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[Gaiff]

I agree. But I personally don't mind.

I don't buy Ubisoft games until they are $20, so in a month or 2. Lol.

They will have it implement in by then.

Me either, but the gold standard for Pro upgrade is still F1 2024. RT+Higher Resolution+PSSR and even a 120Hz mode.

This just trades off resolution for RTGI, but the res takes a massive hit, going from 1620p internal down to 1080p and below. It certainly doesn't live up to what the Pro was made for. F1 2024 did. You kept the IQ, even got RT, and the frame rate didn't take a hit.

Stands to reason given ML upscaling on consoles is brand new. Even coming close to DLSS3, at this point, is impressive and it was desperately needed, imo.



Still scratching my head over the DF's gushing on AC:S on Pro. If anything, this game is putting an exclamation point behind the need for PSSR, but how is it DF wasn't the one saying that?

Their opinions are widely inconsistent. That or they love RT a bit too much. The resolution is chopped down by like 40% per axis, no PSSR to alleviate the bad TAA, and they even admit the IQ is sometimes softer on the Pro, yet they act like this was some colossal achievement.

Meh upgrade.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The Pro has been out for over 4 months. Why isn't PSSR, one of the most important features, present at launch in a AAA game? Why do we have to wait to get better IQ?

DF gave way too much praise to the Pro upgrade of Shadows. No PSSR automatically disqualifies it from contention.

You mean a game that had to be delayed multiple times? Obviously they had bigger fish to fry than focusing on a PS5 Pro PSSR patch that would apply to what? 2 percent of total sales?

 

[Radical_3d]

For $20 I'll just get my enjoyment of them and don't feel the need to do everything.

… … …

 

[XXL]

Me either, but the gold standard for Pro upgrade is still F1 2024. RT+Higher Resolution+PSSR and even a 120Hz mode.

I think GT7 VR, NMS VR and Horizon Forbidden West are also extremely impressive Pro upgrades, along with F1.

 

[Gaiff]

You mean a game that had to be delayed multiple times?

Yeah, and now it's out.

Obviously they had bigger fish to fry than focusing on a PS5 Pro PSSR patch that would apply to what? 2 percent of total sales?

And I care why? Should I give them a pass for not bothering to implement PSSR or something? My point is that for a game to be "one of the most impressive Pro updates", PSSR needs to be in the picture or we need an alternative that allows us to retain the IQ and visual settings without sacrificing fps. See HFW, F1 2024, or GT7. Hell, even Callisto Protocol is pretty damn great. This is a mediocre update and we gotta wait for PSSR.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah, and now it's out.

And? The market priority was getting the game out not getting out a PS5 pro version. I swear people just love to complain. If you don't feel like a game is worth playing at any given time, play something else and wait to play it.

Am I the only person on neogaf with a backlog? I'm in no rush to play any games with the exception of a handful like Persona 4 Remake, Ghost of Yotei, Wolverine, Intergalactic, which I'll definitely be day 1 on.

And I care why? Should I give them a pass for not bothering to implement PSSR or something? My point is that for a game to be "one of the most impressive Pro updates", PSSR needs to be in the picture or we need an alternative that allows us to retain the IQ and visual settings without sacrificing fps. See HFW, F1 2024, or GT7. Hell, even Callisto Protocol is pretty damn great. This is a mediocre update and we gotta wait for PSSR.

Every game on PS5 Pro doesn't need to use PSSR. Horizon Forbidden West which you list doesn't even use PSSR.

 

[Gaiff]

And? The market priority was getting the game out not getting out a PS5 pro version. I swear people just love to complain. If you don't feel like a game is worth playing at any given time, play something else and wait to play it.

Love to complain because the game isn't as good looking as it should be on the Pro machine? Yeah, I feel that this is a valid complaint.

Am I the only person on neogaf with a backlog? I'm in no rush to play any games with the exception of a handful like Persona 4 Remake, Ghost of Yotei, Wolverine, Intergalactic, which I'll definitely be day 1 on.

Not about your backlog or mine. It's simply about releasing a game in the best possible state on the Pro console. Is it the end of the world? Is the game unplayable? No, but I sure as hell would have liked to have PSSR out of the gate. That way, the egregious hit to resolution wouldn't be as bad.

Every game on PS5 Pro doesn't need to use PSSR. Horizon Forbidden West which you list doesn't even use PSSR.

I said the following: or we need an alternative that allows us to retain the IQ and visual settings without sacrificing fps

HFW has the alternative. AC: Shadows doesn't. As such, you sacrifice the IQ for RTGI. PSSR isn't mandatory indeed. If you have something equivalent or better, knock yourself out, but this isn't the case here.

The equivalent is a game releasing without DLSS. There's always A LOT of bitching when this happens.

 

[DenchDeckard]

No, I was told PSSR won't get any better and that what you see is what you get. Someone please inform the devs. @ Bojji?

Pisser is machine learning. I'd be concerned if it didn't improve.

 

[Synastry]

I see Bojji got triggered by this good to see.

This is whyI always believe a Dev over some random user(Bojji)

 

[Bojji]

I see Bojji got triggered by this good to see.

This is way I always believe a Dev over some random user(Bojji)

Triggered by what? I responded to misinformation in my first post.

So far Ubisoft games with RT had terrible image quality with pssr. Avatar and star wars looked worse than with FSR.

Ubisoft said that it took them months and collaboration with Sony to fix this. Pssr clearly wasn't well trained with RTGI before console launch.

You don't have to believe me in anything, just look at the results.

 

[PaintTinJr]

DLSS4 Performance looks better than DLSS3 Quality, so you get better performance in the end.

Only if the latency for the compute overhead is less than the amount of frame-time you save from the lighter workload. Even trying ultra performance with DLSS4 on HL2 RT demo think it was able to get the DLSS4 native as low as 320x256, my 3060 12GB wouldn't push above 37fps in character combat areas, allowing me to push up the native and bounce count until it locked at 30fps, proving that the overhead from DLSS4 is really beyond 30xx series card's tensor core TOPs, to support 60fps. In that situation DLSS3 is arguably the better option if frame-rate is more important the PQ.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

DLSS annihilates both TAA and PISSER

Cool? Don't remember DLSS being ANYWHERE IN THE FUCKING OP but cool.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Triggered by what? I responded to misinformation in my first post.

So far Ubisoft games with RT had terrible image quality with pssr. Avatar and star wars looked worse than with FSR.

Ubisoft said that it took them months and collaboration with Sony to fix this. Pssr clearly wasn't well trained with RTGI before console launch.

You don't have to believe me in anything, just look at the results.

Let me take this moment to remind everyone that Bojji does NOT own a PS5 Pro...

 

[Bojji]

Let me take this moment to remind everyone that Bojji does NOT own a PS5 Pro...

Who gives a shit? I can have opinion about how games look on it. There are tons of 4k footage, images and many people doing comparisons.

 

[cormack12]

I think they explained it quite well. PSSR is quite immature and developing fast. The iteration they were on when they were shipping was not up to par. It had specific issues with vegetation and water (and by proxy RT water reflections).

Their priority for shipping was the PS5 Pro quality mode without any artefacts or pixel crawl etc.

Since then, they've revisited PSSR with Sony (coincidentally when the FSR4 improvements have been made) and they are now confident the updates in the SDK/API are stable enough to patch in. And the way it's phrased hints that the improvements were partially from Sony and partially from the team who became very intimate with the RTGI solution they implemented. Dual gains in other words.

All this is moot anyway because we shouldn't be using upscalers!

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I didn't even have to tag him for real. I knew he'd be lurking in this thread seething...

Bojii got the equivalent of the hotstock app but instead of alerting him when something is in stock it lets him know when someone makes a post about PS5 Pro on gaf lmao

 

[Ashamam]

Who gives a shit? I can have opinion about how games look on it. There are tons of 4k footage, images and many people doing comparisons.

Are you for real? Here was I thinking you might have some idea (sometimes) yet you are basing everything off Youtube footage. Do you at least have premium access to DF so you can look at the real captures?

 

[QLQ]

Let me take this moment to remind everyone that Bojji does NOT own a PS5 Pro...

Does he own a decent PC though? Never popped up on the 3Dmark thread for some reason...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Who gives a shit? I can have opinion about how games look on it. There are tons of 4k footage, images and many people doing comparisons.

How many console games have RTGI?

Your warped view on this project comes from an obvious place of consistent and constant trolling. Many have called you out for it at this point.

Somehow you think PSSR not being a complete product (newsflash, it never will be by the very nature of what it is) on day 1 that that is somehow a mark against it.

You also somehow think that PSSR should somehow be more mature than DLSS4 and FSR4 after being on the market for 5 months...

You're a weird dude...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Are you for real? Here was I thinking you might have some idea (sometimes) yet you are basing everything off Youtube footage. Do you at least have premium access to DF so you can look at the real captures?

Does he own a decent PC though? Never popped up on the 3Dmark thread for some reason...

He's just here to troll...

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Guys, don’t provoke Boji. Poles are on their nerves for the last few years for whatever reason.

I will fight for Rofif's honor anytime mudafacka

PS: Boji's too

 

[Gaiff]

He's just here to troll...

The irony.

No, I was told PSSR won't get any better and that what you see is what you get. Someone please inform the devs. @ Bojji?

You're the one who started with the trolling.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think they explained it quite well. PSSR is quite immature and developing fast. The iteration they were on when they were shipping was not up to par. It had specific issues with vegetation and water (and by proxy RT water reflections).

Their priority for shipping was the PS5 Pro quality mode without any artefacts or pixel crawl etc.

Since then, they've revisited PSSR with Sony (coincidentally when the FSR4 improvements have been made) and they are now confident the updates in the SDK/API are stable enough to patch in. And the way it's phrased hints that the improvements were partially from Sony and partially from the team who became very intimate with the RTGI solution they implemented. Dual gains in other words.

All this is moot anyway because we shouldn't be using upscalers!

Cerny has spoken at length about the democratization of PSSR. It was clear to most that it would get better the more developers had access to it and the more feedback that could be given to Sony. It's also clear that they prioritized things based on what they felt were the most important out of the gate and not on things they didn't think were as important.

RTGI for example is used in very few games. They also didn't focus as much on temporal stability at rest, because actual gamers play games... checks notes... in motion...

Anyone who has tackled projects know you focus on the most important things first. The very idea of saying that PSSR wasn't ready for launch because it didn't tackle everything perfectly at launch is so laughable.

Not sure why you think we shouldn't be using upscalers though.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Me coming onto the 500th PSSR related thread and seeing the usual suspects as well as the usual discourse :

c

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You're the one who started with the trolling.

I brought him up as a joke and there he was like the fucking boogeyman 2 minutes later. I didn't even tag him for real, yet there he was, like he's always underneath the proverbial bed lurking in every Ps5 Pro thread...

 

[Bojji]

Are you for real? Here was I thinking you might have some idea (sometimes) yet you are basing everything off Youtube footage. Do you at least have premium access to DF so you can look at the real captures?

It's enough to see what it is. You have NXG, DF and some others doing detailed comparisons.

Does he own a decent PC though? Never popped up on the 3Dmark thread for some reason...

Don't worry about my pc.

 

[SweetTooth]

Cool? Don't remember DLSS being ANYWHERE IN THE FUCKING OP but cool.

Thing is those insecure posters try to paint DLSS as something way ahead of everything which is not!

Wait until FSR4 get patched on Pro and we get a new wave of insecurity

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Thing is those insecure posters try to paint DLSS as something way ahead of everything which is not!

Wait until FSR4 get patched on Pro and we get a new wave of insecurity

But that's going to be maybe 2 years from now by then the PS6 will be right around the corner /s

 

[poppabk]

Moving image 8ft away on my couch and the differences are moot. I don't play games constantly pausing and I don't have the eyes of a hawk.

Then why are you in this thread? Surely you also won't notice the difference between TAA and PSSR?

 

[Bojji]

I brought him up as a joke and there he was like the fucking boogeyman 2 minutes later. I didn't even tag him for real, yet there he was, like he's always underneath the proverbial bed lurking in every Ps5 Pro thread...

I wouldn't even post in this thread (another one about ACS and Pro...) but when I saw your ridiculous post you left me with no choice.

 

[jm89]

DLSS annihilates both TAA and PISSER

 

[PaintTinJr]

DLSS annihilates both TAA and PISSER

It should do, but is only marginally better if you are being honest with yourself IMO.

It certainly is not the 4x times more TOPs used per frame derived by the SM count of say: a base 3070 with DLSS4 or the 2x times more TOPs used with DLSS3, never mind the multipliers on those TOPs on xx90 level cards, or even the uplift in 40xx, and again in 50xx cards.

PSSR is doing well at this early stage, for what it has available in TOPs per frame, no?

 

[Skifi28]

Me coming onto the 500th PSSR related thread and seeing the usual suspects as well as the usual discourse :

c

Yeah, you already know who will be posting, how many times per page and exactly what they will be saying just by seeing the thread title. I don't even bother anymore.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Thing is those insecure posters try to paint DLSS as something way ahead of everything which is not!

Wait until FSR4 get patched on Pro and we get a new wave of insecurity

I don't know if championing Sony fans cheering being able to use fsr4 over pisser is a great flex after Sony clearly invested a shit load of work into pisser

Fsr4 will be on every device. Console or PC in a few years.

 

[SweetTooth]

I don't know if championing Sony fans cheering being able to use fsr4 over pisser is a great flex after Sony clearly invested a shit load of work into pisser

Fsr4 will be on every device. Console or PC in a few years.

Sony CREATED BOTH..they can use whatever suits them ..

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Sony CREATED BOTH.

Bingo.

And either way, PSSR gets the job done for PS5 Pro. It'll just get better and having both solutions (either Sony involved or created) spells good things for the PS6.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I don't know if championing Sony fans cheering being able to use fsr4 over pisser is a great flex after Sony clearly invested a shit load of work into pisser

Fsr4 will be on every device. Console or PC in a few years.

FSR4 running on mutually exclusive set of tensor cores (around 1200/1300 4bit TOPs) in the RX 9070/XT is not the same situation for a port of FSR4 running on the Pro CUs in place of PSSR where the entire GPU CUs just doing 4 bit TOPs work is 600 TOPs.

What that basically says, is that the only way FSR4 is running on every device is if the device can either take a workload of the PS5 Pro port of FSR4, or it has a tensor unit with at least 300 4bit TOPs and taking twice the duration to run per frame is okay and viable - say on a laptop for 30fps.

 

[Heisenberg007]

 

[jm89]

I don't know if championing Sony fans cheering being able to use fsr4 over pisser is a great flex after Sony clearly invested a shit load of work into pisser

Fsr4 will be on every device. Console or PC in a few years.

Sony co developed fsr4, they will be incorporating the advancements they helped AMD make into PSSR. In other words they are still investing into PSSR.

I know it hurts, it is what it is.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Sony co developed fsr4, they will be incorporating the advancements they helped AMD make into PSSR. In other words they are still investing into PSSR.

I know it hurts, it is what it is.

It doesn't hurt at all. I want great tech. Playing ass creed on pc maxed out at 4k legit makes me want hardware and scaling to get better in the whatever you put under your tv space.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Calverz]

Massive win for ps5 pro. £800 justified for sure.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I don't know if championing Sony fans cheering being able to use fsr4 over pisser is a great flex after Sony clearly invested a shit load of work into pisser

Fsr4 will be on every device. Console or PC in a few years.

As a Sony fan, I just want to see good looking games.
This game looks really good, going by all the videos.

Who gives a shit what upscaling method is being used?

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Yes come on, get the thread about chromatic aberration levels of perceivable difference to seven pages lads, you can do it.

 

[jm89]

It doesn't hurt at all. I want great tech. Playing ass creed on pc maxed out at 4k legit makes me want hardware and scaling to get better in the whatever you put under your tv space.

You will. And you can thank AMD and Sony for that

 

[yogaflame]

Bingo.

And either way, PSSR gets the job done for PS5 Pro. It'll just get better and having both solutions (either Sony involved or created) spells good things for the PS6.

PSSR + FSR4 integrate

 

[viveks86]

@Feel Like I'm On 42

Everyone taking a dump on poor Bojji because the MVP is MIA

 

[DinoD]

Leave the PS5 Pro Lead Engineer out of this.

Hmmm. I am of Slavic descent. PS5 Pro Lead engineer surname is 95% not Polish. Sounds more like Czech surname. Lot of Czech surnames end with y. Duchovny, Cerny, etc. Cerny probably means black (blacksmith).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This just trades off resolution for RTGI, but the res takes a massive hit, going from 1620p internal down to 1080p and below.

Well there comes a certain point where resolution gains aren't nearly as impressive as RTGI, and in this case that may be the case.

It may also be the case that they've already baked in the 2-3 ms requirement of PSSR into the Pro mode with RTGI, but because they are still testing PSSR they have not yet deployed it with the game.

So in the future we could get RTGI + 1080p upscaled to 4K with PSSR, which may yield not only the RTGI improvements but also an apparent resolution that's quite a bit better than the current mode.

 

[Killer8]

Total Cerny victory.