Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


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Pipe dream for MS.
Would be a huge momentum, if MS can pull that. Considering that the odds are 0.00001%
Is it though?

What is interesting is that we have recently seen the CMA provisionally say they can't figure out numbers to make a case for a $2T company taking away CoD, despite they would have bought Nintendo and Sony outright already - instead- by hostile takeover if it wasn't for them being protected Japanese companies to control all of the console/PC gaming space, and we've had lots of discussion in here about degrading Minecraft.

We haven't however discussed (AFAIK) what would happen to users switching with CoD if the day Microsoft released their next console they were able to make CoD exclusive and also publicly did the same with Minecraft and with Elder Scrolls 6 simultaneously.

Foreclosing simultaneously with 3 important - 2 essential inputs - at the same time that they've acquired by chipping away acquisition by acquisition is a completely different risk and who would even thought those three IPs could all be acquired by the same company while still at maximum relevance?

Thinking about that, if the CMA don't block this deal with those inputs on the table, then it seems even the CMA/EC regulation is woefully inadequate to block $2T companies' avenues to anti-competitive actions
 
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Is it though?

What is interesting is that we have recently seen the CMA provisionally say they can't figure out numbers to make a case for a $2T company taking away CoD,
They don't see the financial incentive to take CoD away from Playstation. That decision in isolation results in lost revenue of over a billion, probably multiple billions.

despite they would have bought Nintendo and Sony outright already - instead- by hostile takeover if it wasn't for them being protected Japanese companies to control all of the console/PC gaming space, and we've had lots of discussion in here about degrading Minecraft.
It isn't because they are protected Japanese companies. It's because mergers or acquisitions of platform holders would be considered horizontal. Much higher issues of anti-competitive effects. Way harder to get past regulators. In fact, Microsoft tried to buy Nintendo before the original Xbox came out and it didn't happen because Nintendo laughed them out of the room, not because they were a protected company.

We haven't however discussed (AFAIK) what would happen to users switching with CoD if the day Microsoft released their next console they were able to make CoD exclusive and also publicly did the same with Minecraft and with Elder Scrolls 6 simultaneously.
There is no evidence to suggest Microsoft would make Minecraft exclusive. In fact there are 10 years of evidence that points to the opposite. Maybe there is a case to say they would make a next gen version for Xbox but not Playstation, but they wouldn't stop selling the PS5 version and as long as PS6 is backwards compatible, the effects of not having a PS6 version wouldn't sway a large percentage of players.

My guess is taking Minecraft from Playstation would similarly result in lost revenue of billions.

Foreclosing simultaneously with 3 important - 2 essential inputs - at the same time that they've acquired by chipping away acquisition by acquisition is a completely different risk and who would even thought those three IPs could all be acquired by the same company while still at maximum relevance?
Compounding effects are more likely to result in a large marketshare shift. However the risk of such a move is large. For their largest games, ones you call essential inputs, ones that generate a large chunk of their revenue, to cut that revenue in half... probably more than half, in hopes you get enough new users to make up that lost revenue, that's high risk.

It's not only risky because of lost revenue, such a move would open up the door to losing relevance. Such a drastic drop in player base leaves the door open for something to take it's place. Losing the Playstation userbase but also damaging your IP's impact.
Thinking about that, if the CMA don't block this deal with those inputs on the table, then it seems even the CMA/EC regulation is woefully inadequate to block $2T companies' avenues to anti-competitive actions
But.. lets say it works. They make CoD exclusive, they make Minecraft exclusive, they make some 3rd party agreements to have Fifa or Fortnite exclusive for a window. And all these actions absolutely decimate Playstation. Regulators like the FTC hold the right to undo acquistions. I'm sure they'd pursue that action if these actions resulted in the foreclosure of their strongest competitor. So on top of the risk of exclusivity resulting in lost revenue of billions, there is also the risk of that strategy being so successful that it is deemed anti-competitive and Microsoft's gaming division gets broken up.

More likely, they'll slowly shift marketshare over by making Gamepass a great value. Leaving their top money makers everywhere, and selectively making must have single player games exclusive (TES 6, DOOM, Avowed, etc.)

That slow drip will be less risky and more effective in the long run I think.
 
I don't think there's any real reason for MS to buy a Japanese company unless it's specifically Sony or Nintendo.

The more likely next acquisition targets would be EA or Take 2. If MS can deny FIFA + Madden or GTA from Playstation then it's likely Game Over for Sony.
MS has no say what platforms FIFA or Madden get released on, regardless of owning the development studios or not, those are licensed games. Why do you think MLB is on Xbox too now?
 
They don't see the financial incentive to take CoD away from Playstation. That decision in isolation results in lost revenue of over a billion, probably multiple billions.


It isn't because they are protected Japanese companies. It's because mergers or acquisitions of platform holders would be considered horizontal. Much higher issues of anti-competitive effects. Way harder to get past regulators. In fact, Microsoft tried to buy Nintendo before the original Xbox came out and it didn't happen because Nintendo laughed them out of the room, not because they were a protected company.
Laughed out of the room or not, without Sony and Nintendo's protected status, there is the potential for enough shares to be bought to take - at least Sony - by a hostile takeover, and as you rightfully stated, they already wanted to supplant Nintendo at day 1 of entering the market to make it a quick exercise getting it to the two horse race, but with mascot Mario along with a marketing deal with Sega IIRC via Shenmue etc.
There is no evidence to suggest Microsoft would make Minecraft exclusive. In fact there are 10 years of evidence that points to the opposite. Maybe there is a case to say they would make a next gen version for Xbox but not Playstation, but they wouldn't stop selling the PS5 version and as long as PS6 is backwards compatible, the effects of not having a PS6 version wouldn't sway a large percentage of players.

My guess is taking Minecraft from Playstation would similarly result in lost revenue of billions.


Compounding effects are more likely to result in a large marketshare shift. However the risk of such a move is large. For their largest games, ones you call essential inputs, ones that generate a large chunk of their revenue, to cut that revenue in half... probably more than half, in hopes you get enough new users to make up that lost revenue, that's high risk.

It's not only risky because of lost revenue, such a move would open up the door to losing relevance. Such a drastic drop in player base leaves the door open for something to take it's place. Losing the Playstation userbase but also damaging your IP's impact.

But.. lets say it works. They make CoD exclusive, they make Minecraft exclusive, they make some 3rd party agreements to have Fifa or Fortnite exclusive for a window. And all these actions absolutely decimate Playstation. Regulators like the FTC hold the right to undo acquistions. I'm sure they'd pursue that action if these actions resulted in the foreclosure of their strongest competitor. So on top of the risk of exclusivity resulting in lost revenue of billions, there is also the risk of that strategy being so successful that it is deemed anti-competitive and Microsoft's gaming division gets broken up.

More likely, they'll slowly shift marketshare over by making Gamepass a great value. Leaving their top money makers everywhere, and selectively making must have single player games exclusive (TES 6, DOOM, Avowed, etc.)

That slow drip will be less risky and more effective in the long run I think.
The link I've used previously(https://www.clearyantitrustwatch.co...threshold-for-review-of-cma-merger-decisions/)

Comparison with the EU General Court

The EU's courts, the General Court and Court of Justice, have historically subjected European Commission merger decisions to more rigorous review than the CAT in respect of CMA decisions, and have overturned around 20% of the prohibition decisions rendered by the European Commission since the European Merger Regulation came into force.

Most recently, on 28 May, the General Court in Three/O2 overturned the European Commission's prohibition of a transaction that would have combined two of the four UK mobile telecoms providers.[19]

The facts are complex, but there are two clear differences of approach between review of this decision by the General Court and judicial review before the CAT: (i) the European Commission was held to a higher standard of proof (namely a "strong probability" standard) than has been required of the CMA, and (ii) the General Court broadly applied a "manifest error" standard of review, while the CMA continues to apply a strict irrationality standard.
The CMA only have to work on a probabilistic determination, with a much lower evidence threshold than the "strong probability" model the EC has to work to according to the quote above.

At the start of a new generation last-gen software is still selling so the risk of lost revenue to Microsoft is tiny on a platform with 0% market share and 0 install base for those three inputs at day 1. The evidence of Minecraft is only valid for while they didn't own CoD, and with Bethesda titles TES6 is as exclusive - withstanding pre-acquisiton contracts such as Deathloop - as all other Zenimax current gen titles on Series S/X - until Microsoft commit otherwise - so all previous evidence means nothing, unless it indicates more likely for foreclosure, and current info of Minecraft having pre-release RT features on Series S/X confirmed, but nothing for PS5 actually increase the probability of no PS5 version of Minecraft coming with parity.

The three titles are all rather different, and could all be described as diametrically (tria-metrically if you get what I mean) different to each of the others, meaning the percentage of switching users would be the sum of the three - prior to a tipping point - so if each took 5-10% a 15-30% switch at launch could easily reach a tipping point based on the previous info from the CMA IIRC.
 
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MS has no say what platforms FIFA or Madden get released on, regardless of owning the development studios or not, those are licensed games. Why do you think MLB is on Xbox too now?
But EA no longer has the Fifa license and it isn't clear if the other licenses they use for EA Sports FC would have the same stipulation attached.
 
Microsoft isn't going to buy another big publisher people. Not for a really long time.
But they wouldn't need to, they could just drop $10B on marketing deals with remaining players (EA or T2) to foreclose with CoD, Minecraft, TES, EA Sports FC, BF, GTA and would be successful at the start of a generation with the masses.
 
But they wouldn't need to, they could just drop $10B on marketing deals with remaining players (EA or T2) to foreclose with CoD, Minecraft, TES, EA Sports FC, BF, GTA and would be successful at the start of a generation with the masses.

Why stop there, they could also make $10 bn deals with Nintendo to foreclose Zelda. Ya need to relax lol.
 
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Why stop there, they could also make $10 bn deals with Nintendo to foreclose Zelda. Ya need to relax lol.
At that point they would have such control that the $10B would be coming back via hiked subs - raised prices as is the fear in any CMA SLC description - I wasn't guestimating numbers without attributing the source to somewhere.

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That's funny if you think Nintendo would value Zelda so low to agree to that :)
 
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At that point they would have such control that the $10B would be coming back via hiked subs - raised prices as is the fear in any CMA SLC description - I wasn't guestimating numbers without attributing the source to somewhere.

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That's funny if you think Nintendo would value Zelda so low to agree to that :)

PlayStations operating profit is like 2.5 billion. Xbox's margins are not disclosed but their business model is the same as Playstation only with lower revenue. Say it's equal. Activision and Microsoft combined are going to hit 5 billion in operating profit. There's practically zero chance that Microsoft spends two to three years worth of profit for recurring exclusivity deals. It's cheaper to try and buy more.
 
PlayStations operating profit is like 2.5 billion. Xbox's margins are not disclosed but their business model is the same as Playstation only with lower revenue. Say it's equal. Activision and Microsoft combined are going to hit 5 billion in operating profit. There's practically zero chance that Microsoft spends two to three years worth of profit for recurring exclusivity deals. It's cheaper to try and buy more.
I think you are missing the point that this would be a one time foreclosure strategy to raise prices via Xbox and Windows PC being the only high-end gaming platforms left.

We've already seen this gen Microsoft tried to double the price of Live - only kept at bay because of the competition that PlayStation brings - and at the end of the day, if all the consoles died from a Microsoft foreclosure strategy they would end up the main beneficiary via Windows licenses and Windows store revenues, along with gamepass/Xcloud/Live.

Trying to base an argument of how the maths add up for Microsoft for anything they've done or do in console gaming is pointless when the maths have never made sense other than as a vanguard rounding error cost to maintain Windows position, to avoid being displaced by a TV set-top box like a PlayStation - which was Gate's original reason for giving the green light to Xbox to begin with.
 
The CMA only have to work on a probabilistic determination, with a much lower evidence threshold than the "strong probability" model the EC has to work to according to the quote above.
I think you're mixing up appealing the CMA decision with the CMA's decision itself.

Appealing is easier in the EU courts because for the EU to prohibit a merger/acquisition they need strong evidence to suggest anti-competitive effects.

Where as appealing the CMA decision, is much harder, because the party appealing has to prove irrationality. (Procedurally impropriety or something else)

At the start of a new generation last-gen software is still selling so the risk of lost revenue to Microsoft is tiny on a platform with 0% market share and 0 install base for those three inputs at day 1. The evidence of Minecraft is only valid for while they didn't own CoD, and with Bethesda titles TES6 is as exclusive - withstanding pre-acquisiton contracts such as Deathloop - as all other Zenimax current gen titles on Series S/X - until Microsoft commit otherwise - so all previous evidence means nothing, unless it indicates more likely for foreclosure, and current info of Minecraft having pre-release RT features on Series S/X confirmed, but nothing for PS5 actually increase the probability of no PS5 version of Minecraft coming with parity.

The three titles are all rather different, and could all be described as diametrically (tria-metrically if get what I mean) different to each of the others, meaning the percentage of switching users would be the sum of the three - prior to a tipping point - so if each took 5-10% a 15-30% switch at launch could easily reach a tipping point based on the previous info from the CMA IIIIRC.
I understand your point. Isolated decisions have less of an impact on marketshare, where as multiple decisions made can compound the effects.

You say Microsoft keeping Minecraft exclusive only makes sense before they own CoD. But I would say where is the evidence for that statement? The CMA's probalistic approach would also ask that question. They would need to find your scenario more likely than not.
 
I think you are missing the point that this would be a one time foreclosure strategy to raise prices via Xbox and Windows PC being the only high-end gaming platforms left.

We've already seen this gen Microsoft tried to double the price of Live - only kept at bay because of the competition that PlayStation brings - and at the end of the day, if all the consoles died from a Microsoft foreclosure strategy they would end up the main beneficiary via Windows licenses and Windows store revenues, along with gamepass/Xcloud/Live.

Trying to base an argument of how the maths add up for Microsoft for anything they've done or do in console gaming is pointless when the maths have never made sense other than as a vanguard rounding error cost to maintain Windows position, to avoid being displaced by a TV set-top box like a PlayStation - which was Gate's original reason for giving the green light to Xbox to begin with.

Did you just learn the word foreclosure in this thread. The strategy would be an idiotic waste of resources. Microsoft bought Activision because it achieves it's goals while being profitable. Following that up with throwing 10 billion dollars to try and get people to move away from playstation makes no sense. Microsoft didn't suddenly become a big company. It could have paid tens of billions at any time to do the same thing at the start of the generation.

Ten billion is an enormous amount of money. It's like 5% of the entire video game market. It's over half of take two's market cap. I'm open to see how you came to that number.
 
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Did you just learn the word foreclosure in this thread. The strategy would be an idiotic waste of resources. Microsoft bought Activision because it achieves it's goals while being profitable. Following that up with throwing 10 billion dollars to try and get people to move away from playstation makes no sense.

Yet those zeni games not present on PS, including Redfall and Starfield PS versions cancelled midway through development, contradicts your rational assessment of how a normal business operates.

MS isn't a business like that. Neither are any of the big Techs. They're not there to make "healthy" 10% or even 30% returns - they're there to dominate and make 300% returns having destroyed the market place and competition.

And it's you, me and all content consumers who'll pay for them to make that money.
 
Goodluck to find tvs and smartphones that could storage and run games 😂
Just because it is an option for a service doesn't mean it has to be possible for anything streaming the service... just ensure anything that is being streamed to an xbox, pc, ps5 etc can also download an appropriate native version. No biggie.
 
Goodluck to find tvs and smartphones that could storage and run games 😂
You can't run them on a potato. This is more for other PC/Console subscription providers who want the ability to download ABK games with their service.

Yet those zeni games not present on PS, including Redfall and Starfield PS versions cancelled midway through development, contradicts your rational assessment of how a normal business operates.

MS isn't a business like that. Neither are any of the big Techs. They're not there to make "healthy" 10% or even 30% returns - they're there to dominate and make 300% returns having destroyed the market place and competition.

And it's you, me and all content consumers who'll pay for them to make that money.

They paid $100M to secure tomb raider exclusivity for a year. All so they could combat UC4. That kind of money was enough to fund a decent game. I doubt they saw that money return in any way nor expected it to. They have a real "beat the competition" drive.

That may not seem like a lot when talking about the type of money they are throwing around now that go into the billions but to put things into perspective SE sold TR and 50 IPs including Deus Ex, Legacy of Kain, etc for $300M. $100M would have been irrational for what they gained from it I'm sure but their mind was set on beating PS and not so much on making a profit from that deal that stopped the game coming to PS for a year.
 
You can't run them on a potato. This is more for other PC/Console subscription providers who want the ability to download ABK games with their service.



They paid $100M to secure tomb raider exclusivity for a year. All so they could combat UC4. That kind of money was enough to fund a decent game. I doubt they saw that money return in any way nor expected it to. They have a real "beat the competition" drive.

That may not seem like a lot when talking about the type of money they are throwing around now that go into the billions but to put things into perspective SE sold TR and 50 IPs including Deus Ex, Legacy of Kain, etc for $300M. $100M would have been irrational for what they gained from it I'm sure but their mind was set on beating PS and not so much on making a profit from that deal that stopped the game coming to PS for a year.
It will depend more on third-party stores/services than on microsoft... GeForce Now is working through game purchase? Or does it have an internal shop? And those companies that do not have an internal store? Should Microsoft finance the management of third-party companies out of its own pocket and maybe hire and pay employees to take care of the store?
 
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Yep this has been a sticking point for the EU for a while, I've referenced it before:

  • It "costs less" but you own nothing

The final point above (erosion of ownership for consumers) in particular is under the microscope by the EU and has been for some time.

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What's the point if BYOG providers are literally allowing to play games that you bought in ... PC stores (like Steam or Ubisoft+).

I'm not understanding this.. Gamepass you can download all the games that are available to play on Cloud. For other services such as GFN you own the game?!

Because the idea is to prevent a scenario in the future where ownership is not an option and the only way to access particular gaming content is via a cloud service, in particular one tied to a subscription.

These rulings are always forward thinking, and because of how things have panned out in the music and TV/movie industries (which they aren't too pleased about) it was always likely that they were going to take the necessary steps to prevent the same thing from happening in the gaming industry where the opportunities arise.
 
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Yep this has been a sticking point for the EU for a while, I've referenced it before:



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Because the idea is to prevent a scenario in the future where ownership is not an option and the only way to access particular gaming content is via a cloud service, in particular one tied to a subscription.

These rulings are always forward thinking, and because of how things have panned out in the music and TV/movie industries (which they aren't too pleased about) it was always likely that they were going to take the necessary steps to prevent the same thing from happening in the gaming industry where the opportunities arise.
As i said with the cloud you don't have to buy a console or a pc...if you don't want to buy a console or a pc this mean that your only option and access is via cloud...so is up to samsung or whatever to build phones and tvs capable to run a game
 
As i said with the cloud you don't have to buy a console or a pc...if you don't want to buy a console or a pc this mean that your only option and access is via cloud...so is up to samsung or whatever to build phones and tvs capable to run a game

Yes but this is about ensuring the consumer still has the right and option to download and/or purchase the game even if cloud might be their only option (or preference 🤮) at the time.
 
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Yes but this is about ensuring the consumer still has the right and option to download and/or purchase the game even if cloud might be their only option (or preference 🤮) at the time.
But is not Microsoft fault if samsung can't/don't want to create tv with gaming hardware...
 
Thats got nothing to do with it. Do you not understand the word option?

Microsoft are the ones providing the service are they not?
Sure

"Because the idea is to prevent a scenario in the future where ownership is not an option and the only way to access particular gaming content is via a cloud service, in particular one tied to a subscription."

If someone don't have a console or pc is not an option..the only access for him/her to a game is via cloud via subscription service
 
Sure

"Because the idea is to prevent a scenario in the future where ownership is not an option and the only way to access particular gaming content is via a cloud service, in particular one tied to a subscription."

If someone don't have a console or pc is not an option..the only access for him/her to a game is via cloud via subscription service

This isn't complicated.

They still want to ensure the consumer has the right to download/purchase either at the time or some point in the future. That's regardless of the hardware that individual has at the time or intends to have at any point in the future.

It is about ensuring consumer rights and options are not eroded in the event that Microsoft take control of all these IP and then decide to try and make the games streaming only at some point in the future (with this, they can't). This closes out any potential loopholes and and it ensures consumers are protected.
 
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