Insane Metal
Member
The part with trees indeed looks much closer to reality in GT. Too bad the shadow pop-ins break the immersion. They should've fixed this.
Forza Motorsport (XSX) vs Gran Turismo 7 (PS5) Graphics Comparison (Up: Video in OP replaced as IGN one was not fit for purpose)
- Thread starter gokurho
- Start date
The part with trees indeed looks much closer to reality in GT. Too bad the shadow pop-ins break the immersion. They should've fixed this.
Unknown?
Member
In a technical sense, but in visuals, not necessarily true. This is the first Forza with good looking foliage despite them having 3D trees for a long time. Forza 5-7 the trees were all flat on lighting which hurt the look(geometry wise they were fine). This is the same for GT 6 and below. GT Sport had better looking 2D trees than those older Forza games with light filtering and that realistic sheen leaves get on a bright day. Now they've really stepped it up but what GT has done with 2D trees is pretty good if you ask me.
Negotiator101
Member
Absolutely but 3D will produce a more realistic result.
DJ12
Member
Ouch.
I think they are wrong about GT7 having raytracing in game, it runs mostly north of 60 in replays according to my tvs vrr counter, knock that res down to 1440p and it'll probably never drop below 60.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
This is a very good video!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man, come on Heis you're better than this. You're legitimately making a comparison about two completely different renderings of the same geographical location where there are TONS of differences in where buildings, billboards, side barriers etc are placed and you want to use those couple of pictures of different tree renderings.
My "problem" is that you're, and I think intentionally, using a dumb/juvenile argument to propagate a comparison by comparing literal apples to oranges here.
--
Alright, let's play it your way then ..
1. GT7 has flat PS3 style soupy mountains here where Forza is drawing actual geometry and crowds.
.
GT7 has lesser detailed barriers on the left and right and it's also missing a blimp.
Forza is drawing tons more geometry, farther draw distance on the hills and an actual 3D crowd here where GT7 looks barren by comparison.
Easy there champ, you don't have to go at it this hard
I'm just going to repost what I had inserted earlier into the thread:
Forza and GT have always historically been like this.
Forza was always aiming for more technically advanced rendering options, and as a result they would be using pretty impressive technology whenever they released at the expense of framerate (for example, Forza 1 on Xbox was using much higher quality lighting and actual shaders compared to Gran Turismo 3/4, but ran at 30fps instead of GT's 60fps), but Gran Turismo always beat Forza at actual art direction. Forza 1 looks pretty dated and not all that amazing now, because the technology advanced so rapidly. GT3/4 ends up looking more realisitic because of art design choices that stood the test of time.
For comparison:
Its always been like this, GT ends up aging better because of things like more subdued color pallets and focusing on how the car interacts with the lighting of the tracks, etc.
The new Forza is basically the same as ever, all those comparison screenshots/videos just show that despite Gran Turismo 7 using more primitive methods to render the visuals, it actually ends up looking closer to reality due to things like color grading and lighting on the cars. Forza looks very good, no doubt, but in a lot of the footage I've seen, it has this weirdly washed out look with a lot of unrealistic attempts at making things look realistic (for example, the rain).
GT7 only has raytracing in replays, which you have to set to the quality mode to see. You likely have it set to performance which turns off RT in replays and uncaps the framerate to 60+.
Sebmugi
Member
Well, what was supposed to happen happened.. I put my xsx in NZ mode to test a little in advance..And I don't even want to shoot the ambulance anymore...
playing pad ok it's not that unpleasant but then the rest omfg
mg: As soon as we switch to photo mode and take a closer look it's a disaster...
GT7 is light years ahead in car modeling and material rendering, the quality of the RT is is the same.In short, excluding ms lately is just not possible..
playing pad ok it's not that unpleasant but then the rest omfg
mg: As soon as we switch to photo mode and take a closer look it's a disaster... GT7 is light years ahead in car modeling and material rendering, the quality of the RT is is the same.In short, excluding ms lately is just not possible..
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Last edited:
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Same with COD how I have seen some people over the last year or so say this streamer moves much faster than others
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2Z1qdA1osm8
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Just check his channel, that should tell you enough. And i made a Lemans comparison as well with the same lighting and car (on pc ofcourse).
Tripolygon
Banned
You are wrong. They both have "3D" trees, well a mixture of 2D and 3D trees based of distance from camera. Both have 3D stems, but the leaves are 2D. in Forza they use the classic billboard technique, a bunch of 2D flat textures arranged to give the illusion of depth and 3D but if you look at it from a certain angle the illusion fails you can see all the flat 2D textures. GT7 uses 2D forward facing sprite which always orient themselves to face the camera. If you are driving fast, you won't notice but if you move the camera slowly you notice the sprite orient themselves to the camera. The difference is in GT7 leaves react to lighting while Forza does not.
Forza
Closer look, you can see the flat leaves.
GT7
Which you prefer is up to you but both games use a mixture of 2D and 3D trees.
This is demonstrably false. Like has been shown by the comparison. Some things are better and worse in both games.
Yes, there is clearly room to argue here like above. They both use 2D leaf textures but differently. One is a billboard while the other is self-orienting sprite. One simulates light passing through the leaf while the other does not.
Depends on what you mean.
In replay mode? Yes, you can absolutely say that as GT7 RT in replay mode is more advanced than what you see in FM8 in the replay mode.
In gameplay RT reflection is very limited to car reflecting cars and at a very limited range and yes that is better than GT7 car on car reflection
FM8 also uses screen space reflection and cube map for everything else at 30fps while in GT7 screen space reflection run at 60fps except for cockpit view which runs at 30fps as well as cube map.
It's so easy to say RT better than no RT but how its applied matters.
I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about here. There is no evidence of light bouncing or indirect lighting of track and trees. A bounced light picks up the color of the object it is bouncing from and illuminates the surrounding i've not seen a single material that shows or says that.
I find majority of people arguing in this thread are doing so without any technical understanding of what they are arguing about. There is nothing wrong in preferring one over another but to say one is better with so much certainty yet being entirely wrong like claiming Forza has 3D trees while GT7 doesn't is entirely wrong.
Last edited:
still you know what beats geametry and details? lighting GT7 lighting is unmatched
Man, come on Heis you're better than this. You're legitimately making a comparison about two completely different renderings of the same geographical location where there are TONS of differences in where buildings, billboards, side barriers etc are placed and you want to use those couple of pictures of different tree renderings.
My "problem" is that you're, and I think intentionally, using a dumb/juvenile argument to propagate a comparison by comparing literal apples to oranges here.
--
Alright, let's play it your way then ..
1. GT7 has flat PS3 style soupy mountains here where Forza is drawing actual geometry and crowds.
.
GT7 has lesser detailed barriers on the left and right and it's also missing a blimp.
Forza is drawing tons more geometry, farther draw distance on the hills and an actual 3D crowd here where GT7 looks barren by comparison.
Easy there champ, you don't have to go at it this hard
They look virtually identical here. Forza is a bit brighter but that could just be an artistic choice. i see barely any difference in GI light bounce. Bizarre.
Forza looks fantastic at times, but stuff like this should not be happening when you have two identical games across two different generations. Turn10 should have done these comparisons themselves and gone back to the drawing board to add more detail to their game. this is just a bad look.
P.S I wonder if having more cars on track for these comparisons will tilt this in Forza's favor. i cant help but think this is a disingenuous comparison based on other comparisons we have seen so far.
There is just something CG about Forza that doesnt come across with no cars on track.
this comparison with driveclub really opened my eyes.
Its simple, Forza visual language and audio were made with a cinematic visual style while Gran Turismo 7 is made with a realistic visual styla and audio (although cars still sound horrible)
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Except that it's massively in favour of Forza having more better trackside detail.
Yeah GT7 has some better bits.
Insane Metal
Member
Some do, some don't. Some cars sound awesome in GT, especially in cockpit view. A favorite of mine is the BMW M3.
Unknown?
Member
Not massive, but it does lean towards that. GT7 has older tracks made for GT Sport, the ones made for GT7 are much better quality.
Negotiator101
Member
looks fantastic, will try it later.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Same. NZ trick is already working for folks but it's a work day and I can wait till tomorrow morning to get hands on.
Everything
SlimySnake
and
Turk1993
and the various other comparisons or videos have posted is mouth watering from a technical point of view, even if I'm not the biggest fan of Sim racers.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
What are the new ones other than Watkins Glen ?
Unknown?
Member
Trial Mountain is one. Road Atlanta, forgot the full name. Also Highway 1 Grand Valley Speedway. Might be another but I'm not sure.
Last edited:
any game with motion blur at 24FPS looks great
I think thats the only time Forza uses RTGI or some sort of it
Negotiator101
Member
That tree comparison GT7 comes off a distance second there mate, looks terrible viewed up close. It's made up of flat 2D (multiple ones) to give the impression of a 3D image at least that's what it looks like but the illusion falls apart when viewed up close.You are wrong. They both have "3D" trees, well a mixture of 2D and 3D trees based of distance from camera. Both have 3D stems, but the leaves are 2D. in Forza they use the classic billboard technique, a bunch of 2D flat textures arranged to give the illusion of depth and 3D but if you look at it from a certain angle the illusion fails you can see all the flat 2D textures. GT7 uses 2D forward facing sprite which always orient themselves to face the camera. If you are driving fast, you won't notice but if you move the camera slowly you notice the sprite orient themselves to the camera. The difference is in GT7 leaves react to lighting while Forza does not.
Forza
Closer look, you can see the flat leaves.
GT7
Which you prefer is up to you but both games use a mixture of 2D and 3D trees.
This is demonstrably false. Like has been shown by the comparison. Some things are better and worse in both games.
Yes, there is clearly room to argue here like above. They both use 2D leaf textures but differently. One is a billboard while the other is self-orienting sprite. One simulates light passing through the leaf while the other does not.
Depends on what you mean.
In replay mode? Yes, you can absolutely say that as GT7 RT in replay mode is more advanced than what you see in FM8 in the replay mode.
In gameplay RT reflection is very limited to car reflecting cars and at a very limited range and yes that is better than GT7 car on car reflection
FM8 also uses screen space reflection and cube map for everything else at 30fps while in GT7 screen space reflection run at 60fps except for cockpit view which runs at 30fps as well as cube map.
It's so easy to say RT better than no RT but how its applied matters.
I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about here. There is no evidence of light bouncing or indirect lighting of track and trees. A bounced light picks up the color of the object it is bouncing from and illuminates the surrounding i've not seen a single material that shows or says that.
I find majority of people arguing in this thread are doing so without any technical understanding of what they are arguing about. There is nothing wrong in preferring one over another but to say one is better with so much certainty yet being entirely wrong like claiming Forza has 3D trees while GT7 doesn't is entirely wrong.
Assetto Corsa modded is still unmatchedI swear the weather and night time races are giving me major DriveClub vibes. Is Turn10 a uk studio? Is it possible that they hired some of the Evo studios guys? I noticed some DC esque windshield raindrop accumulation as the wipers work. It's not as elaborate as DC and you dont see the rain streaking through the driver side windows like you see in DC, but the rain effects on the windshield and on the camera in chase cam are fantastic.
And I made these videos from an outdated graphics mod version
Last edited:
Unknown?
Member
None of them look good up close and you just said what he was saying.
Tripolygon
Banned
Right? Lmao
Negotiator101
Member
Any information on some of these visual issues being fixed with a patch before the official release?Same. NZ trick is already working for folks but it's a work day and I can wait till tomorrow morning to get hands on.
Everything
Negotiator101
Member
The FM ones look significantly better, do you not agree? he said the trees are fully 3D in GT7 they are not, so no I didn't say what he was saying, read again.
Unknown?
Member
You read it wrong, he was saying neither had fully 3D trees and that they both aren't good but different ways of achieving similar results.
FM don't look significantly better to me, at least not zoomed in.
Last edited:
Negotiator101
Member
He's wrong, read again.
Unknown?
Member
He never said they were fully 3D in GT7.
"Both have 3D stems, but the leaves are 2D. in Forza they use the classic billboard technique, a bunch of 2D flat textures arranged to give the illusion of depth and 3D but if you look at it from a certain angle the illusion fails you can see all the flat 2D textures. GT7 uses 2D forward facing sprite which always orient themselves to face the camera"
Negotiator101
Member
Listen he set himself up with his own comparison, anyone with eyes can see the trees in Forza are far superior. I can't even believe he even posted those screens with how terrible the trees in GT7 look when viewed up close ( they look great while driving and that's all that matters). Also let me say that given GT7 came out over a year ago and it holds up against FM this well is testament to the artistry of Polyphony, but on a technical level Forza is ahead.
BigLee74
Member
Awful! Where's the trees?
DJ12
Member
No, 120hz more graphics/raytracing mode.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Meh, it's just not as vibrant and cool and shiny as its competitor which looks objectively better because I prefer having more vibrancy, coolness & shine! You can barely see any reflection, rt my ass!
Last edited:
Tripolygon
Banned
You have shown yourself time and time again to be one of the worst and least informed posters on this board. Forza is not superior to GT7 they both use a mix of 2D and 3D trees but in different ways to achieve the same illusion of 3D.
Do you know how to read?
I am literally pointing out how each method works and fails when you look closely using those screens.
The screens are to demonstrate how they each fail when you look closely. Coming out a year later does not make one better than the other when they largely rely on the same technologies to achieve their visuals.
This is you.
vs
This is what I literally typed.
Instead of admitting you read that wrong you double down on your wrong assertion.
Last edited:
Insane Metal
Member
how do you make these gifs?
Insane Metal
Member
Capture video on PS5 - Transfer MP4 file to USB drive - Capture a small section of it and resize it on PS or other editing software
ps5 allows you to make gifs?
GrayDock
Member
Videos like that make me think in buying a wheel, and I already have a PSVR2... I can't justify a controller for a single game, but I have 2 arcades and a pad for SF6 and a HOTAS for AC, so...
Crayon
Member
PS=PhotoShop
DJ12
Member
The trees are probably included in GT7's track scanning.
Forza's are just added to make it look good and to give its fans their usual bulletpoint in the discussion.
I've yet to see a race track full of LED billboards at eye level, or trees hanging over the track.
I've not got a problem with either approach really, but one is clearly going for realism the other for a more arcade approach.
Even in a small gif you can clearly see that the trackside detail is shit. Not to take away anything from the rest which is top notch.Awful! Where's the trees?