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[RodriGames40]

You're already on a hype train and train hasn't even been built, lol. Ok, if you think you gonna fto from basic tier RTGI (which btw not many games support 5 years into this gen) to full scale path tracing on a $500 console (from AMD nonetheless) in 3 years time then you go ahead and dream, lol.

To be fair, who said PS6 would cost 500 dollars? If anything, Sony must be feeling really bold now that they managed to sell a Pro at 700$ and that is why we are seemingly getting this much R&D effort so early into the console's development cycle.

 

[Msamy]

Mark Cerny can't beat physics and his limited budget. You will never hear him say "path tracing" leading up to PS6 launch, because he knows it ain't happening.

I just hope he could got there, Remmber we still 2 years away and tech advances fast those years, hopefully amd will upgrade their tech to easily handle path tracing by that time

 

[Edder1]

To be fair, who said PS6 would cost 500 dollars? If anything, Sony must be feeling really bold now that they managed to sell a Pro at 700$ and that is why we are seemingly getting this much R&D effort so early into the console's development cycle.

It's not good to base your argument on ifs and buts. Consoles have never launched at more than $500. And no, PS5 wasn't first to launch at 500, PS3 already did that..

 

[RodriGames40]

It's not good to base your argument on if and buts. Consoles have never launched at more than $500. And no, PS5 wasn't first to launch at 500, PS3 already did that..

These barely count as "if" and "buts". They are going to sell this at 600$ minimum before any greed even comes into play simply because of TSMC node price gouging, that's a very tangible factor.

 

[Msamy]

It's not good to base your argument on if and buts. Consoles have never launched at more than $500. And no, PS5 wasn't first to launch at 500, PS3 already did that..

True that they will take huge risks if they launch ps6 above 500-600

 

[Edder1]

the days of $500 consoles are long gone. With Xbox out of the console race, Sony might even release an $800 console and everyone will buy it on day one.

Sounds more like an opinion and not something we have any evidence for.

 

[Alex11]

It's just silly. Ghost of Tsushima has arguably aged better than any last gen AAA game because the art style is fantastic. Looking back now, even games like TLOU2 have started to look dated. I am ok with a studio prioritizing art style over pure graphic fidelity. Very few studios do that nowadays. It's one of the reasons why Nintendo games tend to age like fine wine while pretty much all other games look dated and terrible 5 years after launch

Well yeah, of course stylized games or with minimalistic art style age better, hell, even 10 -15 yrs older games look good today because of that, but that's no excuse to not push advanced stuff no matter the art style you want.

And again, even photorealistic is an art style and so it becomes subjective so you remain to look at textures, geometry, advanced lighting solutions etc., stuff you can quantify.

 

[Edder1]

These barely count as "if" and "buts". They are going to sell this at 600$ minimum before any greed even comes into play simply because of TSMC node price gouging, that's a very tangible factor.

Even if they launch it closer to $1000 you are not going to get path tracing. My guy, take from people who know it best at Nvidia, they don't even see that as possibility, and Nvidia is way ahead of AMD in this regard. You're puffing on some heavy dose of console hopium. If Mark Cerny ever says anything about path tracing on PS6 then you're free to claim victory, but it won't happen. Sorry.

 

[Msamy]

Even if they launch it closer to $1000 you are not going to get path tracing. My guy, take from people who know it best at Nvidia, they don't even see that as possibility, and Nvidia is way ahead of AMD in this regard. You're puffing on some heavy dose of console hopium. If Mark Cerny ever says anything about path tracing on PS6 then you're free to post it, but it won't happen. Sorry.

May be we will got something like lumen (which I think is different than regular ray tracing with lower cost) for path tracing, pretty sure epic will have great things for UE6

 

[RodriGames40]

Even if they launch it closer to $1000 you are not going to get path tracing. My guy, take from people who know it best at Nvidia, they don't even see that as possibility, and Nvidia is way ahead of AMD in this regard. You're puffing on some heavy dose of console hopium. If Mark Cerny ever says anything about path tracing on PS6 then you're free to post it, but it won't happen. Sorry.

It's not like we are going to be waiting for much longer, we are going to revisit this in less than two years. I think you are wildly underestimating what PS6 will end up as, just saying... I had no faith on PS5 early on due to rampant crossgen and the somewhat anemic leap in compute, but studios like Rockstar and CD Projekt are consistently proving me wrong. Full fledged RTGI with the hardware we have now is a phenomenal tease of what the future holds I'd say.

 

[Edder1]

May be we will got something like lumen (which I think is different than regular ray tracing with lower cost) for path tracing, pretty sure epic will have great things for UE6

This I agree with. I can totally see Epic making improvements to Lumen and it coming closer to path tracing while being computationally cheaper. You can be just fine without path tracing. Take Toy Story 3 for example, it used RTGI and compares extremely well to Toy Story 4 that used path tracing. RTGI you getting now is of lower quality with a single bounce (also the bounce is limited by algorithm to save performance), on PS6 it will be be of much higher quality.

 

[SlimySnake]

Sounds more like an opinion and not something we have any evidence for.

Xbox just raised the price of the XSX to $600 five years into the gen. Sony has increased the price to $550 everywhere except for the U.S. And those are consoles built on 5 year old tech.

But yes, its an opinion. i guess we will find out.

And even if its $700-800, it could just be because they want to max out profit and they stick with a BOM of $500 with a tiny chip and then make a $200-300 profit like Apple does with their phones. I've heard that they think they are Apple now. And I agree, for $500 BOM you are not getting path tracing.

 

[Edder1]

Xbox just raised the price of the XSX to $600 five years into the gen. Sony has increased the price to $550 everywhere except for the U.S. And those are consoles built on 5 year old tech.

But yes, its an opinion. i guess we will find out.

And even if its $700-800, it could just be because they want to max out profit and they stick with a BOM of $500 with a tiny chip and then make a $200-300 profit like Apple does with their phones. I've heard that they think they are Apple now. And I agree, for $500 BOM you are not getting path tracing.

Make it $1000 and you still won't get psth tracing. The only psth tracing you may get will be with PS4/PS5 remasters.

 

[Edder1]

SlimySnake Wait, I may be wrong. If Sony continues with their strategy then PS5 games will basically be PS5 games tech wise, so you may still get path tracing with those, lol.

 

[SlimySnake]

SlimySnake Wait, I may be wrong. If Sony continues with their strategy then PS5 games will basically be PS5 games tech wise, so you may still get path tracing with those, lol.

lol i was about to say. The cross gen period will be even longer than it was this gen so from 2028-2032 we will be getting path traced PS5 games on the PS6.

 

[RodriGames40]

lol i was about to say. The cross gen period will be even longer than it was this gen so from 2028-2032 we will be getting path traced PS5 games on the PS6.

...You know, that does put into question somehow. I don't think we have seen a "peak" PS5 game yet for obvious reasons, especially now that UE5 has gotten several times faster... Would we be okay with that, with theoretically perfect lightning added up?

 

[Edder1]

lol i was about to say. The cross gen period will be even longer than it was this gen so from 2028-2032 we will be getting path traced PS5 games on the PS6.

That's funny and yet very depressing. Basically we won't be getting PS6 tier games technology wise until around mid 2030s.

 

[vpance]

lol i was about to say. The cross gen period will be even longer than it was this gen so from 2028-2032 we will be getting path traced PS5 games on the PS6.

That would be terrible.

I hope this gen was just an anomaly, and I think it will be. Games like GTA6 and Witcher 4 are going to raise the bar soon enough. There's going to be no choice but to play catch up or just move to UE5.

 

[kevboard]

That would be terrible.
I hope this gen was just an anomaly

this gen was the start of the iterative generational improvements.
we have now settled into systems run by AMD x64 CPUs and AMD GPUs. all of them supporting all of or most of the Direct X12 feature set.

and Direct X is a very good indicator of how much the industry as slowed down. Direct X12 was launched in 2015... 10 years ago. it got its first major update (adding raytracing support) in 2018, that's 7 years ago.
this shows just how slow new hardware features are added and adopted by the industry, as Direct X is the main reference point here.

a slowed down industry means extremely easy cross-gen development and therefore extremely extended cross-gen periods.

 

[Edder1]

this gen was the start of the iterative generational improvements.
we have now settled into systems run by AMD x64 CPUs and AMD GPUs. all of them supporting all of or most of the Direct X12 feature set.

and Direct X is a very good indicator of how much the industry as slowed down. Direct X12 was launched in 2015... 10 years ago. it got its first major update (adding raytracing support) in 2018, that's 7 years ago.
this shows just how slow new hardware features are added and adopted by the industry, as Direct X is the main reference point here.

a slowed down industry means extremely easy cross-gen development and therefore extremely extended cross-gen periods.

Yeah. Given the fact that most studios will only be releasing proper current gen games towards the end of this gen it's hard to see them then upgrade again for next gen. It's too expensive and won't make sense for publishers. Expecting next gen cross gen period to be anything less than 5-6 years is to be unrealistic and naive.

What we may see though is few studios who were ahead of the curve this gen make a jump to new tech, but I doubt there will be many of these studios.

 

[March Climber]

I just need RT/PT to become a standard across the industry, at 60fps, and I'll reach complete video game satisfaction.

After that I can retire from following this thread.

 

[kevboard]

Yeah. Given the fact that most studios will only be releasing proper current gen games towards the end of this gen it's hard to see them then upgrade again for next gen. It's too expensive and won't make sense for publishers. Expecting next gen cross gen period to be anything less than 5-6 years is to be unrealistic and naive.

I bet it won't even be a real "cross gen period". I think the new normal for consoles will be like it is on PC... will there be games that happen to not be on PS5? sure, but it will be a tiny amount. the PS6 compared to the PS5 will basically be the same as the RTX5000 series compared to the RTX2000 series. the only games that won't work on PS5 are the ones where the devs can't be bothered to optimise for lower end hardware, or at least not enough for a decent port.

 

[vpance]

this gen was the start of the iterative generational improvements.
we have now settled into systems run by AMD x64 CPUs and AMD GPUs. all of them supporting all of or most of the Direct X12 feature set.

and Direct X is a very good indicator of how much the industry as slowed down. Direct X12 was launched in 2015... 10 years ago. it got its first major update (adding raytracing support) in 2018, that's 7 years ago.
this shows just how slow new hardware features are added and adopted by the industry, as Direct X is the main reference point here.

a slowed down industry means extremely easy cross-gen development and therefore extremely extended cross-gen periods.

I guess it depends how those cross gen games will be handled. If games are trending to use RTGI and VG anyways it's not necessarily going to be that bad a prospect. Like UE5 tier 1440p medium quality on PS5 and close to 4K high quality on PS6.

But if it's just turning on RT shadows or something on current level PS5 games that would be shit.

 

[kevboard]

I guess it depends how those cross gen games will be handled. If games are trending to use RTGI and VG anyways it's not necessarily going to be that bad a prospect. Like UE5 tier 1440p medium quality on PS5 and close to 4K high quality on PS6.

But if it's just turning on RT shadows or something on current level PS5 games that would be shit.

raytracing and object density are the only 2 avenues that can realistically be improved compared to current gen anyway imo. there's nowhere else to go otherwise.
we are already starting to see basically CGI quality assets being used due to games using an infinite LOD system like nanite, and rasterised lighting has reached its limit.

 

[vpance]

raytracing and object density are the only 2 avenues that can realistically be improved compared to current gen anyway imo. there's nowhere else to go otherwise.
we are already starting to see basically CGI quality assets being used due to games using an infinite LOD system like nanite, and rasterised lighting has reached its limit.

Exactly, those are 2 of the last big things that make a significant visual difference. Dynamic or destructible worlds and smarter AI would be the next big hurdle.

That's why I can't be too down on next gen. I'll be good with just those 2 upgrades for a few years.

 

[Edder1]

I bet it won't even be a real "cross gen period". I think the new normal for consoles will be like it is on PC... will there be games that happen to not be on PS5? sure, but it will be a tiny amount. the PS6 compared to the PS5 will basically be the same as the RTX5000 series compared to the RTX2000 series. the only games that won't work on PS5 are the ones where the devs can't be bothered to optimise for lower end hardware, or at least not enough for a decent port.

Yep. People will be mainly upgrading because they can play games at 4K120 on a new consoles, but they will still be playing same games. Higher resolution and higher framerate will be the reason to upgrade, not exclusive games. There will be a cutoff point at some stage though.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Well yeah, of course stylized games or with minimalistic art style age better, hell, even 10 -15 yrs older games look good today because of that, but that's no excuse to not push advanced stuff no matter the art style you want.

And again, even photorealistic is an art style and so it becomes subjective so you remain to look at textures, geometry, advanced lighting solutions etc., stuff you can quantify.

I just think the hate is too much. Ghost of Yotei will still be one of the most gorgeous games of this generation because of its art style. I recently was playing GOT, and that game is more pleasing on the eye than the vast majority of AAA games released this generation.
I am bummed out that Yotei isnt pushing graphic fidelity, but so few AAA games have a distinct art style that carries the game like that. So, I guess I am ok with an average graphics game as long as resources are used to bolster an amazing art style

 

[Edder1]

I just think the hate is too much. Ghost of Yotei will still be one of the most gorgeous games of this generation because of its art style. I recently was playing GOT, and that game is more pleasing on the eye than the vast majority of AAA games released this generation.
I am bummed out that Yotei isnt pushing graphic fidelity, but so few AAA games have a distinct art style that carries the game like that. So, I guess I am ok with an average graphics game as long as resources are used to bolster an amazing art style

Art style discussion is silly if it's powered by weak tech in a tech focused thread. I mean not much changed since last game so how is Yotei any relevant in graphical discussion a whole generation later? All the art style praise was already given to Ghost 1, so really it's just an excuse at this point to excuse poor graphics.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Reminder, because not everyone will see the other thread.
THIS is how first got looks. my screenshots from this year playing dc on pro.
Looks great but Yoteil is clearly WAY better looking technically. Only similar in style

and this is ps5 directors cut... now compare yotei to ps4 version...

...

And this is YOTEI

Nope ...still not seeing it. Especially considering Yotei shots from a curated trailer and Tsushima from raw gameplay.

Yotei is terrible....that bottom image is the ONLY impressive clip from the entire trailer and don't forget the trailer was "a mix of gameplay and in-engine footage"

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Question of priorities, budget, visual goal.

Companies are making games to sell in the market, and graphics don't always sell. AC Shadows and SW Outlaws may look good, but nobody cares about them.
Sales is the real competition.

Besides, not everything necessarily comes down to visual fidelity. The game can have more detail, better animation, greater draw distance, more enemies on screen, better AI. The studio can still play it safe and take advantage of the hardware to achieve better performance and higher resolution.

This is a graphics fidelity thread.

Nah, this would apply when comparing PS4 to PS5 games. The GPU difference between the PS3 (0.2 tflops) and PS5 (10.23 tflops) is literally 50x before the architectural improvements which would put it to 80-100x.

There is no excuse for them looking like a linear game that was running on a 0.2 tflops GPU.

Exactly.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Yotei announcement

Yesterday gameplay

LOL,

Fuck me

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I don't care for that. ds2 don't have "next gen features" too and it looks great.
Just because UE5 popularized some shit, doesn't mean it's good and makes any sense for everyone to copy that.
And thank god it's not and some devs are still unique.

Except it doesn't look way better...with or without next gen features. It barely looks better that is why people are up in arms.

 

[adamsapple]

your point?
1st screenshot is cherry picked badly lit.
2 and 3 looks way better in goy....

They're from the same video you posted your cherry picked screens from earlier on the same page.

 

[nicoGec]

So what's the consensus about the current console graphics king? Considering resolution/image quality and fps of course.

Death Stranding 2 on PS5 Pro?

 

[Edder1]

Yotei announcement

Yesterday gameplay

LOL,

RTGI on vs RTGI off, lol. There is no PS4 version, why such downgrade? Unless it was fake just for trailer.

 

[Edder1]

So what's the consensus about the current console graphics king? Considering resolution/image quality and fps of course.

Death Stranding 2 on PS5 Pro?

Lol. My guy, if you are here to get executed then you came with the right comment.

 

[Balducci30]

If intergalactic ends up looking cross gen I'm going to be pissed

 

[nicoGec]

Lol. My guy, if you are here to get executed then you came with the right comment.

I have a PS5 Pro and a LG G4

My functional eyes say that it's that or AC Shadows in the 40 fps mode.
Demons souls and Ratchet are still impressive as hell.
AW2 has ok image quality.

Haven't played Indiana Jones

I don't know man

 

[Edder1]

I have a PS5 Pro and a LG G4

My functional eyes say that it's that or AC Shadows in the 40 fps mode.
Demons souls and Ratchet are still impressive as hell.
AW2 has ok image quality.

Haven't played Indiana Jones

I don't know man

Most people here including me don't rate DS2 that highly. There's just way too much last gen shenanigans going on in that game to be called a graphical powerhouse, although it has its moments, especially in cutscenes.

 

[SlimySnake]

If intergalactic ends up looking cross gen I'm going to be pissed

It already does.

 

[Msamy]

I have a PS5 Pro and a LG G4

My functional eyes say that it's that or AC Shadows in the 40 fps mode.
Demons souls and Ratchet are still impressive as hell.
AW2 has ok image quality.

Haven't played Indiana Jones

I don't know man

Ac shadows,, Avatar, Hellblade 2, wukong, other AA UE5 titles and HFW all look better than ds2

 

[Msamy]

It already does.

I still have have hope that this scene doesn't represent the final game

 

[Edder1]

It already does.

Like seriously, what the heck is up with that background? I don't mean to drop another PS3 hyperbole because some people get mentally unwell when that happens, but that background is just disgusting. Is it gonna be a feature where you connect your PS2 to PS5 ro render the background? Oh well, there goes the hyperbole.

 

[metareferential]

I still have have hope that this scene doesn't represent the final game

The quote could mean anything. It could mean baked lighting, it could mean dynamic, RTGI, no one knows.

Everything we've seen so far (which is very little) didn't impress.

We'll see. Hopefully it doesn't end up looking like TLoU2 with a bit of next-gen.

 

[Msamy]

The quote could mean anything. It could mean baked lighting, it could mean dynamic, RTGI, no one knows.

Everything we've seen so far (which is very little) didn't impress.

We'll see. Hopefully it doesn't end up looking like TLoU2 with a bit of next-gen.

Agree with you, but this game is my last hope on sony this gen

 

[March Climber]

I still have have hope that this scene doesn't represent the final game

I wonder if it's going to be similar to The Medium:

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Is it gonna be a feature where you connect your PS2 to PS5 ro render the background?

Lol

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Yotei should look CGI like with PS5's power, the art direction should be exactly the same with much higher quality everything. Thats my issue.

 

[March Climber]

Yotei should look CGI like with PS5's power, the art direction should be exactly the same with much higher quality everything. Thats my issue.

There are times where it does. I think (for this thread) the inconsistency of that might bother you and others here more.

 

[BlownUpRich]

This tweet reminded me of you

Are we really gonna get gaslit into thinking these aren't good showcases of PS5 titles & we're supposed to think that latest Mafia gameplay looks "next-gen" because it has more geometry is very few select objects & places than DS2? Or is it because the expectations around DS2 is to blow Mafia away but the reality isn't that so we have to downplay its graphical achievements to an egregious level?

Yotei & DS2 look way better than Mafia in almost every way & boast a much better, more comprehensive artistry than the whole Mafia series.