTX made up soemthing like 70% of gaming revenue last year, something like that anyway.

Great, what a happy end for games. Disgusting.

 

[KyoZz]

The Gamepass effect.

Meanwhile in the real world:

Outriders Still Had High Sales Despite Being Free On Xbox Game Pass

Number 3.

screenrant.com

Xbox Game Pass Helps Sales if a Game is Good, But Hurts Them if it’s Bad Says NPD

Does Xbox Game Pass help or hurt game sales? Well, according to the NPD Group, it really all depends on the individual game.

wccftech.com

"Putting a title on Game Pass can amplify consumer excitement and sales, but only if the game is received well.
If your game isn’t so hot, or perhaps just has a weak launch, Game Pass can cut the opposite way, amplifying negative sentiment and damaging sales."




Again, and as proven countless times, if your games is good it will sell no matter if it is on Gamepass or not. Period.

 

[nominedomine]

Meanwhile in the real world:

Outriders Still Had High Sales Despite Being Free On Xbox Game Pass

Number 3.

screenrant.com

Xbox Game Pass Helps Sales if a Game is Good, But Hurts Them if it’s Bad Says NPD

Does Xbox Game Pass help or hurt game sales? Well, according to the NPD Group, it really all depends on the individual game.

wccftech.com

"Putting a title on Game Pass can amplify consumer excitement and sales, but only if the game is received well.
If your game isn’t so hot, or perhaps just has a weak launch, Game Pass can cut the opposite way, amplifying negative sentiment and damaging sales."




Again, and as proven countless times, if your games is good it will sell no matter if it is on Gamepass or not. Period.

Yea, "real world", more like the PR spin world.

Why don't MS start charging devs to put their games on Gamepass if it will make them sell more?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

The Gamepass effect.

Maybe it should've taken a 1 year before going into any service, but seems like the game itself is mediocre.

 

[remember_spinal]

Yea, "real world", more like the PR spin world.

Why don't MS start charging devs to put their games on Gamepass if it will make them sell more?

don't you know? Elden Ring would have made twice the amount of money if it released day one on gamepass

 

[Salty Popsicle]

I don't understand, if it was a better game would it be leaving even more money on the table?

I get that a publisher get desperate when they think they have a flop on their hands, but ultimately this is what MS wanted to pay for the game.

A game being available for $15 on a subscription service will devalue it on every platform. Who is going to buy the Batman movie now that it's available on HBO? People even make fun on the other services that are trying to charge you for the movie. The same thing apply here.

GAAS games thrive off the size of their player-base, not by sales of individual physical or digital copies. Gamepass offered Outriders a huge opportunity to have a large player-base from day one and it succeeded in that respect. The game simply didn't hook people in a way to have them coming back periodically and purchase the new skins and content. Gamepass lived up its name by providing the customer base, Outriders failed by being unengaging.

 

[nominedomine]

GAAS games thrive off the size of their player-base, not by sales of individual physical or digital copies. Gamepass offered Outriders a huge opportunity to have a large player-base from day one and it succeeded in that respect. The game simply didn't hook people in a way to have them coming back periodically and purchase the new skins and content. Gamepass lived up its name by providing the customer base, Outriders failed by being unengaging.

So gamepass is for GAAS games? Now we are getting somewhere.

Would you say that the Gamepass/Subscription mode incentivizes more devs to turn their games into GaaS?

don't you know? Elden Ring would have made twice the amount of money if it released day one on gamepass

From Software just didn't have the money to pay MS to put the game in the service to push the sales even further .

 

[Salty Popsicle]

don't you know? Elden Ring would have made twice the amount of money if it released day one on gamepass

Elden Ring is not a GAAS style game, GamePass would not have helped at all.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Elden Ring is not a GAAS style game, GamePass would not have helped at all.

Neither was this

 

[Salty Popsicle]

So gamepass is for GAAS games? Now we are getting somewhere.

Would you say that the Gamepass/Subscription mode incentivizes more devs to turn their games into GaaS?

I don't know, do you think Outriders was conceived at the start as a GAAS game or do you think they tailored the game specifically to that type of style after it became known to the dev-team that it would be launching on GamePass? I do know that Microsoft's first party output has been leaning more towards GAAS in multiplayer modes like Forza Horizon and Halo Infinite, but at the same time games like Starfield and Hellblade 2 are singleplayer games where GAAS is non-existent.

 

[remember_spinal]

Elden Ring is not a GAAS style game, GamePass would not have helped at all.

I think it’s gonna be tough for third party AAA games to really make a profit from being on the service day one if they don’t have MTX or some kind of extra DLC/seasons attached to it.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I would never have played outriders if i had to pay for it. Instead I downloaded it, played for like 30 mins, said out loud to no one “wow, this game stinks” then uninstalled it. The gamepass effect.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Neither was this

In that case SE was stupid to have put the game on GamePass. Unless they had dozens of paid DLC at the ready there was no reason to offer the game for free.

 

[KyoZz]

Yea, "real world", more like the PR spin world.

Why don't MS start charging devs to put their games on Gamepass if it will make them sell more?

Yeah of course it's all a lie, Gamepass is coasting 1 billion per month and every game is bombing in sales if it is on Gamepass.
Oh wait, while we don't have actual numbers, everywhere you look the data suggest that not only Gamepass is not affecting sales, but it is also helping building a bigger community:

Forza Horizon 5 is a fantastic game with over 10 million players with demanding challenges and tasks that keep gamers hooked. Without a question, Forza

Forza Horizon 5 is a fantastic game with over 10 million players with demanding challenges and tasks that keep gamers hooked. Without a question, Forza

www.bollyinside.com

But sure the fact that Outriders (really who is remembering this average game?) is struggling on the long term is because of Gamepass...

 

[March Climber]

I don't understand, if it was a better game would it be leaving even more money on the table?

I don't know yet, that's why I need to see what happens first. I'm not saying my thoughts are opposite of yours(as a lot of people here tend to think you're either for or against things). I'm seeing both the good and the bad here, but I need to see more data of the bad to know how bad it can get before I leap to a conclusion.

Right now, the data more points to Square Enix not having good business sense.

 

[nominedomine]

I don't know, do you think Outriders was conceived at the start as a GAAS game or do you think they tailored the game specifically to that type of style after it became known to the dev-team that it would be launching on GamePass? I do know that Microsoft's first party output has been leaning more towards GAAS in multiplayer modes like Forza Horizon and Halo Infinite, but at the same time games like Starfield and Hellblade 2 are singleplayer games where GAAS is non-existent.

Starfield and Hellblade 2 haven't even released.

Gears, Halo, Forza all their main franchises are GaaS already. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is and I think people need to stop denying that.

 

[remember_spinal]

Yeah of course it's all a lie, Gamepass is coasting 1 billion per month and every game is bombing in sales if it is on Gamepass.
Oh wait, while we don't have actual numbers, everywhere you look the data suggest that not only Gamepass is not affecting sales, but it is also helping building a bigger community:

Forza Horizon 5 is a fantastic game with over 10 million players with demanding challenges and tasks that keep gamers hooked. Without a question, Forza

Forza Horizon 5 is a fantastic game with over 10 million players with demanding challenges and tasks that keep gamers hooked. Without a question, Forza

www.bollyinside.com

But sure the fact that Outriders (really who is remembering this average game?) is struggling on the long term is because of Gamepass...

descenders is a game that was made for like 5000 dollars

 

[Stephen Curry]

The Gamepass effect.

It made no money because on one of the four platforms it is included in a subscription program. What?

 

[nominedomine]

Yeah of course it's all a lie, Gamepass is coasting 1 billion per month and every game is bombing in sales if it is on Gamepass.
Oh wait, while we don't have actual numbers, everywhere you look the data suggest that not only Gamepass is not affecting sales, but it is also helping building a bigger community:

Forza Horizon 5 is a fantastic game with over 10 million players with demanding challenges and tasks that keep gamers hooked. Without a question, Forza

Forza Horizon 5 is a fantastic game with over 10 million players with demanding challenges and tasks that keep gamers hooked. Without a question, Forza

www.bollyinside.com

But sure the fact that Outriders (really who is remembering this average game?) is struggling on the long term is because of Gamepass...

Is this a joke post? That's all I read btw.

Hiding the numbers doesn't hide the truth. No one honestly believe putting a game on Gamepass on day one will increase it's sales.

 

[remember_spinal]

Starfield and Hellblade 2 haven't even released.

Gears, Halo, Forza all their main franchises are GaaS already. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is and I think people need to stop denying that.

and starfield has been in production for like 7 years already, it hardly counts towards microsofts internal studios initiative with gamepass.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Starfield and Hellblade 2 haven't even released.

Gears, Halo, Forza all their main franchises are GaaS already.

A game can't be GAAS unless they have a multiplayer components. I very highly doubt Starfield or Hellblade 2 will have multiplayer components. Gears, Halo, and Forza GAAS is the most unobtrusive in the industry as the only things that can be purchased with real money are skins/cosmetics that don't affect gameplay. The only downside so far has been the slow trickle of content in Halo Infinite but this seems to be more of an issue with 343i management than anything else.

 

[Craig of War]

More reason for Square Enix to sell
Their games are flopping left and right from Babylon Falls to this not making money to losing 200M on Marvel games
Seem Square only has Final Fantasy making profit wile everything else is flopping perfect time to sell

 

[Chukhopops]

Do we even know if the money MS paid is counted as sales for the royalty payment? It sounds like it’s not the case, which would make the point somewhat irrelevant to determine if the game made a profit?

 

[SLB1904]

Do we even know if the money MS paid is counted as sales for the royalty payment? It sounds like it’s not the case, which would make the point somewhat irrelevant to determine if the game made a profit?

that would go to the game's revenue regardless

 

[Plantoid]

Elden Ring is not a GAAS style game, GamePass would not have helped at all.

Outriders isn't gaas either, the game just isn't above average, had lots of bugs and connection issues, I played for free, but i would never buy it

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The Gamepass effect.

Yeah, let's blame Gamepass and not the publisher who sold 38 million copies of Tomb Raider and still couldn't turn a profit

 

[nominedomine]

A game can't be GAAS unless they have a multiplayer components. I very highly doubt Starfield or Hellblade 2 will have multiplayer components. Gears, Halo, and Forza GAAS is the most unobtrusive in the industry as the only things that can be purchased with real money are skins/cosmetics that don't affect gameplay. The only downside so far has been the slow trickle of content in Halo Infinite but this seems to be more of an issue with 343i management than anything else.

Put MTX in it and keep releasing content for the game and it is a GaaS to me, doesn't have to be multiplayer I see plenty of it on mobile. Bethesda games are very suitable for it btw, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

and starfield has been in production for like 7 years already, it hardly counts towards microsofts internal studios initiative with gamepass.

You don't think Microsoft could have mandated a multiplayer mode for Starfield or lootboxes if they wanted after purchasing Bethesda? If anything, reports from Xbox Game Studios have been that Microsoft has been very hands off which is why so many of their upcoming games are taking longer than usual to complete.

 

[KyoZz]

Is this a joke post? That's all I read btw.

Good for you, next time know better.

descenders is a game that was made for like 5000 dollars

And? Because Outriders is made with millions of dollars it is a better example?
The point was to show that Gamepass can help grown a community, but the game needs to be good and if you are doing a Destiny clone, among the other 1000 that exist, you should make sure you have some solid features to stay alive. No matter your game is on Gamepass or not.
In fact I'm sure that it helped this one to survive a little bit longer.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Put MTX in it and keep releasing content for the game and it is a GaaS to me, doesn't have to be multiplayer I see plenty of it on mobile. Bethesda games are very suitable for it btw, I wouldn't be surprised.

By your definition, TES Morrowind was a GAAS game.

 

[nominedomine]

By your definition, TES Morrowind was a GAAS game.

Maybe that's why I don't like it then. Was Bethesda charging for MTX back then? I thought it started with Oblivion with the advent of the horse armor and all. A really bad omen of what was to come.

The definition is in the name: game as a service. GTS and GT7 are GaaS and you don't have to take part in the multiplayer.

 

[Mech_Warrior]

"Outrider did not meet our sales expectations"

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Good for you, next time know better.

And? Because Outriders is made with millions of dollars it is a better example?
The point was to show that Gamepass can help grown a community, but the game needs to be good and if you are doing a Destiny clone, among the other 1000 that exist, you should make sure you have some solid features to stay alive. No matter your game is on Gamepass or not.
In fact I'm sure that it helped this one to survive a little bit longer.

Agreed, I don't see many people clamoring that Outriders would have been a 10 million+ copy seller had it not been on GP. Hell, Guardians of the Galaxy is a much more relevant IP and even SE lost millions on that game.

 

[Abriael_GN]

That means People Can Fly may not have made any money from Outriders' commercial release as of 2021.

This is very misleading. They have not made any *royalty* money. This doesn't mean they have not been paid. Royalties are a bonus, not the entirety of their contract payment.

If they had agreed to be paid exclusively in royalties (which is 99% not the case), it'd be on them, not SE. But there's absolutely nothing here that says that's the case.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Oh wow. Talk about a game I 100% forgot about after I initially had interest.

What happened. I haven't even heard it's name forever.

 

[remember_spinal]

You don't think Microsoft could have mandated a multiplayer mode for Starfield or lootboxes if they wanted after purchasing Bethesda? If anything, reports from Xbox Game Studios have been that Microsoft has been very hands off which is why so many of their upcoming games are taking longer than usual to complete.

Microsoft is barely managing their own studios much less redirecting the entire titantic that Bethesda and their games are in only a short year

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Microsoft is barely managing their own studios much less redirecting an entire titantic that Bethesda and their games is in only a short year

Barely managing? I guess them being the highest rated games publisher last year was just pure luck.