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[Kacho]

Xenoblade X deserves to do well, the game sooooo good!

This game by far has my favourite open world in any RPG.

I wouldn't look to the UK market for how well a game is doing.

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

I get your point but you can find threads from back in 2017 complaining about nioh having a white protagonist. Not to mention new articles complaining about the same thing.

As an example:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/its-disappointing-that-team-ninja-chose-to-center-a-white-european-man-in-nioh.1342719/

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Isn't that the same reason Mario Kart is always on the charts?

Similarly, GTA5 is always on the charts because its cheaper to buy the game bundle with in-game currency than to just by the in-game currency. My friend says he owns a ton of copies.

Edited to make it more accurate.

 

[Woopah]

I get your point but you can find threads from back in 2017 complaining about nioh having a white protagonist. Not to mention new articles complaining about the same thing.

As an example:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/its-disappointing-that-team-ninja-chose-to-center-a-white-european-man-in-nioh.1342719/

You're right that there is a thread, but the vast majority of replies to the thread are people saying his skin colour isn't an issue.

 

[Muffdraul]

You're right that there is a thread, but the vast majority of replies to the thread are people saying his skin colour isn't an issue.

And I'm guessing it's pretty good odds the poster who opened that thread was probably one of the first gaffers to bail out and jump to purple forum?

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

You're right that there is a thread, but the vast majority of replies to the thread are people saying his skin colour isn't an issue.

Depends on the thread. The thread I linked was just an example. I googled about "nioh controversy" because I disntincly remember people on reddit( the only social media I used at that time) complaining a lot about nioh having a white mc instead of Japanese, along with articles doing the same thing. It was part of the reason why nioh 2 didn't have the same protagonist( atleast from what I remember). The neo gaf thread I linked was one of the top responses and you can find plenty more if you google it. You can find plenty of complaints as well as plenty defending( like you said) but the same is also true about AC shadow's or any game in general. Don't forget people complained about Spiderman ps4 having less or smaller puddles. Take any game and you can find plenty of people complaining about various things.

 

[touchfuzzy]

Same reason GTA5 is always on the charts because its cheaper to buy the game bundle with in-game currency than to just by the in-game currency. My friend says he owns a ton of copies.

...how would that be the same reason Mario Kart is always on the charts?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Brilliant and noone has been able to counter this yet.

He identified as Japanese though.

 

[Woopah]

Depends on the thread. The thread I linked was just an example. I googled about "nioh controversy" because I disntincly remember people on reddit( the only social media I used at that time) complaining a lot about nioh having a white mc instead of Japanese, along with articles doing the same thing. It was part of the reason why nioh 2 didn't have the same protagonist( atleast from what I remember). The neo gaf thread I linked was one of the top responses and you can find plenty more if you google it. You can find plenty of complaints as well as plenty defending( like you said) but the same is also true about AC shadow's or any game in general. Don't forget people complained about Spiderman ps4 having less or smaller puddles. Take any game and you can find plenty of people complaining about various things.

There definitely are other controversies, I just don't remember Nioh facing quote the same vitriol at Shadows.

 

[DeafTourette]

Depends on the thread. The thread I linked was just an example. I googled about "nioh controversy" because I disntincly remember people on reddit( the only social media I used at that time) complaining a lot about nioh having a white mc instead of Japanese, along with articles doing the same thing. It was part of the reason why nioh 2 didn't have the same protagonist( atleast from what I remember). The neo gaf thread I linked was one of the top responses and you can find plenty more if you google it. You can find plenty of complaints as well as plenty defending( like you said) but the same is also true about AC shadow's or any game in general. Don't forget people complained about Spiderman ps4 having less or smaller puddles. Take any game and you can find plenty of people complaining about various things.

There was far less controversy with Nioh than there has been for Shadows. They're almost worlds apart

 

[calico]

There was far less controversy with Nioh than there has been for Shadows. They're almost worlds apart

Which still would have been the case even if Nioh's protagonist had been Yasuke/a black guy.

If we hypothetically replace Shadows' Yasuke with a white (european) male protagonist, I'm not sure if the drama around Shadows would be less than it has been, or if it would just be coming from the 'other side'. I think it probably would have sold better and reviewed 15 points lower.

 

[nial]

Astrobot is like a punch in the face of all soyboys inside Playstation HQ.

What a fucking strong legs.

"PlayStation hates Astro Bot" is one of the weirdest and most stupid narratives I have ever witnessed, but if it helps some with coping...

 

[DeafTourette]

Which still would have been the case even if Nioh's protagonist had been Yasuke/a black guy.

If we hypothetically replace Shadows' Yasuke with a white (european) male protagonist, I'm not sure if the drama around Shadows would be less than it has been, or if it would just be coming from the 'other side'. I think it probably would have sold better and reviewed 15 points lower.

I don't think so.

But your admission in the last sentence supports my argument that the protagonist's race is very relevant to a portion of gamers.

 

[Kacho]

There was far less controversy with Nioh than there has been for Shadows. They're almost worlds apart

Different climate. This argument only works if you ignore all context.

Also, William was, and still is, a lame character. One obviously used so they could ape the look of Garalt for maximum western appeal.

 

[Killer8]

The British love the BBC.

 

[calico]

I don't think so.

But your admission in the last sentence supports my argument that the protagonist's race is very relevant to a portion of gamers.

I think Nioh being: from a Japanese developer, clearly far more fantastical in nature than AC, and not an established massive franchise like AC, makes it vanishingly unlikely the controversy would have reached the level this has.

I agree that race can be relevant (to 'both sides'), though I think the divide is not directly as simple as 'white vs black' but rather 'woke vs anti-woke' with the former only becoming particularly relevant where it is viewed as an indicator of the latter. I think most of the people who would complain about a white protagonist in Shadows (Team Woke), and most of the people complaining about a black protagonist in Shadows (Team Anti-Woke), would not necessarily complain about those elements in other contexts, so it seems reductive to chalk it up to racism.

 

[kindaGoth]

I am playing Shadows but it’s boring. Reminds me of the time I ate mediocre Chinese food with my weathered, senior co-worker. When the waitress came to clean up and asked how the meal was, his response: “I ate it”.

 

[Woopah]

Which still would have been the case even if Nioh's protagonist had been Yasuke/a black guy.

If we hypothetically replace Shadows' Yasuke with a white (european) male protagonist, I'm not sure if the drama around Shadows would be less than it has been, or if it would just be coming from the 'other side'. I think it probably would have sold better and reviewed 15 points lower.

If Shadows had stared a white man and a Japanese woman the drama would have been way way less.

 

[Thanati]

Brilliant and noone has been able to counter this yet.

You do realize you’re giving the bandwagon haters an aneurysm, right?

 

[Gaiff]

If Shadows had stared a white man and a Japanese woman the drama would have been way way less.

Don't know if I agree with this, but I know a lot of the people hiding behind the "we want a Japanese male protagonist" excuse would be singing a different tune.

 

[calico]

If Shadows had stared a white man and a Japanese woman the drama would have been way way less.

Not convinced. I think the drama would have just been coming from the other side instead, and the traditional gaming media would also have been on that side. Some outlets probably would have refused to review it. Ubisoft HQ likely would have been in physical danger if they refused to change course.

Purely hypothetical ofc - Ubisoft wouldn't even for one second consider making either protagonist white in AC Japan.

 

[DeafTourette]

Not convinced. I think the drama would have just been coming from the other side instead, and the traditional gaming media would also have been on that side. Some outlets probably would have refused to review it. Ubisoft HQ likely would have been in physical danger if they refused to change course.

Purely hypothetical ofc - Ubisoft wouldn't even for one second consider making either protagonist white in AC Japan.

I don't think the folks against the game would have been as vocal if the protagonist would have been white. You basically said it yourself ... The outrage would have come from "the left" but said nothing about "the right", which is the side that's against the actual game because of Yasuke. And a few posts up said a white protag would have been better for sales.

So based on what's been said by SOME posts (lest I am misconstrued), white would have been alright (non-woke) but black is wack (woke).

 

[Major Insano]

Different climate. This argument only works if you ignore all context.

Also, William was, and still is, a lame character. One obviously used so they could ape the look of Garalt for maximum western appeal.

Nioh also had a white antagonist in that Kenney? dude.
I think, like you said, they were trying to appeal to the western market.
William was a discount Geralt.

 

[MMaRsu]

Nioh also had a white antagonist in that Kenney? dude.
I think, like you said, they were trying to appeal to the western market.
William was a discount Geralt.

No hating on William allowed sir.

William Adams (Japanese: ウィリアム・アダムス, Hepburn: Wiriamu Adamusu, 24 September 1564 – 16 May 1620), better known in Japan as Miura Anjin (三浦按針, 'the pilot of Miura'), was an English navigator who, in 1600, became the first Englishman to reach Japan. He was later granted samurai status, and was recognized as one of the most influential foreigners in Japan during the early 17th century.[3]

He arrived in Japan as one of the few survivors of the ship Liefde[4] under the leadership of Jacob Quaeckernaeck. It was the only vessel to reach Japan from a five-ship expedition launched by a company of Rotterdam merchants[4] (a voorcompagnie, or predecessor, of the Dutch East India Company).[5] Soon after his arrival in Japan, Adams and his second mate Jan Joosten became advisors to shōgun Tokugawa Ieyasu, and each was appointed as hatamoto.[a][7]

Dutch and English bosses together

 

[Killer8]

I get your point but you can find threads from back in 2017 complaining about nioh having a white protagonist. Not to mention new articles complaining about the same thing.

As an example:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/its-disappointing-that-team-ninja-chose-to-center-a-white-european-man-in-nioh.1342719/

Bear in mind that thread was from pre-Reee GAF ie. when the lunatics hadn't yet contained themselves.

So it's kind of funny that the woke and anti-woke have found themselves as two sides of the same coin: whining about skin color.

 

[Dalbajobas]

You do realize you’re giving the bandwagon haters an aneurysm, right?

Not my intention.

Spoiler

yeah right

 

[Dalbajobas]

He identified as Japanese though.

Spoiler

 

[Signalis]

Difference is that William Adams has plenty of documented information about him, both in and outside Japan. And he was actually awarded the rank of Samurai. Not some vague text that can't be verified but keeps getting pushed to serve an agenda. So before posting a meme, at least know what you're posting. Nioh also doesn't pretend to be historically accurate

 

[Woopah]

Don't know if I agree with this, but I know a lot of the people hiding behind the "we want a Japanese male protagonist" excuse would be singing a different tune.

I just don't those the anti-crowd sees putting a white man in a video game as political choice that is "forced" and so wouldn't complain.

Not convinced. I think the drama would have just been coming from the other side instead, and the traditional gaming media would also have been on that side. Some outlets probably would have refused to review it. Ubisoft HQ likely would have been in physical danger if they refused to change course.

Purely hypothetical ofc - Ubisoft wouldn't even for one second consider making either protagonist white in AC Japan.

As for the woke crowd, I think they want representation and they get that as one of the characters is Japanese. Maybe if a white man was the only playable character they'd be more pissed.

I might have missed is as I diet follow TV as closely as games, but I don't remember the Shogun TV show getting a lot of controversy for having a white male character (though they are bases on books).

 

[Woopah]

Difference is that William Adams has plenty of documented information about him, both in and outside Japan. And he was actually awarded the rank of Samurai. Not some vague text that can't be verified but keeps getting pushed to serve an agenda. So before posting a meme, at least know what you're posting. Nioh also doesn't pretend to be historically accurate

Team Ninja calls Yasuke the Obdidian Samurai right? Even though he's not yet got the full rank.

 

[calico]

I don't think the folks against the game would have been as vocal if the protagonist would have been white. You basically said it yourself ... The outrage would have come from "the left" but said nothing about "the right", which is the side that's against the actual game because of Yasuke. And a few posts up said a white protag would have been better for sales.

Yes, the people currently being vocal wouldn't be vocal and the 'other side' would be instead. I think sales would likely be better because I think the two sides are not equal in number or impact on game sales.

 

[calico]

I just don't those the anti-crowd sees putting a white man in a video game as political choice that is "forced" and so wouldn't complain.

I agree they wouldn't complain. I think they would (probably correctly) assume it was a decision made for commercial reasons rather than political reasons.

 

[Signalis]

Team Ninja calls Yasuke the Obdidian Samurai right? Even though he's not yet got the full rank.

Yes, but Nioh doesn't base anything on historical fact. Ubisoft does, and that's where the problem comes in. It merely comes from the fact that there is very little historical evidence of him and contradicting information. Whereas William Adams has plenty of records about him, letter he wrote, letters from the Shogun, letters and account of people etc.

Personally I really don't give a shit. I hope the game industry crashes and burns to the ground. So it can be rebuilt without all the modern day shit. Hopefully both sides will then shut the fuck up. I wish I could go back to the days of being called a loser and a nerd for liking and playing games compared to modern gaming

 

[adamsapple]

Difference is that William Adams has plenty of documented information about him, both in and outside Japan. And he was actually awarded the rank of Samurai. Not some vague text that can't be verified but keeps getting pushed to serve an agenda. So before posting a meme, at least know what you're posting. Nioh also doesn't pretend to be historically accurate

Nor does AC Shadows, it's a fictional tale just set in a historical backdrop.

 

[Signalis]

Nor does AC Shadows, it's a fictional tale just set in a historical backdrop.

We are trying to create a game that is as authentic as possible. It’s something we take pride in.
- Karl Onnee (Game Lead Producer)

Assassin’s Creed is well known for its depiction of the history and accurate recreation of the world. It’s what players can expect with Assassin’s Creed Shadows.
- Charles Benoit (Game Director)

 

[kevboard]

Mario Kart 8, still unkillable it seems

 

[adamsapple]

We are trying to create a game that is as authentic as possible. It’s something we take pride in.
- Karl Onnee (Game Lead Producer)

Assassin’s Creed is well known for its depiction of the history and accurate recreation of the world. It’s what players can expect with Assassin’s Creed Shadows.
- Charles Benoit (Game Director)

 

[Lethal01]

Dont' forget all the praise for Ghost of Tsushima a game where they said they tried to be a historically accurate as possible so they made it about a katana wielding, armor wearing, haikus making samurai who strictly adhears to bushido.

Ant they set it 300 years before bushido was even kinda a thing, before they used Katanas, before they wore that kind of armor and before they did Haikus just to name. but that on war fine.

Going by al the crying at the reveal of ghots 2 they may change their mind now that they dared to make the MC a woman, but maybe thes racism is just stronger than the sexism.

 

[calico]

Pretending Nioh and Shadows are close in this regard is disingenuous imo. Even the official blurb for the two games makes it clear that Shadows is supposed to be set in feudal Japan whereas Nioh has a Japan flavoured dark fantasy setting.

When AC does use fantasy elements (excluding its fantastical woke elements), it tends to be tucked out of the way specifically so that the integrity of the 'historical setting' part is maintained as much as possible.

 

[onQ123]

Pretending Nioh and Shadows are close in this regard is disingenuous imo. Even the official blurb for the two games makes it clear that Shadows is supposed to be set in feudal Japan whereas Nioh has a Japan flavoured dark fantasy setting.

When AC does use fantasy elements (excluding its fantastical woke elements), it tends to be tucked out of the way specifically so that the integrity of the 'historical setting' part is maintained as much as possible.

Pretending to care about the historical accuracy of a video game is even more disingenuous

 

[Lethal01]

Pretending Nioh and Shadows are close in this regard is disingenuous imo. Even the official blurb for the two games makes it clear that Shadows is supposed to be set in feudal Japan whereas Nioh has a Japan flavoured dark fantasy setting.

When AC does use fantasy elements (excluding its fantastical woke elements), it tends to be tucked out of the way specifically so that the integrity of the 'historical setting' part is maintained as much as possible.

Maybe that's true if you only consider literal magic to be the fiction, otherwise its backwards, Assassins creed is a fantasy first with the real cold hard facts tucked away as collectibles.

 

[adamsapple]

Pretending to care about the historical accuracy of a video game is even more disingenuous

Screenshot this for future reference bro but we're on the same page here

 

[Mister Wolf]

Maybe that's true if you only consider literal magic to be the fiction, otherwise its backwards, Assassins creed is a fantasy first with the real cold hard facts tucked away as collectibles.

Assassin's Creed is as much fantasy as this:

 

[calico]

Pretending to care about the historical accuracy of a video game is even more disingenuous

Why has Ubisoft always said how important it is to them if nobody cares? It's a huge part of AC's appeal that it uses historical settings.

I think the degree of the inaccuracy probably matters a lot. Most people aren't going to know or be taken out of the setting if Jin Sakai is wearing a type of armour from slightly the wrong era; they are probably going to care if he does something as anachronistic as eg. pull out an M16 and gun everyone down.

 

[Kilau]

Pretending to care about the historical accuracy of a video game is even more disingenuous

Ubi talks it up the historical accuracy all the time in these games and then throws that disclaimer in at the beginning. Frankly I don't really care but don't act like Ubi has no part in that conversation.

 

[onQ123]

Why has Ubisoft always said how important it is to them if nobody cares? It's a huge part of AC's appeal that it uses historical settings.

I think the degree of the inaccuracy probably matters a lot. Most people aren't going to know or be taken out of the setting if Jin Sakai is wearing a type of armour from slightly the wrong era; they are probably going to care if he does something as anachronistic as eg. pull out an M16 and gun everyone down.

There is literally a game being praised for bringing modern weapons to medieval times right now lol

 

[Kacho]

This thread has reached peak internet

 

[Lethal01]

Why has Ubisoft always said how important it is to them if nobody cares? It's a huge part of AC's appeal that it uses historical settings.

I think the degree of the inaccuracy probably matters a lot. Most people aren't going to know or be taken out of the setting if Jin Sakai is wearing a type of armour from slightly the wrong era; they are probably going to care if he does something as anachronistic as eg. pull out an M16 and gun everyone down.

And their recreation of historical settings are vrey commendable, ussually totatlly wrong and putting far more focus on giving players what would excite them accuracy but still you can feel tons of time and work were well spent on those choices.

Shadows is as innacurate as any other Asscreed in that aspect

Regardles, the stories that happen in those settings are just a constant barage of made up nonsense with a backdrop that look historically accurate at a glance and that still is commendable because as they have said a hundred times in the part decade these games stay as close to history "as possible while telling our story" the story comes first.

 

[Shambalakan]

Assassin's Creed as a historically accurate series:

Spoiler: Assassin's Creed 2

This is Pope Alexander VI with some weird magical tools:

Spoiler: Assassin's Creed Odyssey

This is Pythagoras as a 150 years old man who gives a magical staff to his daughter that makes her an immortal!

 

[Dr.Morris79]

What a disingenuous comparison lol.

Most leftist bullshit is