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[clarky]

Wut? CoD is literally the biggest impact that will ever hit GP

2) they can't control. They are pivoting to giving access to PlayStation players, and maybe some of them buy an Xbox due to GP

No one is buying an xbox and selling(or in addition to) their playstation to sub to a service for one game.

Sure they will get an uptick in subs but not say 10-20 million or more. I can't see it anyways.

Like i said they are killing xbox off and Gamepass is the platform now. If you dont think it can turn a profit then obviously MS doesn't agree with you.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

No it wasn't anywhere near break even. GP was a huge loss when taking into account first party dev costs

Gee golly what a pickle, do we believe the execs who make public comments beholden to shareholders or do we believe the random Sony shill on GAF with zero evidence just making assumptions?

All of the games are available in GamePass and outside of GamePass. The costs to make games isnt the responsibility of GamePass to recuperate

The problem MS is experiencing is that they simply aren't selling enough consoles. They have a revenue percentage where GamePass makes sense, they just thought it would be a percentage of a bigger pie. So now they are making the pie bigger the only way they can, releasing more games on other consoles.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I was interested in his specific response. Point A would hold true if not for MS's clear intention to become less reliant on 3rd parties overtime. This is a big reason for their massive investments in studios. Point B is an assumption contingent on point A. Your last statement only holds true if their investments don't pan out.

We've seen some of the numbers they estimated to pay to get certain 3rd party games on GP.

It's safe to assume that bringing the current concept to Playstation would exponentially increase the price MS would have to pay 3rd parties.

GP is already unsustainable as is.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Gee golly what a pickle, do we believe the execs who make public comments beholden to shareholders

Gee golly what a pickle. Execs can make simple statements with tons of caveats to them and 1) not be lying and 2) not telling the full truth

If MS and GP was a massive success and hugely profitable they wouldn't be shutting down studios and they wouldn't be going third party

 

[THE DUCK]

The fact that MS is releasing on PlayStation tells you GP and Xbox exclusives was not enough

No it tells me 30 million consoles is too small of a user base to sell to.

No it wasn't anywhere near break even. GP was a huge loss when taking into account first party dev costs

Source? I do believe Phil stated it was profitable at one point. Does anyone actually have hard numbers?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No one is buying an xbox and selling(or in addition to) their playstation to sub to a service for one game.

CoD only players this is a good chance over time

Source? I do believe Phil stated it was profitable at one point. Does anyone actually have hard numbers?

Oh yes it's profitable *excluding FP dev costs

 

[clarky]

We've seen some of the numbers they estimated to pay to get certain 3rd party games on GP.

It's safe to assume that bringing the current concept to Playstation would exponentially increase the price MS would have to pay 3rd parties.

GP is already unsustainable as is.

Think we've seen today that a couple more purchases and they won't need anyone else other than themselves to make content for gamepass.

Sure a few indies here and there and 3-6 month old other AA-AAA titles to fill in the gaps.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Gears, halo and forza won't be ported imo.

This will age like a milk on Arrakis

 

[clarky]

CoD only players this is a good chance over time

Nah. £60 for the game and what £60 for ps plus. vs £400 for the console and what £200 a year. No one is budging for that.*

*Figures off the top of my head could be wildly inaccurate.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

The difference four months makes.


The first clp before getting that sweet third party money from Sea of thieves PS5 vs Now after fully embracing the money that comes from other platforms

 

[MarkMe2525]

We've seen some of the numbers they estimated to pay to get certain 3rd party games on GP.

It's safe to assume that bringing the current concept to Playstation would exponentially increase the price MS would have to pay 3rd parties.

GP is already unsustainable as is.

Possibly, but I again feel like this conclusion ignores MS's investments, which quite literally are aimed at addressing this inevitability. Sure, the licensing costs will skyrocket in the short term. In the long term, MS would subsidize those costs (to a degree) with increased revenue from the additional users, all the while reducing the need to license as many 3rd party games.

Of course, I'm not ruling out any additional changes to the pricing (as I was not the person making any assertions). I'm simply pushing back on a claim I don't find justified to believe in, at least not with certainty

 

[THE DUCK]

[

A theoretical GamePass on PlayStation would need to be reworked in both the games offerings (MGS titles only) and pricing as that paring down of games offered would massively decrease the value proposition. Plus Sony would get a 30% cut of the subscription money and then figure out what to do with the competing offers on Game Pass and PS+ (Bethesda titles). I'd be curious to see the subscriber numbers for EA Play on GTA+ on PlayStation. Those subscription prices are $5.99->$6.99, granted I think GamePass library is strong than either. What would be more interesting is if Sony and MS could collaborate and add GamePass as a perk of the higher tiers of PS+ a la EA Play on GamePass. Probably not enough money there for Microsoft though.

True it would need reworking. Not even sure if Sony wants it. Pricing maybe around $10.
But if they hooked 10 million users and net $7 that's almost a billion a year in revenue they don't have now.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Nah. £60 for the game and what £60 for ps plus. vs £400 for the console and what £200 a year. No one is budging for that.*

*Figures off the top of my head could be wildly inaccurate.

Next Gen, they're going to eventually upgrade

 

[THE DUCK]

Yeah I noticed on the end of the Indy, it says "Console" and "PC". I think that's a bit more new.

I see xbox x and series and steam, but I swear that's a departure from past time, I think they said xbox exclusive last time. Maybe I should check...

 

[clarky]

Next Gen, they're going to eventually upgrade

Only time will tell.

 

[nial]

The ponies are in desperate need of quality games, you can't just live off Asian games of questionable quality.

Embrace Eve like your fellow Americans.

Sales-Age - Circana April 2024: #1 Stellar Blade #4 Sea of Thieves #5 Fallout 4 #8 Fallout 76; PS5 #1 Units + Rev, Switch #2 Units Xbox #2 Rev

State of the market Projected total US spending on video game hardware, content and accessories fell 3% in April 2024 vs YA, to $4.1B. A 2% increase in content spending could not offset a 43% drop in hardware and a 4% dip in accessories. The content spending growth was led by mobile, with...

www.neogaf.com

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Gee golly what a pickle. Execs can make simple statements with tons of caveats to them and 1) not be lying and 2) not telling the full truth

If MS and GP was a massive success and hugely profitable they wouldn't be shutting down studios and they wouldn't be going third party

Yeah, Microsoft surely manipulated Gamepass numbers over the years to make it more successful than what it was. And perhaps it was slightly profitable, but going forward, Xbox has actually legit AAA games that cost hundreds of millions of dollars on the books. I highly doubt subscriber growth in the near future will cover the costs of those games. Gamepass is a long term play, which I still doubt works out in the end

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Possibly, but I again feel like this conclusion ignores MS's investments, which quite literally are aimed at addressing this inevitability. Sure, the licensing costs will skyrocket in the short term. In the long term, MS would subsidize those costs (to a degree) with increased revenue from the additional users, all while reducing the need to license as many 3rd party games.

Of course, I'm not ruling out any additional changes to the pricing (as I was not the person making any assertions). I'm simply pushing back on a claim I don't find justified to believe in, at least not with certainty

That may be true, but these services have a low ceiling.
We already see it rn, while GP is available on both Xbox and PC, it can't break the 30M barrier (most subs are on Xbox, so outside of their consoles there is little interest).

This will be the same on Playstation, because the Xbox games don't have the same pull on other platforms as they do on Xbox.
Otherwise Xbox wouldn't be in this position.
And paying massive amounts of fees for a low-ceiling sub service is unsustainable.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

So it seems that Phil has finally accepted it and is just saying the truth now. Nothing wrong with that. It's gonna be what it's gonna be.

 

[MarkMe2525]

[

A theoretical GamePass on PlayStation would need to be reworked in both the games offerings (MGS titles only) and pricing as that paring down of games offered would massively decrease the value proposition. Plus Sony would get a 30% cut of the subscription money and then figure out what to do with the competing offers on Game Pass and PS+ (Bethesda titles). I'd be curious to see the subscriber numbers for EA Play on GTA+ on PlayStation. Those subscription prices are $5.99->$6.99, granted I think GamePass library is strong than either. What would be more interesting is if Sony and MS could collaborate and add GamePass as a perk of the higher tiers of PS+ a la EA Play on GamePass. Probably not enough money there for Microsoft though.

For sure, a direct portal to an exact copy of the Xbox Gamepass selection just wouldn't work due to licensing constraints. It would have to be mostly MS published titles, maybe with a sprinkling of 3rd party.

That may be true, but these services have a low ceiling.
We already see it rn, while GP is available on both Xbox and PC, it can't break the 30M barrier (most subs are on Xbox, so outside of their consoles there is little interest).

This will be the same on Playstation, because the Xbox games don't have the same pull on other platforms as they do on Xbox.
Otherwise Xbox wouldn't be in this position.
And paying massive amounts of fees for a low-ceiling sub service is unsustainable.

I could see a world where they get it working in the manner I describe above. Me just speculating here, but $10 for PS5 users to have access to Activision, Bethesda, MS studio games. No reworking of licensing agreements to put 3rd party games on PS5 gamepass.

 

[Dorfdad]

He no longer sees a path forward to being a dominate force sales wise with hardware

Will keep selling to a niche market and try to make more money from other platforms they aren't getting on Gamepass

So, in essence what they have decided internally is to become the new EA, but we see how that turns out. If you don't own the hardware, you don't make the money long term. I don't expect them to back out of hardware, but I do expect them to see Cloud is the future and they are just releasing new games on all platforms to keep things afloat.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Gee golly what a pickle. Execs can make simple statements with tons of caveats to them and 1) not be lying and 2) not telling the full truth

Saying the service is profitable isnt a "simple statement with tons of caveats". Try harder please.

If MS and GP was a massive success and hugely profitable they wouldn't be shutting down studios and they wouldn't be going third party

No one said massive success or hugely profitable. When you have to exaggerate, youve lost the argument.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Saying the service is profitable isnt a "simple statement with tons of caveats". Try harder please.




No one said massive success or hugely profitable. When you have to exaggerate, youve lost the argument.

You try harder

We have seen Xbox basically implode this year. Studio closures, layoffs, going full third party. GamePass with no growth, Xbox getting outsold like 6:1 in recent months

But ok, trust Phil Bro, it's profitable he said so, there's no more nuance or details than that

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

blah blah

Dude is as confused about "full third party" as he is "live service game"

 

[MarkMe2525]

You try harder

We have seen Xbox basically implode this year. Studio closures, layoffs, going full third party. GamePass with no growth, Xbox getting outsold like 6:1 in recent months

But ok, trust Phil Bro, it's profitable he said so, there's no more nuance or details than that

All the while, here you are saying the same thing. "Trust me BRO" Can you demonstrate your claim to be true?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

blah blah

Dude is as confused about "full third party" as he is "live service game"

Seems you're the one that's confused

But trust Phil on "profitability" he'd never bend the truth!!

Oh wait, 2 months ago he said it's only 4 games and not a trend. Now, we can expect more games on more platforms

Gee, wonder why he wasn't fully forthcoming, gee, isn't that illegal, what about the shareholders huh

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

All the while, here you are saying the same thing. "Trust me BRO" Can you demonstrate your claim to be true?

I gave you the numbers of why it's blatantly obvious Xbox isn't sustainable and when taking into account dev costs. That's why they are going third party and why GP isn't "profitable" when you account for the hit it makes to retail sales and what their devs cost

 

[T-0800]

You try harder

We have seen Xbox basically implode this year. Studio closures, layoffs, going full third party. GamePass with no growth, Xbox getting outsold like 6:1 in recent months

But ok, trust Phil Bro, it's profitable he said so, there's no more nuance or details than that

To be fair $1 of profit is profitable.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Seems you're the one that's confused

But trust Phil on "profitability" he'd never bend the truth!!

Oh wait, 2 months ago he said it's only 4 games and not a trend. Now, we can expect more games on more platforms

Gee, wonder why he wasn't fully forthcoming, gee, isn't that illegal, what about the shareholders huh

He never said only four games are coming. And why are you confusing financials with games coming to other platforms

Get some sleep, friend.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

He never said only four games are coming. And why are you confusing financials with games coming to other platforms

Get some sleep, friend.

 

[Astray]

Watching obvious console warriors like Ryan or Parris try to give Phil an out during a high-profile interview and fail is honestly an underrated pleasure.

Someone check in on SenjutsuSage

He's been coping lol.

 

[DForce]

He never said only four games are coming. And why are you confusing financials with games coming to other platforms

Get some sleep, friend.

He said just four games and there are no plans for more.

Do you really think that's an honest statement when people are reporting that there are more games coming to PlayStation?

 

[MarkMe2525]

I gave you the numbers of why it's blatantly obvious Xbox isn't sustainable and when taking into account dev costs. That's why they are going third party and why GP isn't "profitable" when you account for the hit it makes to retail sales and what their devs cost

I saw that you gave me some made up numbers and derived a conclusion from them. Now I need you to demonstrate that these are all the numbers we need to determine if Gamepass would be profitable if released on PS5 and Switch. Without this, your claim is quite literally based on pure speculation. AkA, "Trust me bro"

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I saw that you gave me some made up numbers and derived a conclusion from them. Now I need you to demonstrate that these are all the numbers we need to determine if Gamepass would be profitable if released on PS5 and Switch. Without this, your claim is quite literally based on pure speculation.

They aren't made up numbers. We know how many people Xbox employs. We can set a floor on approximate labor costs. We can roughly add another 50-100% for marketing spend. Basic stuff that's within reason.

Xbox by itself is unable to sustain that, and GP would need to 3X assuming everyone is paying full dollar each month to sustain that

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Yeah that's an edited clip to fit a narrative I guess. In reality it was like a twenty minute talk where they said everything except only four games are ever going MP. Hell right after that cut out clip he went on to say software exclusive to one platform will be less and less in the future.

Not only that but GAF has been flooded with posts and threads about all the games coming to PS5, specifically because MS didn't hammer it down that no further games were coming.

So on one hand we've had weeks of posts about "Phil didn't say no more games are coming!" and now it's "Oh man he threw down this ironclad PROMISE that only those four games are coming!!"

It's cute, but it's child talk. Do you not get tired of being a child?

 

[{insert code here}]

MS can have my 70$ for Doom TDA and Gears 6 PS5 versions or they take my 20$ for a month of game pass PC. Up to them how they wanna handle it.

 

[MarkMe2525]

They aren't made up numbers. We know how many people Xbox employs. We can set a floor on approximate labor costs. We can roughly add another 50-100% for marketing spend. Basic stuff that's within reason.

Xbox by itself is unable to sustain that, and GP would need to 3X assuming everyone is paying full dollar each month to sustain that

The only "totally not made up" numbers you gave me where that 25,000 people work for Xbox, and you didn't answer my question. Can you demonstrate that these "not made up" numbers are all we need to determine if Gamepass would be profitable if put on PS5 and Switch, or are you just speculating?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

For sure, a direct portal to an exact copy of the Xbox Gamepass selection just wouldn't work due to licensing constraints. It would have to be mostly MS published titles, maybe with a sprinkling of 3rd party.

I could see a world where they get it working in the manner I describe above. Me just speculating here, but $10 for PS5 users to have access to Activision, Bethesda, MS studio games. No reworking of licensing agreements to put 3rd party games on PS5 gamepass.

So, just MS 1st party? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Would be the cheapest option for MS, but is it worth it? Sony will have to take a cut and the service would be far less attractive, even at €10.

Incl 3rd party? Iirc MS already spends $1+B on GP per year as is.
Putting it on PS as well will likely triple the cos, if not more. And clearly revenue is hurting due to GP, as we see MS become a 3rd party out of necessity.

Maybe I'm overlooking something though, but it doesn't look feasible at all to me.

 

[Jibran#one]

I'm subbed to gamepass till mid 2026
I see my series x as a gamepass machine
I'm ok with games going to PS5 more players to play with.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I'm subbed to gamepass till mid 2026
I see my series x as a gamepass machine
I'm ok with games going to PS5 more players to play with.

Plus those sales from other platforms will fund further GamePass titles for us. Win/win/win

 

[MarkMe2525]

So, just MS 1st party? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Would be the cheapest option for MS, but is it worth it? Sony will have to take a cut and the service would be far less attractive, even at €10.

Incl 3rd party? Iirc MS already spends $1+B on GP per year as is.
Putting it on PS as well will likely triple the cost. And clearly revenue is hurting due to GP, as we see MS become a 3rd party out of necessity.

Maybe I'm overlooking something though, but it doesn't look feasible at all to me.

Yeah, just MS 1st parties. Activision, Bethesda, MS studio games. Again, just speculation about how they could get it to work.

EDIT: they would be cannibalizing a lot of CoD sales. Maybe MTX from more users could make up some of that.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The only "totally not made up" numbers you gave me where that 25,000 people work for Xbox, and you didn't answer my question. Can you demonstrate that these "not made up" numbers are all we need to determine if Gamepass would be profitable if put on PS5 and Switch, or are you just speculating?

Do you reasonably think that GamePass subs will 3X by going on Switch and PS? It's a silly hypothetical because it would never happen anyways.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

He said just four games and there are no plans for more.

Do you really think that's an honest statement when people are reporting that there are more games coming to PlayStation?

Tbf, he actually said all Xbox games were on the table going forward. It's judt that 4 games were officially announced.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yeah, just MS 1st parties. Activision, Bethesda, MS studio games. Again, just speculation about how they could get it to work.

That would be the only way it could work, imo.

If Sony would even allow it.

But I don't see it working out for just Xbox 1st party, at all.

 

[MarkMe2525]

That would be the only way it could work, imo.

If Sony would even allow it.

But I don't see it working out for just Xbox 1st party, at all.

I don't think Playstation will ever allow it anyways

 

[Dr.brain64]

I want rare replay and halo mcc phil...

 

[Jibran#one]

Plus those sales from other platforms will fund further GamePass titles for us. Win/win/win

Exactly
I'll pay 0 for bo6 and will probably play it all year where ps players will pay 70 dollars for it I consider it a win
Besides the whole show and all the games except a few expansions are on gp.
If nothing this shows u how insane gamepass as a deal is

 

[MarkMe2525]

Do you reasonably think that GamePass subs will 3X by going on Switch and PS? It's a silly hypothetical because it would never happen anyways.

Where did you source the info that Gamepass needs to increase by 3X to be profitable. Can you demonstrate this to be true? Honestly, it just sounds like speculation propping up a speculative argument, Aka "trust me bro".

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Where did you source the info that Gamepass needs to increase by 3X to be profitable. Can you demonstrate this to be true? Honestly, it just sounds like more speculation, Aka "trust me bro".

It is speculation, based on a pretty large footprint of operating costs.

Do you believe GP is currently profitable?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Never seen anyone here wanting Xbox to fold. Not good for any gamer

I want Gamepass to fold as it's a true cancer that will result in more studios closing. The sooner that pile of shit ends, the better