Support NeoGAF

[StreetsofBeige]

What incentive is there to invest a few hundred million into a 20 hour single player game if it's day 1 on GamePass?

Who knew MS is forcing every dev with big budget games to day one them on GP.

If the third party studio thinks day one on GP isn't worth it, then copy what most games do on Xbox or PS+..... dont go on day one sub plan. If $9.99 indies and Game Hunter Sniper X for $60 can figure it out not going on GP, then surely a company making a big game can figure it out too.

Most games arent even on these services. Sell them the normal way and when the sales dry up, do a deal with MS or Sony and put them on sub plans a year or two later.

I dont see gamers waiting to play Elden Ring on sub plan. It sold insane amounts of copies. Make a good game and rake in the sales the normal way selling digital copies and discs first.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

i feel like everytime theres a comment about this acquisition its restarts a thread that has the exact same arguments and examples laid out and it goes on and on.



At this point wouldn't yall just rather wait for actual progress on it before arguing more about it?

Yeah....feel bad that I started this thread now. Everyone is just going in circles.

 

[MScarpa]

And you people would be OK with that? What world do we live in where people are OK with mega corps gobbling up everyone. I have access to all the games anyway, but even so, it's bad move and greedy. This is Ms MO. They don't create x they buy what others do, and ruin competition.

I don't care who buys them, as long as they're on a subscription plan I'm happy. Gamepass, PSplus, shit even some new Nintendo thing. GIVE IT TO ME!!! I'm eating SOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOD.

 

[Clear]

Your analogy doesn't make sense. Either way you are paying Microsoft and the developer. If you chose not to use Amazon then Amazon doesn't make money.

Its all about network effects and the anti-competition it brings. The issue is that when you have enough eyeballs on your storefront you get to play kingmaker. And not just for your core offerings, you get to give prominent placement to ancilliary product and start affecting that market as well. A good example of this thinking is the recent Riot Games deal with GamePass, adding bonuses to a certain partner's mobile and f2p offerings as part of a console gaming service seems incoherent until you think of it in terms of network effects.

Its the same rationale as to why MS are willing to pay billions for ABK, its because it gives them brand power in all 3 major gaming market sectors, this gives them greater influence not only individually (in each sector) but collectively.

People are fixating way too much on Xbox vs. Playstation, its about way more, way bigger stakes than that.

 

[ArtHands]

Why would any of them care? Nintendo never really gets cod to begin with, Valve and epic are pc oriented and Stadia's got way bigger problems.

So basically it won't impact the entire gaming industry unlike what Sony claim.

 

[laynelane]

Sony clearly sees the writing on the wall for their future. They don't have the cash injections like these other trillion dollar corps. It's not just MS they are worried about, but all of them snatching up publishers. They are making a desperate attempt to stop the deal or alter it in hopes that regulators do the same to other companies in the future. It's a futile attempt but quite hilarious, money always wins.

Spoiler

In case it's confusing, I'm impersonating ResetERA user UnsungKing with this quote reply. I'm doing my part and taking the piss out of the dumbest fanboy posts on Reset so more people can see what their mods allows certain posters to get away with when it's criticism (thinly-veiled open hostility) directed towards Sony.

So many people know the inner workings of corporations, don't they? I've also noticed a trend towards calling things "hilarious" or "funny" when that concept is clearly not involved in anything the person is saying. I don't know, narratives are born and raised here, there, and other places too. Very little of it has anything to do with reality and it makes discussion of these topics almost impossible.

On a side note, good on you for wading into that cesspo...place to get into some of the thought processes of their "experts". You're made of sterner stuff than me.

 

[Kagey K]

So basically it won't impact the entire gaming industry unlike what Sony claim.

Sony thinks they are the entire industry, you can see it in thier comments regarding this deal.

 

[remember_spinal]

Yeah....feel bad that I started this thread now. Everyone is just going in circles.

It would have happened anyway, and it won't stop until next year

 

[Corndog]

Its all about network effects and the anti-competition it brings. The issue is that when you have enough eyeballs on your storefront you get to play kingmaker. And not just for your core offerings, you get to give prominent placement to ancilliary product and start affecting that market as well. A good example of this thinking is the recent Riot Games deal with GamePass, adding bonuses to a certain partner's mobile and f2p offerings as part of a console gaming service seems incoherent until you think of it in terms of network effects.

Its the same rationale as to why MS are willing to pay billions for ABK, its because it gives them brand power in all 3 major gaming market sectors, this gives them greater influence not only individually (in each sector) but collectively.

People are fixating way too much on Xbox vs. Playstation, its about way more, way bigger stakes than that.

Sony does even more than Microsoft does. Have you shown this same amount of concern when forespoken, FF7:R, Deathloop, or Ghostwire:Tokyo?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sony thinks they are the entire industry, you can see it in thier comments regarding this deal.

Not just this deal, remember the leaked Epic court case files?

There was that anti-competitive clause they had in there where they'd do some kind of ratio math and charge studios a top up fee if their mtx ratio drops below the PS user base %. So if it so happens there's a disproportional amount of mtx on PC because PC gamers are spending more, Sony wanted to charge the studio an amount to keep the ratio whole.

It was something weird like that. I have never seen such an odd bully tactic ever in business deals.

That would be like Walmart charging Pepsi a fee because Walmart is 10% of industry sales and Target is 5% of industry sales, but it turns out Pepsi Guava Coconut Extreme is selling only 8% of sales at Walmart. So Walmart wants to charge Pepsi a 2% top up fee because their customer base is buying less pop than a competing store.

 

[CatLady]

Well usually we fear something that is been showing signs of happening. Game quality dropping means fewer subscribers not more. Why would people pay for a service that has bad games? The reason a service like Game pass is successful is because it offers quality games at a fair price. But of course it is your right to fear something that hasn't happened.

I fear some things too. I fear successful game companies becoming arrogant. I fear console prices and games will keep increasing in price making a fantastic hobby more out of reach of regular people limiting its reach.

I can even see mainstream consoles going up in price in the middle of a console cycle instead of the traditional downward direction. I fear upgrade fees, poor customer service, and being charged for things that should be free.

Hopefully competition in this industry stays strong and serves as a check on companies forgetting to remember that the gamers that are the reason they are successful in the first place.

Your fears are far more reasonable than his though, because everything you mentioned has already come to pass. It's too bad CMA can't be bothered protect gamers against all the non-competitive issues you brought up.

 

[Clear]

Sony does even more than Microsoft does. Have you shown this same amount of concern when forespoken, FF7:R, Deathloop, or Ghostwire:Tokyo?

Because they are one-off deals, not acquisitions which make changes in perpetuity.

 

[The Alien]

Sony sells a lot of CoD and microtransactions. They are concerned

Read somewhere that the amount of current users considered high risk of switching for COD was around 35-40% of the PS user base.

That is an insane amount of users at risk. No wonder Sony shitting their pants.

 

[Kagey K]

Read somewhere that the amount of current users considered high risk of switching for COD was around 35-40% of the PS user base.

That is an insane amount of users at risk. No wonder Sony shitting their pants.

I don't know if its that high, but evenn if it was say 15 - 20% that would cut thier PS+ subscribers in half, because every single one of those CoD players are going to be subscribed to play online.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Read somewhere that the amount of current users considered high risk of switching for COD was around 35-40% of the PS user base.

That is an insane amount of users at risk. No wonder Sony shitting their pants.

Yea even though its going to remain on PS Microsoft is going to give it away on xbox.

Theyve bought or are buying pubs and devs that were some of Sony big relationships. Activision and Zenimax. Theyve pryed away MLB for free, the commisioner of baseball didnt wakr up one day and decide it needed to be multiplatform.

The strategy for them isnt to sell their product. Its to flip Sonys userbase to xbox.
They dont just want to exist in gaming, they want sonys place in the market. They see a future where the big 3 is PC, xbox, Nintendo.

 

[Sosokrates]

Well usually we fear something that is been showing signs of happening. Game quality dropping means fewer subscribers not more. Why would people pay for a service that has bad games? The reason a service like Game pass is successful is because it offers quality games at a fair price. But of course it is your right to fear something that hasn't happened.

I fear some things too. I fear successful game companies becoming arrogant. I fear console prices and games will keep increasing in price making a fantastic hobby more out of reach of regular people limiting its reach.

I can even see mainstream consoles going up in price in the middle of a console cycle instead of the traditional downward direction. I fear upgrade fees, poor customer service, and being charged for things that should be free.

Hopefully competition in this industry stays strong and serves as a check on companies forgetting to remember that the gamers that are the reason they are successful in the first place.

I would not worry, the market will pick the option which is the best value. And there will always be a fair value option because it's something that people want. The videogame market is very reactive.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Sony appreciates "the CMA's focus on protecting gamers"

Aquí hay Gato encerrado.

It's a Sony cat trap

 

[Hendrick's]

They dont just want to exist in gaming, they want sonys place in the market. They see a future where the big 3 is PC, xbox, Nintendo.

 

[unintelligent orange]

I'm sure they do

indeed. big corporations being honest with their motives cannot be a thing. they gotta make motherfuckers believe they not a greedy corporation who only cares about increasing profits, even though that is always the truth of the matter.

if they was straight up with their bullshit you wouldnt like them. and that may harm the bottom line.

still, people are dumb and let bullshit thrive by supporting it. and businesses get away with dishonesty cause at the end of the day they have the thing u want and u aint gonna pass the thing you want up because the people behind it acting shady.

...until the entire industry is scummy af. oh wait.

guess we dig our own graves.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Sony does even more than Microsoft does. Have you shown this same amount of concern when forespoken, FF7:R, Deathloop, or Ghostwire:Tokyo?

So timed exclusives is the same thing as buying companies?

 

[nial]

At this point I question the sincerity of anyone who references this. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that they have failed to produce anything for their customers this year and the fact that for the best part of a decade prior they were far below expectations for the vast majority of their releases?

Halo Infinite was also GOTY here of all places and we all know how well that accolade has aged. At this point, alomst 12 months later, it's intellectually dishonest to parrot "publisher of the year" when they have reverted straight back to type since.

It's like people who referenced Dragon Age Inquisition as GOTY in 2014 in the years after ffs. "Bioware know what they are doing" I remember people saying in the years after. All while people saying that ignored the fact that they made the "GOTY" during the shittest year for gaming for the best part of a decade. Context and consistency matter.

/rant over

This, they haven't released ANY retail game this year and I'm not even joking, this is a new for a console manufacturer.

 

[modiz]

I don't know what I want more: this deal finally getting through or preferring taking it longer to go through so Sony continues to embarrass themselves even further.

 

[unintelligent orange]

Sony will be doing gamers a favour by letting cod go. Same old shit for like over a decade. Remove EA and ubisoft games too. With those games gone there will room for new games and new ip. Not the same shit we've been playing since 2007.

They made some of their best new IP when they were desperate mode in the first few years of the PS3.

You may be onto something here.

COD is so played out at this point, but its been engineered to be an addictive game psychologically. People are crack addicts for it, and its a known good formula for making money from a business perspective. Activision (and Microsoft by proxy if the acquisition goes through) will milk it for everything they can.

Sony is afraid of the acquisition hurting their business, plain and simple. They will try to make their communications regarding this matter appear outwardly that they care about the gamers but that is only a half truth. Really they dont give a fuck about anything besides their bottom line, they're just trying to appeal to reason. In the end, if it does go through it could mean shittier products in general for the consumers due to the ramifications of a direct competitor among the larger controllers in the videogame industry owning a huge piece of the market. It is unhealthy in this way.

It is true that forcing people to adapt breeds creativity though. I agree that if Sony was to lose COD on their platform that it could force more creativity into the industry on the Playstation side (leading to possibly better games), but it's important to acknowledge the flip side of the coin. Things are seldom completely black or white. It's a possibility Sony (or other competitors) could go ULTRA safe with their decision making afterwards and do the opposite of what is desired.

Although, it is difficult to say how Microsoft will act if they do acquire Activision, that depends on what their true goal is. It would be in their best interest financially, atleast in the short term, to keep COD on other platforms than their own. But watch out for the long term, because Microsoft is playing chess for sure.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Who knew MS is forcing every dev with big budget games to day one them on GP.

If the third party studio thinks day one on GP isn't worth it, then copy what most games do on Xbox or PS+..... dont go on day one sub plan. If $9.99 indies and Game Hunter Sniper X for $60 can figure it out not going on GP, then surely a company making a big game can figure it out too.

Most games arent even on these services. Sell them the normal way and when the sales dry up, do a deal with MS or Sony and put them on sub plans a year or two later.

I dont see gamers waiting to play Elden Ring on sub plan. It sold insane amounts of copies. Make a good game and rake in the sales the normal way selling digital copies and discs first.

I'm talking about Microsoft's first party - their strategy is Day 1 GamePass for AAA. How long can they keep that up?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Where did I say that?

How do you know MS wont port Starfield to PS later. What proof do yo have all games will be forever cut off when the current situation is there's been no difference in game availability? The only difference is the timed deal offer comes from MS, instead of Sony doing it to third parties. MS can just do the typical 1 year timed deal like what they both do to third parties. Maybe MS will do a 24 month deal offer like Forsaken.

And dont counter claim saying timed ports are impossible since Sony has ported their best selling franchises to PC years later. All of the best selling franchises will be ported by year end except Gran Tursimo. Insomniac years ago on Twitter even boldly told a user "Never" when asked if Spiderman will ever come to PC. Look at that, Spiderman and also MM are coming.

You suggested that walling off a product like Forspoken is bigger than anything MS has ever done which....wasn't lining up with reality if we look at what they did with Starfield

And MS only guaranteeing 3 years for something like CoD....well, when that expires, it is absolutely massive and completely incomparable.

 

[Ozzie666]

I'm talking about Microsoft's first party - their strategy is Day 1 GamePass for AAA. How long can they keep that up?

Keep selling COD and some other games at $70 on Playstation to recoup some of those development costs. Let Sony pay for gamepass. I'm partially kidding. But it's a really good reason to keep COD on Playstation.

This would depend on what Microsoft's true goal is, expand or kill off the competition.

 

[modiz]

What happened to the last gen narrative of "go where the games are"?

 

[YukiOnna]

I need protection from Sony over the fact that I have to pay $500 to play FF7R trilogy and FF16 day 1. Can anyone investigate that?
EDIT: Wait it's $700 with the price hike. Nevermind.

 

[sainraja]

I mean EA couldnt wait to get on Gamepass, Ubiosft are bringing more and more games over weekly, while they both have their own Sub services.
That should tell you everything. I wouldnt be surprised if MTX/DLC sales are through the roof on Gamepass when gamers are not having to fork out $60+ for the base game.

I don't remember the announcement of EA Play being added to Game Pass like that. You are the only one I have seen who is pushing that angle. EA Play also started before Game Pass (2014 vs 2017). No reason for EA to deny offering theirs as part of Game Pass when both parties will share revenue from that partnership. I mean, both of them are trying to GROW the service.

And aren't most games that are riddled with MTX free to play anyway (the ones that really rely on those). So how does Game Pass help there?
Agree with you on the DLC thing though. I can see people being open to spending money on DLC but the caveat I see is (and could certainly be wrong here), people will do that for games they might plan on buying later for a discount (does DLC make sense to buy for a game you don't plan on owning? ). All this is moot with first party games they will be releasing in the future (assuming DLC will stay included).

 

[johnjohn]

I guess Sony know their market leader status is pretty much gone after the deal gets done. It's going to be an interesting day when the deal gets approved lol.

 

[Menzies]

This, they haven't released ANY retail game this year and I'm not even joking, this is a new for a console manufacturer.

Not sure of the rules here, does IGN 10/10 Deathloop from first-party Bethesda dropping in 5 days count or not?

 

[Kagey K]

What happened to the last gen narrative of "go where the games are"?

That street

 

[nial]

Not sure of the rules here, does IGN 10/10 Deathloop from first-party Bethesda dropping in 5 days count or not?

Is it getting a retail release?

 

[Kagey K]

Is it getting a retail release?

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/deathloop-xbox-series-x/6520589.p?skuId=6520589

 

[GhostOfTsu]

I need protection from Sony over the fact that I have to pay $500 to play FF7R trilogy and FF16 day 1. Can anyone investigate that?
EDIT: Wait it's $700 with the price hike. Nevermind.

Sony does even more than Microsoft does. Have you shown this same amount of concern when forespoken, FF7:R, Deathloop, or Ghostwire:Tokyo?

What about Starfield, Redfall, Hellblade 2, Next Doom, Stalker 2, ES6??? Spare a thought for those that want to play it.

(FF7, Forspoken, Ghostwire and Deathloop are all on PC before you give me the usual "they're on PC so it's fine")

 

[nial]

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/deathloop-xbox-series-x/6520589.p?skuId=6520589

Oh, it counts then, I must admit I was wrong. Although the fact that their only retail release this year is a port of a game that came out a year earlier on PS5 isn't that much of a better look...

 

[M16]

Sony has responded to the CMA's decision to further investigate the acquisition, and says it "welcomes the announcement."

By giving Microsoft control of Activision games like Call of Duty, this deal would have major negative implications for gamers and the future of the gaming industry

hahaha fuck off

 

[Fess]

If MS went out there and dropped cash on AB to get COD day one on gamepass then hey more power to them, nobody is actually losing.

Yeah that's how I wish they all did it, subscription service bonuses, could add some bonus content that way too.
But I absolutely hate being steering into using a specific hardware. And Sony can go to hell too for their bs timed exclusivity deals.

 

[Kagey K]

hahaha fuck off

I love the at least part. Just like with Destiny it means if a new CoD doesn't come out it'll get extended.

Cry about protecting gamers moar.

This shit got extended until after D2 came out.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/3/1...ves-xbox-release-date-taken-king-rise-of-iron

 

[JordoftheDead]

Protecting gamers would be letting the deal go through so I never have to pay a cent more than the price of an annual Gamepass subscription to play all of the annualised sequels Activision pump out every year.

 

[JordoftheDead]

If only Sony cared to "protect gamers" wallets by not increasing the prices of their games and console. The hypocrisy in this is really funny. Oh look bad Microsoft locking games to their system, yet Sony did it and will continue to do because it suits them. Fuck right off Sony.

Sony PSN prices are appalling.

I brought a physical copy of TLOU to save 35 dollars in Australia.

 

[Fess]

Protecting gamers would be letting the deal go through so I never have to pay a cent more than the price of an annual Gamepass subscription to play all of the annualised sequels Activision pump out every year.

Until they change it so the yearly releases are considered being expansions and don't include them on the Gamepass sub.

 

[Corndog]

What about Starfield, Redfall, Hellblade 2, Next Doom, Stalker 2, ES6??? Spare a thought for those that want to play it.

(FF7, Forspoken, Ghostwire and Deathloop are all on PC before you give me the usual "they're on PC so it's fine")

Xbox owns every single one of those ips except stalker. That's like Xbox complaining about Spider-Man being a ps exclusive. It's not equivalent.
Does Sony own any of the ips I listed? Nope.

 

[Corndog]

So timed exclusives is the same thing as buying companies?

Of course not. That's my point. Thanks for agreeing.

 

[DavidGzz]

I can do it, but he's bigger so....no FAIR! Waaaah. ^^^

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Of course not. That's my point. Thanks for agreeing.

So what MS is doing is worse.

 

[pasterpl]

Everyone is going to increase their prices. You do know there's a thing called inflation and rising development costs right?

Did you really expect video games to remain at $60 price point

Miraculously those increases are not happening in USA.

 

[Kagey K]

I can do it, but he's bigger so....no FAIR! Waaaah. ^^^

In the same breath MS could have gone and made those exclusivity deals at the same time.

Yet if they both walked into the dealership Sony would have paid 30k for the car and MS would have paid 90k for the same car.

No wonder MS thought, I have enough money I might as well buy the dealership instead.

 

[Grechy34]

Every single gamer wants gamers protected. It's good to see Sony on the side of gamers. I hope the CMA does a good job of making sure we are protected all the way through the eventual merger and up until CoD is on Gamepass.

Jim Ryan really got that Sony dick down your throat.

 

[DavidGzz]

Jim Ryan really got that Sony dick down your throat.

He was making a joke but you went balls deep with your attempted burn. Hnnnng