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[sinnergy]

the ray-tracing in forza was not worth it(on xsx at least) ......................judging from the pics posted here

In my opinion it is , and from pics … those could be doctored .I play the game . RT OA helps to ground everything, and the RT reflections is a nice addition.

The engine is ready for the future , sometimes there is more than only visuals , but refactoring a engine , deadlines, stakeholders , opinions and whatnot , now they have to tweak some aspects, like some type of weather lighting, sunny days look kinda flat ( but also in real life) and look at their procedural textures on the road. And if they manage their car shader.

 

[sinnergy]

Serious question: does this not get tiring? Halo Infinite, Bleeding Edge, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza Motorsport ...

A racing game is a perfect fit in my opinion .. because tracks are the same with each release , new cars can be added, tracks can be adjusted . Graphics can be updated. The game could go on endlessly.

 

[Darsxx82]

As expected a whole bunch of arguing nothing and not a single image to show these alleged bigger differences in Benzys shots if he had used performance RT.

The typical way to divert attention?

It's Watkins Glen not Hatkins that you keep repeating. Those aren't 400 zoom either that's the players car cropped to aid in highlighting the difference,

Which means it's zoom. LOL

it's the entire track at the start line, a tarmack shot like Benzys. You can avoid all this by just recreating Benzys shot to highlight whatever you feel is 'not equivalent', 1:1 or faithful.

No proof? I have posted a video with screenshots that demonstrate the big difference between the assets of performance mode vs RT mode. That you are ignoring this and want to make believe that they do not exist is your business.

The funny thing is that you are trying to make it believe that these differences do not exist between modes (the comparison would be honest) at the same time that you are trying to make it believe that the PC version is a radically different game on a visual level (of course then the comparison is not honest nor useful). That is, the narrative.

That said, I repeat again no matter how much you try to distort what I say and divert attention. It is not the comparison to what I point out, it is the conclusions in absolute terms about the visual appearance and technology Of both games that some were drawing solely based on it.

That is, if that comparison seems appropriate to you, then one with PC captures should also be if what you are looking at is 1:1 with a console or very difficult to distinguish except for zoom.

Even if this were true (it's not)

Its true, and you are near a single click in the video I show to you.

, so you think comparing 30fps to 60fps mode is the more equivalent, 1:1 thing to do? Got it. Or you could be more reasonable and just accept Benzy's shots were a fair comparison in equivalent 60fps performance modes as he stated.

And here we go again....

Don't you realize that your answers always end up distorting what I said, why is that? ahh, the narrative, of course

No, the comparison with the quality mode at 30fps would not be more honest nor worse. I have repeated to you 1000 times that I do not criticize the validity of the comparison, I point out the mistake of drawing conclusions in absolute terms from the visual and technological reality of both games based on it and for the reasons that I have explained to you 1000 times already.

There is no honest or less honest comparison in this case. What there may be are useful comparisons to draw specific conclusions about the technology and visuals of both games. That's why I said that for many aspects compared, it was even useful to use PC screenshots. And this is simply because there is an RT performance mode that at the level of visual assets is better on most categories and also includes key visuals features that are not in the performance mode and both works at 60fps.

Nothing more, it is perfectly understood. But the narrative you want to create prevents you of any acceptance that does not coincide with it.

 

[Outlier]

the ray-tracing in forza was not worth it(on xsx at least) ......................judging from the pics posted here

It's not worth it on PC either. The quality is worse than GT7s Ray Tracing, even though you can use it while racing in FM.

 

[djjinx2]

.

Serious question: does this not get tiring? Halo Infinite, Bleeding Edge, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza Motorsport ...

It would be tiring if someone was interested in all those games to begin with, myself I only care for Forza out of those so am happy to let it evolve with patches and updates as the physics, sense of speed and fun is already there, just needed another 6 months in the oven

 

[Heisenberg007]

A racing game is a perfect fit in my opinion .. because tracks are the same with each release , new cars can be added, tracks can be adjusted . Graphics can be updated. The game could go on endlessly.

New cars and tracks, sure. But that's just added content.

Graphics, not really, I don't think so. There's only so much you can do with the graphics on consoles. We only see big graphical improvements in broken games, and even those mostly come down to performance, e.g., Jedi Fallen Survivor. Forza Motorsport doesn't seem to have glaring performance-related issues.

 

[Nemesisuuu]

Just an old article about start of development on latest FM, I remember reading the news back in the day. Game was probably in development for about 4 years, since T10 was until that point still busy with FM7.

Turn 10 is "Transitioning its Weight" to Next Forza Project

Dan Greenawalt made it official yesterday: Turn 10 is beginning the process for its next game, presumably Forza Motorsport 8. The Forza creative director sat down with Brian Ekberg, Chris Esaki, and other members of the Turn 10 team yesterday for the latest episode of Forza Monthly. The show cove

www.gtplanet.net

On the topic of visuals - I like both GT7 and new FM, both have their strengths and weaknesses, to say either of them looks bad is just fanboy drivel.

FM can look spectacular at times, but GT7 has somewhat more consistent look, and it can also look phenomenal at times.

Someone mentioned that GT7 Spa 1hr event from career - it has great atmosphere, but one thing that's annoying in most of longer GT races in campaign is that in 90% there's gonna be rain. In this Spa example specifically - rain starts falling around 15 minute mark into the race, then stops after some 20 minutes and then there's brief rain for some 5 minutes, 15 minutes before end of the race. Every single time, only thing that is variable is that sometimes rains more, but it does not affect strategy - you just slap on full wet tires and you're good to go. How I know - I've played that race 10+ times. It just feels scripted when it doesn't need to be.

 

[sinnergy]

New cars and tracks, sure. But that's just added content.

Graphics, not really, I don't think so. There's only so much you can do with the graphics on consoles. We only see big graphical improvements in broken games, and even those mostly come down to performance, e.g., Jedi Fallen Survivor. Forza Motorsport doesn't seem to have glaring performance-related issues.

You can do enough, adjust shaders, adjust polygon counts , adjust procedural shaders, like the road. Implement other types of AA. Etc … the question is, do they want to do the work , on the flipside there won't be another FM in the coming years .. so they have time .

Take WOW as example , they did graphical overhauls when a new version released of the same game .

 

[Heisenberg007]

You can do enough, adjust shaders, adjust polygon counts , adjust procedural shaders, like the road. Implement other types of AA. Etc … the question is, do they want to do the work , on the flipside there won't be another FM in the coming years .. so they have time .

The problem is the power ceiling of closed console boxes. They can do something like this on PC, but not really dive into this on consoles.

If they start improving the visual fidelity too much, performance will start suffering. The available power and resources remain the same; they can only distribute so much of those resources towards graphics before performance starts suffering.

And optimizations usually produce only minor improvements and results.

 

[sinnergy]

The problem is the power ceiling of closed console boxes. They can do something like this on PC, but not really dive into this on consoles.

If they start improving the visual fidelity too much, performance will start suffering. The available power and resources remain the same; they can only distribute so much of those resources towards graphics before performance starts suffering.

And optimizations usually produce only minor improvements and results.

You totally can, you can benchmark how much you can push per frame … the question is , if they want to.

For a closed box it is more easy because there are known variables. You don't need to keep in mind set-ups, in this case only Series consoles.

As in the DF video , they even do this. Anyway there is nothing stopping them to change the road shader for example.

Optimizing code , refactoring, can produce amazing results , ever seen the video about Mario 64 with refactored code running close to 60 frames on the N64.. with better better textures, geometry and effects .

It has to do if they get time to do this .. time is money , and if the people who buy Forza t, are looking the same at graphics as us …

I am sure devs want to make the best stuff they can. But sometimes there is more at play, sadly. That is how the world of today works .

 

[Three]

Its true, and you are near a single click in the video I show to you.

Further proof that you just like arguing with false facts. Texture detail is not equivalent to PC even in quality mode. Let me guess it's not a "core visual feature" or something. Just stop with the nonsense.

 

[Thirty7ven]

$10 vs $70

Sony shouldve put GT7 on PS+ extra by now.

Give all your money to PC hardware manufacturers by overpaying for parts, then cheap out on games and complain about the state of releases.

Big gaming fan I see

 

[Mr Moose]

Which means it's zoom. LOL

Crop is not zoom.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Give all your money to PC hardware manufacturers by overpaying for parts, then cheap out on games and complain about the state of releases.

Big gaming fan I see

I was surprised to see that, too. Some people have a very naive and childish view of how the world works.

• "Games should not be cross-gen. They should only be next-gen."
• "And these games should be way more ambitious and risky and do new things."
• "And they should all look mind-blowing AMAZING!"
• "By the way ... I don't want to pay anything for them. Those games should just launch on a subscription and not cost me anything extra, because I'm not paying."
• "But don't compromise on costs, visuals, ambition, etc. or I'm gonna complain!!"
  

 

[Darsxx82]

Further proof that you just like arguing with false facts. Texture detail is not equivalent to PC even in quality mode. Let me guess it's not a "core visual feature" or something. Just stop with the nonsense.

Further proof that you just like arguing with a narrative to defend.

I said "the equivalent of ultra." If we get picky then we can highlight that in the quality mode of XSX there is more vegetation (surelly a bug) vs PC

We are talking about a single point that is difficult to discern if not with zoom. But first, it is not known with certainty whether the definition of textures in XSX is a bug or not. Among other reasons, because on PC there are no low-ultra quality differences and the fps requirement is zero?. Second because we don't know if the textures in quality mode are the same as the rest of the modes. From the video I showed it is difficult to determine because in all modes XSX uses POM but the AF is different (higher in quality mode)

That said, exactly, the slightly better definition of the textures would not be considered "core visual feature", or at least not at the same level than a lot of others. RTAO, lighting, atmospheric effects, detail and quantity of elements in the circuits, vegetation, modeling.... are in this case more decisive visually, without a doubt. That you don't agree, even though you wouldn't know the differences in texture definition if DF hadn't shown it to you with zoom, I took it for granted

 

[Physiognomonics]

That's a huge difference if favor of GT7. And that's probably the first XSX x PS5 comparison we see.

So much for built from the ground up. Car looks like plastic. What about that tree shadow in the 5th screen? Holy fuck

Also, 'trees look much better in Forza':

Same spot, same time of day, both gameplay, from the screens above. Oof.

I am shocked how blurry the shadows and road textures are in Forza compared to GT7. What's the point of native 4K if textures and shadows are meant to be displayed at 1080p? It's definitely "doing native 4k" at the cost of everything else here.

 

[SlimySnake]

I was surprised to see that, too. Some people have a very naive and childish view of how the world works.

• "Games should not be cross-gen. They should only be next-gen."
• "And these games should be way more ambitious and risky and do new things."
• "And they should all look mind-blowing AMAZING!"
• "By the way ... I don't want to pay anything for them. Those games should just launch on a subscription and not cost me anything extra, because I'm not paying."
• "But don't compromise on costs, visuals, ambition, etc. or I'm gonna complain!!"

If gt7 looked next Gen and had next Gen features, i would've gladly paid $70 for it.

I don't like paying the next Gen tax for iterative sequels. It's called having standards. You should try holding devs accountable for releasing $70 last Gen games two years into the Gen.

I for one don't blindly defend next Gen only games. I have criticized ff16, starfield and now forza for their shortcomings. I hold ALL devs accountable. Do you?

 

[SlimySnake]

Give all your money to PC hardware manufacturers by overpaying for parts, then cheap out on games and complain about the state of releases.

Big gaming fan I see

I have bought hogwarts, re4, zelda totk, ff16, starfield, tlou part 1 day one this year and will preload Spider-Man tonight. I have plenty of money. I just saw nothing in gt7 that warranted a $60 purchase let alone a $70 one. I watched digital foundry reviews, gamespot and ign reviews and as a huge fan of gt sports i was shocked to see how little of an upgrade it was after nearly 5 years and a generation later. I have done a 180 on Spider-Man after watching previews and trailers. Gt7 never did that for me.

I am not a forza fan but it is far easier to spend $10 to try out a game then $70. Its not rocket science.

 

[Negotiator101]

Serious question: does this not get tiring? Halo Infinite, Bleeding Edge, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza Motorsport ...

Same as GT7 right? Starfield was complete at launch so not sure what that's got to do with it?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Serious question: does this not get tiring? Halo Infinite, Bleeding Edge, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza Motorsport ...

You can list literally any publisher and some of their games and get the same result, games that get updates after launch. Don't try to act as if it's exclusive to Xbox. This is a GT vs Forza thread and lots of people in here prefer GT, does it bother you guys that GT gets updates and will for years? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, when the tables are turned, you don't mind at all.

Also, @ listing Bleeding Edge and Starfield.

 

[Musilla]

I am shocked how blurry the shadows and road textures are in Forza compared to GT7. What's the point of native 4K if textures and shadows are meant to be displayed at 1080p? It's definitely "doing native 4k" at the cost of everything else here.

Forza does not run at native 4K in any mode.

 

[Insane Metal]

I am shocked how blurry the shadows and road textures are in Forza compared to GT7. What's the point of native 4K if textures and shadows are meant to be displayed at 1080p? It's definitely "doing native 4k" at the cost of everything else here.

Like said, unlike GT7, Forza does not run at 4K at all. In Quality mode (30fps) it might hit the target eventually.

 

[SlimySnake]

Like said, unlike GT7, Forza does not run at 4K at all. In Quality mode (30fps) it might hit the target eventually.

I run forza at native 4k on pc ultra setting and it still looks blurry/soft. There is definitely something wrong with the choices they have made with certain settings that are lending it the soft look. Pretty sure track textures are bugged because i see them floating at times on certain tracks. Wouldn't be surprised if other settings are fucked too.

 

[Heisenberg007]

If gt7 looked next Gen and had next Gen features, i would've gladly paid $70 for it.

I don't like paying the next Gen tax for iterative sequels. It's called having standards. You should try holding devs accountable for releasing $70 last Gen games two years into the Gen.

I for one don't blindly defend next Gen only games. I have criticized ff16, starfield and now forza for their shortcomings. I hold ALL devs accountable. Do you?

But these comparisons with Forza show that GT 7 does look next-gen. In fact, it even looks better than a next-gen exclusive racer.

 

[Senua]

But these comparisons with Forza show that GT 7 does look next-gen. In fact, it even looks better than a next-gen exclusive racer.

Eh. Can you imagine GT7 without PS4 in mind? Not targeting native 4k? A proper next gen GT game would look incredible.

Forza is a next gen game, it just shit the bed.

 

[Darsxx82]

Like said, unlike GT7, Forza does not run at 4K at all. In Quality mode (30fps) it might hit the target eventually.

??? According to DF, the quality and performance mode are 4K most of the time, maintaining the framerate without a trace or drop of a single fps.

RT mode is ~1570p average and also without any trace of fps drop whatever the racing conditions.... unlike GT7 which can show drops up to 40s FPS in certains conditions.

PS.We cant be just as picky with all games?? You do not agree?.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Eh. Can you imagine GT7 without PS4 in mind? Not targeting native 4k? A proper next gen GT game would look incredible.

Forza is a next gen game, it just shit the bed.

I believe it's more complicated than that; It's a double-edged sword. An equally important factor is the potential profitability (ROI) of a game.

GT 7 launched for a potential userbase of 130 million+ gamers. This would have allowed them to set a higher development budget, which showed in the game.

If GT 7 only launched for PS5 and its projected profit was, let's say, only $100 million, Sony would have had to keep its development cost to maybe $50 million. Then the game wouldn't have looked as good as it does now -- even if it was a PS5 exclusive.

This is a huge factor that many people don't think about.

Xbox games do not sell well, and this shows in their development budget. There is a reason why Forza shat the bed. Halo Infinite, Starfield, Redfall, Forza Motorsport: they were all undercooked and visually unambitious. The reason is that these games are not expected to set the sales charts on fire, and so their development budget has to be adjusted accordingly.

It's the same reason why, despite being a cross-gen game, Horizon Forbidden West is still the most beautiful open-world game on consoles, even after 2 years. It looks so good because it's a cross-gen game that was targeting 15M+ sales.

 

[Musilla]

Don't forget that GT7 has been created with VR in mind from the first day of development

 

[skyfinch]

Weird, but next gen only games haven't really wowed me in general. Yet, cross gen games, be it Horizon Forbidden West, and Forza Horizon 5 are two of the best looking games out there. Even Gears of War Hive Busters, also a cross gen game looks amazing.
Also gt7.

 

[Windom Earle]

I think it comes down to how good the handling is it just top level. As for the current content issues we know it's a game that will be updated for years so I guess those things are coming.

"I guess those things are coming" is a ridiculous thing to say. AAA games launching in a bad state is becoming the norm and people are willing to accept it even more for Gamepass titles? Terrible trend.

 

[transformer]

Perhaps I'm the minority, but I think both games look fantastic. Like any racing game, LOD adjustments and other optimizations will be done to maintain frame rate. As expected, this thread has focused mainly on those things. But when actually playing these games they both look amazing to me. In particular for Forza, the changing weather conditions and time of day look great and make every practice and race session feel unique. Overall massive improvement over last gen games IMO.

 

[Negotiator101]

"I guess those things are coming" is a ridiculous thing to say. AAA games launching in a bad state is becoming the norm and people are willing to accept it even more for Gamepass titles? Terrible trend.

Listen if the game released in a terrible state like Redfall or Cyberpunk etc then I'd absolutely agree but this is a live service game and is more than playable right now. GT7 for instance has been having content updates since launch, no difference. Big difference between unplayable and lacking content, this is nothing to do with Gamepass either so that nonsense needs to stop.

 

[Heisenberg007]

You can list literally any publisher and some of their games and get the same result, games that get updates after launch. Don't try to act as if it's exclusive to Xbox. This is a GT vs Forza thread and lots of people in here prefer GT, does it bother you guys that GT gets updates and will for years? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, when the tables are turned, you don't mind at all.

Also, @ listing Bleeding Edge and Starfield.

GT 7's updates aren't about "fixing" the game or adding missing stuff. Those updates add new stuff.

Remember that Forza launched with less content and tracks than GT 7 did. Forza is also missing previously promised stuff at launch, like RTGI, so its updates won't be like GT 7.

 

[Negotiator101]

Forza does not run at native 4K in any mode.

Not constantly but it absolutely does hit 4k significantly.

 

[Negotiator101]

GT 7's updates aren't about "fixing" the game or adding missing stuff. Those updates add new stuff.

Remember that Forza launched with less content and tracks than GT 7 did. Forza is also missing previously promised stuff at launch, like RTGI, so its updates won't be like GT 7.

424 in GT7 over 500 in Motorsport.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

GT 7's updates aren't about "fixing" the game or adding missing stuff. Those updates add new stuff.

Remember that Forza launched with less content and tracks than GT 7 did. Forza is also missing previously promised stuff at launch, like RTGI, so its updates won't be like GT 7.

GT7 has had updates to help improve AI, loading, stuttering, crashes, etc, plus add new content. So it's literally like I said, when the tables are turned, it's fine. What a shock.

 

[Senua]

I believe it's more complicated than that; It's a double-edged sword. An equally important factor is the potential profitability (ROI) of a game.

GT 7 launched for a potential userbase of 130 million+ gamers. This would have allowed them to set a higher development budget, which showed in the game.

If GT 7 only launched for PS5 and its projected profit was, let's say, only $100 million, Sony would have had to keep its development cost to maybe $50 million. Then the game wouldn't have looked as good as it does now -- even if it was a PS5 exclusive.

This is a huge factor that many people don't think about.

Xbox games do not sell well, and this shows in their development budget. There is a reason why Forza shat the bed. Halo Infinite, Starfield, Redfall, Forza Motorsport: they were all undercooked and visually unambitious. The reason is that these games are not expected to set the sales charts on fire, and so their development budget has to be adjusted accordingly.

It's the same reason why, despite being a cross-gen game, Horizon Forbidden West is still the most beautiful open-world game on consoles, even after 2 years. It looks so good because it's a cross-gen game that was targeting 15M+ sales.

All true, but I still wana imagine! and in a few years when the PS5 userbase is bigger hopefully we'll get GT8, and not have to wait for early PS6 for another cross gen game

I wonder what the budget was comparing Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon 5? Horizon games sell more of course and let's be honest, Playground just seem to have the more talented artists

 

[sendit]

In my opinion it is , and from pics … those could be doctored .I play the game . RT OA helps to ground everything, and the RT reflections is a nice addition.

The engine is ready for the future , sometimes there is more than only visuals , but refactoring a engine , deadlines, stakeholders , opinions and whatnot , now they have to tweak some aspects, like some type of weather lighting, sunny days look kinda flat ( but also in real life) and look at their procedural textures on the road. And if they manage their car shader.

Are we talking about Forza Motorsport 2023's engine? If so I agree. The engine is limited to 180 degrees of rotation when playing with a steering wheel. This ensures the player with weak wrist are able to compete. Where as the competitor, GT7 supports a true 900 degree rotation while playing with a steering wheel. This alienates competition. PD needs further limitations to support all genders.

 

[ShakenG]

424 in GT7 over 500 in Motorsport.

484* GT7 as of 1.38. Last content update.

 

[transformer]

Are we talking about Forza Motorsport 2023's engine? If so I agree. The engine is limited to 180 degrees of rotation when playing with a steering wheel. This ensures the player with weak wrist are able to compete. Where as the competitor, GT7 supports a true 900 degree rotation while playing with a steering wheel. This alienates competition. PD needs further limitations to support all genders.

This is entirely incorrect. Forza game engine has supported a wide range of rotation for some time. I've got my wheel set to 900 degrees and while I haven't tested what the actual limit is in the game engine, it's far more than 180…

 

[Heisenberg007]

424 in GT7 over 500 in Motorsport.

You're counting duplicate cars too in Motorsport; there are loads of duplicates. And you have conveniently ignored the number of tracks

 

[sendit]

This is entirely incorrect. Forza game engine has supported a wide range of rotation for some time. I've got my wheel set to 900 degrees and while I haven't tested what the actual limit is in the game engine, it's far more than 180…

FM23

 

[Windom Earle]

Listen if the game released in a terrible state like Redfall or Cyberpunk etc then I'd absolutely agree but this is a live service game and is more than playable right now. GT7 for instance has been having content updates since launch, no difference. Big difference between unplayable and lacking content, this is nothing to do with Gamepass either so that nonsense needs to stop.

So if it's not "unplayable", everything is cool and you are fine to be a beta tester?

Let's see:
- Downgraded and overall disappointing graphics
- Broken graphics option menu on PC
- Gamma also borderline broken due to bug
- Wheel controls still bad
- Disappointing car list
- Disappointing track list
- Disappointing grind career

This is garbage and gets called out deservedly. Also you standard of unplayable is vague. Even Cyberpunk was not unplayable, at least on PC.

 

[Flutta]

$10 vs $70

Sony shouldve put GT7 on PS+ extra by now.

PlayStation doesn't have a parent company that can take massive losses like Xbox.

I see that the GP modell has even effected someone like you who clearly has a more understanding of the business side of things compared to the average Joe.

Serious question: does this not get tiring? Halo Infinite, Bleeding Edge, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza Motorsport ...

It's the new "cop-out" for accepting unfinished/broken games at launch. Only idiots fall for that type of mentallity, and there are many of them sadly.

 

[Negotiator101]

484* GT7 as of 1.38. Last content update.

At launch I was talking about.

 

[transformer]

FM23

That video shows that the graphics engine has 360 degrees of rotation. And the physics engine has much more as I stated. So you proved yourself wrong, Not 180 in the graphics engine, nor in the physics engine.

 

[SlimySnake]

Eh. Can you imagine GT7 without PS4 in mind? Not targeting native 4k? A proper next gen GT game would look incredible.

Forza is a next gen game, it just shit the bed.

Yep.

PlayStation doesn't have a parent company that can take massive losses like Xbox.

I see that the GP modell has even effected someone like you who clearly has a more understanding of the business side of things compared to the average Joe.

It's the new "cop-out" for accepting unfinished/broken games at launch. Only idiots fall for that type of mentallity, and there are many of them sadly.

horizon and gt7 came out within weeks of each other and horizon went on ps+ extra exactly 1 year after launch. It's surprising that's all.

 

[sendit]

That video shows that the graphics engine has 360 degrees of rotation. And the physics engine has much more as I stated. So you proved yourself wrong, Not 180 in the graphics engine, nor in the physics engine.

180 left to right. Still a far cry from supporting 900 degrees. GT7 soft locks this depending on which car with full hand animation.

 

[transformer]

180 left to right. Still a far cry from supporting 900 degrees. GT7 soft locks this depending on which car with full hand animation.

So animation twice what you claimed. More importantly, the gameplay/physics supports far more. I believe it's 900 degrees, that's what it was in Forza 7. Haven't bothered to look in telemetry for Forza Motorsport.

 

[sendit]

So animation twice what you claimed. More importantly, the gameplay/physics supports far more. I believe it's 900 degrees, that's what it was in Forza 7. Haven't bothered to look in telemetry for Forza Motorsport.

Upon further investigation, I stand corrected. FM23 goes beyond this depending on the car. The issue here is visual feedback isn't provided for the user which is a 180 left to right lock.