dDoc
Member
Corporations, greed.
we're being priced out of our hobby.
- Thread starter 64gigabyteram
- Start date
Corporations, greed.
Cyberpunkd
Member
This is the case for a very small few years timeframe when you start making money and are not in a relationship or starting a family yet, and even then I would challenge the notion that 1000€ graphics card would still go well no matter tie circumstances.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Because the default state is that of perpetual revenue growth. You always need to push further, and Nintendo despite funny and awkward Japanese dudes knows that it can milk their fans however they want. This is early-adopter pricing aka Nintendo faithful. They will pay all of that and more to get yet another iteration of Mario Kart. That's also why Nintendo will never, ever release their games on PC, they know the house will crumble then.
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Regginator
Member
Ah, I see your angle. But I don't agree that's necessarily a dominant position for Nintendo. If anything, it's a dominant position for retailers, or at the very least a delicate balance. I don't know the exact numbers, but let's say the ratio physical-digital games for the Switch is 75-25, and assume something similar will be the case for Switch 2, why would a retailer continue to use all that shelf space for Nintendo when Nintendo themselves are cheaper on their own storefront? Retailers could use that for other (non-gaming) stuff that nets them higher margins. Retailers would sell less and have decreasing margins because people would rather get them digitally cheaper, bypassing the retailer entirely. Nintendo would lose more from not having enough shelf space for their physical copies (because more physical copies are sold than digital) than gaining from having a cheaper (or rather, less expensive) digital storefront.
(And with retailers, I mean the generalists like Amazon or MediaMarkt/Saturn, not the specifically gaming-oriented retailers, because those are a dying breed.)
executor
Member
You're right, I was thinking in an estabilished work situation and probably similar to mine (so biased), so my bad, you're totally right, like I said in the rest if my message it seems to me that part of the market is targeting 1% of population that can afford it... and they're all targeting the same...
RetroGamingUK
Member
Looking at GPU prices, no thanks.
As for PC handhelds, expensive, bulky and poor performing.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Exactly, so Im not gonna line their greedy pockets!
Because the default state is that of perpetual revenue growth. You always need to push further, and Nintendo despite funny and awkward Japanese dudes knows that it can milk their fans however they want. This is early-adopter pricing aka Nintendo faithful. They will pay all of that and more to get yet another iteration of Mario Kart. That's also why Nintendo will never, ever release their games on PC, they know the house will crumble then.
Killer8
Member
What you're seeing is gaming buckling under the economic pressures every other industry faces. Gaming has been remarkably resistant to inflation. Even at $80 you're really paying as much as you always have:
That chart is the inversion of the Big Mac index. A Big Mac cost about $0.75 in 1977 and is now $5.99.
And we're supposed to be truly shocked and appalled that the same is slowly happening to gaming? Budgets get higher every generation. We're already reaching peak saturation in terms of unit sales. Gaming is already monetized out the ass with season passes, loot boxes, microtransactions etc etc.
Something has to give and it's evident that is going to be the software price. I'll refer back to an old post:
"But real wages aren't keeping up with inflation!"
Complain about your shitty wages then. Try to organize in the workplace and improve your lot in life. Recognize that you're being absolutely fucking bent over and shafted by the rich. But then a lot of people on this forum don't like to hear that...
That chart is the inversion of the Big Mac index. A Big Mac cost about $0.75 in 1977 and is now $5.99.
And we're supposed to be truly shocked and appalled that the same is slowly happening to gaming? Budgets get higher every generation. We're already reaching peak saturation in terms of unit sales. Gaming is already monetized out the ass with season passes, loot boxes, microtransactions etc etc.
Something has to give and it's evident that is going to be the software price. I'll refer back to an old post:
"But real wages aren't keeping up with inflation!"
Complain about your shitty wages then. Try to organize in the workplace and improve your lot in life. Recognize that you're being absolutely fucking bent over and shafted by the rich. But then a lot of people on this forum don't like to hear that...
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Cyberpunkd
Member
True, the probalem with that is the 1% has way better ways to spend that money - travel, sports, art, music. This is what is valued in these circles, despite incredible growth videogames remain poor man's pastime.
Dr.Morris79
Member
I wouldnt worry. I was priced out of Football about thirty years ago..
It happens.
It happens.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Nintendo's strategy was to save money by using older silicon. But that doesn't save much money anymore.
I would argue that for those who want it, Switch 2 is still good value for what you are getting. Mostly because there really is no cheaper alternative.
I would argue that for those who want it, Switch 2 is still good value for what you are getting. Mostly because there really is no cheaper alternative.
Sanepar
Member
Games consumers don't want to play, so what is the point? People want nintendo games, next spiderman, next gow.
There is a reason they put day one releases on gamepass their game sales were bad besides forza horizon, halo and gears.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
'Xbox - No Games'? Wel......lot more than the PS5: Indiana Jones. Flight Sim, Avowed, South of Midnight, Stalker 2 (and Xbox multiplatform games like COD, Doom Dark Ages). Then upcoming games like Outer Worlds 2. More will be announced for the fall.Go to PC. 1000 dollar GPUs.
Go to Switch (2). 80 dollar games.
Go to PS5. 700 dollar consoles
Go to Xbox..... No games.
Are we fucked?
So....what does Sony have this year?................crickets
Quit sucking on your Sony binky and get your facts straight!
dragonyeuw
Member
Yes,exactly what I'm saying but you expanded with more finesse. On a personal level its disappointing because I've been casually collecting Switch and was looking forward to continuing that with SW2, but the prices have dampened any enthusiasm ( and even with what was shown, the only thing I'd buy if I was in at launch was the $500 bundle, but I don't want Mario Kart digital and paying $90 for a physical copy isn't remotely a consideration). And even then, I probably wouldn't buy anything else till Metroid Prime 4 so I'd mostly be working through my backlog. Donkey Kong looks good but not paying $70 for it, and I buy third parties on Steam or PS5.
But the way they've positioned pricing here (and with how they keep MSRP), my purchases would be few and far between and limited to first party, because third party I buy on Steam and/or PS5. Hell, I don't really buy games nowadays until they're well discounted and I more or less made an exception for Nintendo because I knew barring the odd 30% off, their games were always going to be $60 so little point in waiting( and they have good resell value). But $80/90? I just can't get with that. They'll manage to hook millions obviously( to what degree I don't know), but I feel like they've lost some people wanting to upgrade from Switch 1. I'm really interested to see how parents respond to this, they may come to the conclusion little Timmy is just fine with the current Switch as long as he can play Fortnite and Minecraft on it, for the time being at least.
executor
Member
In tech-related job (that are usually paid very well) VG are highly regarded...but that is probably not 1% but maybe 5%, anyway surely not poor man's, but also in that I'm seeing people that are thinking if it's worth buying the switch2 or not and debating about the new prices that companies are pushing... if that is the journey that VG companies are into I can see more and more crashes along the road...
Cyberpunkd
Member
At an entry level of a dev wearing Patagonia - sure. As a manager at IBM - no way.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Who cares about inflation when their profits are higher than ever before?What you're seeing is gaming buckling under the economic pressures every other industry faces. Gaming has been remarkably resistant to inflation. Even at $80 you're really paying as much as you always have:
That chart is the inversion of the Big Mac index. A Big Mac cost about $0.75 in 1977 and is now $5.99.
And we're supposed to be truly shocked and appalled that the same is slowly happening to gaming? Budgets get higher every generation. We're already reaching peak saturation in terms of unit sales. Gaming is already monetized out the ass with season passes, loot boxes, microtransactions etc etc.
Something has to give and it's evident that is going to be the software price. I'll refer back to an old post:
"But real wages aren't keeping up with inflation!"
Complain about your shitty wages then. Try to organize in the workplace and improve your lot in life. Recognize that you're being absolutely fucking bent over and shafted by the rich. But then a lot of people on this forum don't like to hear that...
What does that even have to do with inflation
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
That sounds like a you problem. Millions of people don't have this issue.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Nintendo knows that some people will pay these prices, so they're going to capture the revenue from people who will. We all know that there are some people who will pay the asking price at launch, and some would pay more. If sales disappoint they'll cut the price like they did with the 3DS. If the price puts you off then it's ok to wait and see if it comes down.
Higher game and console prices are coming no matter what. We should all be expecting at least $80 when the next PlayStation and Xbox (if there is one) drop if it doesn't happen before then. I believe that the next generation of consoles will launch with base prices at least $50 more than current gen MSRP to see how many people will pay it. Scalpers have proven that a good chunk of folks will pay more to get stuff first so it was only a matter of time before the corporations decided to capture the money themselves.
Higher game and console prices are coming no matter what. We should all be expecting at least $80 when the next PlayStation and Xbox (if there is one) drop if it doesn't happen before then. I believe that the next generation of consoles will launch with base prices at least $50 more than current gen MSRP to see how many people will pay it. Scalpers have proven that a good chunk of folks will pay more to get stuff first so it was only a matter of time before the corporations decided to capture the money themselves.
Porcile
Member
The release of the Switch and the games that followed in the following couple years were clearly the last bastion of a style of game that was born in the PS1/N64 era and killed arcade style games. Now a new kind of game industry has killed that style game too. The hunter became the hunted. Major games have become either luxury products or a service. The majority of people here are still of the old school mindset but that era is now over as Nintendo was somewhat of a holdout. It's not much that we are being priced out but rather the perceived value of what a game is has clearly evolved. Compare Mario Kart 8 on Wii U to Mario Kart World (fairly straightforward kart racer Vs open world racing) Compare Demon's Souls on PS3 to Elden Ring or Duskblood now (straightforward single player game Vs massive open world now with multiplayer elements.) Compare how Kirby Air Riders was revealed to how Kirby Air Ride was received and handled back on the GameCube (big expensive reveal vs completely obscure and niche title.) It's really over as far traditional" gaming goes.
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executor
Member
Do not know about IBM but I know many people that are at high levels inside big companies (in EU) that do play games daily and are anyway debating about the price of VG. Maybe it's because a childhood memory ? For example when I was a child a NES costed really too much and a single game costed the equivalent of 100-120 EUR that was huge and a blocker for many (that's why for example here in Italy C64 and Amiga where everywhere, thanks to piracy....) the fact that we're getting back to those prices after literally 20 years of reasonable prices for VG could have an impact on anything that is a modern business and will probably switch people to PCs... underpowered PCs considering the prices...
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Fucking delusional eating that Microsoft slop. You realise it's all multi platform?
And the few exclusives there are, are all way better on ps5.
executor
Member
It this that these graphs truly shows what is happening... and I'm curious to see how much it's possible to stretch people psychology of prices with that... cars are already not selling.....What you're seeing is gaming buckling under the economic pressures every other industry faces. Gaming has been remarkably resistant to inflation. Even at $80 you're really paying as much as you always have:
That chart is the inversion of the Big Mac index. A Big Mac cost about $0.75 in 1977 and is now $5.99.
And we're supposed to be truly shocked and appalled that the same is slowly happening to gaming? Budgets get higher every generation. We're already reaching peak saturation in terms of unit sales. Gaming is already monetized out the ass with season passes, loot boxes, microtransactions etc etc.
Something has to give and it's evident that is going to be the software price. I'll refer back to an old post:
"But real wages aren't keeping up with inflation!"
Complain about your shitty wages then. Try to organize in the workplace and improve your lot in life. Recognize that you're being absolutely fucking bent over and shafted by the rich. But then a lot of people on this forum don't like to hear that...
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Industry needs a huge crash
Generic
Member
"Stop being poor", the post.What you're seeing is gaming buckling under the economic pressures every other industry faces. Gaming has been remarkably resistant to inflation. Even at $80 you're really paying as much as you always have:
That chart is the inversion of the Big Mac index. A Big Mac cost about $0.75 in 1977 and is now $5.99.
And we're supposed to be truly shocked and appalled that the same is slowly happening to gaming? Budgets get higher every generation. We're already reaching peak saturation in terms of unit sales. Gaming is already monetized out the ass with season passes, loot boxes, microtransactions etc etc.
Something has to give and it's evident that is going to be the software price. I'll refer back to an old post:
"But real wages aren't keeping up with inflation!"
Complain about your shitty wages then. Try to organize in the workplace and improve your lot in life. Recognize that you're being absolutely fucking bent over and shafted by the rich. But then a lot of people on this forum don't like to hear that...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Laptop and Desktop's are also about to get even more expensive.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
This includes prices and not just wages you know that? We wouldn't need wage increases if price drops didn't go extinct
ElFenomeno
Member
In Czech Republic, Mario Kart is 2400 czk.
Thats 96 euros boys.
Thats 96 euros boys.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I feel like I'm getting priced out of how much I'm willing to pay for their games specifically.
They're largely just iterations of previous games. They don't have big budgets from voice acting or mocap or anything like that.
Paying $80-90 for basically Mariokart 8 again but with free roam and a knock out mode doesn't sound that enticing to me.
And since I know their games basically never drop much in price, it makes me want to skip the console altogether.
They're largely just iterations of previous games. They don't have big budgets from voice acting or mocap or anything like that.
Paying $80-90 for basically Mariokart 8 again but with free roam and a knock out mode doesn't sound that enticing to me.
And since I know their games basically never drop much in price, it makes me want to skip the console altogether.
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Celcius
°Temp. member
Ouch, by the time RTX 5090's are readily available in stores then they're going to cost the price of used cars
Thebonehead
Gold Member
OnlyFans?
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
mayham2199
Member
Seriously waiting these days is more about the extra\better overall experience for me than it even is the money. Some games add so much extra free content after release which to me is better to have all at once.
You're kidding right? Excluding the era where pirate bay reigned supreme, it's never been cheaper to be a gamer. Regular heavy sales, but more importantly the subscription services are insane value. Growing up you would be lucky to get one or two games at Christmas, that would probably need to last through to your birthday. With inflation, even new games are cheaper than they were in the 80s/90s, and many are far far larger. Games back then were very short but made to last a long time by insane difficulty. Now for the price of one and half new releases you can get a years sub to thousands of games. The consoles also haven't increased in line with inflation. Any notion that gaming is more expensive now is just wildly divorced from reality.
Shifty1897
Member
General Surgeon and Senior Cloud Engineer, but if we could convince people to give us the same amount of money to watch us bone on OF, we're in agreement that sounds a lot easier and less stressful than what we're currently doing.
_Ex_
Member
I remember buying Gargoyle's Quest GB in 1990 for $30 off a Sears shelf, in today's money, calculating for inflation, that's $75.00.
I remember buying Sword of Sodan Genesis in 1993 for $65 off a Toys R Us shelf, in today's money, calculating for inflation, that's $145.00.
I remember buying Final Fantasy III SNES in 1994 for $74.00 off a Walmart shelf. In today's money, calculating for inflation, that's $161.00.
My point is this hobby has traditionally been expensive, it just got less expensive for a stretch due to the demographic massively expanding (mainly thanks to Sony's PS1/PS2 days) and sales volume making up for instance sales. Now the economy is causing that methodology to erode.
Gaming can be an inexpensive, or expensive hobby, depending on what you are playing, and how you are playing it. If you want to be a modern console gamer playing brand new AAA/1st Party Nintendo games as soon as they release, well that is the most expensive way. As a console gamer, if you don't mind waiting a bit game for prices to drop, can stand to buy used games/hardware, and keep an eye out for sales, you can save considerable money and still enjoy the hobby. As a PC gamer if you can't figure out how to do that inexpensively you don't deserve to be a PC gamer.
I remember buying Sword of Sodan Genesis in 1993 for $65 off a Toys R Us shelf, in today's money, calculating for inflation, that's $145.00.
I remember buying Final Fantasy III SNES in 1994 for $74.00 off a Walmart shelf. In today's money, calculating for inflation, that's $161.00.
My point is this hobby has traditionally been expensive, it just got less expensive for a stretch due to the demographic massively expanding (mainly thanks to Sony's PS1/PS2 days) and sales volume making up for instance sales. Now the economy is causing that methodology to erode.
Gaming can be an inexpensive, or expensive hobby, depending on what you are playing, and how you are playing it. If you want to be a modern console gamer playing brand new AAA/1st Party Nintendo games as soon as they release, well that is the most expensive way. As a console gamer, if you don't mind waiting a bit game for prices to drop, can stand to buy used games/hardware, and keep an eye out for sales, you can save considerable money and still enjoy the hobby. As a PC gamer if you can't figure out how to do that inexpensively you don't deserve to be a PC gamer.
dorkimoe
Gold Member
pc is not the same as a console and you know it.
TaroYamada
Member
Buy a Steam Deck, I don't even intend to really upgrade my desktop anymore. I even use it on my TV depending on the game. It's very affordable for what it is, and you can get a refurb if you need to save a bit. Gaming is very affordable on PC and Xbox imo.
Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
I blame gpu prices to try to price me out of pc gaming but when I see a brand new console at 700$ CAD (bundled with a game) that allows me to play games I can't play anywhere else...my wallet sighs in relief.
BossLackey
Gold Member
Gaming is still cheap. You don't have to have everything and the best of everything at once.utter nonsense.
As long as good indies keep releasing on Steam, I could theoretically coast on my current hardware for the next decade. Easily.
I won't, but I could.
Not to mention, even with a 3080Ti, I'm still able to max out most games and get at least 60fps @ 1440. That probably won't change much over the next few years (terrible optimization not withstanding).
X8XFoundries
Neo Member
So Here's The DealGo to PC. 1000 dollar GPUs.
Go to Switch (2). 80 dollar games.
Go to PS5. 700 dollar consoles
Go to Xbox..... No games.
Are we fucked?
The End-User market has effectively gotten too addicted to shiny things. Unironically, available pretty much everywhere, are PC's and game libraries that no one thinks are worth using.
Right now I am using a 2013 Mac Pro, and they built them until the end of 2018 with basically dual R9 290's, the card that they basically kept around till the 680 meme release?
Otherwise, go buy used games and rip them. If you can't rip them, get someone else rip, but make sure you have the real copy too. Xbox Recompile Project is coming along great, emulators run PS2 with ease, gamecube runs on switch, and hell even hacking a switch to have a computer isn't that hard.
I think people have begun to vastly over-estimate how much computer they actually need, and instead of organizing to make what they have robust, they fall for the scam of "Bigger number better".
I can tell you, it was only a few years ago that a 9800GT became useless in gaming. As well, people demand higher frame rates now that we don't have CRT's.
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